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On August 21 2009 02:46 Avidkeystamper wrote:
What's so good about this map pool besides Outsider?
That every single map is terrible for at least 1 p matchup? God's garden is 30% for Pvz/pvt. HBR is z favored, and Outsider isn't actually z favored overall. The map pool guaranteed Yarnc a place in the finals, and weak terrans guaranteed JD's place, along with Yarnc taking out Flash (Sorry fantasy fans, his tvz isn't strong enough for a b05 with JD). I haven't followed the msl very closely, besides Bisu/Iris. How kwanro got this far is beyond me, totally.
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4pool 4pool 4pool now lets go celebrate or suicide
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On August 21 2009 04:08 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2009 02:46 Avidkeystamper wrote:
What's so good about this map pool besides Outsider? That every single map is terrible for at least 1 p matchup? God's garden is 30% for Pvz/pvt. HBR is z favored, and Outsider isn't actually z favored overall. The map pool guaranteed Yarnc a place in the finals, and weak terrans guaranteed JD's place, along with Yarnc taking out Flash (Sorry fantasy fans, his tvz isn't strong enough for a b05 with JD). I haven't followed the msl very closely, besides Bisu/Iris. How kwanro got this far is beyond me, totally.
God's garden is not in the individual leagues. HBR is not zerg favored, lol what's good about it? The ridges where you can spawn broodling? That was one game. The lurker contain ridges? Just look at Hoejja vs Jangbi, there are so many paths to go around the ramps.
The only thing is Outsider, which forces reaver/sair as the best way to win.
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On August 21 2009 04:24 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2009 04:08 Nevuk wrote:On August 21 2009 02:46 Avidkeystamper wrote:
What's so good about this map pool besides Outsider? That every single map is terrible for at least 1 p matchup? God's garden is 30% for Pvz/pvt. HBR is z favored, and Outsider isn't actually z favored overall. The map pool guaranteed Yarnc a place in the finals, and weak terrans guaranteed JD's place, along with Yarnc taking out Flash (Sorry fantasy fans, his tvz isn't strong enough for a b05 with JD). I haven't followed the msl very closely, besides Bisu/Iris. How kwanro got this far is beyond me, totally. God's garden is not in the individual leagues. HBR is not zerg favored, lol what's good about it? The ridges where you can spawn broodling? That was one game. The lurker contain ridges? Just look at Hoejja vs Jangbi, there are so many paths to go around the ramps. The only thing is Outsider, which forces reaver/sair as the best way to win.
HBR is zerg favored in zvp, Terran favored in tvz, p favored in pvt (but not by much). It's not really unbalanced like battle royal or anything, but it's not a perfectly balanced map. God's Garden was in GOM (which had TVT final). Reaver/sair has always been legitimate and just as strong as any P opening, with the difference as to what is the best opening being what the map encourages. (Andro = great for reaver/sair, hbr = terrible). I don't understand this argument at all, it's like saying that maps that encourage P to FE in pvz like medusa are imbalanced for that reason, and that reason alone.
Holy World
Holy World SE
HBR
Outsider
RoTK.
Whether holy world is balanced or not really isn't proven, HBR we already covered, Outsider is 12-11 pvz, (Yes, 27 - 42 including prelims/minor league though).
In fact, let's take a look at the prelim results on these maps - we usually don't count these when considering map balance, however, when the overall racial balance of the tourney itself comes into question, I feel these are more important than the actual results, as they determine the participants.
Outsider is
9 - 22 PvZ
14-17 pvt
13-19 zvt
Rotk
13 - 27pvz
26- 17 zvt
26-20 pvt (idra was one of the T, random fact)
Oh, and God's Garden WAS used for this.
21-16 pvz
17- 24 pvt
25 -25 tvz
It's interesting to note that some of these maps seem much more balanced at a higher level of play (Outsider especially), or after time has passed becoming worse for p. Occasionally they switch around entirely like ROTK's pvt or God's Garden's pvz.
Take a look at the overall win % for each race on the prelims :
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/leagues/173_09_Spring_MST_Prelims
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/leagues/172_09_Spring_OSL_Prelims
ZvP was above 60% for both, with tvz being basically 50, and PvT being 45/55 in the Osl and 47/53 in the MST.
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Baa?21243 Posts
Fuck the haters, ZvZ ftw.
I will be excitedly watching both of these finals.
Calm + Jaedong fighting!
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On August 20 2009 21:40 writer22816 wrote:
Completely agree.
edit: except for your sig, I dunno what loli is but kpop sucks
it's better than loli...
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Baa?21243 Posts
He beat Effort and Jaedong soundly in Bo5 series, what more do you want? Yarnc hasn't proven himself in BoXs against top Zergs. Calm proved himself agains the two "best" Zergs/ZvZers, yet you say Yarcn's a top player but Calm's not? What the hell?
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Wow, I had him winning against kwanro in the liquibet section, asshole just had to fuck around.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On August 21 2009 07:30 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
He beat Effort and Jaedong soundly in Bo5 series, what more do you want? Yarnc hasn't proven himself in BoXs against top Zergs. Calm proved himself agains the two "best" Zergs/ZvZers, yet you say Yarcn's a top player but Calm's not? What the hell?
Calm (!) down.
I confess, my opinion is purely subjective (thus an opinion) but I think Yarnc's mechanics are much stronger, and Calm's chances seem to decrease the longer the ZvZ goes.
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if a zvz doesnt go to hive tech, it wont be too interesting.
devourer + plague + hydralisks? awesome. offensive nydus? even more awesome.
i hope they do some secret expo stuff like that time someone hid a hatch in the top left just to mine gas.
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EPT
