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/in
If you still need one. Otherwise, I can replace
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Not much to go on without wild speculation on people's meta connections and personalities.
From posting interval as it relates to content, I like Geript less. He was pushing a little too hard too fast for either pure pressure or getting anything out of his read if he had one, while still posting at methodical, relatively slow intervals.
He did get to DP to be able to read him very early but it feels mostly like pushing buttons and corresponding reactions to me. Barring any history of reckless responses as scum on DP's part for context, DP feels most likely town. Geript could possibly be scum with one overplayed line DP picked up on, then feeling like he was forced to keep going somewhat like he was. However, it's still more likely to be town on town to me so far.
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On September 21 2013 19:04 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 17:39 ObviousOne wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 21 2013 17:27 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 16:31 ObviousOne wrote:On September 21 2013 16:30 VisceraEyes wrote: Relevant: Pandain votes geript prior to posting in thread. Hello town VE! I don't understand what you are implying with 'hello town VE'. If you think it is town of VE to bring this to the thread; why are you giving me shit for making pandain observations? If you are being sarcastic; why do you think it is insignifcant that Pandain votes without thread presence? Explain.P.S. i was expecting over the past 25min or so, for you to be querying me. Considering you "read the game twice"; tried to cast me as a villain along with Koshi; and then made a hoo-haa about wanting to talk to me. Im off; but would like an answer to the above. VE said he was going to bed. Then he presumably couldn't sleep. [Scum sleep very well FYI] QED he's town! You picked on Pandain and then said goodbye. Then you came back wondering why I was picking on you for what you deemed to be similar. [Also this hit and run tactic you're playing is disconcerting] QED you're less town than VE! I don't know if you're scum but I certainly don't have a town read on you based on what you've done so far. Your answer about it being a binary idea threw me off, I thought there would be something more to it, so I am not really satisfied with the answer. Then again, I didn't really expect an intricate answer either, so I'm still confused: Why Pandain, what made Pandain special that you sought to look him up / keep tabs on him based on the pre-game? Did you just notice it to bring it up? Correct. Show nested quote +Was there a motivation or other information you have that leads you to believe that Pandain is someone worth paying attention to right at the beginning of the game? If I thought he was worth paying absolute attention to, I would have put a vote. It was an observation, to prompt him to contribute. It worked somewhat. He laid an unjustified vote. Show nested quote +We have more information now since some time has passed, so I'm mostly curious about what it was at that point in time that had you preoccupied with him. When I came back to the thread, and started skimming because everyone sounded like they were butthurt instead of hunting scum. Then I remembered Kush sayiung me/Pandain should be modkilled. Then I coudlnt recall pandain making a post.. which made me uneasy. I can't speak for everyone; but I was getting pissed off waiting for MZ to start the game. All I wanted to do was make a fisrt post, and then proceed to lurk because it was saturday day, and I had shit to do. Instead I had to keep sitting at the comp for liek1 hr, pressing F5.. In my frustration i made that post "..."; considering pandain copied me, i figured he felt the same way as opposed to trolling. Hence, to my surprise he was not quick at the bat to make a post; nor a post throughout the first couple hours. Henceforth me calling him out. Correct; but the original question was stupid and pointless. So you got a stupid and pointless answer. Shit in, Shit out.
It struck me as a little bit odd about Pandain; to me it makes you look mildly suspicious, and Pandain too. You, because you called him out a bit too soon (2.5 hours gap can have many perfectly reasonable explanations) meaning he had an extra chance to make a good excuse, and the fact that you noticed it then has little value to town. Him, because he did what he did followed by a vote without posting.
Other than that you look town to me Mocsta, so I suppose it could just be a preference thing about prompting or not and timing. Your posting pattern does establish a certain believable impatience anyhow
Still waiting to read Pandain, but soon putting my placeholder vote on him.
I'm a bit concerned about VE, but can't put a finger on it. Maybe a mix of trying to carefully establish as town and putting a measured amount of emotion in it. Does anyone who has played with him before get any tell about whether his pattern seems more or less deliberate than his usual town? I had this feeling early and it's lingering
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On September 21 2013 23:48 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 23:31 Zaragon wrote: Does anyone who has played with him before get any tell about whether his pattern seems more or less deliberate than his usual town? I had this feeling early and it's lingering I have a much stronger town read on DP >> VE. Originally, I thought VE looked really good for pointing out the Geript "manipulation" stuff. But having read the game I dont think the point is that valid. -> its a 50/50 call to me whether it was scum manipulation or town arrogance. Now, VE is back to null for me.
I dont get why me pointing out pandain is scummy. I get the point about instructing him to "post".. BUT.. would i not just do this in the QT? seriously, as scum, i dont think there is town cred to be gained by avoiding the current conversation (Geript/DP) to bring that to the fore.
My reasoning went more like this: from your position (as town) Pandain could be scum or town. If you had an itch about him based on his "..." and lack of posting, and if you had given it more time, he, as scum, would have had less opportunity to give an explanation or excuse. He might even have posted hours later and skipped past that point for his first post, and then would have read significantly more scummy, which you gave him an opportunity to avoid. Meaning that then you could be scum and him town. I'm not saying it makes me particularly suspicious of you now, especially given Pandain's reaction (or lack thereof) so far. Makes it understandable for you to call him out, since it tells me something about his play regardless of alignment.
About VE, I think if geript and DP are both town (which isn't at all a given) his play makes sense as scum, otherwise not, all I have on him besides that is the feeling about his posting I described earlier. If people who have played with him before are comfortable with his posting pattern and emotional level, that means it's probably nothing.
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I didn't read that Wave post as scummy. Ambiguous, but all the possibilities behind it that I could read are towny or neutral. Unless all it is is a kind of added pressure on DP only going along with Geript, but that feels like the least likely possibility to me so far. I'll wait for the explanation before considering commenting more
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Done reading filters for the night. Marvellosity feels town. yamato77 felt very town, but one long first post relatively late in the day can easily be very pro-town scum so I'll put him as neutral until I have a pattern to go on. Pandain same deal, except with less initial town feeling and thus more leaning towards scum.
I'm thinking I'd prefer a lynch to generate information day 2, as much as it pains me to skip non-contributors.
I'll elaborate and look at links if it's still relevant by tomorrow, now I need sleep. Have fun guys
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I don't read either Tofu or DP as scum right now. The problem with that is, they could both be, playing off each other, as it would be a good time for that. Still, I'm going to assume they're town for now since the other line of thinking is currently not useful. Especially since Tofu suspects VE, who I have had a bad feeling about all game.
I don't see any other reasoning for going after DP at this point as scum, I hope DP will elaborate about why he thinks there is.
Oh and from earlier:
On September 22 2013 09:26 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 09:23 justanothertownie wrote:On September 22 2013 09:20 ObviousOne wrote:On September 22 2013 09:17 justanothertownie wrote:On September 22 2013 09:05 ObviousOne wrote: Do you have thoughts about that post or no? It says almost nothing. You're so adorable. What does it mean to you that it says almost nothing? That's the point of the game. So you think only scum posts like that?
On September 22 2013 09:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 09:37 justanothertownie wrote:On September 22 2013 09:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: So JAT if someone posts something that's mostly fluff your thoughts on it are "big deal?", why? Because in my experience town does it all the time, too. It's not that it doesn't matter but if you want to convince me the dude is scum you should give me more reasons. Yeah you are right. It does not mean he is scum. But it's a post that serves no purpose. It says nothing. You should be by default curious of his intentions for making the post. It helps you getting a better read on him and it helps out people getting a better read on you. Townies should care about finding scum, bad posts should be called out.
I wrote exactly what I thought. That it is more likely to come from scum. Does that outright eliminate him as town? No. But since fuck-all is happening I'm trying to make something happen. So you have completely avoided answering this question. It's kind of important to note that the question wasn't important, the fact that you haven't answered it yet though is very interesting. Do you think I'm scum?
It was a bedtime post. But I'm glad you made some kind of use of it, even if only Rayn comes out looking slightly scum from it, to me. Rayn, would you say that your posts have generally had more substance than the one you pointed out? If we assume that asking what someone else thinks is not substance.
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EBWOP: last quote came apart, it was from ObviousOne
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Tofu feels like he's genuinely coming in and joining the discussion by past links in the thread, and his appraisal of that discussion feels similar to my own, his approach and attention is just slightly different. I don't have a strong town read on him, just what he's doing feels town (unless, as I said, he's playing off DP with both being scum, I'm only setting that aside because its likelihood and usefulness are pretty low atm)
My filter already has my read on VE, and him dropping off almost completely since hasn't made me less suspicious. Only reason I wasn't comfortable going after him harder was because I'm new and have zero meta to go on about his posting habit, method and emotional level.
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On September 22 2013 20:01 marvellosity wrote: Zaragon, your filter has basically nothing of substance on VE, other than "feels", and "potentially a mafia VE might play this way if both these dudes are town".
Elaborate please.
That's what it boils down to. His timing and input with his posts at that time seemed very deliberate, acting as catalyst for a town vs town fight and at the same time establishing himself as being on DP's side. Even his emotional responses felt too deliberate to me; I can't define that as it's mostly gut. It's day one, so any read--for me at least--works under the assumption that someone is linked to someone who is likely either town or scum. Any suspicion I have is still weak, and I won't pretend otherwise. I missed my window to go after him with sharper phrasings.
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On September 22 2013 20:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 19:36 Zaragon wrote:I don't read either Tofu or DP as scum right now. The problem with that is, they could both be, playing off each other, as it would be a good time for that. Still, I'm going to assume they're town for now since the other line of thinking is currently not useful. Especially since Tofu suspects VE, who I have had a bad feeling about all game. I don't see any other reasoning for going after DP at this point as scum, I hope DP will elaborate about why he thinks there is. Oh and from earlier: On September 22 2013 09:26 ObviousOne wrote:On September 22 2013 09:23 justanothertownie wrote:On September 22 2013 09:20 ObviousOne wrote:On September 22 2013 09:17 justanothertownie wrote:On September 22 2013 09:05 ObviousOne wrote: Do you have thoughts about that post or no? It says almost nothing. You're so adorable. What does it mean to you that it says almost nothing? That's the point of the game. So you think only scum posts like that? On September 22 2013 09:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 22 2013 09:37 justanothertownie wrote:On September 22 2013 09:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: So JAT if someone posts something that's mostly fluff your thoughts on it are "big deal?", why? Because in my experience town does it all the time, too. It's not that it doesn't matter but if you want to convince me the dude is scum you should give me more reasons. Yeah you are right. It does not mean he is scum. But it's a post that serves no purpose. It says nothing. You should be by default curious of his intentions for making the post. It helps you getting a better read on him and it helps out people getting a better read on you. Townies should care about finding scum, bad posts should be called out. I wrote exactly what I thought. That it is more likely to come from scum. Does that outright eliminate him as town? No. But since fuck-all is happening I'm trying to make something happen. So you have completely avoided answering this question. It's kind of important to note that the question wasn't important, the fact that you haven't answered it yet though is very interesting. Do you think I'm scum? It was a bedtime post. But I'm glad you made some kind of use of it, even if only Rayn comes out looking slightly scum from it, to me. Rayn, would you say that your posts have generally had more substance than the one you pointed out? If we assume that asking what someone else thinks is not substance. Yes i am saying that my posts have had way more substance than the post of yours in question here. How does me saying what i did make me scum? Also what exactly is your read on Pandain / VE and why?
It doesn't make you scum, you have just thrown out a lot of questions and provided few reads apart from a bit on FT. Which gives little material for anyone to read you, which is slightly scummy at this point.
On September 22 2013 20:50 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 20:45 Zaragon wrote:On September 22 2013 20:01 marvellosity wrote: Zaragon, your filter has basically nothing of substance on VE, other than "feels", and "potentially a mafia VE might play this way if both these dudes are town".
Elaborate please. That's what it boils down to. His timing and input with his posts at that time seemed very deliberate, acting as catalyst for a town vs town fight and at the same time establishing himself as being on DP's side. Even his emotional responses felt too deliberate to me; I can't define that as it's mostly gut. It's day one, so any read--for me at least--works under the assumption that someone is linked to someone who is likely either town or scum. Any suspicion I have is still weak, and I won't pretend otherwise. I missed my window to go after him with sharper phrasings. So.. what do you make of VE dropping his issues with Geript once I presented a counter-point?
Felt like softening his play as scum. Makes sense as town as well, though, it really was the sort of discussion where you can have an emotional reaction about something you might reread later. If he hadn't been a significant part in inciting the emotional part, it would be neutral; as is, suspicious
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On September 22 2013 21:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 21:22 Zaragon wrote:On September 22 2013 20:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 22 2013 19:36 Zaragon wrote:I don't read either Tofu or DP as scum right now. The problem with that is, they could both be, playing off each other, as it would be a good time for that. Still, I'm going to assume they're town for now since the other line of thinking is currently not useful. Especially since Tofu suspects VE, who I have had a bad feeling about all game. I don't see any other reasoning for going after DP at this point as scum, I hope DP will elaborate about why he thinks there is. Oh and from earlier: On September 22 2013 09:26 ObviousOne wrote:On September 22 2013 09:23 justanothertownie wrote:On September 22 2013 09:20 ObviousOne wrote:On September 22 2013 09:17 justanothertownie wrote:On September 22 2013 09:05 ObviousOne wrote: Do you have thoughts about that post or no? It says almost nothing. You're so adorable. What does it mean to you that it says almost nothing? That's the point of the game. So you think only scum posts like that? On September 22 2013 09:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 22 2013 09:37 justanothertownie wrote:On September 22 2013 09:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: So JAT if someone posts something that's mostly fluff your thoughts on it are "big deal?", why? Because in my experience town does it all the time, too. It's not that it doesn't matter but if you want to convince me the dude is scum you should give me more reasons. Yeah you are right. It does not mean he is scum. But it's a post that serves no purpose. It says nothing. You should be by default curious of his intentions for making the post. It helps you getting a better read on him and it helps out people getting a better read on you. Townies should care about finding scum, bad posts should be called out. I wrote exactly what I thought. That it is more likely to come from scum. Does that outright eliminate him as town? No. But since fuck-all is happening I'm trying to make something happen. So you have completely avoided answering this question. It's kind of important to note that the question wasn't important, the fact that you haven't answered it yet though is very interesting. Do you think I'm scum? It was a bedtime post. But I'm glad you made some kind of use of it, even if only Rayn comes out looking slightly scum from it, to me. Rayn, would you say that your posts have generally had more substance than the one you pointed out? If we assume that asking what someone else thinks is not substance. Yes i am saying that my posts have had way more substance than the post of yours in question here. How does me saying what i did make me scum? Also what exactly is your read on Pandain / VE and why? It doesn't make you scum, you have just thrown out a lot of questions and provided few reads apart from a bit on FT. Which gives little material for anyone to read you, which is slightly scummy at this point. On September 22 2013 20:50 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 20:45 Zaragon wrote:On September 22 2013 20:01 marvellosity wrote: Zaragon, your filter has basically nothing of substance on VE, other than "feels", and "potentially a mafia VE might play this way if both these dudes are town".
Elaborate please. That's what it boils down to. His timing and input with his posts at that time seemed very deliberate, acting as catalyst for a town vs town fight and at the same time establishing himself as being on DP's side. Even his emotional responses felt too deliberate to me; I can't define that as it's mostly gut. It's day one, so any read--for me at least--works under the assumption that someone is linked to someone who is likely either town or scum. Any suspicion I have is still weak, and I won't pretend otherwise. I missed my window to go after him with sharper phrasings. So.. what do you make of VE dropping his issues with Geript once I presented a counter-point? Felt like softening his play as scum. Makes sense as town as well, though, it really was the sort of discussion where you can have an emotional reaction about something you might reread later. If he hadn't been a significant part in inciting the emotional part, it would be neutral; as is, suspicious So in comparsion you should be really scummy then?
Yet another question and no substance. I've been giving my reads and analyzing people consistently; yes, I condense my points with little detail--I type slowly and am not going to bore anyone with my medical history. Give me your read on something I have said and I will address it.
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On September 22 2013 21:35 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 21:22 Zaragon wrote: So.. what do you make of VE dropping his issues with Geript once I presented a counter-point? Felt like softening his play as scum. Makes sense as town as well, though, it really was the sort of discussion where you can have an emotional reaction about something you might reread later. If he hadn't been a significant part in inciting the emotional part, it would be neutral; as is, suspicious
I dunno what "softening his play as scum" means.
I thought it was suspicous because he dropped his read based on my counter-point so easily. What i wrote was my own insight, but certainly also far from fact. I personally was expecting him to hold his point of view, and counter, my counter-point.
Unless of course I was that convincing. DP kinda suggested later that may have been the case.
Perhaps this point of discussion isn't worth pursuing then.[/QUOTE]
Think it was partly that, partly just him rereading the posts in the morning. After that, it makes sense as either town or scum, just with different motivations. As I said I read the motivation from his posts more scum. By "softening his play" I mean trying to go lower profile and taking less risks.
On September 22 2013 21:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 21:39 Zaragon wrote:On September 22 2013 21:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 22 2013 21:22 Zaragon wrote:On September 22 2013 20:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 22 2013 19:36 Zaragon wrote:I don't read either Tofu or DP as scum right now. The problem with that is, they could both be, playing off each other, as it would be a good time for that. Still, I'm going to assume they're town for now since the other line of thinking is currently not useful. Especially since Tofu suspects VE, who I have had a bad feeling about all game. I don't see any other reasoning for going after DP at this point as scum, I hope DP will elaborate about why he thinks there is. Oh and from earlier: On September 22 2013 09:26 ObviousOne wrote:On September 22 2013 09:23 justanothertownie wrote:On September 22 2013 09:20 ObviousOne wrote:On September 22 2013 09:17 justanothertownie wrote: [quote] It says almost nothing. You're so adorable. What does it mean to you that it says almost nothing? That's the point of the game. So you think only scum posts like that? On September 22 2013 09:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 22 2013 09:37 justanothertownie wrote:On September 22 2013 09:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: So JAT if someone posts something that's mostly fluff your thoughts on it are "big deal?", why? Because in my experience town does it all the time, too. It's not that it doesn't matter but if you want to convince me the dude is scum you should give me more reasons. Yeah you are right. It does not mean he is scum. But it's a post that serves no purpose. It says nothing. You should be by default curious of his intentions for making the post. It helps you getting a better read on him and it helps out people getting a better read on you. Townies should care about finding scum, bad posts should be called out. I wrote exactly what I thought. That it is more likely to come from scum. Does that outright eliminate him as town? No. But since fuck-all is happening I'm trying to make something happen. So you have completely avoided answering this question. It's kind of important to note that the question wasn't important, the fact that you haven't answered it yet though is very interesting. Do you think I'm scum? It was a bedtime post. But I'm glad you made some kind of use of it, even if only Rayn comes out looking slightly scum from it, to me. Rayn, would you say that your posts have generally had more substance than the one you pointed out? If we assume that asking what someone else thinks is not substance. Yes i am saying that my posts have had way more substance than the post of yours in question here. How does me saying what i did make me scum? Also what exactly is your read on Pandain / VE and why? It doesn't make you scum, you have just thrown out a lot of questions and provided few reads apart from a bit on FT. Which gives little material for anyone to read you, which is slightly scummy at this point. On September 22 2013 20:50 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 20:45 Zaragon wrote:On September 22 2013 20:01 marvellosity wrote: Zaragon, your filter has basically nothing of substance on VE, other than "feels", and "potentially a mafia VE might play this way if both these dudes are town".
Elaborate please. That's what it boils down to. His timing and input with his posts at that time seemed very deliberate, acting as catalyst for a town vs town fight and at the same time establishing himself as being on DP's side. Even his emotional responses felt too deliberate to me; I can't define that as it's mostly gut. It's day one, so any read--for me at least--works under the assumption that someone is linked to someone who is likely either town or scum. Any suspicion I have is still weak, and I won't pretend otherwise. I missed my window to go after him with sharper phrasings. So.. what do you make of VE dropping his issues with Geript once I presented a counter-point? Felt like softening his play as scum. Makes sense as town as well, though, it really was the sort of discussion where you can have an emotional reaction about something you might reread later. If he hadn't been a significant part in inciting the emotional part, it would be neutral; as is, suspicious So in comparsion you should be really scummy then? Yet another question and no substance. I've been giving my reads and analyzing people consistently; yes, I condense my points with little detail--I type slowly and am not going to bore anyone with my medical history. Give me your read on something I have said and I will address it. I ask questions and make conclusions from them. If the questions end up in non-scum conclusion i drop the matter because there is no need to say it ends up in a town/null read. Your analysis and conclusions are all "this guy did this and then that and he could do that as scum or town both". You have ne real conclusions in your posts. I would like you to give some conclusions that actually take some stance on someone. The only thing close to this is when you called me slightly scummy, and that is bullshit.
Yes, I keep in mind the possibility that someone could be town even if they do something scummy. I'm not scum so I don't know who is town besides myself. I've given reads on what is likely; if you prefer, you can read them as more definite when you interpret me. I currently have no interest in pretending someone is absolutely scum or absolutely town, I have an interest in making links, and for day 1 choosing a good, likely target that yields a decent amount of information.
Currently I'd be fine with VE lynch (feels scummy and would give us significant info from the early day events). There are lots of possible backups like LoneMeow, Sentinel, Rayn, Pandain but I don't have a comfortable read on them. I don't care about the lurkers or people posting nothingness, fine for throwaway lynches but mostly irrelevant for analysis. Of course, if we can't pass a lynch on someone else, we do need to get rid of them sooner or later.
I have decent town reads on Marv, Tofu, Geript, DP and Mocsta. But the situation suggests at least one of them as scum considering the amount of conflicting reads on each other. Unfortunately I can't tell who, if so.
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On September 22 2013 23:19 raynpelikoneet wrote:EBWOP: Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 23:12 Zaragon wrote:On September 22 2013 21:35 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 21:22 Zaragon wrote: So.. what do you make of VE dropping his issues with Geript once I presented a counter-point? Felt like softening his play as scum. Makes sense as town as well, though, it really was the sort of discussion where you can have an emotional reaction about something you might reread later. If he hadn't been a significant part in inciting the emotional part, it would be neutral; as is, suspicious I dunno what "softening his play as scum" means. I thought it was suspicous because he dropped his read based on my counter-point so easily. What i wrote was my own insight, but certainly also far from fact. I personally was expecting him to hold his point of view, and counter, my counter-point. Unless of course I was that convincing. DP kinda suggested later that may have been the case. Perhaps this point of discussion isn't worth pursuing then. Think it was partly that, partly just him rereading the posts in the morning. After that, it makes sense as either town or scum, just with different motivations. As I said I read the motivation from his posts more scum. By "softening his play" I mean trying to go lower profile and taking less risks. On September 22 2013 21:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 22 2013 21:39 Zaragon wrote:On September 22 2013 21:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 22 2013 21:22 Zaragon wrote:On September 22 2013 20:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 22 2013 19:36 Zaragon wrote:I don't read either Tofu or DP as scum right now. The problem with that is, they could both be, playing off each other, as it would be a good time for that. Still, I'm going to assume they're town for now since the other line of thinking is currently not useful. Especially since Tofu suspects VE, who I have had a bad feeling about all game. I don't see any other reasoning for going after DP at this point as scum, I hope DP will elaborate about why he thinks there is. Oh and from earlier: On September 22 2013 09:26 ObviousOne wrote:On September 22 2013 09:23 justanothertownie wrote: [quote] So you think only scum posts like that? On September 22 2013 09:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 22 2013 09:37 justanothertownie wrote: [quote] Because in my experience town does it all the time, too. It's not that it doesn't matter but if you want to convince me the dude is scum you should give me more reasons. Yeah you are right. It does not mean he is scum. But it's a post that serves no purpose. It says nothing. You should be by default curious of his intentions for making the post. It helps you getting a better read on him and it helps out people getting a better read on you. Townies should care about finding scum, bad posts should be called out. I wrote exactly what I thought. That it is more likely to come from scum. Does that outright eliminate him as town? No. But since fuck-all is happening I'm trying to make something happen. So you have completely avoided answering this question. It's kind of important to note that the question wasn't important, the fact that you haven't answered it yet though is very interesting. Do you think I'm scum? It was a bedtime post. But I'm glad you made some kind of use of it, even if only Rayn comes out looking slightly scum from it, to me. Rayn, would you say that your posts have generally had more substance than the one you pointed out? If we assume that asking what someone else thinks is not substance. Yes i am saying that my posts have had way more substance than the post of yours in question here. How does me saying what i did make me scum? Also what exactly is your read on Pandain / VE and why? It doesn't make you scum, you have just thrown out a lot of questions and provided few reads apart from a bit on FT. Which gives little material for anyone to read you, which is slightly scummy at this point. On September 22 2013 20:50 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 20:45 Zaragon wrote:On September 22 2013 20:01 marvellosity wrote: Zaragon, your filter has basically nothing of substance on VE, other than "feels", and "potentially a mafia VE might play this way if both these dudes are town".
Elaborate please. That's what it boils down to. His timing and input with his posts at that time seemed very deliberate, acting as catalyst for a town vs town fight and at the same time establishing himself as being on DP's side. Even his emotional responses felt too deliberate to me; I can't define that as it's mostly gut. It's day one, so any read--for me at least--works under the assumption that someone is linked to someone who is likely either town or scum. Any suspicion I have is still weak, and I won't pretend otherwise. I missed my window to go after him with sharper phrasings. So.. what do you make of VE dropping his issues with Geript once I presented a counter-point? Felt like softening his play as scum. Makes sense as town as well, though, it really was the sort of discussion where you can have an emotional reaction about something you might reread later. If he hadn't been a significant part in inciting the emotional part, it would be neutral; as is, suspicious So in comparsion you should be really scummy then? Yet another question and no substance. I've been giving my reads and analyzing people consistently; yes, I condense my points with little detail--I type slowly and am not going to bore anyone with my medical history. Give me your read on something I have said and I will address it. I ask questions and make conclusions from them. If the questions end up in non-scum conclusion i drop the matter because there is no need to say it ends up in a town/null read. Your analysis and conclusions are all "this guy did this and then that and he could do that as scum or town both". You have ne real conclusions in your posts. I would like you to give some conclusions that actually take some stance on someone. The only thing close to this is when you called me slightly scummy, and that is bullshit. Yes, I keep in mind the possibility that someone could be town even if they do something scummy. I'm not scum so I don't know who is town besides myself. I've given reads on what is likely; if you prefer, you can read them as more definite when you interpret me. I currently have no interest in pretending someone is absolutely scum or absolutely town, I have an interest in making links, and for day 1 choosing a good, likely target that yields a decent amount of information. Currently I'd be fine with VE lynch (feels scummy and would give us significant info from the early day events). There are lots of possible backups like LoneMeow, Sentinel, Rayn, Pandain but I don't have a comfortable read on them. I don't care about the lurkers or people posting nothingness, fine for throwaway lynches but mostly irrelevant for analysis. Of course, if we can't pass a lynch on someone else, we do need to get rid of them sooner or later. I have decent town reads on Marv, Tofu, Geript, DP and Mocsta. But the situation suggests at least one of them as scum considering the amount of conflicting reads on each other. Unfortunately I can't tell who, if so. Okay so last time. I did something scummy according to you. What is that i done that's scummy? And how is that scummier compared to your own posts. Also what are your thoughts on my case on Koshi?
Deflecting with questions. You've started to contribute more, but you still do more deflecting than giving reads or opinions when someone actually talks directly with you. I have no problem with questions, but when you don't attach much of your own opinion, it's easy for you to pretend you had a different agenda. Especially in a filter later on. Maybe I'm over-reading you, but to me it's enough to say you lean slightly scum.
I read up on your meta case on Koshi, I'd say it does make his voting and push for VA more scummy than I had assumed. My problem is, he seemed a lot more interested in his scum game than he is now. Anything to show he's just acting like he's mostly fooling around now?
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On September 22 2013 23:35 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Last night I had the suspicion that Zaragon was mafia because most of his posts were filled with fluff and didn't come to a solid conclusion. Obvious-town ObviousOne was being a boss and pointing it out. Still, I don't think I've seen anything from him that indicates a strong stance on someone or anything that has an edge to it. His posts feel constructed to me but don't do a whole lot.
Anyone have a town game of Zaragon I can read?
It's my first game and it's day 1. I could be assertive, but it would feel stupid. As I told Rayn, feel free to interpret my posts as more definite if you like for the purpose of reading me, I'm just very aware that I'm likely to be wrong about a lot just from pieces of meta or pure game knowledge I'm missing
(If you want some context, I've watched a whole lot of ESPORTS mafia, though)
On September 23 2013 00:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 00:37 Zaragon wrote:On September 22 2013 23:19 raynpelikoneet wrote:EBWOP: On September 22 2013 23:12 Zaragon wrote:On September 22 2013 21:35 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 21:22 Zaragon wrote: So.. what do you make of VE dropping his issues with Geript once I presented a counter-point? Felt like softening his play as scum. Makes sense as town as well, though, it really was the sort of discussion where you can have an emotional reaction about something you might reread later. If he hadn't been a significant part in inciting the emotional part, it would be neutral; as is, suspicious I dunno what "softening his play as scum" means. I thought it was suspicous because he dropped his read based on my counter-point so easily. What i wrote was my own insight, but certainly also far from fact. I personally was expecting him to hold his point of view, and counter, my counter-point. Unless of course I was that convincing. DP kinda suggested later that may have been the case. Perhaps this point of discussion isn't worth pursuing then. Think it was partly that, partly just him rereading the posts in the morning. After that, it makes sense as either town or scum, just with different motivations. As I said I read the motivation from his posts more scum. By "softening his play" I mean trying to go lower profile and taking less risks. On September 22 2013 21:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 22 2013 21:39 Zaragon wrote:On September 22 2013 21:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 22 2013 21:22 Zaragon wrote:On September 22 2013 20:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 22 2013 19:36 Zaragon wrote: I don't read either Tofu or DP as scum right now. The problem with that is, they could both be, playing off each other, as it would be a good time for that. Still, I'm going to assume they're town for now since the other line of thinking is currently not useful. Especially since Tofu suspects VE, who I have had a bad feeling about all game.
I don't see any other reasoning for going after DP at this point as scum, I hope DP will elaborate about why he thinks there is.
Oh and from earlier:
[quote]
[quote] [quote]
It was a bedtime post. But I'm glad you made some kind of use of it, even if only Rayn comes out looking slightly scum from it, to me. Rayn, would you say that your posts have generally had more substance than the one you pointed out? If we assume that asking what someone else thinks is not substance. Yes i am saying that my posts have had way more substance than the post of yours in question here. How does me saying what i did make me scum? Also what exactly is your read on Pandain / VE and why? It doesn't make you scum, you have just thrown out a lot of questions and provided few reads apart from a bit on FT. Which gives little material for anyone to read you, which is slightly scummy at this point. On September 22 2013 20:50 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 20:45 Zaragon wrote: [quote]
That's what it boils down to. His timing and input with his posts at that time seemed very deliberate, acting as catalyst for a town vs town fight and at the same time establishing himself as being on DP's side. Even his emotional responses felt too deliberate to me; I can't define that as it's mostly gut. It's day one, so any read--for me at least--works under the assumption that someone is linked to someone who is likely either town or scum. Any suspicion I have is still weak, and I won't pretend otherwise. I missed my window to go after him with sharper phrasings. So.. what do you make of VE dropping his issues with Geript once I presented a counter-point? Felt like softening his play as scum. Makes sense as town as well, though, it really was the sort of discussion where you can have an emotional reaction about something you might reread later. If he hadn't been a significant part in inciting the emotional part, it would be neutral; as is, suspicious So in comparsion you should be really scummy then? Yet another question and no substance. I've been giving my reads and analyzing people consistently; yes, I condense my points with little detail--I type slowly and am not going to bore anyone with my medical history. Give me your read on something I have said and I will address it. I ask questions and make conclusions from them. If the questions end up in non-scum conclusion i drop the matter because there is no need to say it ends up in a town/null read. Your analysis and conclusions are all "this guy did this and then that and he could do that as scum or town both". You have ne real conclusions in your posts. I would like you to give some conclusions that actually take some stance on someone. The only thing close to this is when you called me slightly scummy, and that is bullshit. Yes, I keep in mind the possibility that someone could be town even if they do something scummy. I'm not scum so I don't know who is town besides myself. I've given reads on what is likely; if you prefer, you can read them as more definite when you interpret me. I currently have no interest in pretending someone is absolutely scum or absolutely town, I have an interest in making links, and for day 1 choosing a good, likely target that yields a decent amount of information. Currently I'd be fine with VE lynch (feels scummy and would give us significant info from the early day events). There are lots of possible backups like LoneMeow, Sentinel, Rayn, Pandain but I don't have a comfortable read on them. I don't care about the lurkers or people posting nothingness, fine for throwaway lynches but mostly irrelevant for analysis. Of course, if we can't pass a lynch on someone else, we do need to get rid of them sooner or later. I have decent town reads on Marv, Tofu, Geript, DP and Mocsta. But the situation suggests at least one of them as scum considering the amount of conflicting reads on each other. Unfortunately I can't tell who, if so. Okay so last time. I did something scummy according to you. What is that i done that's scummy? And how is that scummier compared to your own posts. Also what are your thoughts on my case on Koshi? Deflecting with questions. You've started to contribute more, but you still do more deflecting than giving reads or opinions when someone actually talks directly with you. I have no problem with questions, but when you don't attach much of your own opinion, it's easy for you to pretend you had a different agenda. Especially in a filter later on. Maybe I'm over-reading you, but to me it's enough to say you lean slightly scum. I read up on your meta case on Koshi, I'd say it does make his voting and push for VA more scummy than I had assumed. My problem is, he seemed a lot more interested in his scum game than he is now. Anything to show he's just acting like he's mostly fooling around now? My case on Koshi is not based on meta. It's based on what he has done this game and how it does not make sense to me. There is meta to support my argument, but my argument is not based on meta. Could you elaborate more on why you think it's a meta-case, do you think Koshi's actions this game have been townie aside from meta?
Without meta, he read as town fooling around and I had largely dismissed him and what he did considering the size of the game and number of players. With meta knowledge, I could believe that it's an act. But I don't yet, since nothing so far says he's feigning his disinterest, to me. So I'm paying attention to him now, but don't have much actual alignment feeling on him
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On September 23 2013 05:39 yamato77 wrote:@RaynShow nested quote +On September 23 2013 01:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 23 2013 01:22 justanothertownie wrote:On September 23 2013 01:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: marvellosity do you feel like yamato has been trying to figure out your alignment in this game? Why should yamato try to figure out marv specifically? There are quite a few good players in this game. He specifically said that's how he works in games. He finds out marv/(Hapa's) alignments and lynches them or works with them. He also gave me an impression he has tried to read marv's slignment, i don't see him doing so. That tactic works in Mini games. It does not work in large games. In large games, as town, I skim the thread, noting what I find suspicious, and then work with multiple scum reads. It is too hard to win a large game by getting townreads. In a Mini it is easy. But at least I understand that you seem to think this difference in my play is actually meaningful. Makes me feel better about your alignment. @VEShow nested quote +On September 23 2013 02:45 VisceraEyes wrote:On September 22 2013 22:20 yamato77 wrote:On September 22 2013 18:42 FirmTofu wrote: As much as I dislike DP's play this game, DP's response to me is making me warm up to him. It is reminiscent of classic town play.
Townies know they are town. Therefore, when people call them scum, they instinctively believe the accuser is "bad" or scum. After all, they are town and they know that the accuser is wrong. This knowledge makes them act in anger and frustration when defending themselves.
Classic thought process: "How could this asshole accuse me? I'm town! I've been playing super pro-town all game and this guy is saying I'm scum? He must be a terrible player or scum."
While DP's anger toward me could be manufactured, it feels rather genuine. Scum DP is actually more likely to only argue the entire game than town DP is. Honestly, DP refusing to do anything OMGUS people the whole game is not a point in his favor, it is a point against. You should know better, because in Persona, he was actually somewhat useful despite there being arguments in the game. Unfortunately, if DP is mafia, you're probably just bad. This whole situation between you and DP is entirely too convoluted for two scum to have constructed. And yes, I am calling DP mafia, for the record. He can very well play this game properly and not like a butthurt noob. On September 22 2013 21:13 DarthPunk wrote:On September 22 2013 21:09 WaveofShadow wrote:On September 22 2013 21:02 DarthPunk wrote:On September 22 2013 20:42 WaveofShadow wrote:Hey DP, I don't know if this is your first fucking rodeo or something, but hey guess what? People accuse each other of shit all the time! Both stupidly and intelligently alike! Welcome to mafia! My suggestions is calm your tits and play the game without resorting to the angry tone, again either fabricated or real. Scaring FT away doesn't do a whole lot for us but it certainly makes it easier to accuse him of being scum which appears to be what you want? Now if you please, have a look at my earlier post for me and if you have any thoughts on the matter I'd like to hear them. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423071¤tpage=51#1005 I've played the same way for a long time. I am not changing just because you say so. See, but that's where I don't believe you. I've played games before with you in which you were not this constantly incensed. I'll go have a look at those now, actually, because it may in fact be that as you say, you only get this way when people accuse you of being scum. That's pretty hilarious actually if true especially considering you say you're 'not meta-able.' I do it as scum too. So no. not meta-able. Also I'm playing league. I will post when i feel like it. Pro-tip: Don't listen to a player's opinion of their own meta. Or take "I do this as scum/town, too!" as a valid excuse for legitimately scummy play. Wave has picked up on the same thing that I've picked up on, and it makes me feel very good about this read. I rescind my early scum read on Wave.
On September 22 2013 20:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: FirmTofu why is your play completely different from Desert? As in, he's actually posting? This line of questioning goes nowhere, because in recent memory, FT has simply not posted and been lynched for it. As town. Questioning the difference is completely pointless. Something is off with Rayn this game. His questions are generally stupid, but he's a special kind of useless so far and it's begun to seriously bother me.
RE: VisceraEyes Still pretty scummy and useless. Can be scummy and useless as town. Not necessarily a good lynch. His alignment will be clearer the longer the game goes on.
RE: Mocsta Has toned down his play to some extent but his early game still bothers me. His outright refusal to respond to me is ridiculous and a pathetic excuse to not face your accuser. I think he doesn't want to argue with me because he knows I can catch him. If Mocsta was town, I would have expected a far more vehement response to my accusations than "blahblah I didn't even read Yamato's posts except for the part where he called me mafia. Totes not true."
On September 22 2013 09:57 Chairman Ray wrote: Hey everyone, this is my first post here. Sorry I haven't been around since the start since I was pretty busy, but I'm definitely going to dedicate a few hours today and tomorrow doing my best to contribute.
This is my third game of forum mafia. I have played real time mafia as well. Even though I'm a lot less experienced than most people here, I'll pull my weight just fine and I don't expect any newbie lenience.
Last game I learned that it's quite difficult to get strong reads on people during the day. Most my reads at the start were quite off. A lot of town said scummy things, and a lot of scum were quite pro town. However during the final hour when thing started being messy, there were strong reads everywhere. So this game I will try to focus on making things very difficult for scum during the last hour. If a town ends up being lynched day 1, I want as much information to come out of it as possible.
So feel free to ask me anything and I will try to be as transparent as possible. If I see something fishy, I will definitely try to flush you out as well. This dude is now the best lynch in the game, for quite obvious reasons. ##Vote: Chairman Ray This is the thing I don't get about this post. He goes to some lengths to KINDA explain his reads on most everyone he mentions....except the person he's voting for. As if he doesn't want people to vote for the person he's voting for, rather one of the other people he called scum in this post (myself, DP for example). What's the town motivation for doing this and then disappearing? Why does he not care about getting his strongest read (in this case Chairman Ray apparently) lynched? Why not explain why he's voting for Chairman Ray rather than just say "Oh it should be obvious"? Yeah I'm voting Yamato. For the town. ##Vote: yamato77 I was feeling better about your alignment until this. Choosing to do nothing else but sheep thread sentiment onto my own wagon at a crucial time like this is actually fairly conclusive evidence that you are mafia. I see no indication before this that you actually thought I was scum, or thought anyone was scum, for that matter. The "reason" that you have voted for me is actually such a constructed piece of bullshit that I find it hilarious. You're not voting for any reason except for the fact that I voted for Chairman Ray when it should be apparent that I found the reasoning obvious? Laughably horrid. For the record, let me explain why Chairman Ray's post makes him 100% mafia. The one valuable thing I learned from Sicilian was that if there's one thing to be on the lookout for, it is terrible opening posts, especially late in the day. Now, all of you may have the impression from him that he's a noon, but it honestly makes no difference. Anyone who struggles so mightily to post anything of value that late in the day when they enter the thread is almost certainly mafia. To be fair, you could also damn him for his recent sheep vote if LoneMeow just as that wagon was taking off. Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 04:31 Chairman Ray wrote:On September 23 2013 04:14 LoneMeow wrote: I can't get a scum read on anyone but Umasi, and I'm notoriously biased against him so that's almost guaranteed to be wrong. I'll vote him anyway since I have to vote someone. Not sure I'll wake up for the deadline but I'll try.
Chairman Ray is lynchbait like in my last newbie, so probably town. IMHO his "last hour shenigans" plan is terrible, though.
##Vote: Umasi
Here for a while if you want to ask me something. Why would you say that voting Umasi is a terrible idea, yet vote him anyways? It seems to me like you are scum trying to get achieve a town mislynch D1, but unable to muster up any strong cases on anybody. So instead of posting a weak case against them and have everyone call you out on it, you beat us to the punch by telling us your case is poor to begin with. If you are really town, then a town who intentionally makes a bad vote is still hurting town. ##Vote: LoneMeow I guarantee that Chairman Ray is having a difficult time coming up with legitimately suspicious things to comment on, so his gameplan is to sheep the easiest lynch out there. At that time, LM fit the profile because votes were piling on him after he martyred. He is the most legitimately likely mafia candidate in the thread, and my vote will continue to stay on him. RE: The Rest of the Idiots Accusing MeMatthew voting for me I could see happening if he's town. Still a stupid vote, especially since it came after that abomination of a case VE used to justify his sheeping. But as town, I get the impression that he listens to others more than himself. DP I'm beginning to sway on. I'm not certain either way, and it's difficult to know when he's constantly defensive and proclaiming his accusers mafia. I should have known better than to voice my doubts about his alignment when his reaction is automatic. Still, he really has yet to come up with a scum read that wasn't "this guy accused me, he maf" Mocsta I'm pretty certain is mafia, but I hold small reservations that he could just be this horrid as town. He's not the best D1 lynch, Ray is. VE is a similar situation, for the record. As scum, they will continue to dig their own graves, so leaving them alive to get a better picture of them this game doesn't hurt anything. Sentinel, I don't really have much of a clue. I didn't like his entrance to the thread in the first place, and his timely sheeping of the wagon on me is quite disturbing. Could he be this bad as town? Possibly. If I had to guess, I'd say he's mafia, for the aforementioned reasons, but I don't feel good enough about it to lynch him.
Now, I have some time today to spend posting in the thread. Between work and sleep, I have not yet been afforded this chance. So for a limited time, my thoughts are available. Mind you, I generally have ignored most of the rest of the thread outside of the people I have mentioned, so most of my reads on other players are "havent looked" or "probably town".
That settles yamato77 on my town list. His posting pattern was scummy, but I was already getting over that and getting a real-life-impediment vibe, so I'm inclined to believe it.
Disagree as yet about Mocsta and the "obvious" Chairman Ray vote (which turned out to have good reasoning), but not in a way that indicates alignment.
yamato77, can you explain some specifics about your read on Mocsta?
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Need sleep. I'm going to
##Vote VisceraEyes
him being my strongest read from early on. That combined with what looked to me like a deliberately constructed emotional level, and then fading out of the game. Have a look at him again if he doesn't show something very good before the deadline.
LoneMeow caving under pressure... I'm not sure, it's more likely to happen as scum, but the way it happened is how I'd imagine it would happen for town. I don't mind a lynch if he's not even going to say "I'm town" but since I'll be asleep for the deadline I'm not going to try to add momentum on that with a vote now.
Chairman Ray seems to be playing the way he did in town in that previous game, so considering his personality, there isn't that much scummy about him to me (even his vote reasoning looks similar to the game he was town, as far as I can see)
I've tried to look at Mocsta more carefully, but the personality reads on him don't fit with my picture of him--I see him as gruff and relaxed. Looking at reads and his filter, I'm getting less clear town--by direction and substance--but not scum. I'm not sure how much to trust other people's meta on this, but certainly not enough for my vote at this point
Sentinel was never a great case I think, but he's still leaning a bit scum for me
I'll hang around a few minutes if someone has points or questions for me, but please make it short and sweet if so
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I've been here, reading off and on, working on a short story. Fair point I could've posted just to make my presence known, but I didn't have much to add until I decided it was time to get on with my vote and get to bed.
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On September 23 2013 10:03 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 09:52 Zaragon wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Need sleep. I'm going to
##Vote VisceraEyes
him being my strongest read from early on. That combined with what looked to me like a deliberately constructed emotional level, and then fading out of the game. Have a look at him again if he doesn't show something very good before the deadline.
LoneMeow caving under pressure... I'm not sure, it's more likely to happen as scum, but the way it happened is how I'd imagine it would happen for town. I don't mind a lynch if he's not even going to say "I'm town" but since I'll be asleep for the deadline I'm not going to try to add momentum on that with a vote now. Chairman Ray seems to be playing the way he did in town in that previous game, so considering his personality, there isn't that much scummy about him to me (even his vote reasoning looks similar to the game he was town, as far as I can see)+ Show Spoiler + I've tried to look at Mocsta more carefully, but the personality reads on him don't fit with my picture of him--I see him as gruff and relaxed. Looking at reads and his filter, I'm getting less clear town--by direction and substance--but not scum. I'm not sure how much to trust other people's meta on this, but certainly not enough for my vote at this point
Sentinel was never a great case I think, but he's still leaning a bit scum for me
I'll hang around a few minutes if someone has points or questions for me, but please make it short and sweet if so
Really? I just made a post looking at the votes. I think they are quite different. Can you please detail the similarities.
Jump-on vote, relatively spur of the moment feel, same time interval. True, his follow-up is weaker this time, I didn't spot that.
The way he breaks his phrases is non-indicative to me, as it relates to the specific circumstance.
Anyway, I'm off to bed, have a good evening, gents and ladies
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On September 23 2013 19:41 FirmTofu wrote:Now for a solid scum read! I kinda feel bad doing this because this is one of the only guys defending me, but Zaragon has been playing pretty scummy this game. The key to his play is apathy. If anyone here played in Sicilian, think of how Yamato played that game as scum. His posting was very constructed and formulaic. His first post reeked of how much he didn't give a flying fuck about finding scum. When I read Zaragon's filter, I get the same impression. Let's have a look, shall we? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423071&user=ZaragonShow nested quote +On September 21 2013 14:31 Zaragon wrote: Not much to go on without wild speculation on people's meta connections and personalities.
From posting interval as it relates to content, I like Geript less. He was pushing a little too hard too fast for either pure pressure or getting anything out of his read if he had one, while still posting at methodical, relatively slow intervals.
He did get to DP to be able to read him very early but it feels mostly like pushing buttons and corresponding reactions to me. Barring any history of reckless responses as scum on DP's part for context, DP feels most likely town. Geript could possibly be scum with one overplayed line DP picked up on, then feeling like he was forced to keep going somewhat like he was. However, it's still more likely to be town on town to me so far. His first post is a commentary on DP vs geript. He backs away from choosing a side, which is the first apathetic tell. His overall conclusion is that both players are town. He makes sure to sound willing to change his mind, as though he doesn't want to commit to this position in the event that the voting dynamic changes. Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 00:25 Zaragon wrote:On September 21 2013 23:48 Mocsta wrote:On September 21 2013 23:31 Zaragon wrote: Does anyone who has played with him before get any tell about whether his pattern seems more or less deliberate than his usual town? I had this feeling early and it's lingering I have a much stronger town read on DP >> VE. Originally, I thought VE looked really good for pointing out the Geript "manipulation" stuff. But having read the game I dont think the point is that valid. -> its a 50/50 call to me whether it was scum manipulation or town arrogance. Now, VE is back to null for me.
I dont get why me pointing out pandain is scummy. I get the point about instructing him to "post".. BUT.. would i not just do this in the QT? seriously, as scum, i dont think there is town cred to be gained by avoiding the current conversation (Geript/DP) to bring that to the fore. My reasoning went more like this: from your position (as town) Pandain could be scum or town. If you had an itch about him based on his "..." and lack of posting, and if you had given it more time, he, as scum, would have had less opportunity to give an explanation or excuse. He might even have posted hours later and skipped past that point for his first post, and then would have read significantly more scummy, which you gave him an opportunity to avoid. Meaning that then you could be scum and him town. I'm not saying it makes me particularly suspicious of you now, especially given Pandain's reaction (or lack thereof) so far. Makes it understandable for you to call him out, since it tells me something about his play regardless of alignment. About VE, I think if geript and DP are both town (which isn't at all a given) his play makes sense as scum, otherwise not, all I have on him besides that is the feeling about his posting I described earlier. If people who have played with him before are comfortable with his posting pattern and emotional level, that means it's probably nothing. See bold. He uses the parentheses to provide himself an out in the event that either DP or geript was to be lynched on Day 1. The parenthetical aside isn't something town would do. Town is more likely to believe their actions even to the point of fault. Only scum uses fallback options to justify their actions. Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 19:36 Zaragon wrote:I don't read either Tofu or DP as scum right now. The problem with that is, they could both be, playing off each other, as it would be a good time for that. Still, I'm going to assume they're town for now since the other line of thinking is currently not useful. Especially since Tofu suspects VE, who I have had a bad feeling about all game. I don't see any other reasoning for going after DP at this point as scum, I hope DP will elaborate about why he thinks there is. Oh and from earlier: On September 22 2013 09:26 ObviousOne wrote:On September 22 2013 09:23 justanothertownie wrote:On September 22 2013 09:20 ObviousOne wrote:On September 22 2013 09:17 justanothertownie wrote:On September 22 2013 09:05 ObviousOne wrote: Do you have thoughts about that post or no? It says almost nothing. You're so adorable. What does it mean to you that it says almost nothing? That's the point of the game. So you think only scum posts like that? On September 22 2013 09:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 22 2013 09:37 justanothertownie wrote:On September 22 2013 09:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: So JAT if someone posts something that's mostly fluff your thoughts on it are "big deal?", why? Because in my experience town does it all the time, too. It's not that it doesn't matter but if you want to convince me the dude is scum you should give me more reasons. Yeah you are right. It does not mean he is scum. But it's a post that serves no purpose. It says nothing. You should be by default curious of his intentions for making the post. It helps you getting a better read on him and it helps out people getting a better read on you. Townies should care about finding scum, bad posts should be called out. I wrote exactly what I thought. That it is more likely to come from scum. Does that outright eliminate him as town? No. But since fuck-all is happening I'm trying to make something happen. So you have completely avoided answering this question. It's kind of important to note that the question wasn't important, the fact that you haven't answered it yet though is very interesting. Do you think I'm scum? It was a bedtime post. But I'm glad you made some kind of use of it, even if only Rayn comes out looking slightly scum from it, to me. Rayn, would you say that your posts have generally had more substance than the one you pointed out? If we assume that asking what someone else thinks is not substance. Again, it's the same fallback option used in a different context. Zaragon says me and DP both aren't scum, but still uses the fallback to urge the discussion on. He clearly wants us to continue arguing here, as if he knows it will be non-conducive to a proper town atmosphere and is deliberately manipulating us into his hands.
This is fine and all, but you're missing a few things.
First, it's my first game. I was very uncomfortable, at the start especially, about making assertive statements. Attribute that to scum if you like, but it's wrong.
Second, I didn't see a problem with discussion continuing during a relative lull in the game.
Third, I could have very easily went with yamato77's read on Chairman Ray after I had just moved yamato77 solidly to town list and there was a push for Chairman Ray just before I went to bed. I wasn't comfortable with Ray, and went with my most solid scum read from early on, VE, who few people backing me on until new suspicions much later.
Does that really scream scum to you?
You're off my town list now. You seem to have read me as an easy target, but your reasoning is weak. Take away some of my fluffy fresh town mistakes and you can see I've been playing town, and I don't see how I would be a good target to go after if you're town, more if you're scum looking for something to bring to the table when you're on the chopping block.
I'll be back later to look at what the Chairman Ray votes meant and FT slipping off my town list
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