[M] (2) SanctuaryFortress

On September 28 2012 08:54 Monochromatic wrote:
First off, I assume the Force Fields are destructible early game. I never used them, but I sure hope that you don't need massive units to break them.

Next, that center is the most imbalanced thing for terran I have seen a while, hide a CC, fly it inside, and get access to 9(?) gold min fields. Would take forever for the other races to expo there. You can also fly over to take your third on the island.

Cardinal ramps don't really work properly with buildings

The center is really open, that favors Zerg.

Also getting a 4th up looks near impossible.

On September 28 2012 13:11 RFDaemoniac wrote:
I do like the ramp down from the third though, pretty cool to have a high ground third. You'll want to check to make sure you can't get vision into the main for pylons in PvX and checking tanks is also probably worth it.

I think the harassable mineral lines that you have in the middle are a cool idea, but having this many minerals this close together, particularly in an almost island location, will pretty much exclusively be used by terran. Even normal bases that are mineral only are only useful to Terran...

@Mono, I'm pretty sure you do need massive units to break them, otherwise what's the point? I suppose you can burrow move under them, but that's not particularly interesting. Since most of the forcefields only make some chokes smaller I think this is okay and interesting, though not particularly close to standard.

On September 28 2012 14:33 Sepnova wrote:
I think if you brought in another mineral line on the low ground toward the center at each base and made each side expo favor each base more (make them less neutral), it would be a pretty sick map.

On September 28 2012 15:18 Qwyn wrote:
Hey, I would think about:

1. Removing the golds. Let the middle be open space with a tower. That stuff is just too abusive and not balanced properly.
2. Tighten up the middle. Make the map smaller and bring the main natural and third (a bit) closer to the middle.
--- I would actually tighten up the radius of this map a lot more.
3. Remove the forcefields from the ramp. This map is already big as hell - don't need another rush deterrent.
4. Move the main ramp so that it is pointing diagonally the other direction from the middle of the cliff - pointing towards the minerals. Move it up a bit.
5. Consider making the third ramp 1x1 so that it can be easier to defend the third with less units?
6. Remove the FFs from the 4th.

In general - the corridors of maps apparently need to be much tighter in SC2 because of the way (certain...cough) races work. Focus on making the map as tight and clean as possible and remove ANY extra space. Efficiency of layout is key. I like the faraway 3rd, but there's a reason why those don't really work in this game - at least right now. There's another great mapper who made a WONDERFUL map based off of Fighting Spirit - and made the concepts work really well. Take a look and see what you can steal!

The map is CD Quarantine Zone by caustic. Take a look! Notice how he tightens things up and is very efficient with space. He makes sure there are corridors so that FFs can be used properly. The main to natural transition is seamless. He makes the faraway 3rd work by using a 1x1 ramp to prevent busts!

On September 28 2012 17:36 RFDaemoniac wrote:
Part of the problem with making the 4ths less neutral is that then non-cross spawns become an issue because one player is expanding away from their opponent while the other is expanding toward their opponent. I think the neutral placement is good, though maybe having two paths into/out of them?

On September 29 2012 01:42 ArcticRaven wrote:
I fully support these aesthetics.

Bloom efffeeeects !

On September 29 2012 04:05 EatThePath wrote:
Yay FFs. They are a little overused here but it's a feature that should be considered more often! (Not as easy to use as rocks, sort of imba vs zerg requiring hive tech to break.)

On September 29 2012 09:55 EatThePath wrote:
natural choke should be 9-10 squares unless the map is doing something else intentionally. the other ones don't seem necessary at that chokepoint. maybe you should use 2ramps at the 3rd bases, and use FF there to reduce to 1ramp. and for the islands of course.

On September 29 2012 10:48 Drake Merrwin wrote:


I'm having trouble understanding what you are trying to say, so bear with me.

The natural choke is 6 wide with the FF, 9 without.

I assume you mean the FF and the natural choke are not necessary? or the ramp with 2 FFs past the choke with 1 FF?

Your idea of making the 3rd's ramp a 1 FF ramp got me thinking. Someone earlier said (or I think they said) that the ramp at the 3rd is too wide if you are expanding away from it. I think I'm remove 1 FF from the ramp outside the natural and put it at the 3rd.

I like that better than both being 1 FF wide or 1 not even having a FF. This means that players aren't as afraid of HUGE counter attacks coming at them pre-ultras/archons while they are expanding away from the ramps to their 4th+.

I'll update tomorrow. Night TL.

On October 02 2012 10:51 RFDaemoniac wrote:
It looks like they can still fit!



But good call you might want to reduce the count of minerals so that you can't get a HUGE mineral income for very long by mining after killing the rocks. Also you should playtest to make sure that those minerals can't be walked through, because it looks like there are some holes to me.

On October 09 2012 07:36 Drake Merrwin wrote:
v0.6 Fine tuning done to mineral fields. Fine tune the building blockers on centre high ground. Creep can no longer be spread on the centre high ground.

No more creep means no spins to fortify the high ground. PFs can't fit there till the minerals are mined out in which case that's the point. The only defensive fortification that can be made is cannons. If I try to block all buildings, protoss can't warp in because I think warp ins are considered buildings. Think this is enough because protosses don't make cannon seas like zergs or terrans do.