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note: I read over this after writing it. It's long, it's boring, if you don't play 2v2 you probably won't know what I'm talking about.
I started playing again recently. I really only play 2v2, which was what I was into before I quit playing for about 5 months (a bit before summer break to a bit after). I went on ICCUP and I found one of my old friends online, so we played some, getting me a pretty easy 16-0 C-.
I don't ally a lot of the "good" zerg players on ICCUP, because most of the good players are complete cocksuckers. By this I mean that if you imagine people who are so annoying and BM that x17 would ban them, then you can imagine the ICCUP 2x2 channel when it's active. I won't name names but the constantly ROFL LMAO KID PLZ NECK SNAP ROFL EASY etc grates on my nerves so I don't want to ally them. I have allied some quite good zerg players but ultimately enjoying my 2v2 is more important to me than winning and I hate allying super BM arrogant assholes.
So usually I stick to allying about 3 people, but sometimes when I really want to play I go ahead and ally whoever messages me when I'm spamming for allies (there are often 10+ people all spamming GOSU ALLY MSG ME and ignoring one another). When I'm playing like this I know that the zergs I ally are going to be lower than my standards, but I want to play. The thing that bugs the fuck out of me is that every single goddamn zerg tells me they are A/A- high rank yet they are atrocious. If you'd just be honest with me and say you are a C+ player then I'd probably help you out and try to explain stuff I think we could have done different etc if we lost. If you claim to be A and are fucking terrible then I'm going to get pissed off when you play like garbage and make the most idiotic decisions imaginable. I can usually restrain myself but after 3-4 games with a complete moron ally I can get kind of frustrated. I allied someone who said he was A rank today. What happened in the game was as follows: TZ vs PZ. My ally 9pools, enemy 9hs, and I tell my ally to go to the Z. We go, 2 rine, his lings, we kill some lings, and we force the other Z to sunken. Neither of us loses ANY units. This means that the economic advantage the other zerg had has now been negated.Oh, wait, my ally is DEAD. The P sends ONE zealot to him, and fucking RAPES him because my ally somehow thought he was going to go 1 hatch 6 drone on minerals lair vs a super obvious 9h mass + 2 gate zealot strat. He didn't even make the 1 sunken that any D+ zerg knows to make when moving out with the possibility of being countered. This guy was claiming to be A while making the stupidest, most inexperienced decisions possible for a pretty common situation. I'm just sick of these zergs on ICCUP who only know how to 1 hatch spire; they don't know how to gain an economic advantage, how to play for mid game off an advantage, when to expand and play passively for economy, etc. These are kind of 1v1 skills but they're the skills that set apart the truly good Zerg 2v2 allies and the mediocre 9p-every-game-into-1-hatch-spire-vs-noobs A- zergs that are a dime a dozen on ICCUP. So now I'm 22-5 C-.
Another zerg goes 9p vs 12p TZ vs PZ, goes into 1 hatch spire, has 6 drones mining, then has to make an evo since it's same muta timing and he is 1 hatch vs 2 hatch, doesn't even save larva to make muta fast, then has like 5 drones on minerals, 1 hatch. So obviously this is bad, he has a terrible economy, I have to put extra units into defending him, and I have to keep up a 2 CC scv pump since I expanded fast to maintain my advantage. In this kind of situation (very common again) he just needs to match the Z in enough time before the Z gets too big to fuck with me if I leave my base to stop the P from expoing. He could just expand, make 4 spores so that I don't have to use half my shit to defend him, save his gas, get a sick economy going (by 2v2 standards), then bust out 20 mutas at once off 2 hatches and a saved 2000 gas. These 2v2 zergs on ICCUP don't understand timing beyond the "make ling, attack before cannon" phase. To continue the battle report, the P turtled with cannons. So it's like 6 lings from Z, 4 zealot from P. I expand extremely fast, get 6 rax up, vessel, raping P, and my ally just gets absolutely slammed by the other Z because of his truly stupid as hell decisions. When my ally sees that I am so far ahead and I am expanding there is literally no reason whatsoever to go 1 lair spire and try to play vs a 2 hatch zerg who has a WAY better economy off a 12p spire build. Nobody is going to hit him, there's no rush, he could EASILY just expand with some cover from my MM. Instead he stayed on 6 drones mining on minerals for the entire game (which lasted about 12 minutes longer from his first mutas, with 6-7 minutes of no action in the middle when I was so far ahead, aka no need to stay on 6 drones). There were 5+ minutes of complete silence on the map as I had complete map control with my MM vs the terrible protoss. My ally didn't pick off a single HT, he got dominated, and we lost because I can't play vs big zealot goon HT armies and muta harass in my main at the same time.
In that kind of situation you might ask "but can't you win 2v1 if you are ahead?" The answer is sometimes yes, but in this case, no. I CAN win if the Z and P come out and let me fight them in the middle, but smart PZ teams vs me FEing like this and my ally being behind will turtle like bitches. When I am alone, 2v1ing a PZ team, all they have to do is make 5 billion cannons and HT and sunkens on ramp, get some HT to Z, have Z expand, blahblah. Until I have a LOT of tanks (which are shitty to make when SK terraning vs PZ) I can't really kill mass turtles like that. What I need is for my ally to make his mutas and get a muta advantage over the other Z (if not from the beginning, then either through expanding with my MM map control, or waiting for my irradiate to rape the opponent's mutas). Then he can help me by picking off HT and taking hits from goons and cannons. It's not hard to make an army with enough tanks and MM fast enough to kill either the Z or the P by myself but it IS hard when I have to do that and deal with constant harassment from the enemy Z at my base because my ally has 15 less mutas.
The other sad thing is that nowadays I think some of these terrible as fuck zergs ARE A-, and they aren't even lying; it's just that A- is so easy to get in 2v2 now, and there are so many stats whores in the 2v2 channel, that you can suck ass and still get "A-". I guess I need to revise my standards of "good," because there are "real" A-'s and "fake" A-'s, just like the A+ foreigner who plays 100% zvz in 1v1 versus the guy who is A- with 100% games vs Koreans. I allied a guy who was just awful as fuck TZ vs TZ and he WAS A-, TWICE. That just blew my mind, he was so bad; I actually remembered him from the last season I played and he was like a C+ then. So to go from C+ to A- in 2 seasons either means he practiced a TON (no) or A- just got easier. Last time I played ICCUP (only 2 seasons ago) there were only 10-15 A-'s total at the end of the season, and now there's 1.5 pages of A-'s at the end. So many newb teams stats whore and pick matchups and just wait for noobs to get to B- so they can bash them (B+ & D team is B rank, so you can get A- playing for +97 pts vs a B- team). Most A- stop at 9000 and never play again. I don't respect any of those fools who just want the green name. There are only like 5-6 teams that actually continue playing and massgaming when they get to the green ranks, and those are the actually good 2v2 teams; everyone else is just playing for that 9001 and stopping.
This general atmosphere and BM is a huge turn off for me in 2v2 on ICCUP. I really hate dealing with all these people who can't just PLAY and who have to constantly swap out accounts and go on D names and whatever just to preserve their stats. It's also kind of annoying when you get to A- to play ONLY the same 4-5 teams over and over and over.
Fuck. I wish I could clone myself and have him play Z and ally me.
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Eh.
It's a really long wall of text which is expected from a rant. I'm trying to read it though rofl.
If you want ill play some 2v2s with you. Seems like a good break from my 1v1 massing. I dont really play 2v2 though you might not be interested. ^^
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On September 15 2009 19:00 SnowFantasy wrote:
Eh.
It's a really long wall of text which is expected from a rant. I'm trying to read it though rofl.
If you want ill play some 2v2s with you. Seems like a good break from my 1v1 massing. I dont really play 2v2 though you might not be interested. ^^
Haha. Sure we can play sometime. I can play all races fairly well (my T a little better than my P and my Z is worse than both). I added another paragraph break. It is a rant though 
I'll be free all day tomorrow, got some work to do but it can be done whenever. You can shoot me a PM if you want.
I think I'll start playing PZ vs PZ with allies I don't know. My TZ vs PZ style is pretty "unique" to my main ally and myself and I don't think other zergs can emulate it (i.e. they suck too much ass at midgame - I tend to go for expanding when I have a unit advantage, and playing a straight up macro game vs PZ, rather than bunkering or early timing pushes). PZ vs PZ does not suffer from the same problems TZ vs PZ can suffer from at lower levels.
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I totally agree that the high ranks are too easy to get in 2v2. I am not exactly a great player, but compared to 1v1 it really is easier.
Since I am a zerg player myself I can't really share your pain, but zergs playing like that are a shame.
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BM is the best part of the game, wtf?
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On September 15 2009 19:25 myfriendPlank wrote:
BM is the best part of the game, wtf?
I admit that sometimes BM can be funny, but it has to be tongue in cheek or legitimately amusing to be that way. Most of the BM exhibited by these uncreative fools is just aggravating, repetitive drivel. You could write about 15 common "x17" lines, have a bot randomly select and print a line every 30 seconds, and you'd have what I'm talking about.
I'm not condemning all shit talking or all competitive trash talk, I'm condemning the BM that you'll see if you sit around in clan x17 on East; that kind of BM is just dumb and facetious. SIT SAT SO FAT, RAPED, TROUNCED, NECK SNAPPED, 2 EZzZZ SON, etc. That's annoying. Bravado, light hearted trash talk, that's all fine. I do squelch, obviously, but this is a rant so let me get away with it lol. It can ruin the mood of a decent set of games when you have 2 teams playing a very good game and say you lose by a tiny margin, only to be told FUCKING RAPED NOOB 2 EZ when all you said was "gg" when you left; you can imagine that would be really irritating and ruin your mood for more games with that team.
I'm the kind of person who doesn't like to play grudge matches, even when I know I'm going to win, or matches that have a lot of shittalk "riding" on the outcome. Even if it's a D+ team talking huge shit to me I usually don't feel inclined to "prove" them wrong or whatever.
And I know this is stupid and I don't let it get to me but there are different connotations to me for rofl vs lmao vs lol. Rofl always comes off as much more annoying and insulting, while lol is more actually used for something amusing rather than mocking people. That's just me though and I've realized that pretty much EVERYONE on East (where I play if not on ICCUP) uses it ubiquitously so I don't have any sort of outward reaction to it.
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Alright PM sent. ^^
Back to watching these map test games.
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it is kinda ironic that you started the rant by saying that 2v2 gamers are too bm nowadays, then went on to say how shit all your teammates were when it seems like all they did was say their high rank (which you said half of them are telling the truth) and play with you?
Buttttt... That being said i can agree with you that stat whoring like that is a little on the bent side.
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When i first came back to BW last year, I went to 2v2ing, cause thats all I did really early in bw (first 6 years) and it is what I consider myself to be "good" at (top 5 in CL/WGT, played on a WC3L team for 2s, etc) but Iccup 2v2 is lame.
First off, No one will play with you unless your stats are like 30-0, or they will just disregard you, but its impossible to get 30-0 without a partner.
My rule of thumb for 2v2ing nowadays after that horrible experience last year, Only 2v2 if you have a partner you know WELL. Its pointless to 2v2 with random people, unless its like on east server for fun. Never 2v2 with pubbies. Thats my rule anyways, and I will carry it over to SC2.
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2v2 is incredibly frustrating if you and your partner don't have the same ideas about 2v2. Some people are really agressive and will do anything to maintain map control and deny expansions, while others are fine with sitting more back and developing an economic advantage. Both can be fine, but you need to agree on one or the other - you can't do both. Then there are those one-trick-wonders that only know one build and sticks to it no matter what. Useless people >.<
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I love it when you play 2v2 with random players in the D rank or something, and your Protoss teammate thinks that it's a good idea to forge fe.
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Haha wow great rant, Everything you talked about is so true.
Dont you love how in everyones profile it says "random ally" yet they wont ally anyone unless there like 25-0.
I host a game and play with whoever joins thats random ally.
Sure occasionally you get the protoss who builds 5 probes and then makes an assimilator but whatever Im just playin to play, I dont care about stats so much.
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i'll play some 2v2s with you, terran is boring for me now and I am playing zerg!
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we should ally some time btw
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really? this big rant because of a game where you went fast expo in tz v pz?
is that the kind of thinking that makes you believe you are actually worth giving advice in 2vs2?
seriously, you're just one of the bunch you're criticizing, and as the rest of them you should learn to bear with losing and look back at your strategies. instead you're only complaining about your stats and your allies: how "2x2 ladder"ish...
2vs2 is about teamplay, and if you can't get that part right you just won't win.
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On September 16 2009 01:44 Shiv wrote:
really? this big rant because of a game where you went fast expo in tz v pz?
is that the kind of thinking that makes you believe you are actually worth giving advice in 2vs2?
seriously, you're just one of the bunch you're criticizing, and as the rest of them you should learn to bear with losing and look back at your strategies. instead you're only complaining about your stats and your allies: how "2x2 ladder"ish...
2vs2 is about teamplay, and if you can't get that part right you just won't win.
What are you talking about? I know exactly what I'm doing and expanding fast is just one of several counters to passive PZ play as a TZ team. If you didn't pick up on it I do have a pretty good idea of how 2v2 works. I didn't FE fast expand, I expanded after a few MM once we saw that P had cannon turtle and Z had sunken turtle and they both had 0 offensive units. You can bunker, you can timing rush, and you can expand. Those are your options vs passive PZ play. I was complaining about the fact that my ally clearly has no idea how to play like that because all he does every single game is 1 hatch spire. There is no actual argument for what he was doing, even if it is a stylistic issue - what he did was simply wrong.
On September 15 2009 22:03 Ftrunkz wrote:
it is kinda ironic that you started the rant by saying that 2v2 gamers are too bm nowadays, then went on to say how shit all your teammates were when it seems like all they did was say their high rank (which you said half of them are telling the truth) and play with you?
Buttttt... That being said i can agree with you that stat whoring like that is a little on the bent side.
I don't think it's too hypocritical/ironic for me to be bm in a private rant on TL about allies while complaining about bm, since it's not like I say anything to them besides the fact that I don't want to ally them anymore after 3-4 bad games. I'm sure everyone gets frustrated but what matters is whether or not you show it and are a dick or can wait a few minutes and get over it. I think it's a little bm by itself to lie so blatantly about your rank too. I've never met anyone but "A" rank zergs on iccup and statistically that's just not possible.
On September 15 2009 22:46 Skyze wrote:
When i first came back to BW last year, I went to 2v2ing, cause thats all I did really early in bw (first 6 years) and it is what I consider myself to be "good" at (top 5 in CL/WGT, played on a WC3L team for 2s, etc) but Iccup 2v2 is lame.
First off, No one will play with you unless your stats are like 30-0, or they will just disregard you, but its impossible to get 30-0 without a partner.
My rule of thumb for 2v2ing nowadays after that horrible experience last year, Only 2v2 if you have a partner you know WELL. Its pointless to 2v2 with random people, unless its like on east server for fun. Never 2v2 with pubbies. Thats my rule anyways, and I will carry it over to SC2.
You're right, of course, but sometimes you just wanna play and you go against your better judgment and ally random people.
On September 16 2009 00:10 Kingsp4de20 wrote:
Haha wow great rant, Everything you talked about is so true.
Dont you love how in everyones profile it says "random ally" yet they wont ally anyone unless there like 25-0.
I host a game and play with whoever joins thats random ally.
Sure occasionally you get the protoss who builds 5 probes and then makes an assimilator but whatever Im just playin to play, I dont care about stats so much.
I love when some team comes back to the channel and one of the guys is like GODDAMN FUCKING RANDOM ALLIES JESUS CHRIST. Even the top players put that shit in their profile and whine about it all the time. I remember playin Yan and Drewbie in my first season of 2v2 and our first win against them; after they lost Yan refused to talk to Drewbie for like 2 weeks and put all these insults about Drewbie in his profile. Lol! That's what I think is sad about the 2v2 environment - can't take a loss, can't just keep playing. I used to get mad at losses but after I grew up some (SC is one of those few games that's been around long enough to be able to say you grew up during the playing of it lol) it just got stupid.
Anyways a rant is always bound to offend some people lol 
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I am sorry to say that I do some of the things you mentioned.
Yes, sometimes I will complain in the 2x2 channel about how random allies (particularly protosses, since I play Terran exclusively) are fail.
-_-
But what also makes 2x2 frustrating is the fact that it's hard to improve when the only people you can ally with are people who are trying to figure out how to use TZ team as well. ~_~
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this is why i quit 2:2.
great example is Lee. seriously he is terrible how did he get a+ so many seasons..
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On September 17 2009 12:21 CoOl]1st[ wrote:
this is why i quit 2:2.
great example is Lee. seriously he is terrible how did he get a+ so many seasons..
answer = sucking yan's cock in broken english
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not even, it was capi, but then again capi made dark A+ too so i mean thats ridiculous. i like how low level asia hunters players are easily the number one A/A+ users on iccup, they dont have any competition there. just shows how easy ladder 2x2 is if you have the energy to stats/ally whore.
look at iFU.Bylat he is seriously one of the worst players ever however ive seen him with B+(WTF) 1:1 off playing 100-120 B-'s and A- 2:2 by playing just B- and having allys that are x500 his skill rofl.
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EPT
