EPT[M][N] Mini Mafia: The (kinda) Vanilla Experience
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On October 20 2015 04:48 Xatalos wrote: (actually with the votecount tool it's easier without a seperate thread since you don't need to worry about posting phase cycle posts in another thread as well) Ah. I guess it's easier for hosts 100% of the time, 70% of the time then. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
Do you even lift | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On October 21 2015 02:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: It's a bit shame i can't ask BlazingHand to claim in this game. :/ I don't see why I wouldn't claim this game. It's just, the thing I'm claiming is going to be VT, since everyone is VT :D | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
So here's what happens 1) you all will follow me since I'm the best player here 2) I will lynch the guy via RNG as determined by this post (the one you're reading right now)'s sitewide post count modulo 13. Since so many people are posting at once on TL it's impossible for us to know what's going down. Basically, in addition to a "what post in this thread" post ID, each post has a unique sitewide id # that's increasing so quickly because of TL traffic, I can use it to RNG effectively. I've done this before. It works. If you don't know what "modulo" means or how my rng lynch works after this explanation, you are not mathematically and educationally qualified to claim that this lynch is not RNG. Historically, people have objected to my RNG strategy by arguing that RNG is a bad idea, NOT that my RNG doesn't work. Everyone agrees: my RNG works and is transparently RNG. If you think this isn't a true unbiased RNG, i PROMISE you you're just wrong or don't understand what's happening here. Player list and rules are laid out in this post, which is written before I know what its sitewide post ID will be, which means this is a true RNG. Believe it. For RNG, this post will be used for generating a random lynch. The # in the upper left corner can be right-clicked and used to access the absolute TL post # for this post. That number mod 9 is the random lynch. 1 =Oats, 2 = rayn, etc, all the way up to 8 = holyflare and 0 = sloosh. The reason we use the absolute TL post number is that posts are constantly being made, so the number is truly random. We turn it into a number 1-14 by taking that number mod 14. What is mod? effectively, it's the remainder after division. For example. 13 mod 14 = 13. 14 mod 14 = 0. 18 mod 14 = 4. 19 mod 14 = 5. and so on. Basically, this generates a random number 1 through 14. I am in favor of the random lynch (though am somewhat interested in a policy lynch today as well-- TL does not do this enough. I will start off by voting for the random lynched based on THIS POST. In this case, 1 = marv 2 = Vivax etc etc all the way up to 12 = ritoky 0 = yamato77 (since a multiple of 13 modulo 13 is 0, not 13, we end with 0). Player List 1. marvellosity 2. Vivax 3. Blazinghand 4. gumshoe 5. GlowingBear 6. Hopeless1der 7. raynpelikoneet 8. Xatalos 9. Onegu 10. Chromatically 11. Alakaslam 12. ritoky 0. yamato77 there is no force on earth that can persuade me that RNG lynch is sub-optimal. bow before the RNG lynch. behold its glory and its horror and all of its majesty | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
24999098 mod 13 = 7 7th player is rayn ##vote raynpelikoneet rayn, your lynch has been determined by RNG. SUBMIT YOURSELF UNTO DEATH. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On October 22 2015 06:24 Blazinghand wrote: The Post count for my RNG declaration post was 24999098 24999098 mod 13 = 7 7th player is rayn ##vote raynpelikoneet rayn, your lynch has been determined by RNG. SUBMIT YOURSELF UNTO DEATH. EBWOP | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On October 22 2015 06:24 Blazinghand wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24999098 The Post count for my RNG declaration post was 24999098 24999098 mod 13 = 7 7th player is rayn ##vote raynpelikoneet rayn, your lynch has been determined by RNG. SUBMIT YOURSELF UNTO DEATH. EBWOP again you get the idea | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On October 22 2015 06:28 Vivax wrote: What's modulo again? Like in this case the 13th square root of that shitty number? Modulo is best thought of as "where do we roll over and become 0" For example, all numbers you think of normally are "modulo 10" We go "1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0" right? now with modulo instead we go "1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 0" Another way of looking at it is "modulo = remainder in division" So for example, 16 modulo 13 would be 16 / 13, which is "1 remainder 3" and we grab that remainder it's a way of taking a randomly generated integer (like absolute post count) and splitting it into an evenly spaced probability of a bunch of other andom integers. So I get a random number between 0 and 12 by taking the random post count and modulo 13ing it | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On October 22 2015 06:28 Xatalos wrote: I'd say that's more like pseudo-pseudo-random though. It's not really as sophisticated as something like the Random class in Java. I'll give you that it's somewhat good in the sense that you can "prove" it's not just some number you made up, even if it's not exactly fully random. In the end, I think we're utterly doomed if we can't make a better than RNG lynch with this list of players.... It could be somehow feasible if the players were mostly inactive to get things rolling (lol) I mean, it is "psuedo-random", but calling it that doesn't actually say anything negative about its use here. It's like noting that a dice roll isn't always perfectly random, or that it's really hard to generate randomness using computer. Sure, the Random class in Java isn't great, and maybe this is less random, but still this is SUPER random, so random you'd have to do it probably hundreds of thousands of time before there was a problem, or alternatively, due it a few hundred times per second or something. It's random enough taht it's already way more random than it needs to be, and unlike literally all other attempts at RNG, it's provably not influenced by me. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On October 22 2015 06:30 Chromatically wrote: BH, you talk a lot about why your lynch is random but not at all about why we should follow it. I have to first establish that it *is* random (and this is harder than you might think given how much people know about math) before explaining why. Now here's why: I'm offering a 3/13 (23%) change to lynch scum, right here. that's a really good chance! We don't have blue claims to fall back on or mayoral elections or whatever, and we don't have coaches or power roles that activate during D1. This is all vanilla. Historicdally TL towns only barely beat RNG anyways, and although we are a strong group of players, unless the scumteam is like chrom ritoky marv (no offense marv, but you know as well as I do...) then the scumteam is ALSO strong. So we need to defeat their strength with our own resolution resolution to RNG 23% success rate | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On October 22 2015 06:38 Xatalos wrote: Why does marv being in the scumteam make it weak? :D He has been super fatigued of rolling scum since he rolled scum for several games in a row. In the last game or two he rolled scum, he barely played and complained about wanting to be town. This game, if Marv is scum, he'll probably say/do nothing. If he's town expect him to be excited and energized about finally being able to be town and "recharge his batteries". Contrast Scum Marv that's on his game, who busts out hecka sweet moves. Marv's alignment should be obvious this game, even after he reads this post from me. On October 22 2015 06:38 Xatalos wrote: Anyways I was under the impression that TL towns have mostly beaten RNG in recent years. in general, maybe, but 1. Not by much 2. the reasons I laid out (skilled scum players, vanilla setup without extra townies, etc) all apply here 3. even in setups where town does have these advantages, RNG is still a good idea. Why don't we sit down and discuss rayn's play so far? Is anyone else suspicious of his lack of contribution? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On October 22 2015 06:44 ritoky wrote: bh sleeping on me winning 6 of my 7 games as mafia on these forums made me die a little inside. Okay if you're good at scum then that's even MORE argument for RNG! almost everyone here is good at scum! We'll never catch them D1 without lynching raynpelikoneet thanks for your support voting raynpelikoneet look, he's lurking even now, let's vote him | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On October 22 2015 06:51 Xatalos wrote: Hahaha... Really rock solid reasoning :D It'd be funny if he came online and saw a big wagon on himself immediately. Just for that, I might even vote for him. Honestly I kinda want to get the wagon rolling just for that (he would be SO mad hueheue), but it's probably more reasonably to let rayn make a token defense before we lynch him | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On October 22 2015 06:55 Vivax wrote: I'm always open to getting people to have WTF moments. ##Unvote ##Vote rayn yesss, yessssssssss give in to the darkness, and don't forget the voting thread | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On October 22 2015 07:15 gumshoe wrote: Bh, question, if your town please be honest : D were you planning this from the get go? Did you have your post pre written? When did you conceive the idea to use the random tl tag info? Would you have done this if you were mafia? if this was all pre thought up (which it seems to me it was) than it might not be any better than a glorified "hi, im town." not that this at all detracts from your argument for rng(which has it's convincing points but I still feel is a last resort) it's the possibility of you using this opening banter as an aegis that worries mah / : "From the get go" --> I wasn't particularly thinking of using RNG, but it's one of my most useful tools for hunting and lynching scum. I'd say I use it more often than not nowadays when I play. When the game started, I was like "you know what would be great here? Given the setup and the player list, this is perfect for RNG" and then I did it. "pre written" --> I copied/pasted it from the last time I used RNG, then filled in the names and list size from this game. The second RNG post where I announced the result, I also copied/pasted, so in a sense, yes, this was prewritten "when did you think of random tl tag info?" --> I first thought of this idea in September of 2013, and I used it for the first time in November 2013. Since then I've used it probably 5-10 times in games here on TL. "would you have done this if you were mafia?" --> the answer to this question is always "yes". I'm willing to lie, cheat, steal, doctor photographs, put items in boxes, fake plane tickets, pretend to have depression, a death in the family, etc, whatever it takes to win regardless of alignment. I'm one of the few players that does not pull punches as mafia. So yes, as mafia, I'd be fully willing to RNG if I percieved it to be a good idea (which it isn't; I've outlined why RNG is pro-town this game) | ||
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