• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:07
CEST 17:07
KST 00:07
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash8[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy13ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6Aligulac acquired by REPLAYMAN.com/Stego Research6Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool49Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win4
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple Aligulac acquired by REPLAYMAN.com/Stego Research Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2) herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Season 4 announced for March-April StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) WardiTV Mondays World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
Mutation # 519 Inner Power The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone Mutation # 517 Distant Threat
Brood War
General
Build Order Practice Maps BW General Discussion Pros React To: SoulKey vs Ample [ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
Azhi's Colosseum - Foreign KCM [ASL21] Ro24 Group F [ASL21] Ro24 Group D [ASL21] Ro24 Group E
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1569 users

[MSL Spoilers] Who's the Fairest of them All?

Blogs > Roffles
Post a Reply
1 2 3 Next All
Roffles *
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-20 13:04:59
August 20 2009 12:31 GMT
#1
Mirror Mirror on the wall, who's the fairest of them all?
Warning: Massive Spoilers Ahead


60 minutes after the start of today's MSL Semis between Iris and Kwanro, both players would have answered the same: Byun Hyung Tae. After thoroughly demolishing the rodent zerg in the first two sets, Iris was firmly in command of the series. Kwanro looked relatively shaken up after losing game 2 in disappointing fashion.

Experience was on Iris' side as well. Having been to the biggest stage of em all at the Daum OSL Finals, Iris was no stranger to such a big stage. Our little Pikachu however, was just getting a taste of the big stage. 2-0'd by the so called CJ Team Killer. Coincidentally, Iris was also up 2-0 on GGPlay in the OSL Finals until he coincidentally got stomped by GGPlay's ridiculous swarm play. But let's not sidetrack ourselves here.

About 15 minutes into Game 3 on Outsider, Iris was pretty much in full command of the game, looking to basically clean up for an easy 3-0 sweep. With a sizable army, 4 bases, and a ton of vessels, Iris decides to just basically screw around, send his 10 vessels in nonchalantly and irradiate some OLs.

Then, the SVs went boom. A couple plagues and a couple muta shots later, Iris' SV count dwindled to about 2. 5-10 minutes later, he'd find himself getting attacked by 10+ ultras. 60 minutes later, he'd find himself going home once again defeated 3-2 after being up 2-0 in a Best of 5 series to a zerg. Kwanro swiftly annihilated our hero terran in games 4 and 5 and has graced us with yet ANOTHER ZvZ finals.

When you look back into Starleague History, you'll see that there haven't been many SLs without big name players. Most recently, you might consider Luxury/Jangbi to be one of the worst Starleagues, but nothing compares to this atrocity we got in the MSL. Calm vs Kwanro.

Now I know some immediately thought "Almost as bad as NATE OSL" (The NATE OSL was the OSL that Sync eventually won, but no one really cared cause every favorite got eliminated early on and South Korea also made a huge World Cup run during that time period). However, at least we got to see Sync play some TvZ in the Nate finals. Who doesn't like to see Sync play TvZ? Fireworks terran was fucking awesome.

Anyways, now effectively we have arguably the worst Starleague finals in store for us. A mirror matchup ZvZ between a decent player in Calm, and a quite mediocre player in Kwanro who got rather lucky on his way to the Finals. Having to play Zero in ZvZ in the quarters was just lucky as hell. But besides the point, I would have rather seen Calm play Backho. Backho sucks at PvZ, but damn I woulda much rather seen any other race player get to the finals.

Zerg vs Zerg sucks. It's a matchup that involves 5 units: The drone, overlord, mutalisk, scourge, and zergling. Games range from 5 minutes to 15 minutes long and involve small and big battles of mutalisks, scourges, and zerglings. Early game, everyone makes zerglings and they go attack each other. Mid game, everyone makes mutalisks/scourge and they attack each other. Late game, everyone has a ton of mutalisks and zerglings and they attack each other.

At least in TvT you get some varying game lengths with all different types of strategies. Just the other day we saw UpMagic nuke Light in one of the most intense TvTs I've ever seen before with some epic base swapping. Dropship play, vult play, mass tank play, BCs are basically all viable in TvT. PvP on the other hand is quite possibly the most variable mirror matchup. Fast DTs, 4 gate, 2 gate reaver, etc. are all viable builds and make for some nice battles with some good storms going off.

Zerg vs zerg though leaves us with mutas, lings, and scourge. EVERY SINGLE GAME. If Jaedong weren't playing in the OSL finals and instead say Zero made it instead, I seriously doubt anyone would wanna watch Zero/Yarnc ZvZ finals either. Seriously, ZvZ BO5s are terrible to watch. Now, we're graced with two of them, and I don't even know who to blame for this atrocity. MSL organizers are probably shooting themselves if they aren't already dead over this finals. Instead of what could have been Jaedong/Bisu, we get Calm/Kwanro.

Mirror Mirror on the Wall, who's the fairest of them all? While Kwanro laughs and smiles when he asks the mirror this question, the general viewing public is left to cry and weep. Oh, the possibilities. Iris/Calm woulda been good. Jaedong/Bisu too. But no, we're stuck with Kwanro/Calm.

Fuck me, ZvZ sucks, and I am NOT watching this MSL Finals. Who cares enough to watch ZvZ? Especially a final with Calm and Kwanro. I'll go watch Jaedong win that Golden Mouse of his, but I'll just forget that Avalon ever sponsored a MSL.

***
God Bless
writer22816
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States5775 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-20 12:40:59
August 20 2009 12:40 GMT
#2
Completely agree.

edit: except for your sig, I dunno what loli is but kpop sucks
8/4/12 never forget, never forgive.
petzergling
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
538 Posts
August 20 2009 12:41 GMT
#3
iris was destroying kwanro easily and then he just uses 9 pool cheeselings on a map impossible to defend against it
Mod Edit: Don't bold your entire post
l10f *
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States3241 Posts
August 20 2009 12:41 GMT
#4
ZvZ CAN be very interesting with some amazing micro and unorthodox builds.

But ZvZ can also be quick and boring when it's a one sided game. (or build order win)
Writer
Camlito
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Australia4040 Posts
August 20 2009 12:42 GMT
#5
I don't like watching zvz too much too but i hate people insulting it who don't even understand it.

However i will not watch kwanro vs calm. I will watch the OSL however :D. Pumped for that.

Jaedong vs Yarnc = Stork vs Best PvP in a way. Kwanro vs Calm zvz = Backho vs Tempest or any other decent/mediocre protoss (dont hurt me backho fans) that you substitute.
sAviOr...
Roffles *
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Pitcairn19291 Posts
August 20 2009 12:43 GMT
#6
On August 20 2009 21:41 l10f wrote:
ZvZ CAN be very interesting with some amazing micro and unorthodox builds.

But ZvZ can also be quick and boring when it's a one sided game. (or build order win)

Care to enlighten me as to what "unorthodox" builds you're talking about?
God Bless
stanley_
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States816 Posts
August 20 2009 12:46 GMT
#7
you forgot the most important unit in ZvZ the DRONES.

I actually like watching zvz especially those critical moments in them.
hoorah
foeffa
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Belgium2115 Posts
August 20 2009 12:47 GMT
#8
I don't like ZvZ either. I 'll probably watch the games anyway, but I 'd rather have another match-up. :/
And Iris so should've won, argh. :| I like Pikachu zerg but I like Iris more.
觀過斯知仁矣.
Kentor *
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5784 Posts
August 20 2009 12:48 GMT
#9
LOL second msl that i won't watch in a row.
DIMJkE
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Bulgaria425 Posts
August 20 2009 12:50 GMT
#10
Iris was in the Daum finals.
Roffles *
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Pitcairn19291 Posts
August 20 2009 12:53 GMT
#11
On August 20 2009 21:50 DIMJkE wrote:
Iris was in the Daum finals.

Yes he was, I really do need to go sleep. Now Daum was a good finals.
God Bless
DIMJkE
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Bulgaria425 Posts
August 20 2009 12:53 GMT
#12
On August 20 2009 21:53 Roffles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2009 21:50 DIMJkE wrote:
Iris was in the Daum finals.

Yes he was, I really do need to go sleep. Now Daum was a good finals.

Then change the OP lol
Roffles *
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Pitcairn19291 Posts
August 20 2009 12:55 GMT
#13
On August 20 2009 21:53 DIMJkE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2009 21:53 Roffles wrote:
On August 20 2009 21:50 DIMJkE wrote:
Iris was in the Daum finals.

Yes he was, I really do need to go sleep. Now Daum was a good finals.

Then change the OP lol

Well obviously I changed the OP.
God Bless
JohnColtrane
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Australia4813 Posts
August 20 2009 12:59 GMT
#14
1/5, zvz rules, crying sucks
HEY MEYT
NeverGG *
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United Kingdom5399 Posts
August 20 2009 13:06 GMT
#15
Crap I have to actually get that massive Kwanro!Pikachu banner printed now.
우리 행운의 모양은 여러개지만 행복의 모양은 하나
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66358 Posts
August 20 2009 13:08 GMT
#16
WHY IRIS WHY
POGGERS
JohnBall
Profile Joined December 2008
Brazil1272 Posts
August 20 2009 13:11 GMT
#17
I would like to let you know that I will be watching this finals because ZvZ rulezzzz!
But I am still undecided who I should hoot for. I love both kwanro and calm's styles!
perfecting the art of five pool forever
kaleidoscope
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Singapore2887 Posts
August 20 2009 13:13 GMT
#18
I glance at the result 2-1 in favour of Iris, so i thought he had it, and i went on to dota.. And now Iris lost?

Zerg vs Zerg is fun =D I love how ppl have to micro lings with precisions and split-second decisions..
대지따라 돌린게 시간이다.. 흘러가고 돌아오지도 않고..
alffla
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Hong Kong20321 Posts
August 20 2009 13:25 GMT
#19
late game, zvz is like defilers hydralisk lurkers 1000 overlords vs 201000 mutaslisk tehn queens then plague ensnare darkswarm HOLY SHI WTF?????????

G_G

...if they even get to that late game

hoping for julyzerg vs yellow and yellow vs ggplay style zvzs :\
Graphicssavior[gm] : What is a “yawn” rape ;; Masumune - It was the year of the pig for those fucking defilers. Chill - A clinic you say? okum: SC without Korean yelling is like porn without sex. konamix: HAPPY BIRTHDAY MOMMY!
Ota Solgryn
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Denmark2011 Posts
August 20 2009 13:25 GMT
#20
Sounds like you have a very good understanding of ZvZ!!!
ihasaKAROT: "Wish people would stop wasting their lives on finding flaws in others"
1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Kung Fu Cup
11:00
2026 Week 3
RotterdaM880
TKL 237
SteadfastSC201
IndyStarCraft 198
Rex126
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 880
Hui .299
TKL 237
SteadfastSC 201
IndyStarCraft 198
ProTech130
Rex 126
LamboSC2 124
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 57576
Calm 6639
Bisu 2736
EffOrt 1107
Jaedong 979
Soma 693
Stork 489
Soulkey 338
firebathero 331
Mini 305
[ Show more ]
Rush 277
ggaemo 220
PianO 206
actioN 186
hero 151
Dewaltoss 110
BeSt 81
Mind 75
sorry 67
Barracks 46
Hyun 45
ToSsGirL 32
Sharp 25
Shine 24
JYJ 22
Rock 18
GoRush 17
Aegong 17
Hm[arnc] 16
Movie 13
Sexy 13
yabsab 13
soO 12
Noble 11
Terrorterran 10
Sacsri 9
Counter-Strike
byalli430
ceh9420
fl0m209
oskar59
adren_tv53
Other Games
singsing2037
B2W.Neo646
hiko613
Beastyqt321
DeMusliM230
FrodaN185
QueenE130
KnowMe128
XaKoH 121
mouzStarbuck106
Trikslyr31
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV10
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 6
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HeavenSC 21
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 19
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV996
League of Legends
• Nemesis3848
• Jankos1885
• TFBlade1052
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
8h 53m
The PondCast
18h 53m
OSC
1d 8h
RSL Revival
1d 18h
TriGGeR vs Cure
ByuN vs Rogue
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Maru vs MaxPax
BSL
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
BSL
4 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-31
WardiTV Winter 2026
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
Escore Tournament S2: W1
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.