• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:03
CEST 11:03
KST 18:03
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters9[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism8Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?124Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)9Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over3New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!46
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism SC4ALL: II Winner will earn a spot at HSC 30! SC4ALL II: StarCraft 2 Player Announcement 7/8 Nexon wins bid to develop StarCraft IP content, distribute Overwatch mobile game Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)
Tourneys
IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly 2026 GSTL Announcement Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 542 The Ascended Mutation # 541 Binary Choice The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 540 Dodge This
Brood War
General
[D] Brainstorming a balance patch for Brood war Terran or Protoss Practice Partners (Official) BW General Discussion Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?
Tourneys
Escore Tournament - Season 3 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro16 Group A
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread EVE Corporation Diablo IV [Maplestory Hardcore] Let's Play~!! General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Virtual Romance, Real-Life C…
TrAiDoS
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6618 users

[H] TvP Madness....

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Pirfiktshon
Profile Joined June 2013
United States1072 Posts
January 02 2014 03:59 GMT
#1
Ok, So this is my first time posting a Rep.

This time I'm a little confused its a TvP match.

There is many things I could point out about this match.... Some things I never do normally but I tried a New Strat and I look at this match and I just am Baffled...... the utility that This toss gets out of his DTs is ridiculous.....

I'm asking for some serious help anyone in GM / High Masters because TvP is my worst m/u and I suck nuts at it recently

It's one of those situations where you thought you knew how to handle stuff but I don't know that scouting any of his ridiculous bases would have mattered or my initial push killing his army then killing probes woul dhave mattered or Taking an earlier 4th would have mattered this game was just Nuts like brings out the something I don't know.

If anyone is obliged to help that would be nice.

http://ggtracker.com/matches/4555713
Ravomat
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany422 Posts
January 02 2014 04:50 GMT
#2
I play protoss and I actually only see 2 things you did wrong though I stopped watching at 16min when he started spamming nexii.

The first mistake is your reaper chilling at the watchtower. There is absolutely no reason he should be there. Together with an SCV you could and should have scouted the entire map (at least on this map you can scout everything in time). You'd have found the dark shrine and taken it out later.

Your second mistake was sacrificing your army for a nexus. There are circumstances where this is an acceptable move though this wasn't one of them. Your opponent played so greedily that you are behind in every way after that. He built a quick 3rd and went double forge while going robo and charge all off 2 gates. He only had 3 gates ready when you attacked which you didn't know. So you see, you cannot sacrifice your army like you did. Ah, and of course moving your army behind the geysers would have helped a lot in doing a little more damage.

Another thing to notice when you attacked, one of his gates wasn't transformed and was built in a way to block your movement and to draw fire should you a-move. If you see this, you know he is low on units.

It wasn't his DTs that won the game.
SirPinky
Profile Joined February 2011
United States525 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-02 09:23:02
January 02 2014 09:04 GMT
#3
On January 02 2014 13:50 Ravomat wrote:
I play protoss and I actually only see 2 things you did wrong though I stopped watching at 16min when he started spamming nexii.

The first mistake is your reaper chilling at the watchtower. There is absolutely no reason he should be there. Together with an SCV you could and should have scouted the entire map (at least on this map you can scout everything in time). You'd have found the dark shrine and taken it out later.

Your second mistake was sacrificing your army for a nexus. There are circumstances where this is an acceptable move though this wasn't one of them. Your opponent played so greedily that you are behind in every way after that. He built a quick 3rd and went double forge while going robo and charge all off 2 gates. He only had 3 gates ready when you attacked which you didn't know. So you see, you cannot sacrifice your army like you did. Ah, and of course moving your army behind the geysers would have helped a lot in doing a little more damage.

Another thing to notice when you attacked, one of his gates wasn't transformed and was built in a way to block your movement and to draw fire should you a-move. If you see this, you know he is low on units.

It wasn't his DTs that won the game.


This is a classic example of where it is easy to criticize a Terran for not scouting: He scouted the FE. Could he have gone all over the map with Scv, reapers, scanning? Sure. But why is it that Toss never needed to move out of his base - in fact, the first time he "scouts" is attacking with DT. I just love the comments, "My god man! Why didn't you scout every inch of the map for the proxy...that is why you lost!" The reason he lost is coin-flip - this is what the match as become. If i scout 1gate, 2-gas Protoss....lets see what it can be: Proxy DT, Proxy Blink, Proxy Oracle, Proxy Immortal, Proxy Void Ray...let me know what I missed.

To the Terran: My best recommendation at this point is to do what I do: Fast gas into double helion production: It scouts the base while seeing their BO and can destroy the mineral line if they are greedy. Then produce mines after 2-4 helions w/ starport for drop or oracle defense and transition to mech. My ratio is far higher with mech these days than bio.

-Pinky
5x GM WoL (P)
Master T Hots

Note: LOL I'm not one to comment about APM (b/c i play mech around 120) but the Toss here has 85 apm average on 30 minute game and is somehow ranked 130th in NA Masters.

User was warned for this post
How much better to get wisdom than gold; to get insight rather than silver!
Ravomat
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany422 Posts
January 02 2014 10:57 GMT
#4
Take your balance whining to the appropriate threads. You're not helping at all. You don't even refer to anything that happened in the game.

A reaper that is not moving is useless at this point in the game, because what else is he doing? Absolutely nothing. Might as well scout somewhere with it. Also I was specifically referring to the map when I said he could, not necessarily needed to, scout it completely with reaper+SCV. Obviously doesn't work on every map.

On January 02 2014 18:04 SirPinky wrote:
Note: LOL I'm not one to comment about APM (b/c i play mech around 120) but the Toss here has 85 apm average on 30 minute game and is somehow ranked 130th in NA Masters.


What the hell is this hypocrisy? You just made yourself look like a total jackass.

Pirfiktshon
Profile Joined June 2013
United States1072 Posts
January 02 2014 12:37 GMT
#5
I dont think either one of you understand whats going on in this match T.T
Ok i could have scouted more but where is my damage potential .... his dts force scans 270 mins and he waant dumb enough to send all his dts at once and terrans suggested strat is a huuuuuggggeee risk
There has to be a fundemental flaw someone who knows the match up give me a heads up
partydude89
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
1850 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-02 16:53:07
January 02 2014 12:39 GMT
#6
A few notes as i'm watching the game

-That was a very common proxy location by him, and belshir isn't that hard of a map to scout. so you should of been more active with the reaper

- at like 14:00 minutes or so you load up 2 full medivacs in full view of the watchtower and end up losing them for free

-you try to engage him at 19:30 with only 4 vikings vs 5 collosus. you should wait before you fight, as your currently making ghosts and have none in your army. you eat a few storms as a result, and are now down on supply

-zero map awareness except when your dropping/moving out. for most of the game the watchtowers were there without any units in them. very easy to take w/ one marine. .

-you scouted his 4th base at 17:00 , yet your only trying to take your 4th base at 24:00 minutes.your essentially allin.



#1 Official Hack Fan|#2 Bomber behind Wintex.|Curious|Life|Flash|TY|Cure|Maru|sOs|Jin Air Green Wings fighting!|SBENU Fighting!|
Pirfiktshon
Profile Joined June 2013
United States1072 Posts
January 02 2014 13:24 GMT
#7
Ok ty party dude that makes a ton more sense usually i recognize these things but i think i was to busy raging at myself because while i know i can play better i just couldnt think of a way i could win
Ravomat
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany422 Posts
January 02 2014 13:38 GMT
#8
On January 02 2014 21:37 Pirfiktshon wrote:
I dont think either one of you understand whats going on in this match T.T
Ok i could have scouted more but where is my damage potential .... his dts force scans 270 mins and he waant dumb enough to send all his dts at once and terrans suggested strat is a huuuuuggggeee risk
There has to be a fundemental flaw someone who knows the match up give me a heads up


Wow, thanks for not even trying to understand what I said. Your damage potential is your army. You threw that one right into a meat grinder which allowed protoss to do whatever he wanted. Coincidental that's what he did anyway, so you pretty much lost at the 10min mark unless he had done the same, because at that time he just had more of everything. He just toyed with you after that.
Pirfiktshon
Profile Joined June 2013
United States1072 Posts
January 02 2014 15:15 GMT
#9
I understood but your comment was made without realizing even if i did scout everything did i take alot of damage from dts .... no and the thing that killed my attack force was dts so how could i have done damage with this opener your statements seem like a low level analysis and is only preface witj bias much like the other poster that said use a different opener that you heavily scrutinized lol
nottapro
Profile Joined August 2012
202 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-02 16:54:41
January 02 2014 16:49 GMT
#10
You played well, playing way too much in the dark though. Biggest things I can see were not scouting during the game for expansions and army position, sending one or two marines out on a scouting mission should be a habit, every couple of minutes.

The second thing which hurt you was not microing your units during the first attack. Target firing the nexus seemed ok at first, but it seemed like you could been slightly less committal cancelled that order, stutter stepped, killed the zealots and then continued to attack it and then run away. I can see why it seemed like a good decision while you were in the dark about the other expansion, so really this is more of a scouting mistake again.

Lastly, the 18+min big engagement was also a bit of an overreach, easy to make, in hindsight it seems like you were too eager to attack. Being more cautious is usually better, a temporary retreat to assess the situation can be game winning, especially after getting hit with two big storms. When he started retreating, it would have been better to send only a small group ahead of your army to try and capitalize on his mistakes and keep the highground. Then you could have captured the watch tower, heal up a bit, get more info on your opponents army composition and position and then decide between a full engagement or drop harass.

In short, try to develop better scouting habits during the mid and late game. Send out one or two marines to shift click search the map while you are macroing, you dont need to pay attention to them, only if they find something or die. Try to squeeze as much damage out of your early push as possible. And develop a habit of always sending a smaller group ahead of your army before committing.
Ravomat
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany422 Posts
January 02 2014 18:01 GMT
#11
You took some damage, not a lot. Also you killed 4 probes earlier, so it was 4-7 in that regard. Add to that while your kills were earlier and therefor more valuable and your losses preventable, at least most of them if you're quick enough. Basically that means you're even. I already regret trying to help.

Yea, DTs killed your army, because apparently you don't kite. If you did you would have won right there. Conc shell helps there which you forgot until 12:30. As a fact you donated your army and donating an army to someone playing insanely greedy generally loses you the game. Figure out how you get more out of your units. Was it necessary to kill that nexus as quickly as possible without knowing what the hell was going on? Would it have been beneficial if you kept your army alive and waited for medivacs (after poking obviously)? Is it necessary to lose your army to DTs? The answer to the last question is "no". Ask yourself a couple of questions and comeback to tell me how low level my analysis is. You were supposed to take a game winning advantage (kill 3 DTs, MSC, both forges, half of his gateways and a bunch of probes) if not outright kill him.

Also your timings didn't feel right. You might wanna check on that.
Pirfiktshon
Profile Joined June 2013
United States1072 Posts
January 02 2014 18:13 GMT
#12
Well see now thats useful ^^.... will take this into consideration
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 57m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
OGKoka 112
StarCraft: Brood War
EffOrt 187
Soma 185
Dewaltoss 75
yabsab 35
hero 13
NotJumperer 12
ajuk12(nOOB) 10
Counter-Strike
byalli1228
olofmeister1070
shoxiejesuss931
Other Games
summit1g18115
ceh9606
singsing447
KnowMe149
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 22
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 2
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2124
League of Legends
• Stunt301
Upcoming Events
Escore
57m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
1h 57m
CranKy Ducklings
1d
WardiTV Invitational
1d 1h
Cure vs Zoun
SHIN vs Classic
ByuN vs MaxPax
Percival vs YoungYakov
OSC
1d 11h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
2 days
Spirit vs Mixu
Clem vs TBD
RSL Revival
2 days
Serral vs Rogue
BlizzCon
2 days
IdrA vs MC
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
GSL
4 days
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
KCM Race Survival
6 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-09-10
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Escore Tournament S3: King of Kings
RSL Revival: Season 6
Calamity Invitational
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSA
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.