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There is this guy in his mid 30s, totally random, unknown, but that has managed his way up to the pastor rankings. How?
I've been attending this church for about five years already, and it's been a good place to go, or it was until about a couple months ago, when this ugly creep arrived and since then has been telling the church exactly what they want to hear.
"This is a good church, the best church, god is going to give you favor and this and that and such and fill in the blank here bitches _________".
Well the pastors, for some reason, love it. They simply love it. This guy HAS to come up to the pulpit at least twice during a sermon to preach some random prophecy that favors the church somehow and people clap and clap.
Guess what the pastors did not long ago homies: They requested an EXTRA offering "to help our new prophet" on top of the one they normally request. He made a shitload of money you know, because we usually have two sermons per sunday. In other words, he got two offerings all for himself.
I really don't know whether to say that this dude is legit or not or just a scam trying to make money out of a stupid church that can't think for themselves; abusing their stupidity for his own good. Like literally, people in there agree with everything the pastors say; in the five years that I've attended, I've yet to see someone stand up and question a pastor or anyone.
EVER
Since that moment on the pastors have been requesting two offerings per sermon (totaling 4 offerings a Sunday) after they found out they could leech more money out of their congregation "for good purposes".
They even changed the church's carpet to make them think their money is being put to good use and the people are all happy with their shiny little faces :D
There are some really smart people in this world, trying to find the slightest chance they can get to abuse a weakness in a system for their own good.
 
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Seems criminal.
This is why i dislike religion.
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lol I would totally go to that church just to entertain myself.
On November 03 2009 23:56 tirentu wrote:
Seems criminal.
This is why i dislike religion.
You're totally right about those things, but the shame is that there are parts of religion that are very good, and people miss out on it coz of the shit the organization does.
-> child molestations
-> robberies like this
-> other random stunts
Is not what religion IS.
Those are things that are done by people who are demented, but happen to be somehow tied to the organization.
Luckily, there are REAL modern prophets, like Eckhart Tolle and some others, that bring the pure message to the people.
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Welcome to the world of organized religion. Enjoy your stay.
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This blog does not make you seem like the type to go to church.
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On November 03 2009 23:56 tirentu wrote:
Those are things that are done by people who are demented, but happen to be somehow tied to the organization.
Funny how those always seem to go together
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On November 04 2009 00:09 Xenocide_Knight wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2009 23:56 tirentu wrote:
Those are things that are done by people who are demented, but happen to be somehow tied to the organization.
Funny how those always seem to go together
what you just said makes no sense at all.
There are demented people everywhere in the world, and some people are great at hiding it until it's too late and they've already harmed someone.
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Snet
United States3573 Posts
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On November 03 2009 23:56 niteReloaded wrote:
Luckily, there are REAL modern prophets, like Eckhart Tolle and some others, that bring the pure message to the people.
Care to share why this "prophet" is any less of a conman?
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Baa?21244 Posts
Must be the False Prophet, the Antichrist is coming soon!
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On November 03 2009 23:56 niteReloaded wrote:
Luckily, there are REAL modern prophets, like Eckhart Tolle and some others, that bring the pure message to the people.
Your joking right.
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On November 04 2009 01:07 wswordsmen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2009 23:56 niteReloaded wrote:
Luckily, there are REAL modern prophets, like Eckhart Tolle and some others, that bring the pure message to the people. Your joking right.
nope, but I have a feeling you and I have a different idea of the meaning of the word prophet.
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This does not shine a positive light on your regular pastors. They are either "in on it" for some extra cash, or just too placid and incompetent to react properly and put an end to his crap.
I am not the least bit religious, but I do admire crafty speakers in any profession. Joel Osteen is an amazing public speaker and speech writer - highly recommended.
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that is what you get for gathering with a crowd to worship a unicorn's wink
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Sounds like smart businessing to me. I mean, if you want to sell food, you go to the hungry. If you work in security, you go to the worried. If you want to exploit other people's stupidity, you go to the gullible.
His scheme only works on gullible people, and who's more suited for something like this than a collection of people who've already proven their gullibleness in their religious belief?
Thumbs up.
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Leaving aside the inevitable church-bashers which seem to crop up much more on the internet than in person because on the internet you aren't actually talking to someone face to face, so you don't really need to think as much about what you're saying....
Really, if your church is turning into a money-making-machine (sadly this is starting to happen again), then complain. Lodge a complaint with the elders (prominent people with a say in the church community), you must have elders, right? Say something along the lines of "this guy's message is that we're good and we're fine, but we shouldn't come to church to hear that. Church is not for stroking your ego, church is for learning about, working for and worshiping God, and things that detract from that should not be pursued."
But really, 4 offerings?? That is excessive man, I've only ever seen two offerings in a service(one normal and one for a special "mission" project to Nepal or Zimbabwe...). I dont know how your church works, and I dont really know how requesting offerings works in America (never lived there), but having an offering just to "help out" this guy is just not cool. You should also demand that if he's so important to them (and their egos?) that he be hired (if he isin't) so that the money transaction there isin't so sketchy (because the way you describe it, it appears quite shady).
So yeah, raise doubts about his teachings/theology and about the sketchy "payments". I don't mean stand up in the middle of the service and yell it, but talk to the right people y'know. Oh and by the way, what denomination is your church? Hope it helps
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So you feel that there is something suspicious, but it doesn't sound as if you approached some officials and asked what the money is used for? If they aren't just collecting the money for their own good, they will be able to show you what the money was used for in detail.
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The whole idea of a 'real prophet' is laughable. Either prophesy is verifiable, and able to be proven wrong, or it's deliberately vague and general, a la Nostradamus, and worthless. I'd love to hear about ANY prophet from ANY context who made specific, verifiable predictions, was proven correct, and didn't do so by simply spewing enough shit that some of it was bound to be correct.
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Anyone else notice that prophet sounds like profit?
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On November 03 2009 23:56 tirentu wrote:
Seems criminal.
This is why i dislike religion.
Religion has so many things wrong with it @_@
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Any kind of movement that becomes organized is always always always susceptible to corruption.
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My one and only religious friend's church tells them who to vote for in elections, its a church here in albuquerque, NM with over 4,000 people.
During the election race, they told everyone obama was the anti-christ, and told them to vote for McCain.
You should be ashamed you even attend such a place, asking for offerings in the first place is fucked up, people will donate if they want to, but fucking FOUR? Calling someone a new prophet? That goes against the bible in its self.
Your church is taking advantage of people.
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On November 04 2009 03:14 Lucktar wrote:
The whole idea of a 'real prophet' is laughable. Either prophesy is verifiable, and able to be proven wrong, or it's deliberately vague and general, a la Nostradamus, and worthless. I'd love to hear about ANY prophet from ANY context who made specific, verifiable predictions, was proven correct, and didn't do so by simply spewing enough shit that some of it was bound to be correct.
If you are referring to my post, I didn't mean Prophet as in someone who says prophecies... but lol yeah, actually prophet means that..
But what I mean was, prophet, like a person with pure heart, who has no selfish agenda, and who is able to give insights on mystery of life.
I'm talking about ppl like Buddha, Mohammed, Jesus.
Prophecies that Jesus said... his intention was not to tell us things like you would tell someone how a movie is gonna end.
His prophecies are like saying "if you throw an apple up, it will fall down." but only on a much deeper level that most people miss.
People with similar levels of wisdom are walking this earth today.
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On November 04 2009 03:51 Kurosaki wrote:
Anyone else notice that prophet sounds like profit?
LOL
It's a baptist church with pentecostal tendencies.
And if I were to approach some of the elders and ask them what is the money used for, I'm sure they will tell me something vague or a lie.
However, many times our pastors have told us "We raised $100,000 in two weeks church, please offer more so that we can reach our goal of $X"; the money always lies around six-digit numbers.
I really don't know much about economics and certainly don't know how much it costs to pay the church's light and water bills, as well as the staff. But I do know that I'm with the filming team and we don't get paid at all. Same thing with the choir. Also, one of our youth pastors, a beloved friend of mine, had to leave the church with his family because the church just simply wouldn't pay him enough to support his family. Yet they're able to make half a million bucks in six months?
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On November 04 2009 04:04 niteReloaded wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2009 03:14 Lucktar wrote:
The whole idea of a 'real prophet' is laughable. Either prophesy is verifiable, and able to be proven wrong, or it's deliberately vague and general, a la Nostradamus, and worthless. I'd love to hear about ANY prophet from ANY context who made specific, verifiable predictions, was proven correct, and didn't do so by simply spewing enough shit that some of it was bound to be correct. If you are referring to my post, I didn't mean Prophet as in someone who says prophecies... but lol yeah, actually prophet means that.. But what I mean was, prophet, like a person with pure heart, who has no selfish agenda, and who is able to give insights on mystery of life. I'm talking about ppl like Buddha, Mohammed, Jesus. Prophecies that Jesus said... his intention was not to tell us things like you would tell someone how a movie is gonna end. His prophecies are like saying "if you throw an apple up, it will fall down." but only on a much deeper level that most people miss. People with similar levels of wisdom are walking this earth today.
I know what you're trying to say, but that sounds more like teachings through parables/general life wisdom.
A prophet is just someone that "predicts the future", however, this should not be confused with a revelation.
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On November 04 2009 04:04 EsX_Raptor wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2009 03:51 Kurosaki wrote:
Anyone else notice that prophet sounds like profit? LOL It's a baptist church with pentecostal tendencies. And if I were to approach some of the elders and ask them what is the money used for, I'm sure they will tell me something vague or a lie. However, many times our pastors have told us "We raised $100,000 in two weeks church, please offer more so that we can reach our goal of $X"; the money always lies around six-digit numbers. I really don't know much about economics and certainly don't know how much it costs to pay the church's light and water bills, as well as the staff. But I do know that I'm with the filming team and we don't get paid at all. Same thing with the choir. Also, one of our youth pastors, a beloved friend of mine, had to leave the church with his family because the church just simply wouldn't pay him enough to support his family. Yet they're able to make half a million bucks in six months?
rofl, nice den of thieves you've got there.
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On November 04 2009 04:13 koreasilver wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2009 04:04 EsX_Raptor wrote:On November 04 2009 03:51 Kurosaki wrote:
Anyone else notice that prophet sounds like profit? LOL It's a baptist church with pentecostal tendencies. And if I were to approach some of the elders and ask them what is the money used for, I'm sure they will tell me something vague or a lie. However, many times our pastors have told us "We raised $100,000 in two weeks church, please offer more so that we can reach our goal of $X"; the money always lies around six-digit numbers. I really don't know much about economics and certainly don't know how much it costs to pay the church's light and water bills, as well as the staff. But I do know that I'm with the filming team and we don't get paid at all. Same thing with the choir. Also, one of our youth pastors, a beloved friend of mine, had to leave the church with his family because the church just simply wouldn't pay him enough to support his family. Yet they're able to make half a million bucks in six months? rofl, nice den of thieves you've got there.
Korea, I love you. I think I get along with you best here. <3
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It kinda makes me sad though, because I used to be a Protestant and my old best friend back in Korea is the son of the pastor of the church I used to go to. I dunno, I find that Protestant churches seem to be really susceptible to corruption in the form of wealth. When I met my friend again for the first time in eight years I just couldn't bring myself to tell him that I abandoned Christianity as a whole a long time ago, nor could I say anything to his mother who has always been good to me. While I was there I heard a lot about the church's plans to create a new building.... that's five stories high or something with underground parking... what?
The main issue that Protestants have is that the individual leaders of each church actually own the church, turning the church into a business. At least with Catholicism the priests do not own the churches that they are assigned to and the priests are paid a salary from the central organization. With the Korean Catholic priests in Ontario, I know that the central authorities actually make the priests rotate to a different district every so years, presumably so that the priests won't get complacent.
I dunno man. I really think you should try to find a new church. It'll probably be hard to and you probably won't because of the attachment you might have to the community but if you're a Christian and you want to continue being a Christian you shouldn't waste your time under people that have completely lost their minds to greed.
On November 04 2009 04:27 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2009 04:13 koreasilver wrote:On November 04 2009 04:04 EsX_Raptor wrote:On November 04 2009 03:51 Kurosaki wrote:
Anyone else notice that prophet sounds like profit? LOL It's a baptist church with pentecostal tendencies. And if I were to approach some of the elders and ask them what is the money used for, I'm sure they will tell me something vague or a lie. However, many times our pastors have told us "We raised $100,000 in two weeks church, please offer more so that we can reach our goal of $X"; the money always lies around six-digit numbers. I really don't know much about economics and certainly don't know how much it costs to pay the church's light and water bills, as well as the staff. But I do know that I'm with the filming team and we don't get paid at all. Same thing with the choir. Also, one of our youth pastors, a beloved friend of mine, had to leave the church with his family because the church just simply wouldn't pay him enough to support his family. Yet they're able to make half a million bucks in six months? rofl, nice den of thieves you've got there. Korea, I love you. I think I get along with you best here. <3
no homo <3
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PanN that's so true man.
I'm a Christian myself, however, because the church has become so fucked, I'm in conflict with religious organizations in general.
I totally agree that offerings shouldn't be asked for. It's like asking people to follow the ten commandments or "they will go to hell". In other words, it should be something that is born out of a person.
And that's fucked up too man, I guess that @ your friend's church, the separation of church and state just went "my ass?" We experienced something similar, if not almost the exact same thing, but way more subtle and planned out:
The slave bitch of the church made a bunch of brochures comparing Obama to McCain, in which she highlighted all the unchristian aspects of Obama (abortion, etc) to McCain's pro-Christian views. This was an obvious bias which sadly, many eyes in my church didn't catch. Furthermore, our pastor took the time of both services to preach to the congregation to do "God's choice, the right choice, not theirs." We also took the time to watch a bunch of McCain videos on the projector screens.
Bias much?
edit:
koreasilver
I was thinking of moving away by myself, because my parents go there too. However, my dad also noticed all of the stuff that has been going on lately and we had a conversation about this, this morning, thus an incentive for me making this blog. Even my mom has been starting to notice how people have changed and have now become more controlling and even prideful. I think she said that because one Sunday I was speaking in Spanish with my Hispanic friends when some elder approached and told us that this was America not Mexico, so "English please."
wtf T.T
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1. Go to a seminary
2. Become a priest
3. Say "god" in every other sentence
4. ???????
5. PROPHET
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On November 04 2009 04:04 EsX_Raptor wrote:
And if I were to approach some of the elders and ask them what is the money used for, I'm sure they will tell me something vague or a lie.
You think they would actually lie to you?? O_O
That's an issue that seriously needs attention I think. If they're straight out lying to you then I'd say you have far worse troubles than "just" some economical corruption. :S
I'm not sure how it would be possible, but I think you need to find a way to regain your trust in the church leadership or perhaps you need to find another church.
A warning though; I don't think it's healthy to switch church whenever there's trouble. You can't always run from your problems. Although I understand that it might be difficult for you to change anything in such a big church. You should remember this though:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Timothy 4:12&version=NIV
I hope things works out for you... I wouldn't want to be in your situation tbh.
EDIT:
Another thing; if you don't really know anyone in the church leadership that well, then maybe you can try to find someone else who you do trust, that knows people in the leadership better than you. I think it would be a good idea to talk to someone like that first.
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Yeah EsX_Raptor, his church was really really messed up.
My mom goes to church still, but they don't ask for any offerings, they also donate around 80% of their profit, I know because I was on the committee when I was religious.
The rest goes to keeping the entire buildings rent, its a small church, but in a shopping center, they own the whole center though.
I know of numerous occasions where people missed rent, and the church paid it for them.
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United States41117 Posts
I wasn't aware that Baptists had church elders... I mean is actual their title "Elder" ?
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yeah they're called elders (with title and even badge)
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On November 04 2009 12:46 EsX_Raptor wrote:
yeah they're called elders (with title and even badge)
Oh, they exist and have a badge.....
Just to clarify (and not pry) what type of baptist church is it (affects the way they work + theology + policy)? Im guessing Southern Baptist?
Thats not too great if your elders are telling you to not speak in Spanish and showing McCain videos :/
Its going to be hard, but if you really have a conviction that what is happening is not right and your family has noticed something as well, then this might be a challenge God is giving you. I mean, its not always best to run away or boycott, because the alternative, to stay, speak up, and say what needs to be said and is the truth, can result in a better change not only for you but for the entire church. One thing that I struggle with is can't see why some challenges and struggles crop in my life, I don't know why even if I love, trust and try to obey God, shit still happens. That and also not seeing why we "just end up" in situations or do things without really having logical reasons for doing them but inexplicably end up being great can easily be answered by this parable I made up:
Ok, you are a toddler doing what you want to do, when and where you want to do it. You wont take no shit from nobody, you're the boss and you know whats best. Though your parents may be telling you to walk towards them, you don't because you see no reason why, and you're just bad-ass.
Now, you lack the perspective to see that on your current course you're walking towards a cliff, and the only way you'll avoid falling is if you turn around and walk directly towards your parents.
The moral is: sometimes we cant see WHY things happen, or WHY we should do things, but if we know its what God wants, just do it, its what's best. Its impossible for us to really see WHY, we would have to not only be able to see EVERYTHING that is happening everywhere, and understand it, we would need to be able to see into the future and see what the consequences of our actions are.
You might not know why your church is changing for the worse, but if you want to know what to do, pray about it and you will be at peace.
Finally, I encourage you and will pray for you. GL HF hope it helps
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welcome to peter popoff productions
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also
step 1
find ignorant church and peoples.
step 2
prophet.
step 3
????
step 4
profit.
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EPT
