|
United States1072 Posts
Ok, So this is my first time posting a Rep.
This time I'm a little confused its a TvP match.
There is many things I could point out about this match.... Some things I never do normally but I tried a New Strat and I look at this match and I just am Baffled...... the utility that This toss gets out of his DTs is ridiculous.....
I'm asking for some serious help anyone in GM / High Masters because TvP is my worst m/u and I suck nuts at it recently 
It's one of those situations where you thought you knew how to handle stuff but I don't know that scouting any of his ridiculous bases would have mattered or my initial push killing his army then killing probes woul dhave mattered or Taking an earlier 4th would have mattered this game was just Nuts like brings out the something I don't know.
If anyone is obliged to help that would be nice.
http://ggtracker.com/matches/4555713
|
I play protoss and I actually only see 2 things you did wrong though I stopped watching at 16min when he started spamming nexii.
The first mistake is your reaper chilling at the watchtower. There is absolutely no reason he should be there. Together with an SCV you could and should have scouted the entire map (at least on this map you can scout everything in time). You'd have found the dark shrine and taken it out later.
Your second mistake was sacrificing your army for a nexus. There are circumstances where this is an acceptable move though this wasn't one of them. Your opponent played so greedily that you are behind in every way after that. He built a quick 3rd and went double forge while going robo and charge all off 2 gates. He only had 3 gates ready when you attacked which you didn't know. So you see, you cannot sacrifice your army like you did. Ah, and of course moving your army behind the geysers would have helped a lot in doing a little more damage.
Another thing to notice when you attacked, one of his gates wasn't transformed and was built in a way to block your movement and to draw fire should you a-move. If you see this, you know he is low on units.
It wasn't his DTs that won the game.
|
On January 02 2014 13:50 Ravomat wrote:
I play protoss and I actually only see 2 things you did wrong though I stopped watching at 16min when he started spamming nexii.
The first mistake is your reaper chilling at the watchtower. There is absolutely no reason he should be there. Together with an SCV you could and should have scouted the entire map (at least on this map you can scout everything in time). You'd have found the dark shrine and taken it out later.
Your second mistake was sacrificing your army for a nexus. There are circumstances where this is an acceptable move though this wasn't one of them. Your opponent played so greedily that you are behind in every way after that. He built a quick 3rd and went double forge while going robo and charge all off 2 gates. He only had 3 gates ready when you attacked which you didn't know. So you see, you cannot sacrifice your army like you did. Ah, and of course moving your army behind the geysers would have helped a lot in doing a little more damage.
Another thing to notice when you attacked, one of his gates wasn't transformed and was built in a way to block your movement and to draw fire should you a-move. If you see this, you know he is low on units.
It wasn't his DTs that won the game.
This is a classic example of where it is easy to criticize a Terran for not scouting: He scouted the FE. Could he have gone all over the map with Scv, reapers, scanning? Sure. But why is it that Toss never needed to move out of his base - in fact, the first time he "scouts" is attacking with DT. I just love the comments, "My god man! Why didn't you scout every inch of the map for the proxy...that is why you lost!" The reason he lost is coin-flip - this is what the match as become. If i scout 1gate, 2-gas Protoss....lets see what it can be: Proxy DT, Proxy Blink, Proxy Oracle, Proxy Immortal, Proxy Void Ray...let me know what I missed.
To the Terran: My best recommendation at this point is to do what I do: Fast gas into double helion production: It scouts the base while seeing their BO and can destroy the mineral line if they are greedy. Then produce mines after 2-4 helions w/ starport for drop or oracle defense and transition to mech. My ratio is far higher with mech these days than bio.
-Pinky
5x GM WoL (P)
Master T Hots
Note: LOL I'm not one to comment about APM (b/c i play mech around 120) but the Toss here has 85 apm average on 30 minute game and is somehow ranked 130th in NA Masters.
User was warned for this post
|
Take your balance whining to the appropriate threads. You're not helping at all. You don't even refer to anything that happened in the game.
A reaper that is not moving is useless at this point in the game, because what else is he doing? Absolutely nothing. Might as well scout somewhere with it. Also I was specifically referring to the map when I said he could, not necessarily needed to, scout it completely with reaper+SCV. Obviously doesn't work on every map.
On January 02 2014 18:04 SirPinky wrote:
Note: LOL I'm not one to comment about APM (b/c i play mech around 120) but the Toss here has 85 apm average on 30 minute game and is somehow ranked 130th in NA Masters.
What the hell is this hypocrisy? You just made yourself look like a total jackass.
|
United States1072 Posts
I dont think either one of you understand whats going on in this match T.T
Ok i could have scouted more but where is my damage potential .... his dts force scans 270 mins and he waant dumb enough to send all his dts at once and terrans suggested strat is a huuuuuggggeee risk
There has to be a fundemental flaw someone who knows the match up give me a heads up
|
A few notes as i'm watching the game
-That was a very common proxy location by him, and belshir isn't that hard of a map to scout. so you should of been more active with the reaper
- at like 14:00 minutes or so you load up 2 full medivacs in full view of the watchtower and end up losing them for free
-you try to engage him at 19:30 with only 4 vikings vs 5 collosus. you should wait before you fight, as your currently making ghosts and have none in your army. you eat a few storms as a result, and are now down on supply
-zero map awareness except when your dropping/moving out. for most of the game the watchtowers were there without any units in them. very easy to take w/ one marine. .
-you scouted his 4th base at 17:00 , yet your only trying to take your 4th base at 24:00 minutes.your essentially allin.
|
United States1072 Posts
Ok ty party dude that makes a ton more sense usually i recognize these things but i think i was to busy raging at myself because while i know i can play better i just couldnt think of a way i could win
|
On January 02 2014 21:37 Pirfiktshon wrote:
I dont think either one of you understand whats going on in this match T.T
Ok i could have scouted more but where is my damage potential .... his dts force scans 270 mins and he waant dumb enough to send all his dts at once and terrans suggested strat is a huuuuuggggeee risk
There has to be a fundemental flaw someone who knows the match up give me a heads up
Wow, thanks for not even trying to understand what I said. Your damage potential is your army. You threw that one right into a meat grinder which allowed protoss to do whatever he wanted. Coincidental that's what he did anyway, so you pretty much lost at the 10min mark unless he had done the same, because at that time he just had more of everything. He just toyed with you after that.
|
United States1072 Posts
I understood but your comment was made without realizing even if i did scout everything did i take alot of damage from dts .... no and the thing that killed my attack force was dts so how could i have done damage with this opener your statements seem like a low level analysis and is only preface witj bias much like the other poster that said use a different opener that you heavily scrutinized lol
|
You played well, playing way too much in the dark though. Biggest things I can see were not scouting during the game for expansions and army position, sending one or two marines out on a scouting mission should be a habit, every couple of minutes.
The second thing which hurt you was not microing your units during the first attack. Target firing the nexus seemed ok at first, but it seemed like you could been slightly less committal cancelled that order, stutter stepped, killed the zealots and then continued to attack it and then run away. I can see why it seemed like a good decision while you were in the dark about the other expansion, so really this is more of a scouting mistake again.
Lastly, the 18+min big engagement was also a bit of an overreach, easy to make, in hindsight it seems like you were too eager to attack. Being more cautious is usually better, a temporary retreat to assess the situation can be game winning, especially after getting hit with two big storms. When he started retreating, it would have been better to send only a small group ahead of your army to try and capitalize on his mistakes and keep the highground. Then you could have captured the watch tower, heal up a bit, get more info on your opponents army composition and position and then decide between a full engagement or drop harass.
In short, try to develop better scouting habits during the mid and late game. Send out one or two marines to shift click search the map while you are macroing, you dont need to pay attention to them, only if they find something or die. Try to squeeze as much damage out of your early push as possible. And develop a habit of always sending a smaller group ahead of your army before committing.
|
You took some damage, not a lot. Also you killed 4 probes earlier, so it was 4-7 in that regard. Add to that while your kills were earlier and therefor more valuable and your losses preventable, at least most of them if you're quick enough. Basically that means you're even. I already regret trying to help.
Yea, DTs killed your army, because apparently you don't kite. If you did you would have won right there. Conc shell helps there which you forgot until 12:30. As a fact you donated your army and donating an army to someone playing insanely greedy generally loses you the game. Figure out how you get more out of your units. Was it necessary to kill that nexus as quickly as possible without knowing what the hell was going on? Would it have been beneficial if you kept your army alive and waited for medivacs (after poking obviously)? Is it necessary to lose your army to DTs? The answer to the last question is "no". Ask yourself a couple of questions and comeback to tell me how low level my analysis is. You were supposed to take a game winning advantage (kill 3 DTs, MSC, both forges, half of his gateways and a bunch of probes) if not outright kill him.
Also your timings didn't feel right. You might wanna check on that.
|
United States1072 Posts
Well see now thats useful ^^.... will take this into consideration 
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
