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First post motherfuckers.
Ask me anything. ANYTHING. I won't be around too much later in the game (got a test on Monday, and like 3 different works to finish before each weekend in a row), so the sooner everybody realizes I'm town the better.
For instance, I know that "thing" in Caller's game was a joke, but I wasn't actually joking about that PW plan.
I'd want Phoenix Wright to claim so we can decide what statement he has to object
That may give us 1/more mod-confirmed town/scum in D1. Plus we can get some discussion going (although I suspect there is no PW in this game for some reason, since it's a small game).
So, basically ignore that statement above until PW claims or not.
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^DAMN YOU MATTCHEW, THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE MY FIRST POST IN A GAME OF MAFIA EVER!!!!!
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On September 30 2012 09:30 Mattchew wrote:
I finished reading crossfire and eating dinner
someone that has played in the past aperture game, what was crucial to town winning?
I was in it, found like 80% of scum on D1 and made 2 of them suicide into me on N1 
..
But mostly it was kita killing half of the scumteam himself and Nisani derping as sleeper cell inventor.
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On October 01 2012 04:46 ghost_403 wrote:
Hiro goes on my town list because no anti-town faction would be dumb enough to say that.
Still wanna lynch Keirathi.
You are acting like an ass. You can't just say "Keirathi is too pro-town on D1 to be town" and expect everybody to bandwagon and do nothing else.
I see the point of view you are getting at, but I don't see it actually happening right now (i.e Keirathi putting "tons of effort" trying to appear townie), so if you still think that expand on it.
Keriathi vs Drazerk
At the moment I'm getting the feeling both are town.
Keirathi's plan was bad yes, and I agree his unvote seemed a "little" strange, but that's as far as I can see in terms of him being suspicious.
Anti-town players rarely come up with intentional stupid/bad cases/plans right off the bat in D1 since it puts lots of attention on them. [pre-edit: I know talismania did something similar in Can't Believe Mafia, so it's possible Keirathi could have done it as scum/3rd party, even if it's unlikely]
Other than that his explanations seemed genuine to me. Still gotta keep an eye on him, specially since he hasn't taken off in terms of actual scumhunting right now.
About Drazerk....meh. Seems like he thought he caught something. I didn't get the feeling he wanted to shit up the thread since he had the chance to do it. He just seemed to try and make sense of the situation and get some discussion going.
I take it he didn't really take his vote on Kei seriously (since why would he vote for someone he thinks is survivor?), although that was a little strange.
Am I the only one that found these 2 posts weird?
On September 30 2012 14:32 Nisani201 wrote:
##Vote: Drazerk
I don't understand why he's still pushing against Keirathi. His plan was clearly poorly thought out, I see no scum motivation behind it. Drazerk is taking a newbie mistake and calling it scum play.
On September 30 2012 22:22 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2012 14:15 Drazerk wrote:
I disagree the set up speculation would start again when all the Europeans wake up because your little idea was poorly managed. To me it just looks like a third party realizing they had done something silly and trying to back out of it before they are caught out without realizing their excuse puts even more focus on the stunt.
If you wanted to truly derail the thread from set up you would of kicked up a storm and not backed down for at least 24 hours. A 2 hour changeover where only mattchew posted anything significant isn't that. People seem to be missing this. The first time he said it, he had some options in there, but now Draz seems focused on "Third Party" for Keirathi... Not scum, but potentially third party (based on all that same speculation about setup)? You suggesting you know who IS scum, Drazerk? ##Vote Drazerk
Both of them rarely posted before that, and came out of nowhere with a vote on Drazerk of all people. Then none of them stuck around discussing their read on Drazerk and just disappeared.
First, let it be clear that I don't get the feeling both are scum (since I doubt both would act exactly the same way as scum), but it's a possibility if you guys want to discuss it.
What I think of it is.....scummy and weird.
I didn't see any of them invested in discussions, specially not in discussions concerning Keirathi and Drazerk. They just came, parked their vote on the "easy" target ("easy" in relative terms) and left. I see no town motivation at all in parking your vote and disappearing before discussing your reasoning with other people and waiting to see what others have to say.
However, I could let Nisani pass, since he did minimally discuss his read of Drazerk later (it was 1 post, but at least it was something). Plus it's Nisani and I can see him acting like that as town.
I'm more concerned with JingleHell at the moment:
On September 30 2012 09:03 JingleHell wrote:
Hello gents. Let's get some scum.
This was his first post. After this I assumed he'd come with walls of text quoting everybody, asking everybody questions and trying to actively find scum.
What he actually did was disappear, then come out of nowhere to park a barely-justified vote on Drazerk and disappear again.
The contrast between his initial "eagerness" to catch scum and his actual behaviour is very scummy. Again, also considering the fact that he doesn't seem to care about his read on Drazerk since he immediately disappeared later instead of trying to reason his read with others or with Drazerk himself.
Players that vote just for the sake of voting (and not for the sake of trying to figure out someone else's alignment) are either ultra bored/busy townies or scum. I see no indication of JingleHell being bored because of his 1st post, nor any indication of him being busy (again, because of his 1st post as well and the lack of explanation from him), so I'm going with the 3rd option here:
##Vote: JingleHell
P.S: I can't be arsed to check austin/Mementos/s&b/hiro and all those people right now.
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EBWOP:
Also, I hope nobody will have the nerve of calling me hypocrite and vote me because of "me doing the same thing JingleHell is doing" or some shit like that.
I'm going to study for my test, but I'll be around, so I'll answer any questions you guys have and try to be here and not just disappear.
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On October 01 2012 05:38 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 05:20 gonzaw wrote:
EBWOP:
Also, I hope nobody will have the nerve of calling me hypocrite and vote me because of "me doing the same thing JingleHell is doing" or some shit like that.
I'm going to study for my test, but I'll be around, so I'll answer any questions you guys have and try to be here and not just disappear. Oh, so you acknowledge that your "case" against me would work similarly against yourself? Good, I'll just ignore you.
I acknowledge that some people may not pay attention and think of it that way. Just trying to save people some time.
If it was somehow ambiguous, I found Draz suspicious in that he seemed to have just assumed a specific subset of non-town for Keirathi.
Generally, if I see something as anti-town, I don't go saying "Oh, he must be third party". Why? Because scum is anti-town. Making a faction based guess, especially in a closed setup, beyond saying "X is acting anti-town" sounds like you're privy to some knowledge about factions, and it's probably a little early for that.
Why is him thinking Kei was 3rd party instead of scum suspicious?
Why do you think he's privy to knowledge about factions just because he called someone 3rd party (which is as ambiguous as you can get regarding "factions")?
Why does that make him scum?
Also Jingle.....what else? Do you have any comments on anything else that happened? You haven't talked about Keirathi either nor said if you thought Drazerk's "find" was legit or not, plus you ignored everything else happening as well.
Short questions I want answered ASAP so we get them over with:
At Drazerk:
1)Why do you think Keirathi was 3rd party and not scum?
2)If you thought he was 3rd party survivor, why did you still vote for him?
At Keirathi:
1)Are you going to start scumhunting soon?
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EBWOP:
JIngle, I get the feeling you are voting Drazerk and accusing him just so you can justify doing something in this game. I don't get the feeling you are trying to figure out his alignment and convince yourself he is scum, nor I get the feeling you want to convince us he is scum so we can lynch him.
I just see you lurk, then come out of lurking to park your vote using a half-assed justification for it and then going back to lurking.
Like I said, I can only see bored/trollish/busy townies doing that (although even busy townies would try to do something else to push their read), and I don't see you being any of them.
You are too serious and "eager to catch scum" to be a bored or trollish townie (for instance I could see Nisani being a bored townie, at least at this point in the game), and again there's no indication you are busy (and again even if you were I doubt you'd act like you did).
So where does that leave you? As scum unfortunately, unless someone can figure out some town motivation for Jingle's behaviour.
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On October 01 2012 06:03 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 05:59 gonzaw wrote:
At Keirathi:
1)Are you going to start scumhunting soon? When I feel like there's enough for me to make an actual case that I believe in. Until them, I'm content to ask questions and discuss the current goings-on in the thread to build my reads.
Okay, answer me this then:
1)How do you stand in respect to Drazerk? Do you agree with Nisani/Jingle/etc about his scummy behaviour or do you think he's town or are you not sure?
2)Same about JingleHell. Do you agree with what I said about him or not? Or do you think it's not enough to judge his alignment, and if so why?
3)Do you think ghost acting like an idiot and wanting to lynch you for mind-boggling reasons makes him scum, reckless townie trying to play the "aggressive hero" role, or is not enough to judge his alignment?
I'm more interested in your thought process at the moment rather than what you actually think (I want to know if you are legitimately trying to build your reads or you are scum trying to skate by without doing anything)
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On October 01 2012 06:24 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +However, I could let Nisani pass, since he did minimally discuss his read of Drazerk later (it was 1 post, but at least it was something). Plus it's Nisani and I can see him acting like that as town. Can you explain this a little more?
Nisani followed up his vote with an explanation when Drazerk called him out. He didn't seem too interested in the game either, his behaviour seemed way less aggressive than Jingle, which like I said I could see as him being a bored townie and not caring that much about the game, which is why I focused on Jingle.
I still found it odd, but meh it was Nisani and my gut didn't tell me he was scum. It's still interesting so of course we should still keep an eye on him.
And I don't think your point on JingleHell is very good. I can see someone who isn't very familiar with Drazerk jumping on that.
What about my other points? That Jingle comes out to post just to "appear he's contributing" and "justify himself" and seems less interested about his actual read and convincing people of it?
Hmm, I'll wait on the contributions of other people before doing anything else.
I'd really like Mementos to tell us if his austin thing is getting anywhere and if he has anything else to say.
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On October 01 2012 06:52 Keirathi wrote:
@gonzaw:
No comments on my reply? Do you agree with my thinking?
No, no comments. Like I said I wanted to see your thought process.
I kind of agree about Drazerk and ghost, although I'm not thinking too much about ghost's behaviour right now, I'm basically waiting for him to do something else and see if he stops trolling or if he legitimately will play all the game like this.
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Try not to be such an asshole Jingle, it's just freaking D1.
I'm having mixed feelings about you. I don't know if this aggressive "I don't care" behaviour of yours is a ruse or if it's legit, but it's confusing me a little bit (i.e I don't know if you'd react like that as scum).
I'm not asking people to bandwagon you, and asking for opinions and stances.
If it makes you feel any better though:
##Unvote: JingleHell
Jingle, what do you think of Mementos' 1st post about Keriathi and austin and his behaviour this game?
I wouldn't mind shifting discussion towards Mementos, ghost, S&B and maybe Nisani.
Hell S&B did absolutely nothing so far, maybe Drazerk is onto something.
P.S: Also Jingle, are you seriously saying you won't accuse anybody so they don't accuse you of OMGUSing back? Are you willing to accuse any of those people you mentioned just out of spite or because you seriously think they could be scum?
Don't start acting like the world is against you when you only have 2 votes and it's 24 hours into D1.
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Mementos, any thoughts on JingleHell and others? (like ghost for instance)?
There's a severe lack of information going on.
I'm also severely worried/disappointed in s&b. Does he act like this when he is scum? (i.e never post anything)
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So....hello, anybody?
austin, why aren't you making those fluffy walls of text you make when you are town?
Why does it seem nobody cares?
Damn, what a boring game :/
If this keeps up like this I'll most likely vote S&B, or ghost (if he wasn't intentionally trolling), or Jingle (if I make up my mind about him) or Mementos/Nisani/austin/iamperfection (I have "weird" feelings about all of them but there so little to go on that I can't know for sure).
Yeah, not incredibly useful, but oh well...
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On October 01 2012 10:51 Keirathi wrote:
I would talk with you but I exhausted my major reads when you asked earlier, so I'll just make some quick comments:
s&b: hardcore lurking. I honestly expect more from him.
austin: weird flip-flop on me, and again not as active as I would expect
Mementoss: null. I'm curious what about him gives you a weird feeling? Your only mentions of him so far are in passing, or asking other people questions.
iamperfection: slight meta-based town read, despite his lurkiness.
The "weird" feeling I had about Mementos was that 1st post of his. His reasoning to vote austin didn't seem that good to me (although I don't really want to get into it right now), and it seemed he picked him out of nowhere. The worst thing is that that post of his made me think "wow, so it seems Mementos will be active and contribute" but he never followed up with anything later.
Just how I found Jingle suspicious because Jingle FoSed Drazerk and then did absolutely nothing to push his read, I find Mementos suspicious for doing the same to austin. He parked his vote on him, then disappeared only to sporadically make irrelevant one-liners and completely forget about austin.
It may be that he was having 2nd doubts on austin but was not really sure if he wanted to unvote him or not and thus kept his vote (which I guess is what happened with Jingle, and basically what happened with me some time ago), but there's almost no indication of that from him and that doesn't justify his lack of contributions since then
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About Drazerk:
Can someone tell me why Drazerk might be scum?
I'm genuinely interested, because I can't seem to read him right. I get the feeling he's one of those kind of players you just have to keep alive throughout the whole game to analyse their play.
As in, you need a large time span to gauge his contributions and actions and see if they are anti-town or not because they rarely contribute at any specific time and just troll or post irrelevant stuff and just kind of hang around.
Saying "because he switched his vote with little reason" is not enough since that's one of those things I kind of assume his kind of player does most of the time (vote and unvote randomly, or just sheep, talk about irrelevant stuff and never giving enough good reasoning behind their actions, etc).
The way I think of it, Drazerk had the chance to shit up the thread a lot but didn't take it, instead just "discussed" his read on Keirathi (somehow, I don't really understood what he did there) and then backed off, which doesn't seem something his type of player would do as scum IMO, specially early on D1.
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On October 01 2012 15:16 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 15:12 gonzaw wrote:
About Drazerk:
Can someone tell me why Drazerk might be scum?
I'm genuinely interested, because I can't seem to read him right. I get the feeling he's one of those kind of players you just have to keep alive throughout the whole game to analyse their play.
As in, you need a large time span to gauge his contributions and actions and see if they are anti-town or not because they rarely contribute at any specific time and just troll or post irrelevant stuff and just kind of hang around.
Saying "because he switched his vote with little reason" is not enough since that's one of those things I kind of assume his kind of player does most of the time (vote and unvote randomly, or just sheep, talk about irrelevant stuff and never giving enough good reasoning behind their actions, etc).
The way I think of it, Drazerk had the chance to shit up the thread a lot but didn't take it, instead just "discussed" his read on Keirathi (somehow, I don't really understood what he did there) and then backed off, which doesn't seem something his type of player would do as scum IMO, specially early on D1. What did you think of this part of s&b's post, gonzaw: Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 14:25 strongandbig wrote:
he knows that he and i often get into shitfights and it's advantageous for him as scum to try and start one, as long as he thinks i won't be able to push a scum read on him through, which he probably does because he's arrogant. the thing is - his argument works both ways around - he says that I should know he doesn't actually try to win as town, but he focuses on third party, so my calling him out for that makes me scum. The thing is, I call him out for that every game - his attempting to call me out on it this game for being scum makes no sense. he's trying to use circular logic but it backfired.
I don't really know what to think of it.
Drazerk and S&B seem to be bitching at each other quite a lot and seem bound to use confirmation bias against each other.
S&B can easily misinterpret Drazerk's motivations for calling him out and I don't really know how much some of those statements are true, like "I call him out for that every game" and that Drazerk apparently should know that if he was town.
That's the kind of stuff that starts pointless shitstorms (generally between townies).
Unless there's a specific example of a town/scum Drazerk acting like S&B says he'd act then I can't think much of it (again, considering it's Drazerk we are talking about).
About S&B:
Hmm, I find your behaviour quite odd. You are not playing like you used to in Magic Mini (where you at least tried to contribute and appear you did, whether it was setup related or fluff), or in Can't Believe (where you started on D1 with lots of explanations and that seemed more aggressive).
I do tend to misinterpret your D1 behaviour though, so I'll leave it at that and see how you follow up with it. I just want to tell you that your D1 behaviour is odd (and so was your Can't Believe D1 behaviour as well), and I don't know if you are doing that on purpose or not.
You just have an "I don't care" attitude going on that I don't like and makes it hard to distinguish it from a scum attitude.
If you are town try to care more about the game and your own game please, unless you want me to start another pointless bickering battle with you 
Anyways, the people that I'm actually interested in seemed to have disappeared. Oh well.
Anyways.....tomorrow I have a test, then I have to go to uni so I won't be home in nearly all day, so I don't know if I'll be around for the deadline (don't really know when it is).
Just in case I miss it I'll make a placeholder vote on iamperfection:
##Vote: iamperfection
I don't have a strong read on him at all, but after rereading it's the strongest one I have.
None of his posts seemed to contribute at all, and even his ghost vote seemed "easy" to latch on. He doesn't have anything else to go on, so it's a safe bet I think.
Others I could have placed a vote on would be JingleHell, Mementos or Nisani, but I'm not sure at all about them. I really need to see how they will act towards contributing and towards the lynch, right now they seem passive, lurky and nothing else (I'd consider keeping austin/ghost/others alive until I get more info on them)
But considering nobody else has done anything in the last hours (in terms of contributing to the lynch, or discussion, etc) and everybody seemed to have the same "meh I don't really care" apathetic attitude it's difficult to assert if they are doing it out of a scum motivation or are just townies that aren't doing shit because nobody else is doing shit.
@Hiro: Keirathi's "plan" and reaction is not exactly what makes him town. I think he's fairly town for obvious reasons and people should know of them if they read the thread (they are too subtle to explain right now though).
Those reasons are some of the ones why I think you are town too for instance (won't dwell on that though).
Hopefully those that are still suspicious of you/Keirathi (ghost and S&B for instance) read the thread and respond back.
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EBWOP:
Mattchew, please don't go scummy lurky on us 
You started off good so keep it up, I want contributions from you.
Hmm, although you started off "good" on Can't Believe too and had me fooled for a time there, and you going lurky made it possible to figure out you were scum.
If you are town try not to do that, just in case it may be confused with your scum play. If you are scum I think you'll do that anyway (I doubt you'll change your scum play that much) so no worries.
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On October 01 2012 22:20 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 20:28 Mementoss wrote:On October 01 2012 08:53 iamperfection wrote:
@ memen why did you not include strongandbig when you mentioned that i did not include anything of "value" yet. Because the difference between you and him at that point was you were active at 3 different occasions in the thread and chose not to say anything. S&B was active at the very start of the game, and then never posted, theres a difference I consider that inactive. Anyways, needless to say, I really disagree on the meta arguement that you are town, by their point, it would seem that you are fitting your scum play. At least when you posted in Rockband mini you had a purpose and you're one liners had something to do with the important discussion in town. Here is the quote im referring to: On October 01 2012 14:35 Keirathi wrote:On October 01 2012 14:33 strongandbig wrote:
oh also keirathi i think you said you have a slight meta-based townread on iamperfection, could you tell us about his meta in your opinion? if you didn't say this then whoever did say this pls answer that question but i think it was keirathi. It was me. I've played with scum iamperfection in a newbie game a couple months ago, and observed a few of his recent townie games. In his townie games he is cocky, while in his scum game he was careful and lurky. I know it was a while ago, and that doesn't necessarily mean he wouldn't be cocky if he rolled scum again if he was more confident in his play, but my initial read was town. His play sure looks careful and lurker to me. Compare to this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250 where he is pretty agressive and constantly active throguhout the discussion from the get go. ##Unvote: Austinmcc
##Vote: Iamperfection its not my fault no one seems to give a fuck about ghost. Guy comes into the thread makes the worst case i have ever seen. Let me break it down how it looks from my perspective the sequence of events. Keirathi makes shitty case. (i thought it was shitty at the time) Keirathi explains what he was trying to accomplish fairly well. Ghost enters thread Ghost says keirathi is scum because he is trying to hard (wtf) Ghost say hiro is town because hiro is to dumb(wtf) Ghost abandons thread. Can someone explain to me how the fuck ghost can be town (preferably ghost) I see no town motivation in the way ghost is acting and i think he just tried to act stupid on purpose and skate by day 1 by using the stupid "oh scum would never act that dumb" argument. ghost is scum in my eyes.
Voting ghost is too easy.
I can easily find both scum and town motivation behind his actions, here:
Scum motivation:
-Create confusion with a terrible vote
-Act "arrogant" to avoid doing anything productive and get away with it
-Maybe use that "oh scum would never act that dumb" argument to skate by later
Town motivation:
-Thinks he's rough and all awesome and dandy and is trying to appear "cool" by using those "fuck you scum I don't care" attitudes many "vets" use in D1 hoping people go "oh ghost you are so awesome! I'm going to sheep you all game now" or something
-He's trolling and doesn't really care since it's the beginning of D1
-Like said before, he doesn't care and is just spouting anything that comes to his mind, whatever it is, without proof-reading or analyzing it before posting it
I can see why someone would vote for him and why you would vote for him, but something doesn't fit.
His "Hiro is town" post doesn't strike to me as scum at all. I don't think scum would call someone town out of nowhere without any scum motivation behind like the way he did, at least not in how I expect ghost to behave like scum.
He could still be scum for all I know, but I'd prefer we have some discussion behind it instead of going "ghost is dumb, lynch him".
For instance iamperfection, what do you think of the above?
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Yeah but ghost is not Palmar.
We all know how scum Palmar works, and that's a thing a scum Palmar would do. Is it a thing scum ghost would do?
(well, to be honest I don't remember him in any games where he was scum though)
Hmm, okay people, what do you guys think about lynching one of these guys:
JingleHell
Mementos
Nisani
CrossFire
austin
iamperfection
And if you'd switch to one of them, why would you do it?
Like I said before I have that same "weird" feeling about them, but again it seems none of them other than Mementos decided to show up to contribute at all.
It wouldn't bother me too much since it's D1, but we are getting too close to the lynch deadline and we have to choose a lynch.
We have like 0 information on the table, so it's VERY likely this lynch will be a misslynch, specially if there's some incognito scum in the group of Mementos/Hiro/Keirathi/(me lol)/etc that are driving discussion.
But fuck what else can we do, right?
I'm leaving in like 20 minutes and wondering if I should put my placeholder (or basically lynch vote) onto someone else.
I'm gonna eat now....so convince me people
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Matt, Hiro and Keirathi are all likely town.
S&B I'm torn off but wouldn't want lynched since I know he steps up his game after N1 (as seen in like all games I've been with him as town).
Drazerk is Drazerk, I see no reason to think he's scum and lynch him right now.
Yes, it's easy for scum to pick any townie from that list at random and point fingers, but there's no reason to believe him.
I trust some people here more than others, and it's the opinion of those that I'll take into account to determine my choice.
The "scummy" people would be forced to choose so I can see how they interact and contribute, but not to completely sway my opinion.
Well, tough luck I'm leaving right now.
You know what, fuck it:
##Unvote: iamperfection
##Vote: JingleHell
I don't really buy that "the world is against me" attitude and I haven't seen any contribution from him other than his scummy read on Drazerk (maybe his unvote is not that scummy, but it's the only thing I can go on).
Take into account that's a rash vote/placeholder, but oh well.
So long people!
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EPT
