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ToutEstChaos
France38 Posts
On October 03 2012 11:18 Risen wrote: I'm going to sleep now, so I won't be awake for day post unless I wake up/can't sleep. If I die kill marv (not a joke, not wifom bait, kill him) Risen clearly targeted Marv, who has mafia. ##vote Marvellosity see yall later | ||
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ToutEstChaos
France38 Posts
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ToutEstChaos
France38 Posts
clearly not reading thread very unlike his town play | ||
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ToutEstChaos
France38 Posts
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ToutEstChaos
France38 Posts
Extremely cool, because it means you're scum. ShiaoPi is an analytical player whose ability to post cases isn't great, but he thinks a lot about the game and reads the thread extensively. Even for a normal player, though, the kind of slip-up ShiaoPi made is unusual-- it means that at the time he made this post, he hadn't extensively read the thread since the day-post, or hadn't thought about it clearly. This is not useful to town and not what ShiaoPi or anyone does. His statement: On October 03 2012 23:56 ShiaoPi wrote: There is still KP missing I think. Risen was not shot by scum (see marv's reaction lol) I have a hard time believing that both KJ and annul got shot by scum, much more likely that at least one of them ate a vigshot. Austin got shot and was saved. So that makes it a total of 3 shots, assuming a vigshot on KJ/annul there is one more mafia KP around unaccounted for (at least if this game more or less follows the pattern of other big games) isn't unusually stupid or anything-- but it doesn't follow a pattern of logic a townie would use. When he speculates about the night kills (showing a night-oriented mindset), he thinks mafia has 3 KP. Even if this is reasonable, it's set-up speculation on D2, and it's not pushing us in the right direction. I didn't get totally on him because I wanted to see what he'd do after the FoS, and that was this: On October 04 2012 02:28 ShiaoPi wrote: okay I am heading to bed now, sharing this before I do so: mkfuba07: First thing that struck me was the timing of the early game movements fuba did with marv. This + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 07:19 mkfuba07 wrote: I'm back from class and should be here until the lynch. Like marv I may have to reconsider KJ. If he's bound to give himself away with his actions pretty quickly, then I can wait it out. I never found his "spy slip" scummy, just his interaction with Kei where he seemed to be implying that Kei was scummy, only to follow it up by saying he didn't say that. It could be considered as an accusation and distancing, but it could just be statement of facts as he saw them. My problem is that I'm not sure about voting for kush or shady. I'm not a fan of how either of them are playing, but I don't necessarily get scum from them. Shady is being incredibly strange with his absence, but that's not in keeping with either his town or scum metas. I didn't like Kush's policy lynch because "shady was mean to me", but that also doesn't tell me anything about his alignment. I'm going to take a look at austin. I'll also probably think a bit about mementoss, just 'cause. On October 02 2012 07:13 marvellosity wrote: Your point on austin is way better though, BC There are a couple of things about austin: - he gives way too much thought and time to setup speculation and shenannies and can go off on tangents. So with that alone I wouldn't find him banging on about spy that relevant, except for two things (which you mention) - the fact that it specifies pretty damn clearly in the OP that all available role names are known to us - that's all he's talked about having been absent for a long time. If you're gonna derp around talking about setup and spy lololol you'd imagine you'd at least fucking read the setup first. Gonna give his filter another look. Anyway I'm gonna unvote kj for now ##unvote Only half an hour passes and fuba is here: + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 07:46 mkfuba07 wrote: What bothers me most about austin is what's already been said: he apologizes for his absence, and then follows it up by only mentioning the spy-slip. Is that really all there is to talk about right now? His first post of the game also bothers me. You'd think that since it was such a "fun night" he would have a lot to comment on, but for over 24 hours all he mentions is how something kush has said isn't as scummy as some people apparently find it. After that he gets trapped in spy-slip land, when that issue can be resolved by reading the OP. He's posted a lot (comparatively) and yet has said little except that he didn't find kush too scummy hours ago. Not sure if scummy or just busy+confused... While his vote comes later at around 8:30 timestamp, keep this in mind for the bigger picture. Now to his voting behaviour closer to lynch + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 12:33 mkfuba07 wrote: ##Unvote Austin's posts since returning have made me throw that vote out the window. As for Node's posting frequency, I don't see that as much different than his behavior in DN mafia... Does he normally contribute more? As for his content, I see the slight "lie" but I can see no reason to intentionally "lie" like that as scum. What would he gain? Of the two on the block right now, I'd rather vote for Shady. As I said before, I'm not naturally inclined to vote for him D1, but I don't want to vote for someone who I haven't seen anything scummy from. While I didn't see his excuse for trolling as terribly scummy, and I believe his absence could be explained somehow, the fact that he hasn't done it or actively participated in any way since his last post makes me want him gone. ##Vote Shady Sands He now is content with a shady lynch before switching it up again after half an hour + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 13:05 mkfuba07 wrote: Ugh, this is driving me crazy. I'm not a huge fan of any of the possibilities... I'm going to change my vote again. If we can get a better replacement for Shady I think keeping him in is going to be better than keeping Node in. I got completely screwed in DN Mafia because it was down to Node, myself, another pretty inactive player, and scum marv, and there was no discussion. I don't want to be in that situation again. Not sure if this will do anything, but: ##Unvote ##Vote Node Now why the hell does he bank on a modkill (that like in 99% of the cases does not come) and tries to lynch node again? Feels a lot like confusing town and disrupting us in the crucial timeperiod around lynch. After the lynch he gets asked about an update on Node and he gives out this: + Show Spoiler + On October 03 2012 06:25 mkfuba07 wrote: I'm still feeling really stupid for not being able to understand what's so scummy about Node's defense of Shady. There were plenty of good players voting for Node, and as town OR scum I don't see them voting for someone for stupid reasons. Despite what you've said before, I have been reading the thread. My reading comprehension being as crappy as it is, I can't pinpoint what makes his defense scummy. Did scum Node gain something from lying in his defense of Shady? Or was it just that he appeared to not be reading the thread, and is trying to participate with a minimum of effort/gaining some town-cred for defending town-Shady? Or something else entirely that I haven't considered because I'm bad at this game? ...(checking through filters)... ...And now, having more closely checked the the timestamps, which I incorrectly read last time, Node's jumped up quite a bit in scumminess. When I looked the first time, I missed the fact that the two posts (shady's last post where he actually made a read at all, and Node's defense) were on different days. I thought Node's happened within hours of Shady's FoS on kush, so I didn't really see it as too absurd for him to say that Shady had been pushing targets. I think I now understand why the defense was scummy (and I feel like a dumbass for not being able to read). Shady did nothing to warrant defending him, and the fact that Node defended him, with evidence that was the opposite of the truth, is strange. The fact that Node seemed to have reasons to find Shady town when the evidence he provides is contrived makes me think that he had another reason to believe Shady to be town that he didn't want to mention. Thus, Node seems scummy. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this feels right to me. Basically you can sum it up as "I dunno, he seems scummy" It's a great wall of fluff besides the timestamp remark. Keeps pushing node and throws annul into the mix as scum as well for being against the node lynch. Now after the nightphase resolves and marv is as good as confirmed scum through his reactions he goes after VE. While I can understand it (having made suspicions on VE as well) it feels quite sudden. No mentions of VE earlier and no more mentioning of Node. He also occasionally calls mementoss out (which is pretty easy to do anyway). Summarizing: I think there is a decent chance for fuba to flip scum, reasoning: fuba was more or less following marv during day 1 play, continued to try to push for Node but as soon as marv gets outed he switches onto VE with no more mentioning of Node, whom he previously had targeted quite extensively. What happened to your Node read fuba? On another note, BKE, what have you been doing all game long? Who is your highest read besides the no-brainer vote on marv? Although I give ShiaoPi credit for writing something, overall this is bad. Assuming, for example, that because mkfuba07 and marvellosity posted similar things at similar times they are scum together, is like super bad. Sure, maybe they were talking about it in their scum QT together and happened to post at the same time, but that sort of interaction in scum QTs (in my experience) typically delineates explicitly who will say what. Townies (or a townie and a scum) often say shit at the same time that means the same thing. Think about it: how many times have you been "ninjaed" in a mafia game by someone and one of you was town? The next it of ShiaoPi's case rests on the fact that mkfuba changed his mind a few times without making a huge amount of sense. He said this is "confusing town", but really, anyone who's played with mkfuba (and similarly incompetent players) know that this is in fact "confused townie". One part of ShiaoPi's case does in fact point out scummy stuff that mkfuba does: his node read is inconsistent later on, and he pushes it half-heartedly. This is fair point, and also the right point to end a case on if the other points are weak, made up crap that scum use to fluff out their post count. Granted, it's also chronologically the last point so it makes sense to go there, but the fact of the matter is, it is what it is. This line in particular jumps out at me as poor reasoning: >fuba was more or less following marv during day 1 play, This is not what scum does to other scum. Come on, you've all played scum. This wasn't a scum fuba following scum marv. Look at Marv's previous scumgames. He wouldn't let shit like that happen. This is a scared town fuba in a big game deciding to attach his lips to the ass of the strongest, biggest, most familiar vet he could find: Marv. ShiaoPi, you continue to fail to impress, and since I've called you out you've posted even less. Unless you want to be vigied at best you should respond properly to this ##FoS | ||
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ToutEstChaos
France38 Posts
On October 04 2012 11:55 Z-BosoN wrote: This seems pretty legit. I've played with shiaopi in LVII and it was a totally different ball game. He was low and quiet during most of the game and finished it with brilliant dead-on reads. I agree with our french (smurf?) friend that his line of reasoning is extremely weak and forced compared to his LVII play. Thank you for your thoughts, Z-Boson. I'd be interested to hear what other people have to say about this, in particular ShiaoPi, but also thread heroes VE, Kushmasta, and let's say... coag. I see no faults with the case on Keirathi, and DarthPunk is a beggar man anyways. | ||
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ToutEstChaos
France38 Posts
On October 04 2012 14:45 Keirathi wrote: I mean, sure I'm aware that I played a reasonably "good" scum game in that, so if I wanted to play differently I could. But would I really go for the extreme opposite end of the spectrum? From "good" scum, to terrible and easily caught? I don't even have words to reply to this with, so let me pose you this question: Would you EVER believe a player who used this argument to defend themselves? Be honest, the answer is "no" 100% of the time. This is a non-argument. On October 04 2012 14:45 Keirathi wrote: Anyways, I wouldn't blame anyone for wanting to lynch me tomorrow. I lost some of my interest after having to catch up with 24+ hours of two different games. If you're in a position where you can say this, you dun goofed. Come on, give me something to work with here. You've got tons of time, go write some cases. Scum of course would cite laziness or being unmotivated so they could avoid slipping or giving associative tells. I don't really know how to deal with these non-arguments of yours. | ||
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ToutEstChaos
France38 Posts
On October 04 2012 15:18 kushm4sta wrote: @toutestchaos THIS line in particular jumps out at me (yours not his) Why would that line specifically jump out at you if it is basically a summary of his entire case?? You just answered your own question: It compresses all the problems with his case into one sentence of horrible incorrectness. As a note, it isn't actually a summary of his entire case, just the first 3/4 of it, the bad part. | ||
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ToutEstChaos
France38 Posts
On October 04 2012 15:57 kushm4sta wrote: ##fos toutestchaos 1 manufactured case 2 pushing everyone to comment on your manufactured case The reasoning is located in the body of the argument. The sentence itself contains no reasoning, so how can that LINE be guilty of poor reasoning? 1) wrote good case 2) promoted town discussion 3) interesting that you exempted the line in question in your quotation. Allow me to reproduce it in full for you: On October 04 2012 11:32 ToutEstChaos wrote: This line in particular jumps out at me as poor reasoning: >fuba was more or less following marv during day 1 play, This is not what scum does to other scum. Come on, you've all played scum. This wasn't a scum fuba following scum marv. Look at Marv's previous scumgames. He wouldn't let shit like that happen. This is a scared town fuba in a big game deciding to attach his lips to the ass of the strongest, biggest, most familiar vet he could find: Marv. Huh, that's interesting. So your question: On October 04 2012 15:57 kushm4sta wrote: The sentence itself contains no reasoning, so how can that LINE be guilty of poor reasoning? Was actually already answered by the CONTEXT of the line that you cherrypicked to quote (twice I might add). What's the deal, kush? If you're gonna FoS a guy, at least do your homework. If you slack off how do you expect to contribute to the town? | ||
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ToutEstChaos
France38 Posts
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ToutEstChaos
France38 Posts
On October 05 2012 10:38 ShiaoPi wrote: The real issue seems to be you not liking my case, the other things are just what you claim I did to fuba: "if the other points are weak, made up crap that scum use to fluff out their post count." You are also directly contradicting yourself, you first acknowledge that my case writing skills are not good and then you proceed to call me out on a "bad" case. I think your FoS is stupidly weak and just there to divert attention off fuba's play. Regarding my inactivity yesterday, see top of the post... 1) I didn't say your cases were false, I just said your case-writing skills are bad. And they are. The logic underlying your cases, though, is always sound. You're an asset to town when you roll town. To be absolutely clear: You're a smart guy who doesn't do dumb things and has solid reasoning. High INT and WIS, low CHA. No contradiction here, just you making one up. 2) Saying "oh something out of the game kept me from contributing for a day" is meaningless. You know it's meaningless. Everyone does. | ||
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ToutEstChaos
France38 Posts
Stop treating me (and everyone else in the thread) like morons. You're usually smart, communicative, and have good cases. Where's that this game? What's with this sloppy defense? | ||
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ToutEstChaos
France38 Posts
It's certainly not something I'd expect from DP, but I don't think he's more likely to pull something like this as scum. This entire line of questioning is not relevant to actual scumhunting. | ||
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ToutEstChaos
France38 Posts
2) On October 06 2012 00:55 kushm4sta wrote: how do you know see that he's being sarcastic... it's obvious to everyone but you On October 06 2012 00:55 kushm4sta wrote: edwop how do you not see .... On October 06 2012 01:03 kushm4sta wrote: Im my experience DP is always like that. Why are you asking him if you already know the answer? | ||
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ToutEstChaos
France38 Posts
IGMEOY, kushm4sta. | ||
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ToutEstChaos
France38 Posts
##FoS: kushm4sta | ||
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ToutEstChaos
France38 Posts
On October 06 2012 01:17 kushm4sta wrote: I ask him because I know he's being serious and I want to understand how a normal person can be so dumb If you believe acting like a dick to him will cause either of us to get riled up and stop pressuring you adequately, you are mistaken. Your underhanded attacks have no effect on me! On October 06 2012 01:17 kushm4sta wrote: Who are your top scum reads atm toutes You and ShiaoPi, as should be plainly obvious by my short, action-packed filter. Who are yours? | ||
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ToutEstChaos
France38 Posts
On October 06 2012 01:35 kushm4sta wrote: Autism is an extremely broad disorder and the particular symptoms of it vary a lot. I'm sure there are some autistic people who would have a much easier time discerning sarcasm in person than in text. If that's the case, then why is your assumption that DP is autistic? After all, Autism is an extremely broad disorder and the particular symptoms of it vary a lot. I'm sure there are some autistic people who would have a much harder time discerning sarcasm in person than in text. You're intentionally being antagonistic and are actively trying to derail the thread. DP's right. You wanted to soft-defend ShiaoPi earlier, as I remember-- good work, I won't be voting him tomorrow. You're #1 on my list buddy. | ||
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ToutEstChaos
France38 Posts
On October 06 2012 01:40 kushm4sta wrote: my top scumreads: dont really have any great ones ATM Spoken like a guy who has no interest in town winning | ||
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ToutEstChaos
France38 Posts
On October 06 2012 01:41 kushm4sta wrote: Emphasis mine.It's not an assumption I just put it forth as a possibility. And yes I agree that this is derailing the thread.. unless you think im scum in which case its vital Are you even reading my posts? Of course I figured out you're scum. | ||
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