• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:22
CEST 04:22
KST 11:22
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins Maestros of the Game 213ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7
Community News
MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon315.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes36Weekly Cups (June 22-28): Zergs thrive in new patch5[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)99
StarCraft 2
General
Server Blocker 5.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes Serral wins Maestros of the Game 2 Weekly Cups (June 22-28): Zergs thrive in new patch MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon
Tourneys
HomeStory Cup 29 Vespene Cup #1 — $300+ USD, July 10 Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion FlaShFTW vs A.Alm Grudge Match Event Farewell Beloved Starcraft (Youtube Videos) BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 The Casual Games of the Week Thread [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Grand Finals
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Summer Games Done Quick 2026! ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Power Rank Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Men's Fashion Thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard? Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Listen To The Coaches!
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 24946 users

Am I giving good advice?

Blogs > chameleonia
Post a Reply
Chameleon
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States604 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-08 07:26:02
December 08 2009 07:25 GMT
#1
So I'm trying to help a friend work on his tvp. The first couple of times i played a few games with him I just ran over him because he was super passive (no harass, slow expos etc). I had him play a game w/ a friend of mine (rep attached) and was trying to point some stuff out to him as the game went along.

Thing is, I'm only c-, maybe c if I really massgamed, and don't really know tvp from the t perspective that well, so i wanted to share this rep of me giving advice to see if the stuff i was telling him was good advice in the eyes of people who actually know what they are talking about.

I know I missed some big things like talking about when to add facs (and how many)and when how to prepare/defend recall but the main thing to me for this game was to try to get him to harass/push more so I guess i wasnt thinking about that stuff. Anyway, any comments/suggestions you guys have would be appreciated.
[image loading]


*
TL's #1 Horang2 fan
VorcePA
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States1102 Posts
December 08 2009 07:58 GMT
#2
Anything you can't explain to him, build orders from liquipedia and relevant progaming VODs will. If he hasn't already memorized a build, he should start now. A simple 1Fac FE includes the times to add facs as well as when and how to harass.
Shitposting
Glaucus
Profile Joined June 2009
479 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-08 10:25:03
December 08 2009 08:57 GMT
#3
If opponent goes DTs then you need to control your choke. Build a turret on top of your cluff and one directly beneath it and float your ebay on top of it so P can't see or focus fire it. It's really easy to do. You build your ebay near your cliff anyway and once it finish have an SCV ready to build a turret and build it immediately. Then lift ebay and move it to hide the turret. You need to build a second one as well so you have vision if P tries to run DTs into your mineral line. Siege a tank on the high ground. But don't siege those on the low ground vs DTs.
If you see DT tech early you can skip siege, add 2nd fact a bit earlier and after like 2 or 3 siege tanks make vultures. Siege tanks are so bad vs DTs even if you can see them.

Then a good T needs 6 fact 2 shop off 2 base. Once you have your econ going you should just add all those facts. Just add them. And then macro. No more than 2 shops. You really need the vultures.

I don't like the dropship play on the main at this level of play. Macro rules. But it helps a lot if P takes another main with a pylon wall or if he takes the island.

After you get enough tanks to stop any allin, which is maybe 4 in this game, but usually more like 6, you need to get vultures with mines and speed and mine up all expo locations. This is essential. And keep them around to kill any probes. In this game T did dropship harass and killed some probes. But no expo was delayed. And with macro being bad at this level it's irrelevant if P doesn't have enough probes.
But don't build too many vultures though. You want to build almost pure tanks until you start to slow push. And if your vultures find out P has done some 1 or 2 gate 3 base play you can try to move out with 8 tanks and kill him before added gates start producing and leg speed is done. But this is very very risky. And it is better vs the mineral only because you can actually take out that base with your push.
So after you have 2 facts with 2 shops and after you got your speed mine vultures out to mine up expo locations, start to add more factories. Up to 6 usually but maybe up to 7 or even 8 for this guy. And then when you get a third, add 2 more. Or 3 if your macro is still off. Adding more and more factories if your macro is bad doesn't really work though. You just need to go back and add units and sacrifice micro. And speed up everything you do.
So yeah you don't really need to stop production to add factories. Minerals will build up if you are 2 base 2 fact, naturally. But some people do add 4 facts at the same time by stopping production. I don't really see a point in doing so on this level of play.

Then with these positions T is best off with a slow push. Push slow and with a lot of turrets, blocking depots and mines. Don't ever put your tanks on your mines. Also don't put mines right next to your tanks. Be ready for a counter. You can totally crush a counter if you have 4 tanks on your high ground with a lot of mines in front of your choke. You really need to mine stuff up and remine stuff after they get killed. If you don't P will still run T over. If you do with these positions you can take the top left expo and cut off the protoss main from the rest of the map so he has to build gateways in his 3rd. You can take out the wall with just a few units but you need an SCV that builds an ebay there for vision. You also need some vultures there. P will build gateways there and run a zealot or DT into your 2 tanks. But best is to just drop some units inside that base.
Only try to win if the P is bad. If you try to take out his natural you may end up losing. If P suicides his army, unsiege after you macro immediately. P will have no units so kill his natural.

Once you slow push you need to reset rally points every time. Use F-keys. Macro vultures in groups of 2 since they build so fast.

Also the T in this game build way too many supply depots. You want to have two SCVs that keep building depots so you stay ahead. But this guy had 3 building and kept building even when he was like 80/130.

Not so sure about trying to do a timing push before Arbiter stasis at this level. He tried and it didn't work. Best way to counter Arbiters is to 'just' EMP them. Build turrets at places where you have no vision to defend against a recall. Also mine up stuff and build more turrets. It's pretty basic. Once you get recalled you do have to unsiege tanks and go back. Then P will break your slow push. You somehow have to instantly unsiege the minimum amount of tanks.

Do get +3 weapons. And in the case of a starport get it asap.

Python cross positions needs to be played way differently. There you try dropship play into 3base fast upgrades.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
Crank Gathers S4: Qualifiers
CranKy Ducklings SOOP279
CranKy Ducklings109
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 186
RuFF_SC2 140
ProTech109
SpeCial 15
StarCraft: Brood War
NaDa 41
Bale 27
Dota 2
LuMiX1
League of Legends
Doublelift5093
JimRising 519
Counter-Strike
summit1g9901
C9.Mang0408
taco 351
Other Games
WinterStarcraft225
ViBE202
Maynarde139
UpATreeSC46
Mew2King43
JuggernautJason13
minikerr7
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream160
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt263
• Jankos117
Upcoming Events
HomeStory Cup
8h 38m
Replay Cast
21h 38m
HomeStory Cup
1d 8h
OSC
1d 10h
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
CrankTV Team League
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S3: W1
Douyu Cup 2026
Murky Cup 2026

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
SCTL 2026 Spring
HSC XXIX
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
Escore Tournament S3: W2
ASL Season 22:Wild Card Qualifier
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Eternal Conflict S2 E2
Heroes Pulsing #3
Eternal Conflict S2 E1
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.