Marvel Universe (Film) Discussion Thread - Page 11
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28267 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51335 Posts
Anyway :D With Disney trying to purchase Fox or about to, i hope it helps Marvel intergrate some more super heroes like X-Men or Fantastic 4 back into Avengers but i highly doubt that will happen and we all know what Disney wants. Many movies to make many money from regardless of story. Star Wars episode 8 just about killed everyone better than Thos ever could | ||
saocyn
United States937 Posts
On May 12 2018 03:37 Sentenal wrote: I think the only way to get X-Men in would be to have Mutants and Inhumans be the same thing. Inhumans are already a thing in the MCU, and got a lot of focus in Agents of SHIELD. Even had an invent where new Inhumans started to awaken to their powers all around the planet. Aside from the origins of Mutants vs the origins of Inhumans, its not like they are that different. Wouldn't be a clean inclusion, obviously, but its somewhat possible. I don't think it would be too difficult if they do decide to get into the multiverse. But yeah you are correct they're basically the same. But if I recall correctly, I remember somewhere in the Avengers comic or either I read it somewhere else, X-Men was a universe where evolution resulted in the natural mutation of superpowers (Correct me if I'm wrong cause I can't remember and haven't read/watched an X-Men related plot in forever) Some of it was even genetic.) and it played up a species born different but can't be accepted in society. I can't recall how wolverine's powers came about outside being experimented on, and dead pool being the same way. Whereas Marvel went about that as more of scientific curiosity gone wrong which resulted in said mutation and power. But yeah in both stories both did occur as a result of mutation or they were born differently something like that. Marvel so far kept it at "earth's Avengers, resulted in scientific advancement from earth" Captain America's power is from a secret experiment/injection, Ironman, Antman, black panther were suits. outside w/e ritual power from earth black panther got his power from. scarlet witch is experimentation with the power gem, and I don't know the story behind black widow and forgot hulks ironically but I'm sure Bruce banners was vaguely along those same lines. The only ones with unscientific power are like galactic godlings / demigods or gods. Shield is more like alien entities and then you have people who abuse alien artifacts / use alien artifacts to alter the human DNA. I haven't kept up with the series in 2 years though. On Captain Marvel I don't know if Brie can pull it off. I guess marvel could do it, and tested out the waters of lead female roles over the course of shield, but the only time they had a lead female role produced by marvel studios was Elektra. Perhaps wonder woman gave them confidence for how it could be done? but the task at hand is pretty huge, we're talking the leader of the new avengers squad basically....multiple reoccurring films will flop or not based on how well she pulls it off. I don't think wonder woman as a story is good enough to have a continuation in a story, seeing that they chose the god of war as THE end battle in her franchise, despite them pulling it off, that's a one-time thing to build that hero into reoccurring support roles. In a nut shell her importance would be similar to how RDJ and iron man's appearance is to build value. For whatever reason, her leaked photos in the outfit look NOTHING like the photoshop of her hero. | ||
WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On May 12 2018 03:53 Plansix wrote: Or they could just never justify it and just say mutants started cropping up due to all the Avengers + cosmic voodooOoOoOoOo. Where the powers came from was never the interesting part these stories anyways. Unless they're doing something like alternate-universe merging, that seems like a gigantically terrible mess. And Alt-Universe stories are giant messes in their own right. We really don't need another reboot of the X-Men and the whole mutantverse, especially when you strip away all the backstory that makes most of the cast interesting and start from year 0 in the new 10's. | ||
Sbrubbles
Brazil5763 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8780 Posts
On May 12 2018 03:51 Pandemona wrote: Awful actress and is only in the business because she failed hard at singing. But because she looks pretty she gets cast in big things which such is life i guess, but her personally i cannot stand. I can't talk for all of her performance, but I tought she did an amazing job in Room. Not exacly the same as playing a Marvel super hero of course. | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
And to be fair to the X-men plot, the NYPD constantly tries to arrest Spiderman and DareDevil. | ||
CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On May 12 2018 03:51 Pandemona wrote: Awful actress and is only in the business because she failed hard at singing. But because she looks pretty she gets cast in big things which such is life i guess, but her personally i cannot stand I'll pretend this section doesn't exist. :D On May 12 2018 04:03 saocyn wrote: I don't think it would be too difficult if they do decide to get into the multiverse. But yeah you are correct they're basically the same. But if I recall correctly, I remember somewhere in the Avengers comic or either I read it somewhere else, X-Men was a universe where evolution resulted in the natural mutation of superpowers (Correct me if I'm wrong cause I can't remember and haven't read/watched an X-Men related plot in forever) Some of it was even genetic.) and it played up a species born different but can't be accepted in society. I can't recall how wolverine's powers came about outside being experimented on, and dead pool being the same way. Yes and no. Mutants and Inhumans stem from the same source. Long story short, a race of near-omnipotent energy gods called the Celestials experimented on nascent species across the universe. Their aim was to grant them the potential to develop superpowers down the line. In theory, the races could progressively evolve in power and scope until they matched their creators (which was the Celestials' endgame). This ultimately succeeds in an unintentional manner, which the MCU can't address until the Fantastic Four are properly integrated into it. Your basic breakdown looks like this:
The Inhumans are a subset of humanity experimented on by the Kree after the Celestials came and went. Due to a bunch of comic-book contrivances that are best ignored, the Kree were basically stuck evolution-wise: no genotype mutations occurred in their children besides your standard recombination. Genetic engineering and other avenues compensated for a select few but the Kree had hit a dead end. So they tried to jump-start by using humans as a work-around. The result was the Inhumans, an offshoot group whose groups must be activated by an outside agent (a mutagen called Terrigen Mist, think of Agent Orange cranked up to 11). The good news is all Inhuman members have the capacity to gain powers; the bad news is the power-sets are random and lead to...issues. These two critical departures from mutants dictate all their major storylines stemming back to their original incarnations, and everything that has happened in the last 10-15 years in comic books. You can't combine mutants and Inhumans unless you're willing to work from scratch - their story arcs almost never overlap. On May 12 2018 04:03 saocyn wrote: On Captain Marvel I don't know if Brie can pull it off. I guess marvel could do it, and tested out the waters of lead female roles over the course of shield, but the only time they had a lead female role produced by marvel studios was Elektra. Perhaps wonder woman gave them confidence for how it could be done? but the task at hand is pretty huge, we're talking the leader of the new avengers squad basically....multiple reoccurring films will flop or not based on how well she pulls it off. I don't think wonder woman as a story is good enough to have a continuation in a story, seeing that they chose the god of war as THE end battle in her franchise, despite them pulling it off, that's a one-time thing to build that hero into reoccurring support roles. In a nut shell her importance would be similar to how RDJ and iron man's appearance is to build value. For whatever reason, her leaked photos in the outfit look NOTHING like the photoshop of her hero. Captain Marvel will have an even harder time establishing a place than Wonder Woman, who has a litany of hero-specific bad guys for solo stories as well as a long-established personality and a fan base who recognizes the title. Marvel has none of that to work from. Their sole support to lean against is a middling reboot. On a petty note, I far prefer the Ms. Marvel costume from the late 2000s. On May 12 2018 05:06 Sbrubbles wrote: Personally, I'd rather X-Men remain in their own universe. One of the most defining characteristics of their stories is that a lot of the public hates them, and this never really made sense in the context of there being a whole bunch of other superpowered humans running around doing their thing. ...what do you mean? Unlike heroes who are victims of circumstances, self-created or have their powers bestowed by outside entities, anyone on planet Earth can be a mutant. The possibility is built into their genetic code and outside of selective breeding, it's random. This can evoke more latent fear and apprehension in the average person than the existence of guys with random backstories for their superpowers. | ||
WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On May 12 2018 06:48 Plansix wrote: The magic of a world with a hidden nation ruled by a super power king that dresses like panther that no one knows about is it justifies that wolverine could have been running around going wolverine things the entire time and no one knew. And to be fair to the X-men plot, the NYPD constantly tries to arrest Spiderman and DareDevil. Wolverine is kind of the lowest of problems, considering his legit comic backstory is being a barely mentioned urban legend for over a century until he joins every Marvel team in the universe. It's the other core cast of mutants that need to be retconned in, which creates a giant elephant in the room. Plus it would require retconning Deadpool, which is just completely unacceptable. | ||
Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
On May 12 2018 07:08 CosmicSpiral wrote: I'll pretend this section doesn't exist. :D Yes and no. Mutants and Inhumans stem from the same source. Long story short, a race of near-omnipotent energy gods called the Celestials experimented on nascent species across the universe. Their aim was to grant them the potential to develop superpowers down the line. In theory, the races could progressively evolve in power and scope until they matched their creators (which was the Celestials' endgame). This ultimately succeeds in an unintentional manner, which the MCU can't address until the Fantastic Four are properly integrated into it. Your basic breakdown looks like this:
The Inhumans are a subset of humanity experimented on by the Kree after the Celestials came and went. Due to a bunch of comic-book contrivances that are best ignored, the Kree were basically stuck evolution-wise: no genotype mutations occurred in their children besides your standard recombination. Genetic engineering and other avenues compensated for a select few but the Kree had hit a dead end. So they tried to jump-start by using humans as a work-around. The result was the Inhumans, an offshoot group whose groups must be activated by an outside agent (a mutagen called Terrigen Mist, think of Agent Orange cranked up to 11). The good news is all Inhuman members have the capacity to gain powers; the bad news is the power-sets are random and lead to...issues. These two critical departures from mutants dictate all their major storylines stemming back to their original incarnations, and everything that has happened in the last 10-15 years in comic books. You can't combine mutants and Inhumans unless you're willing to work from scratch - their story arcs almost never overlap. . Agents of SHIELD had one of those Terrigen Crystals get broken up in the Ocean, and essentially contaminated the whole planet's water supply. It was broken up and diluted enough in the water that it wouldn't kill regular humans, but still present enough to cause Terrigenesis and produce powers in an Inhuman. The result of this in the show has Inhumans with super powers starting to pop up en mass all over the planet. With this happening, I could see the MCU introducing various Mutants, and just having them be Inhuman instead. Their origin is completely different from the Comic, but we already have some Mutants in the MCU like the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver, who aren't Mutants at all anymore, and Quake in Agents of Shield being an Inhuman (IIRC Daisy Johnson is a Mutant in the comics, right?). And there is a lot of public antagonism towards Inhumans as well, so I think it would be enough to work in at least some of the younger Mutants who don't need to have been around for 60 years doing things. | ||
WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On May 12 2018 07:50 Sentenal wrote: Agents of SHIELD had one of those Terrigen Crystals get broken up in the Ocean, and essentially contaminated the whole planet's water supply. It was broken up and diluted enough in the water that it wouldn't kill regular humans, but still present enough to cause Terrigenesis and produce powers in an Inhuman. The result of this in the show has Inhumans with super powers starting to pop up en mass all over the planet. With this happening, I could see the MCU introducing various Mutants, and just having them be Inhuman instead. Their origin is completely different from the Comic, but we already have some Mutants in the MCU like the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver, who aren't Mutants at all anymore, and Quake in Agents of Shield being an Inhuman (IIRC Daisy Johnson is a Mutant in the comics, right?). And there is a lot of public antagonism towards Inhumans as well, so I think it would be enough to work in at least some of the younger Mutants who don't need to have been around for 60 years doing things. Quake's an Inhuman in the comics. | ||
CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On May 12 2018 07:50 Sentenal wrote: Agents of SHIELD had one of those Terrigen Crystals get broken up in the Ocean, and essentially contaminated the whole planet's water supply. It was broken up and diluted enough in the water that it wouldn't kill regular humans, but still present enough to cause Terrigenesis and produce powers in an Inhuman. The result of this in the show has Inhumans with super powers starting to pop up en mass all over the planet. With this happening, I could see the MCU introducing various Mutants, and just having them be Inhuman instead. Their origin is completely different from the Comic, but we already have some Mutants in the MCU like the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver, who aren't Mutants at all anymore, and Quake in Agents of Shield being an Inhuman (IIRC Daisy Johnson is a Mutant in the comics, right?). And there is a lot of public antagonism towards Inhumans as well, so I think it would be enough to work in at least some of the younger Mutants who don't need to have been around for 60 years doing things. That's a rough facsimile of the Inhumanity crossover from 2013. Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver were acceptable changes because their origin has always been in flux. They were at various points either Magneto's children, creations of the High Evolutionary, or unconsciously siphoning powers from the Elder God Chthon. So altering them once again is part of the well-worn tradition. Daisy Johnson is an Inhuman whose powers were activated by her father instead of Terrigenesis. Sure, you can change Mercury, Dust, Sunspot, Loa, etc. to be Inhumans. They are relatively minor characters (well, not Sunspot anymore) who will be begrudgingly accepted. But that's because most casual comic book fans don't give a shit about them. If you're Marvel Studios, you're pondering how to reintroduce the big fish now that you have the rights back. And Wolverine, Cyclops, Jean Grey, Storm, Rogue, Gambit, Magneto, Apocalypse, Emma Frost, blah blah blah have always been mutants. | ||
WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
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CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5763 Posts
On May 12 2018 07:08 CosmicSpiral wrote: ...what do you mean? Unlike heroes who are victims of circumstances, self-created or have their powers bestowed by outside entities, anyone on planet Earth can be a mutant. The possibility is built into their genetic code and outside of selective breeding, it's random. This can evoke more latent fear and apprehension in the average person than the existence of guys with random backstories for their superpowers. What are you talking about? It's the superpower itself that creates the fear. It's the fear of a random superhero or villain exerting his will on you. My argument is that there is no defining physical trait that differentiates a mutant from everyone else, and being able to tell who's "in" the group and who's "out" is critical. Notice that almost every superhero can be retconned to have been a mutant all along. Captain America? Super serum activated his x-gene. Spider-Man? Same thing, but with the radioactive spider. Iron Man? Actually a super genius because of his power, like Forge. The same can be done the other way around. So how would a regular Joe be able to tell who's a mutant and who got his powers in some other way? He wouldn't. I'm not saying that it makes no sense for some heroes to be loved while others not, I'm saying the origin of the power is irrelevant when they can't be told apart. | ||
Leporello
United States2845 Posts
On May 12 2018 03:57 Liquid`Drone wrote: weird. I feel she's pretty plain looking by hollywood standards (so she's pretty, but less so than the average movie star), but a good actress. Won an oscar, too. A lot of ppl, myself included, were really hoping for Katheryn Winnick. She just looks exactly the part, and has done a lot of combat-acting in Vikings. + Show Spoiler + But Marvel Studios casting has done pretty well so far, and I certainly don't dislike Brie Larson. I'd guess the most important thing, to Marvel, is personality and humor. So they probably found something they like in Brie, and I wouldn't judge until the product is there. It sounds petty, but my biggest gripe so far from what I've seen of set-photos is Brie's hair. I kind of appreciate Captain Marvel's athletic hair-style. You're whipping through the wind, you're sweating -- you don't want a mass of hair hanging around your ears. At least tie it back. It's become a genuine pet-peeve whenever I see action scenes with long, flowing hair. Anyone who is doing anything athletic, and is used to having long hair, is going to tie that shit up. Even if you're Wonder Woman. | ||
saocyn
United States937 Posts
On May 12 2018 07:08 CosmicSpiral wrote: I'll pretend this section doesn't exist. :D Yes and no. Mutants and Inhumans stem from the same source. Long story short, a race of near-omnipotent energy gods called the Celestials experimented on nascent species across the universe. Their aim was to grant them the potential to develop superpowers down the line. In theory, the races could progressively evolve in power and scope until they matched their creators (which was the Celestials' endgame). This ultimately succeeds in an unintentional manner, which the MCU can't address until the Fantastic Four are properly integrated into it. Your basic breakdown looks like this:
The Inhumans are a subset of humanity experimented on by the Kree after the Celestials came and went. Due to a bunch of comic-book contrivances that are best ignored, the Kree were basically stuck evolution-wise: no genotype mutations occurred in their children besides your standard recombination. Genetic engineering and other avenues compensated for a select few but the Kree had hit a dead end. So they tried to jump-start by using humans as a work-around. The result was the Inhumans, an offshoot group whose groups must be activated by an outside agent (a mutagen called Terrigen Mist, think of Agent Orange cranked up to 11). The good news is all Inhuman members have the capacity to gain powers; the bad news is the power-sets are random and lead to...issues. These two critical departures from mutants dictate all their major storylines stemming back to their original incarnations, and everything that has happened in the last 10-15 years in comic books. You can't combine mutants and Inhumans unless you're willing to work from scratch - their story arcs almost never overlap. Captain Marvel will have an even harder time establishing a place than Wonder Woman, who has a litany of hero-specific bad guys for solo stories as well as a long-established personality and a fan base who recognizes the title. Marvel has none of that to work from. Their sole support to lean against is a middling reboot. On a petty note, I far prefer the Ms. Marvel costume from the late 2000s. ...what do you mean? Unlike heroes who are victims of circumstances, self-created or have their powers bestowed by outside entities, anyone on planet Earth can be a mutant. The possibility is built into their genetic code and outside of selective breeding, it's random. This can evoke more latent fear and apprehension in the average person than the existence of guys with random backstories for their superpowers. wonderful breakdown! I have come across the concept of celestials but i wasn't aware these other universes and worlds were a direct result of their experimentation! that's really cool to find out. I was always alluded to the fact celestials were space-dieties but were a band of scientist as well. Which event in the marvel universe timeline is this so i can read it? there's too many comics to read and could you recommend a few good arcs? i've read most of the infinity saga including the spin off chapters. on Another note - My Review of Captain Marvel - The Complete Collection. I just finished Jim Starlin's Captain's marvel. I don't quite know how i feel about it. It was more somber than exciting. While the writing is always on point as expected of Starlin, the story behind this one doesn't seem to entice me in the least, good but not memorable enough for me to get hyped for. Only the last scene of the arc was something that I believed was beautifully written when mar-vell is split from rick, Rick was notified of Mar-Vells cancer, but goes to avenger HQ to shout at everyone for being incapable of curing cancer despite their supernatural gifts and high intelligence. Plot-wise, Thanos attempting to grab the cosmic cube just seems like a poorer reiteration of his attempts at the infinity stones. If they attempted to show another movie with thano's new nefarious plans after the current movie we saw, it would feel like a cheesy dbz reboot and some new villain who wanted to grab the dragonballs. Only the back story of thano's past and how they showed the ancestry tree all the way up to diety kronos was the only thing compelling for me. On top of introducing Drax and his relationship to moondragon and her backstory. Captain marvel really just seemed like a Hero to introduce and setup the back story of other heroes... So what I'm confused about, is the exact order in the Marvel Universe Timeline where these events are occurring. I was under the impression Captain Marvel occurred BEFORE the first avengers. But in cinema, the order is reversed. I'm really confused in how they will attempt to weave Captain Marvel into the infinity wars saga when Captain Marvel is the first one to basically stop Thanos but with the cosmic cube...but then dies in the end to cancer... I really don't know how they're going to spin it, I'm guessing they'll re-write the entirety of it. Good luck on having Rick & marvel talk to each other about swapping out from the "Nega-World" (Abbreviated for negative-world for those who haven't read it, no i'm not a racist) lol. I can't see how basically the 2nd part of infinity war would end when you're depending on a person who loses half their strength at night. The ending being the most fluke ass pull ever...where him being turned old before death jumps on the discarded cube and judo chops it to victory. | ||
Leporello
United States2845 Posts
It occasionally references some obscure characters, especially towards the end. But you don't really need to know them. It does seek to explain a lot about the universe(s), the "cosmic beings", the celestials, Galactus, etc. The whole thing is kind of... in flux, though. Marvel kind of went a little haywire with the creation-stuff in the Secret Wars series, and they're trying to put the cat back in the bag. In the end, nothing feels concrete. It's all very subject-to-change. 22 comics between both series. Some of them are actually fun reads. And some really great artwork. edit: Honestly, one thing I really love about Infinity War and Guardians of the Galaxy and the MCU is they're able to go into these cosmic and god-like story-lines without feeling completely aloof of the real-world. Keeping things a mystery, simplifying the mythology a bit, and using allegory instead of trying to actually explain the universe. Whereas the comics... sometimes feels like they were written by a Scientologist. | ||
saocyn
United States937 Posts
On May 13 2018 05:00 Leporello wrote: If you want the breakdown on how the Marvel universe currently "works", The Ultimates (2015) and Ultimates 2 (2016) are where that kind of all gets put into place. It occasionally references some obscure characters, especially towards the end. But you don't really need to know them. It does seek to explain a lot about the universe(s), the "cosmic beings", the celestials, Galactus, etc. The whole thing is kind of... in flux, though. Marvel kind of went a little haywire with the creation-stuff in the Secret Wars series, and they're trying to put the cat back in the bag. In the end, nothing feels concrete. It's all very subject-to-change. 22 comics between both series. Some of them are actually fun reads. And some really great artwork. edit: Honestly, one thing I really love about Infinity War and Guardians of the Galaxy and the MCU is they're able to go into these cosmic and god-like story-lines without feeling completely aloof of the real-world. Keeping things a mystery, simplifying the mythology a bit, and using allegory instead of trying to actually explain the universe. Whereas the comics... sometimes feels like they were written by a Scientologist. Thanks for the recommendation this is definitely something I want to read. It would grant much-needed perspective into who's role is what, and who's related to who. I do agree with the introduction of these cosmic entities, though sometimes i feel being too aloof and too ambiguous is a variable that causes more problems than resolves, especially within the format of a cinematic movie with a time-frame you must meet. Not enough elaboration, backstory, and proper pacing of the infinity stones left me with an absolute disconnect in feeling the importance of it and why they needed to stop thanos. | ||
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