• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:41
CEST 07:41
KST 14:41
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon100Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?179Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)9
StarCraft 2
General
SC4ALL II: StarCraft 2 Player Announcement 8/8 Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser Yamato Cup Series StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Fall KSL Week #92
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 542 The Ascended Mutation # 541 Binary Choice
Brood War
General
Man Bnet can't even load profile now, WTF an AI researcher's take on the ladder bot Bot on ladder Syncronization issues and can't find games New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro16 Group D [BSL23] SM: Ret vs TerrOr - bo7 - Sunday 9pm CEST [ASL22] Ro16 Group C [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation Diablo IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Post Your Watch!
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Virtual Romance, Real-Life C…
TrAiDoS
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8273 users

Am I giving good advice?

Blogs > chameleonia
Post a Reply
Chameleon
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States604 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-08 07:26:02
December 08 2009 07:25 GMT
#1
So I'm trying to help a friend work on his tvp. The first couple of times i played a few games with him I just ran over him because he was super passive (no harass, slow expos etc). I had him play a game w/ a friend of mine (rep attached) and was trying to point some stuff out to him as the game went along.

Thing is, I'm only c-, maybe c if I really massgamed, and don't really know tvp from the t perspective that well, so i wanted to share this rep of me giving advice to see if the stuff i was telling him was good advice in the eyes of people who actually know what they are talking about.

I know I missed some big things like talking about when to add facs (and how many)and when how to prepare/defend recall but the main thing to me for this game was to try to get him to harass/push more so I guess i wasnt thinking about that stuff. Anyway, any comments/suggestions you guys have would be appreciated.
[image loading]


*
TL's #1 Horang2 fan
VorcePA
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States1102 Posts
December 08 2009 07:58 GMT
#2
Anything you can't explain to him, build orders from liquipedia and relevant progaming VODs will. If he hasn't already memorized a build, he should start now. A simple 1Fac FE includes the times to add facs as well as when and how to harass.
Shitposting
Glaucus
Profile Joined June 2009
479 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-08 10:25:03
December 08 2009 08:57 GMT
#3
If opponent goes DTs then you need to control your choke. Build a turret on top of your cluff and one directly beneath it and float your ebay on top of it so P can't see or focus fire it. It's really easy to do. You build your ebay near your cliff anyway and once it finish have an SCV ready to build a turret and build it immediately. Then lift ebay and move it to hide the turret. You need to build a second one as well so you have vision if P tries to run DTs into your mineral line. Siege a tank on the high ground. But don't siege those on the low ground vs DTs.
If you see DT tech early you can skip siege, add 2nd fact a bit earlier and after like 2 or 3 siege tanks make vultures. Siege tanks are so bad vs DTs even if you can see them.

Then a good T needs 6 fact 2 shop off 2 base. Once you have your econ going you should just add all those facts. Just add them. And then macro. No more than 2 shops. You really need the vultures.

I don't like the dropship play on the main at this level of play. Macro rules. But it helps a lot if P takes another main with a pylon wall or if he takes the island.

After you get enough tanks to stop any allin, which is maybe 4 in this game, but usually more like 6, you need to get vultures with mines and speed and mine up all expo locations. This is essential. And keep them around to kill any probes. In this game T did dropship harass and killed some probes. But no expo was delayed. And with macro being bad at this level it's irrelevant if P doesn't have enough probes.
But don't build too many vultures though. You want to build almost pure tanks until you start to slow push. And if your vultures find out P has done some 1 or 2 gate 3 base play you can try to move out with 8 tanks and kill him before added gates start producing and leg speed is done. But this is very very risky. And it is better vs the mineral only because you can actually take out that base with your push.
So after you have 2 facts with 2 shops and after you got your speed mine vultures out to mine up expo locations, start to add more factories. Up to 6 usually but maybe up to 7 or even 8 for this guy. And then when you get a third, add 2 more. Or 3 if your macro is still off. Adding more and more factories if your macro is bad doesn't really work though. You just need to go back and add units and sacrifice micro. And speed up everything you do.
So yeah you don't really need to stop production to add factories. Minerals will build up if you are 2 base 2 fact, naturally. But some people do add 4 facts at the same time by stopping production. I don't really see a point in doing so on this level of play.

Then with these positions T is best off with a slow push. Push slow and with a lot of turrets, blocking depots and mines. Don't ever put your tanks on your mines. Also don't put mines right next to your tanks. Be ready for a counter. You can totally crush a counter if you have 4 tanks on your high ground with a lot of mines in front of your choke. You really need to mine stuff up and remine stuff after they get killed. If you don't P will still run T over. If you do with these positions you can take the top left expo and cut off the protoss main from the rest of the map so he has to build gateways in his 3rd. You can take out the wall with just a few units but you need an SCV that builds an ebay there for vision. You also need some vultures there. P will build gateways there and run a zealot or DT into your 2 tanks. But best is to just drop some units inside that base.
Only try to win if the P is bad. If you try to take out his natural you may end up losing. If P suicides his army, unsiege after you macro immediately. P will have no units so kill his natural.

Once you slow push you need to reset rally points every time. Use F-keys. Macro vultures in groups of 2 since they build so fast.

Also the T in this game build way too many supply depots. You want to have two SCVs that keep building depots so you stay ahead. But this guy had 3 building and kept building even when he was like 80/130.

Not so sure about trying to do a timing push before Arbiter stasis at this level. He tried and it didn't work. Best way to counter Arbiters is to 'just' EMP them. Build turrets at places where you have no vision to defend against a recall. Also mine up stuff and build more turrets. It's pretty basic. Once you get recalled you do have to unsiege tanks and go back. Then P will break your slow push. You somehow have to instantly unsiege the minimum amount of tanks.

Do get +3 weapons. And in the case of a starport get it asap.

Python cross positions needs to be played way differently. There you try dropship play into 3base fast upgrades.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
ISSL Monthly #1 - Day 2
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft708
StarCraft: Brood War
Larva 301
sSak 55
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm182
Super Smash Bros
Westballz19
Other Games
summit1g11069
JimRising 610
C9.Mang0345
PiGStarcraft269
XaKoH 215
Mew2King80
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1097
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• practicex 21
• Adnapsc2 7
• Letter146
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2475
League of Legends
• Rush1246
Upcoming Events
GSL
5h 20m
AI Arena Tournament
11h 20m
Replay Cast
18h 20m
GSL
1d 5h
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
1d 9h
Spirit vs Mixu
BSL
1d 13h
Ret vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
1d 18h
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Shine vs Rush
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Light vs EffOrt
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Calamity Invitational
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.