• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 22:19
CET 04:19
KST 12:19
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners11Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation8Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7
StarCraft 2
General
[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada Craziest Micro Moments Of All Time? SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA
Tourneys
Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Tenacious Turtle Tussle RSL S3 Round of 16 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BW General Discussion Terran 1:35 12 Gas Optimization BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread EVE Corporation Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1632 users

Am I giving good advice?

Blogs > chameleonia
Post a Reply
Chameleon
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States604 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-08 07:26:02
December 08 2009 07:25 GMT
#1
So I'm trying to help a friend work on his tvp. The first couple of times i played a few games with him I just ran over him because he was super passive (no harass, slow expos etc). I had him play a game w/ a friend of mine (rep attached) and was trying to point some stuff out to him as the game went along.

Thing is, I'm only c-, maybe c if I really massgamed, and don't really know tvp from the t perspective that well, so i wanted to share this rep of me giving advice to see if the stuff i was telling him was good advice in the eyes of people who actually know what they are talking about.

I know I missed some big things like talking about when to add facs (and how many)and when how to prepare/defend recall but the main thing to me for this game was to try to get him to harass/push more so I guess i wasnt thinking about that stuff. Anyway, any comments/suggestions you guys have would be appreciated.
[image loading]


*
TL's #1 Horang2 fan
VorcePA
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States1102 Posts
December 08 2009 07:58 GMT
#2
Anything you can't explain to him, build orders from liquipedia and relevant progaming VODs will. If he hasn't already memorized a build, he should start now. A simple 1Fac FE includes the times to add facs as well as when and how to harass.
Shitposting
Glaucus
Profile Joined June 2009
479 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-08 10:25:03
December 08 2009 08:57 GMT
#3
If opponent goes DTs then you need to control your choke. Build a turret on top of your cluff and one directly beneath it and float your ebay on top of it so P can't see or focus fire it. It's really easy to do. You build your ebay near your cliff anyway and once it finish have an SCV ready to build a turret and build it immediately. Then lift ebay and move it to hide the turret. You need to build a second one as well so you have vision if P tries to run DTs into your mineral line. Siege a tank on the high ground. But don't siege those on the low ground vs DTs.
If you see DT tech early you can skip siege, add 2nd fact a bit earlier and after like 2 or 3 siege tanks make vultures. Siege tanks are so bad vs DTs even if you can see them.

Then a good T needs 6 fact 2 shop off 2 base. Once you have your econ going you should just add all those facts. Just add them. And then macro. No more than 2 shops. You really need the vultures.

I don't like the dropship play on the main at this level of play. Macro rules. But it helps a lot if P takes another main with a pylon wall or if he takes the island.

After you get enough tanks to stop any allin, which is maybe 4 in this game, but usually more like 6, you need to get vultures with mines and speed and mine up all expo locations. This is essential. And keep them around to kill any probes. In this game T did dropship harass and killed some probes. But no expo was delayed. And with macro being bad at this level it's irrelevant if P doesn't have enough probes.
But don't build too many vultures though. You want to build almost pure tanks until you start to slow push. And if your vultures find out P has done some 1 or 2 gate 3 base play you can try to move out with 8 tanks and kill him before added gates start producing and leg speed is done. But this is very very risky. And it is better vs the mineral only because you can actually take out that base with your push.
So after you have 2 facts with 2 shops and after you got your speed mine vultures out to mine up expo locations, start to add more factories. Up to 6 usually but maybe up to 7 or even 8 for this guy. And then when you get a third, add 2 more. Or 3 if your macro is still off. Adding more and more factories if your macro is bad doesn't really work though. You just need to go back and add units and sacrifice micro. And speed up everything you do.
So yeah you don't really need to stop production to add factories. Minerals will build up if you are 2 base 2 fact, naturally. But some people do add 4 facts at the same time by stopping production. I don't really see a point in doing so on this level of play.

Then with these positions T is best off with a slow push. Push slow and with a lot of turrets, blocking depots and mines. Don't ever put your tanks on your mines. Also don't put mines right next to your tanks. Be ready for a counter. You can totally crush a counter if you have 4 tanks on your high ground with a lot of mines in front of your choke. You really need to mine stuff up and remine stuff after they get killed. If you don't P will still run T over. If you do with these positions you can take the top left expo and cut off the protoss main from the rest of the map so he has to build gateways in his 3rd. You can take out the wall with just a few units but you need an SCV that builds an ebay there for vision. You also need some vultures there. P will build gateways there and run a zealot or DT into your 2 tanks. But best is to just drop some units inside that base.
Only try to win if the P is bad. If you try to take out his natural you may end up losing. If P suicides his army, unsiege after you macro immediately. P will have no units so kill his natural.

Once you slow push you need to reset rally points every time. Use F-keys. Macro vultures in groups of 2 since they build so fast.

Also the T in this game build way too many supply depots. You want to have two SCVs that keep building depots so you stay ahead. But this guy had 3 building and kept building even when he was like 80/130.

Not so sure about trying to do a timing push before Arbiter stasis at this level. He tried and it didn't work. Best way to counter Arbiters is to 'just' EMP them. Build turrets at places where you have no vision to defend against a recall. Also mine up stuff and build more turrets. It's pretty basic. Once you get recalled you do have to unsiege tanks and go back. Then P will break your slow push. You somehow have to instantly unsiege the minimum amount of tanks.

Do get +3 weapons. And in the case of a starport get it asap.

Python cross positions needs to be played way differently. There you try dropship play into 3base fast upgrades.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
23:00
Biweekly #35
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 158
ProTech122
Nina 91
trigger 51
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 10039
Artosis 658
Shuttle 648
NaDa 67
Icarus 5
Dota 2
monkeys_forever91
NeuroSwarm73
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
fl0m2190
Other Games
summit1g13412
shahzam623
JimRising 529
C9.Mang0215
ViBE163
Maynarde127
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick872
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Light_VIP 10
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt258
Other Games
• Shiphtur146
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
6h 41m
RSL Revival
6h 41m
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
Kung Fu Cup
8h 41m
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Classic vs Cure
Reynor vs TBD
WardiTV Korean Royale
8h 41m
PiGosaur Monday
21h 41m
RSL Revival
1d 6h
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
Kung Fu Cup
1d 8h
herO vs TBD
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
herO vs Gerald
ByuN vs SHIN
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
IPSL
2 days
ZZZero vs rasowy
Napoleon vs KameZerg
BSL 21
2 days
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
BSL 21
3 days
JDConan vs Semih
Dragon vs Dienmax
Tech vs NewOcean
TerrOr vs Artosis
IPSL
3 days
Dewalt vs WolFix
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-07
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 3
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.