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Can we get a "No Caster Bashing" note on SPL LR threads created? Similar to this topic (which was recent).
As to what types of posts are caster bashing? Caster bashing is attacking or insulting the casters without any valid feedback.
Saying "<x> and <y> sucks" would be caster bashing, while "<x> called out GG prematurely" is valid criticism.
Also saying <x> called out something wrong is fine too (as long as there aren't any unnecessary insults in it). Or saying they don't like a casters, casting style (like maybe if the caster hypes or underhypes a player too much), that's also fine. Finally if they say they'd prefer other casters, I'm fine with that too.
Despite that number of valid ways to talk about casters, there are still a lot of caster bashing (no valid feedback or criticism) in Proleague LR threads.
Here are some examples:
+ Show Spoiler +
1. This isn't a recent example but I remember a someone said the volume of the stream being low is good because that means you can hear less of the casters.
2. A more recent example is when someone said "Of course you don't know" in response to SMN not being sure if a specific player is in Code A or not. Though to be fair, I'm not sure if it was directed towards SMN or not but considering that was said just after SMN said that, it seemed that post was directed towards SMN.
3. I forgot how this post came about but I remember a post saying they wanted to bash the casters head or something (yes, there was a post about someone wanting the caster's head to be bashed -.-).
4. There are also more passive aggressive types post against the casters. I remember in a game where the casters made it sound like the game wasn't over yet (they were talking about options the player that was really far behind had but didn't outright say they had no chance of winning), they said maybe they were doing that to keep the game entertaining or maybe they honestly do not know and are incompetent. It's probably the latter.
The above (#4) is an example of a "potential" valid criticism of the casters (like they could have said that the casters should call the things out as they see it more instead of faking that both players have a chance) but the comment just turned into a bashful and negative post at the end (saying they casted that way because they probably did not know anything about the game and are incompetent).
Also I remember that specific game, it was obvious that it was the former and not the latter. Whiplash is Masters, he used to be GM Masters on NA at one point, and SMN is at least Diamond on the Korean server. They're definitely competent and know the game enough to know that the player was far behind.
They were just trying to keep the game entertaining in that case. Again, they could have talked about whether the casters should call things out as they see it instead of faking that both players still have a chance (it'd be valid criticism) but instead the post ended up being a bashful and negative post towards the casters.
Besides those examples, there are the simple "these casters don't know anything" or "these casters suck" type posts that crop out from time to time.
Even if it isn't just pure caster bashing, some "criticism" of casters seems like an excuse to attack them or being overly nit picky (bias towards specifically them and not anyone else).
I'm not sure if these count as bashing or not (but they're at least nitpicky or seemed specifically bias against the casters):
+ Show Spoiler +1. Someone complained (in an aggressive and negative way too) when the casters said they were 6 immortals instead of 7 immortals (which isn't that big of a deal). This is nitpicky and it's bias towards them (I rarely hear anyone complain when Tastosis calls a number wrong or something). 2. Another example is when someone called out SMN for saying "Yes, I'm right!" to Whiplash (the poster said it in an aggressive way to SMN, he said Whiplash knew he was wrong and that SMN should have waited for them to correct himself). That post seemed like an excuse to attack SMN because lots of casters do that with each other, it's a playful tease or their chemistry with each other... they're not bashing each other. It's like when Artosis sets up Tasteless with the "Ask me if you rather do this or do <something obviously better>, then Tasteless asks the question, then Artosis says "Of course you do <something obviously better>! Why would you ask me something so stupid and easy!". It's not that they're bashing each other but they're just teasing or joking with one another. Everyone know Tastosis don't bash each other. Another example (recent too) being both Axeltoss and Axslav in their MLG Winter Season Showdown (they do that sort of thing with each other too, like this for example (spoilers for MLG HotS Rain vs Flying, so don't click if you haven't watched it yet). It should be obvious that most casters do that with each other (they're not really bashing each other but just trying to be fun for the viewers). (Also it's not like SMN does that to Whiplash only. Both of them joke or tease each other to try to be fun for the viewers and most casters do that too.)
Now I know nitpicking about something or attacking something the casters do (when most casters do it too) is debatable and subjective (and I do agree that they are at least talking about a specific thing instead of just plainly bashing the casters), but even outside of those types of posts, there are still a decent amount of pure caster bashing posts in LR threads.
These types of posts are really unnecessary IMO. Plus, Whiplash reads TL, and SMN used to read TL until recently too (SMN used to post in PL LR threads also).
Overall, can we get a "No Caster Bashing" note on SPL LR threads created? Maybe it can help tone down some of the negative posts in the SPL LR threads.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37108 Posts
I'm curious, why does it bother you that people bash SNM and Whiplash?
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
because it's not nice and when half the thread is caster bashing rather than discussing the games, it makes the LR a bad experience
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I also find it annoying when people do that. Complaining about it on TL clearly isn't going to have any effect on who the casters are. Therefore, it's best that we just keep our disapproval to ourselves.
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On February 17 2013 16:24 opterown wrote:
because it's not nice and when half the thread is caster bashing rather than discussing the games, it makes the LR a bad experience
If this is the case, then maybe that is saying a lot about the SPL experience we have right now? It's not like we have any other place to talk about/give feedback to the casters (as their feedback thread got closed http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=394468).
I want to like the SPL, especially given its roots in BW, with a freakin awesome pool of players and teams. I really want to like it. I can't. Not with these casters. Actually its more just snm.
To swing away from being a purely caster bash, here's some explanation.
Snm just sounds stupid. That pretty much sums it up. Specifically, the way he talks is purely annoying, and I'm not talking about accents (I'm totally fine with any accents, ethnic or otherwise). He very often simply repeats Whiplash (and this is not just positive reinforcement as a co-caster, he literally just echos Whiplash a LOT). He can do this ridiculous 'infinite sentence' where he keeps going "blah blah blah AAAAANNNDDD blasldas AAAANNNDDDD asldnasld AAAANNNDDDDD askldasldkj AAAAAANNNDDDDD......." Again, he just sounds stupid. If you need more elaboration on what "stupid" sounds like, you obviously don't listen to the stream.
So yes opterown, would be nice to have a LR thread that's not half-full with caster bashing. So should we police the fuck out of the LR thread, or do something about the casters?
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As much as I give props for the casters for taking their time and casting the SPL, I do have to agree with maeldun (and 90% of the others watching the casts) that SNM is just plain annoying to listen to. I just mute the sound nowadays or watch the korean stream.
One could think that word has got to him that the general masses aren't happy with his casting, and that he would change accordingly.
We just have to wait and see I guess.
EDIT: However, on topic, this shouldn't be discussed in the LR thread. I think we have/had a thread for SNM/whiplash feedback? I seem to remember that it got closed due to much caster bashing, ironically 
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On February 18 2013 16:07 Maeldun wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2013 16:24 opterown wrote:
because it's not nice and when half the thread is caster bashing rather than discussing the games, it makes the LR a bad experience If this is the case, then maybe that is saying a lot about the SPL experience we have right now? It's not like we have any other place to talk about/give feedback to the casters (as their feedback thread got closed http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=394468). I want to like the SPL, especially given its roots in BW, with a freakin awesome pool of players and teams. I really want to like it. I can't. Not with these casters. Actually its more just snm. To swing away from being a purely caster bash, here's some explanation. Snm just sounds stupid. That pretty much sums it up. Specifically, the way he talks is purely annoying, and I'm not talking about accents (I'm totally fine with any accents, ethnic or otherwise). He very often simply repeats Whiplash (and this is not just positive reinforcement as a co-caster, he literally just echos Whiplash a LOT). He can do this ridiculous 'infinite sentence' where he keeps going "blah blah blah AAAAANNNDDD blasldas AAAANNNDDDD asldnasld AAAANNNDDDDD askldasldkj AAAAAANNNDDDDD......." Again, he just sounds stupid. If you need more elaboration on what "stupid" sounds like, you obviously don't listen to the stream. So yes opterown, would be nice to have a LR thread that's not half-full with caster bashing. So should we police the fuck out of the LR thread, or do something about the casters?
I think I'll quote the close reason on the feedback thread.
On January 29 2013 06:35 KadaverBB wrote:
I think we have had enough "feedback" for a while.
Thanks to the people who posted actual constructive criticism.
We will be contacting whiplash and discussing feedback options.
I think everyone gets it, you and many others don't like the casters. I don't blame you. However, what you said above has already been said before. There is no need to say it again on every LR thread.
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On February 17 2013 13:39 Seeker wrote:
I'm curious, why does it bother you that people bash SNM and Whiplash?
It's kind of like if someone goes into a thread and starts saying "fuck bitch fuck shit fuck fuck" instead of using real language. When there is so much real sound criticism you can give, and I mean literally millions of novels full of detailed lists of things that are wrong with the SPL casters, coming into a thread about the SPL and saying "these casters are terrible" is really no different than the excessive profanity example. You're just being lazy and not contributing.
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On February 19 2013 09:14 Chargelot wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2013 13:39 Seeker wrote:
I'm curious, why does it bother you that people bash SNM and Whiplash? It's kind of like if someone goes into a thread and starts saying "fuck bitch fuck shit fuck fuck" instead of using real language. When there is so much real sound criticism you can give, and I mean literally millions of novels full of detailed lists of things that are wrong with the SPL casters, coming into a thread about the SPL and saying "these casters are terrible" is really no different than the excessive profanity example. You're just being lazy and not contributing.
I won't say the caster bashing isn't obnoxious, just like balance whining, but there are reasons live report threads have traditionally lower standards. A lot of the point is to be swept up in the moment (it is live after all).
So I think it's okay that some of the consideration or effort people put into their posts is missing from LR threads. Stuff like caster bashing is a minor downside. Like balance whining, it fizzles out as people begin to realize that nobody's listening (well, nobody's listening on TL at least). Not everyone is a PL regular anyways, so you might get someone who's new to PL in a LR thread voicing his opinion about casters he's seen for the first time. Suppose he rattles off a gut reaction like "i dont really like this casters.. especially the one who can barley speak english." You can just scroll past it. LR threads can grow quite fast and it's not really necessary (or sometimes possible) to think about every post when you're mainly trying to follow the games. But then, something like "These fucking garbage casters shit hire Tastosis what the hell production value Proleague five dollar ticket entitled" is really a trash post in any context, so there's no reason to hold back moderating that.
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