EPTI'm also in the boat that this would be bad if it started right away, but that doesn't seem like an actual risk.
Looney Lynching Mini Mafia
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I'm also in the boat that this would be bad if it started right away, but that doesn't seem like an actual risk. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I could easily see there being a role in the game that can influence lynches. Vote stealing, doublevoting, or a mechanic that interacts with lynches in some other way. I don't want to go with any kind of plan that relies on the slimmest possible margin, and would rather us have a little wiggle room to ensure that things proceed as we want them to. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Which is probably a good thing. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 10 2012 14:27 EchelonTee wrote: 1. It gives "credibility" to people who are knocked out early, while not forcing them to do anything significant. A good good good example of this problem was in Liar Game 1. Basically half of the people were immune to the lynch depending on a Yes or No vote; while town tried to make the immune people accountable for their actions, because they have no fear of the lynch they really have no pressure on them to do anything at all. A hilarious example is sandroba himself; despite being widely called scum since D1, because he was immune to lynch through flukes, he stayed alive for days manipulating people here and there. If we force everyone to vote on everything, the knocked out people can make random reasons for their votes and look active. However, if we don't force everyone to vote on everything, knocked out people will have to talk about things on their own prerogative, exposing their true intentions. ET I mostly like the points you made, but I get hung up on this one. Yes, the people who are safe as of Round 1 are immune to lynch for 72 more hours. However, On October 10 2012 11:00 kitaman27 wrote: You are not required to vote. If we don't force everyone to vote on everything, nobody is actually forced to vote. Nobody should be checking out for 72 hours once they're safe in Round 1, but the voting rules wouldn't require anyone to make reasoned choices later on that we could hold them accountable to. Moreover, while 1-vote-per-matchup removes some of what town can learn by how everyone votes (by limiting their options), people can also throw around blocks of votes with very little reasoning. 5 single votes with poor reasoning doesn't help us, but neither does a block of 5 votes on a single person with poor reasoning. Another point is that I can see the similarities between this and liar game, but the lynching mechanic here is ... almost unknown? Whereas in Liar Game people were going to be safe every day by chance, we don't know what future lynches will look like. It removes some of the ability to plot long-term, like in Liar Game how answers and votes were planned in advance, because we don't know what the lynching scheme is long-term. As long as mafia doesn't know either, I actually think not knowing future lynches favors town just because it negates some of mafia's ability coordinate actions in a way they KNOW will be beneficial to them. More reason, in my mind, for them to have some sort of lynch-affecting role or mechanic. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 11 2012 00:06 kushm4sta wrote: metaread on momentoss: he is this dumb as town I know that from liquid city. I think I've been suspicious of townMementoss in every game I've played with him, something he does always gives me a mafia read on him. However, he's not dumb as town. I don't care if you're sober or high or on PCP while playing this game. I found it tremendously difficult in LC to wade through all your posting to find the bits that I thought were well-reasoned or interesting or could give me an actual read on you. I'm all for silliness in these games, but if it's just constant in every post then it's going to hamstring your effectiveness as town because people either won't pay attention to you or won't bother to pick out the good points you make from among the bad. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I guess it must have been a master plan from the Alien Invaders who put themselves all as the lowest seeded people. I would put focus on eliminating players number 10, 11 and 12 this round if possible. You said your post was not to be taken seriously. But I don't know if you mean the entire post or not. Was this particular portion of your post unserious?On October 10 2012 19:31 Djodref wrote: I'd like to hear you, not anyone else, spell out more specifically why you find discussing the lynch mechanics to be inherently scummy. If mafia are going to look like they are participating while discussing the rules, that implies that townies will be discussing the rules, otherwise there's nothing to "participate" in, everyone who discusses rules has claimed scum. How do you separate hiro as scum from town just on the basis of his discussion of the rules?I totally second Thrawn's last post. I think giving ourselves rules for voting is going to give mafia an opportunity to blend in and/or to take advantages of these rules. I guess it should be ok if we just vote for the people we find scummy. Moreover, the more time we discuss about the rules we should use, the less time we have for scumhunting. It's also a golden opportunity for the mafia to look like they are participating while discussing the rules. According to this, Hiropro and Daoud have made scummy posts so far because it looks like they want to focus the discussion of the lynch rules. Also Daoud first post came off as weird in my eyes. It looks like he's going to prepare an excuse like "I didn't understand today's lynch principle" for later. @Daoud What was your motivation for your first post ? You guys are both in a first-round matchup against each other. This is currently the bracket I'm most interested in. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
He seems to have caught up, checked voting thread, noticed Hopeless1der's comment. Didn't answer my question, didn't acknowledge it. His first post doesn't hold water with me, the rules discussion = scum bit doesn't hold up at all, and that's really the only thing he's said of substance. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Djodref, even if imposing rules on ourselves is detrimental, how do you separate those people talking about the lynch mechanics from other players talking about the lynch mechanics? Is it purely that they left open-ended questions? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 11 2012 02:24 Mementoss wrote: Well I decided to go through the current matchups since thats all our votes count for today: 1. Mementoss: Town Hopeless1der: Hasn't really attempted to create any discussion thus far, and is pretty lurky. Most of his content seems to be in aasking questions about the set-up. Only thing worth while he has said for an opinion has been on prplhz for role-fishing. Pretty agressive against prplhz in his first post. Reading null to me right now I hope he starts posting more discussion worthy things. He is already ahead in the voting brack and I don't have a scum read on him. Therefore I have no reason to vote him. 2. OriginalName: Has been active after the game has started and chose not to participate in any discussion. Other than that nothing. Seems pretty scummy. Already ahead by 3 votes, I have no reason to use a vote on him right now. AustinMcc: He seems to be posting openly about his thoughts about the set-up and teh game in general. My meta read on austin is he likes to play the set-up a bit heavily as town. However, he is mostly all set-up posts as of now. It's still early but later I hope he gets a bit more aggressive with his scum hunting. Still looks town to me. Don't need to vote him right now. 3. prplhz: Id like to here his current opinion on this, and expand if he has a scum read on da0ud or if he thinks hes scummy and why. Or was his vote influenced on that he thinks djodref is town? His first post read very strange to me as well, asking about roles. Reading Null to me. Kushy: I don't understand fluffy explanation lines like this. Just try to find scum and the voting will come. The rest of his filter seems to be worrying about the setup with 1 liners about his confusing and commented on everyones plans about the vote. I have only played 1 game with him, but I find it hard to read him, and don't understand where he is coming from at times. He is currently losing to prphlz, so I am going to put a vote on him in round 1. Reading a tad scummy, but I am not sure with this guy to be honest. 4. This feels like an easy way out round 1, to not get discussion going on actual reads. Just saying Im going to vote the lurkers is a pretty lazy way for scum to get through the voting. He calls me a lurker despite having almost the same post count as me at the time of this post. He is currently reading scummy to me and I will put a vote on him despite him being currently in the lead. Du0ad: Opened with an awkward joke post, hasn't said anything so far, lurking hard. I hope to see him join round 1 and get some votes in. Not voting him just because I have a bit of a scum read on djoref. ##Vote: kushm4sta x1 djoref x1 I really like the idea of having everyone do this. Every matchup, who you prefer to see go on, WHY you prefer that, even if you don't vote them because you don't need to. This post alone makes me want to send hopeless1der to the next round in your bracket. I can't vote in my matchup, prefer to see ON sent on. I'd like to see prphlz's thoughts on the double D matchup. He gave an initial read based on their first posts. Has now asked ET about that matchup, without providing any more thoughts on his own. Not sure on the prplhz/kush matchup atm. Right now leaning Djoref on the last matchup, but would like to see da0ud answer as to whether his entire first post was a joke, or certain parts were serious (Besides the people with byes have a better chance to be lynched, which is true but not an opinion or anything...just pointing out something that's true). | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Sir prpl of the hz, Please be so kind as to tell us who you want to advance in each matchup and why. Do take extra care with the double D matchup. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
da0ud I don't think first time scum (at least here) would come in, drop a post that wasn't serious, and then jet forever. I would think he'd be concerned about being found out, do something more. His first post DOES feel kind of constructed, Hi again guys! and "Daoud" to sign out. But I think it's a post constructed by a townie. Like a scummy constructed post would be in response to a question, or would be pushing someone, or doing SOMETHING. A post that's constructed and does NOTHING doesn't point scum to me. I also think that's an important difference, and just hammering at "constructed = scum" is possibly scummy. Just like "possibly scummy" is scummy for being wishy washy... I also think that mentioning someone might have planned for scum to be the low numbers in the game is probably not from mafia? That sounds like paranoid townie talk to me. Djodref I already poked at it, and HiroPro seems to see the same thing. On October 10 2012 19:31 Djodref wrote: He draws a distinction between rules talk and scumhunting. But there were so many people talking about rules, and it has to happen. He singles out two, based on their open question, and based on them being "willing to spend more time discussing the lynch mechanics." I do not love that distinction (mildly scummy). I do not like that it comes after the fact. If I knew more about djodref, i'd question whether he's the sort of player to find people who ask for MORE mechanics talk scummy over people who bring it up but don't actually carry discussion forward. (He's played a newbie game? Does anyone off the top of their head know if he called anyone out for...stifling discussion? Usually asking questions and moving things forward is GOOD, even if it's about a suboptimal topic, and stopping discussion is the bad bit). Moreover, the more time we discuss about the rules we should use, the less time we have for scumhunting. It's also a golden opportunity for the mafia to look like they are participating while discussing the rules. According to this, Hiropro and Daoud have made scummy posts so far because it looks like they want to focus the discussion of the lynch rules. Also Daoud first post came off as weird in my eyes. It looks like he's going to prepare an excuse like "I didn't understand today's lynch principle" for later. I want to see Djodref move though. I want to see prplhz move through over kush, although right now Djodref is probably my top read? Generic "Sandroba should post more" comment. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 11 2012 08:12 kushm4sta wrote: Thrawn did you read my point about how it's a scum mentality to say that byes are at a "disadvantage"? vote daoud IMO! I really dont want to overrule other people's votes by voting more than once. I also do not want to get lynched, and I am town. I view starting one step closer to lynch as a "disadvantage." Yes, it's kind of weird phrasing, but townies don't want to get lynched either. I don't read that as really pointing one way or the other, whereas I read his comment about wanting to lynch seeds 10, 11, and 12 because they might have rigged the bracket that we have been told by mods was random as a townie thing. It shows...unhealthy paranoia about things that cannot be true? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 11 2012 08:16 austinmcc wrote: I'm of the opposite mind as prplhz and kush on the double D lynch. da0ud I don't think first time scum (at least here) would come in, drop a post that wasn't serious, and then jet forever. I would think he'd be concerned about being found out, do something more. His first post DOES feel kind of constructed, Hi again guys! and "Daoud" to sign out. But I think it's a post constructed by a townie. Like a scummy constructed post would be in response to a question, or would be pushing someone, or doing SOMETHING. A post that's constructed and does NOTHING doesn't point scum to me. I also think that's an important difference, and just hammering at "constructed = scum" is possibly scummy. Just like "possibly scummy" is scummy for being wishy washy... I also think that mentioning someone might have planned for scum to be the low numbers in the game is probably not from mafia? That sounds like paranoid townie talk to me. Djodref I already poked at it, and HiroPro seems to see the same thing. He draws a distinction between rules talk and scumhunting. But there were so many people talking about rules, and it has to happen. He singles out two, based on their open question, and based on them being "willing to spend more time discussing the lynch mechanics." I do not love that distinction (mildly scummy). I do not like that it comes after the fact. If I knew more about djodref, i'd question whether he's the sort of player to find people who ask for MORE mechanics talk scummy over people who bring it up but don't actually carry discussion forward. (He's played a newbie game? Does anyone off the top of their head know if he called anyone out for...stifling discussion? Usually asking questions and moving things forward is GOOD, even if it's about a suboptimal topic, and stopping discussion is the bad bit). I want to see Djodref move though. I want to see prplhz move through over kush, although right now Djodref is probably my top read? Generic "Sandroba should post more" comment. Lol, I'm leaving the generic comment in that quote because it still applies. I just don't see first time scum on here making that point about low seeds rigging the lynch. Nor does the post feel constructed in a manner that pushes anything scummy. If you think a constructed entrance post is scummy on its own, that a townie would just jump in whereas only a scum is careful right from the start, then I could see that angle as well. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 12 2012 04:05 prplhz wrote: @EchelonTee So sandroba kept up his appearance for the first couple of hours and since then he's had a "hunch" post and one measly contribution. Do you really think this looks like townie sandroba? Last sandroba townie game I remember was Space Station where he ruled the town with an iron fist and nailed like 5 out of 6 scum in the first two days. Fucking ridiculous. I don't think that this looks like townie sandroba at all. When sandroba is town he can do magic but there's none of that right now. This is day1 and that always makes me a little weary of lynching a player of sandroba's caliber but it's a 96 hour day so I have no problems putting a little pressure on him. Right now I have no problems with him advancing over kushm4sta, I actually prefer that since kushm4sta is showing a lot more interest in this game. Town in bureaucracy. (I understand that may not be a good comparison because a lot of his play and interaction centered around his role and the splintered mafia team made scumhunting slightly different at first). This is almost exactly my thought process, though. I hated the thought of lynching Palmar earlier even when he was doing nothing, and I get that feeling about Sandroba even though I've seen him in games less. I think the setup works very well for this, though, push Sandroba through to the next round, and keep watching him for contributions/anything. I can't tell if it's just purely like telegraphed pressure voting (we're gonna vote for you but you won't get lynched until at least 48 hours from now) or if there's actual more weight behind votes here, since each round you pass increases your chances at actually getting lynched, especially if your opponent is mafia and they're making any moves. So, I like sending Sandroba forward over kush. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
He dropped off the face of the earth, and was either replaced or modkilled partway through. Or...maybe we lynched him because he disappeared, I think that was actually what happened? In any case, I don't know his meta and have only played in one game that he was actually active in, but I wouldn't use LVI as the basis of an opinion on his play. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 12 2012 10:30 kushm4sta wrote: ET was lynched largely due to inactivity on the second day. yeah not the best game it was just the most recent. I don't know him well and I haven't fully formed a read on this game. I'm willing to place a vote or two on djo if that puts him through, and try to figure out ET later. Djo WAS very jokey and casual in that matchup post, but he also lost R1 to someone who had a very joke-y post, which was one thing that gave some of us (or just me?) a town read on him. If djo gets townie points for being casual and jokey, they're massively reduced because of that. If something is pointed out as townie, and then you do it, I don't know if it's because you're town or because you want to look that way. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
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On October 13 2012 07:22 thrawn2112 wrote: Austin I know you like posting walls of text about anything and everything.... are you here? I'm here. I've got a couple general thoughts, and need to check and see whether applying them to what's happened shakes out anyone. I'll post a wall or two shortly  | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Mementoss v. HiroPro Kush v. da0ud me v. prplhz | ||
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