• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:09
CEST 14:09
KST 21:09
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play1Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8
Community News
[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)75ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo31Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611
StarCraft 2
General
Is the larve respawn broken? 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser Mizenhauer's Douyu Cup Preview ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play
Tourneys
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event INu's Battles#17 <BO.9> Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed
Brood War
General
ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? Farewell Beloved Starcraft (Youtube Videos) BW General Discussion vespene.gg — BW replays in browser
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Grand Finals The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL22] GosuLeague Casts - Tue & Thu 22:00 CEST
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Listen To The Coaches!
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9126 users

[GSTL] Playoffs: MVP vs. TSL

Forum Index > News
32 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 Next All

[GSTL] Playoffs: MVP vs. TSL

Text byTL.net ESPORTS
Graphics byPathy
November 22nd, 2012 23:47 GMT


Table of
Contents





Thankful for StarCraft
Intro


TSL vs. MVP
Preview


Check out the GSTL on Liquipedia


Thankful for StarCraft



'Oversaturation' has become a buzzword as of late; apparently it's the next big reason League of Legends will be killing StarCraft II in 2013. While oversaturation does pose some problems for tournament organizers, as fans, it's worth taking a step back to look at things from perspective and think "boy, do we have it good." On Thanksgiving weekend, there's plenty to be thankful for as there's an amazing wealth of StarCraft to be had. Already there's been DreamHack Winter and IEM Singapore, and now you can top it off with the GSTL semi-finals!

Team SCV Life

MVP



by Waxangel

In a nutshell, this is a match-up between team MVP, and a team that wants to be team MVP.

Both teams have the same starting point, as they have a powerful three-Zerg core, where each of the three Zergs fits into a unique hierarchical role. The leader is a popular, successful Code S player with a reputation for being an uber-ace in the GSTL, but is finding it hard to live up to that killer reputation in recent seasons ((Z)MVP.DongRaeGu, (Z)TSL_Symbol). Then there's the lieutenant, a player who has had a great reputation for being extremely skilled, but has only recently stepped into the spotlight ((Z)MVP.Sniper, (Z)TSL_HyuN). Some would argue that he's actually even better than the leader, with the leader getting by mostly on reputation. Finally, there's the third Zerg who's almost as good as Zergs one and two, but because he's the third best, he ends up going wildly under-appreciated ((Z)MVP.Monster, (Z)TSL_Shine).

That's where the similarities end and MVP's superiority begins. In terms of assembling a team around that core, team MVP seriously outmatches TSL. For starters, there's that tiny matter of the entire Protoss race. TSL haven't had a good Protoss option since JYP left for Evil Geniuses in 2011, after which their Protoss line has gone 0 - 6. While TSL still haul out (P)inori to give away a win every now and then, they might actually be better off not using Protoss altogether in their current state. In contrast, MVP has three useful Protoss players in (P)MVP.TAiLS, (P)MVP.finale, and (P)MVP.Vampire. TAiLS in particular, has carved out a niche as one of the cheesiest snipers in the GSTL, bringing all sorts of map and race specific strategies his opponents never dreamed they'd face. While none of the three are really stars or Code S regulars, they fit well into the line-up, contributing with more wins than losses.

Terran is an area where TSL should be ahead of MVP. MVP has another racial line that's three deep, with (T)Noblesse, (T)Dream, and (T)KeeN. However, the rule of GSTL is that individual strength outweighs depth, and TSL's Terran ace (T)Polt should be more valuable than MVP's combined Terran line. Unfortunately for TSL, Polt happens to be one of those individual league stars who just can't bring it in the team leagues. While he's not a total GSTL disaster like Nestea, he falls into a similar zone as MC and MVP where he's disappointing by being merely 'decent' instead of 'great.'

Much of the hype around TSL and expectations of their impending rise to greatness depended on Polt. Symbol and the Zerg line raised them to the level of playoff team, but it was up to Polt to be that second ace and take them over the top. Instead, he's been about as valuable as a single Keen, Dream, or Noblesse in the GSTL, which is not nearly enough to challenge for a championship.

While I've painted a pretty grim picture for TSL so far, there's one thing that might help even the odds in TSL's favor: (Z)TSL_HyuN. While the above comparison suggests the TSL and MVP Zerg lines are analogous and fairly equal, HyuN's rise threatens to change the script. As most people know by now, HyuN is one of the best players when playing online, capable of winning EU cups through EU lag, and winning a ridiculous FOURTEEN consecutive IPL Fight Clubs. The problem for HyuN was getting over the mental problems that prevented him from playing at that level in the booth. While it doesn't look like he's gotten over those problems entirely, it does seem like he's now playing at an at least 85% level in the booth. While Creator's mistakes had a bit to do with it, HyuN looked dominant as he won their GSL Ro8 series by a score of 3 - 1, qualifying for IPL5 in Las Vegas.

A fully powered HyuN gives TSL that second ace Polt has failed to be. Racial balance and depth are cool, but strong, streaky players are disproportionately the most important thing in an all-kill format. DRG's recent Team League slump leaves Sniper as the only such player on the MVP side. If HyuN can't step up, then the match-up boils down to Symbol + decent supporting cast vs. Sniper + awesome supporting cast. However, if HyuN can play at an ace level, the the duo of Symbol and HyuN is fully capable of taking down team MVP.

Similarly, a lot also depends on who DongRaeGu wants to be. His Team League slump has made it so he's ceded the ace spot to Sniper in practicality, if not yet in name. DRG's recent inconsistency makes it tough for anyone to pencil him in for more than a win or two, but if he can be the old DRG for just one day, no team stands a chance.


The Breakdown

As usual, the TSL team pretty much picks itself. Symbol, Polt, Shine and HyuN will play for sure. With Revival away in Singapore, Ragnarok is likely to take the #5 spot. However, there's an unspoken rule of the GSTL that line-ups choices are not allowed to make total sense, which will leave TSL fans sweating nervously as they wonder if Coach Lee will find a way to play Inori somehow.

It's hard to say who will play for MVP as they are the deepest team in the GSTL. Sniper and DongRaeGu are locks, but the other choices are pretty much up in the air. Finale is the best PvZ player so he'll could show up for that purpose, and TAiLS may be called upon to cheese again. Noblesse and Dream both prepared for TvPs in Code A this week, so Keen's likely to be the man when it comes to TvZ. As for ZvZ, Sniper and DongRaeGu are probably sufficient, but Monster could make an appearance as well.

In the end, I decided to pick conservatively. By that, I mean I decided not to believe HyuN is a GSTL ace until he actually shows it once. A merely good HyuN won't be enough to overcome the weight of depth on MVP's side. If Symbol goes absolutely crazy (it's a possibility), then he could kill three or four players to seal the deal... but I'm going with MVP's overwhelming depth to triumph.

MVP 5 - 4 TSL









Writers: Waxangel.
Graphics: Pathy.
Editor: Waxangel.
Facebook Twitter Reddit
TL+ Member
KaRath_
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Australia245 Posts
November 22 2012 23:57 GMT
#2
Nice writeup :D my favourite team was already eliminated... why have I a feeling that TSL will win 5-4 XD

(And just one error - "contribomg with more wins than loss")
I wasted my nights, you turned out the lights, now I'm paralysed, still stuck in that time...
Nacht1331
Profile Joined November 2011
United States15 Posts
November 23 2012 00:00 GMT
#3
Hyun hwaiting XD I'm hoping for a miracle Hyun all-kill, simply because I want him to be the super player his is at fight club.
Alas TSL, we knew the well.
mayneeahk
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada279 Posts
November 23 2012 00:02 GMT
#4
Really enjoyed the write-up per usual. Hoping for MVP to win with great performances from Dream and DRG.
PhoenixVoid
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Canada32748 Posts
November 23 2012 00:08 GMT
#5
This could be an incredibly close match-up just from the equality of quality on TSL and MVP. I think the deciding game will go between HyuN and Sniper, because if either team loses their incredibly important Zerg player who has the potential to ravage the other team, they could lose their chances at moving to the finals. Polt will likely be used to snipe Protosses, and potentially a Terran if needed, while Symbol will be the reliable ZvT sniper and ZvZ stalwart if needed. This one will go down to the wire, but I think TSL is carrying more momentum recently as a team and individuals.

TSL 5-4 MVP

(Plus I want to see TSL in a GSTL finals for once, MVP has had enough times)
I'm afraid of demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutants
cosine
Profile Joined September 2011
313 Posts
November 23 2012 00:17 GMT
#6
i think Polt's gonna bring his A-game to team league for once, so TSL has this for sure,
Fionn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States23455 Posts
November 23 2012 00:25 GMT
#7
Not counting that rebuilding season where Alive, JYP, Killer, and Clide all left at the same time, leaving TSL with pretty much no one established except Polt, TSL is 11-1 all-time in GSTL up to the semifinals.

They're 0-4 in semifinals.

Writerhttps://twitter.com/FionnOnFire
derpface
Profile Joined October 2012
Sweden925 Posts
November 23 2012 00:29 GMT
#8
Omg Polt not in bold?

Clearly not a Fionn article,
gg no re #_< no1 Hydra and Leta fan >_#
blacksheepwall
Profile Joined June 2011
China1530 Posts
November 23 2012 00:30 GMT
#9
Team MVP seriously outmatches TSL


I sort of hope that HyuN goes on a rampage and gets like three or four wins.

Not sure why, but I've been pulling for TSL for a while and this would be a huge win for them.

But I agree it's more likely for MVP to take this. Alternate awesome: DRG al-kills.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ // </3 Taeja
Fionn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States23455 Posts
November 23 2012 00:40 GMT
#10
Yeah, a win could be huge for TSL. Hyun in semifinals, whole team doing well in GSL, lots of player qualified for various foreign tournaments. A team league win could get them that big sponsor they want to join the big boys like IM, ST, and MVP.
Writerhttps://twitter.com/FionnOnFire
PhoenixVoid
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Canada32748 Posts
November 23 2012 00:50 GMT
#11
On November 23 2012 09:40 Fionn wrote:
Yeah, a win could be huge for TSL. Hyun in semifinals, whole team doing well in GSL, lots of player qualified for various foreign tournaments. A team league win could get them that big sponsor they want to join the big boys like IM, ST, and MVP.


Would be nice to see TSL finally get a strong sponsor, they manage to stay in the big leagues without a famous/massive sponsor, and earning a nice sponsor would be the icing on the cake.
I'm afraid of demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutants
Sumahi
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Guam5609 Posts
November 23 2012 00:55 GMT
#12
I'm cheering for TSL! It is interesting how both teams have evolved to have three zergs make up their winning core. A year ago I never would have imagined that TSL would have been like this.
Startale <3, ST_July <3, HongUn <3, Savior <3, Gretorp <3, Nada <3, Rainbow <3, Ret <3, Squirtle <3, Bomber <3
SHOOG
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States1639 Posts
November 23 2012 01:23 GMT
#13
This is going to be a close one. I'm going to go with MVP over TSL.
Broodlings
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States157 Posts
November 23 2012 01:32 GMT
#14
HyuN excels in the bo9 format... TSL will take this.
There is no Karont3 icon???? what is this madness?
Krossfire
Profile Joined July 2010
Australia1071 Posts
November 23 2012 01:35 GMT
#15
my two favourite teams!! such a tough pick

dont mind who wins as long as they win the whole GSTL....hoping for a close series tho
For the Swarm * DRG *
MatiaasS !
Profile Joined October 2011
Chile167 Posts
November 23 2012 01:36 GMT
#16
It's weard that MVP doesn't centre his power on just DRG anymore.
Team EG, TL and IM ! || Tennis For Life ♥ RF ♥
NovemberstOrm
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Canada16217 Posts
November 23 2012 01:52 GMT
#17
Both of these teams are awesome but I want TSL to win this time, they need a team league championship and they deserve one.
Moderatorlickypiddy
GoSuChicken
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany1726 Posts
November 23 2012 02:00 GMT
#18
rooting for TSL!
izmatic
Profile Joined November 2012
United States104 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-23 02:12:19
November 23 2012 02:10 GMT
#19
which will leave TSL fans sweating nervously as they wonder if Coach Lee will find a way to play Inori somehow
.


i also have this sneaking suspision they will start with center after his code a win.... this is gonna be so close i hope they dont leave an ace in the hole
two wrongs dont make a right, and three rights make a left
Emzeeshady
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada4203 Posts
November 23 2012 02:50 GMT
#20
--- Nuked ---
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 21m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Ryung 809
RotterdaM 572
uThermal 351
SortOf 219
Rex 81
SHIN 34
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 36080
Horang2 1111
Leta 817
Jaedong 767
EffOrt 533
BeSt 373
actioN 190
ggaemo 177
Mong 107
Killer 72
[ Show more ]
Sharp 67
Aegong 62
Mind 59
Hyun 49
Movie 37
sSak 26
Hm[arnc] 24
sorry 23
Sacsri 17
JYJ 17
Noble 9
Dota 2
XaKoH 493
XcaliburYe218
Counter-Strike
kennyS1568
pashabiceps849
kRYSTAL_78
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor267
Other Games
singsing1793
B2W.Neo893
Lowko526
crisheroes324
Pyrionflax278
Hui .154
byalli141
DeMusliM20
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream10692
StarCraft 2
TaKeTV 41
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 19
StarCraft 2
ComeBackTV 14
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• EnkiAlexander 9
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 7
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos3557
Upcoming Events
Maestros of the Game
21m
herO vs Classic
Maru vs Serral
WardiTV922
RotterdaM572
IntoTheiNu 27
EnkiAlexander 0
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
1h 51m
Bonyth vs TerrOr
eOnzErG vs Dewalt
XuanXuan vs TBD
Douyu Cup 2020
16h 51m
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
1d 1h
Mihu vs TBD
Online Event
1d 2h
RSL Revival
1d 13h
WardiTV Weekly
1d 22h
RSL Revival
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Bombastic Starleague
3 days
[ Show More ]
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
OSC
4 days
CrankTV Team League
4 days
Bombastic Starleague
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
HomeStory Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
HomeStory Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 21: Qualifier 1
WardiTV Spring 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
SCTL 2026 Spring
Douyu Cup 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
BCC 2026
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E1
Heroes Pulsing #3
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.