• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 07:31
CET 12:31
KST 20:31
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros9[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting10[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win52025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!10BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION1Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams10Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest4
StarCraft 2
General
RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win Weekly Cups (Oct 13-19): Clem Goes for Four DreamHack Open 2013 revealed
Tourneys
Kirktown Chat Brawl #9 $50 8:30PM EST 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment
Brood War
General
Map pack for 3v3/4v4/FFA games BW General Discussion Ladder Map Matchup Stats SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions
Tourneys
[ASL20] Grand Finals Small VOD Thread 2.0 The Casual Games of the Week Thread BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION
Strategy
PvZ map balance Current Meta How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Dawn of War IV Beyond All Reason Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Big Programming Thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Career Paths and Skills for …
TrAiDoS
KPDH "Golden" as Squid Game…
Peanutsc
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1241 users

Newbie Mini Mafia XVI

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
The_Zen_Man
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden202 Posts
June 06 2012 21:51 GMT
#17
/in
The_Zen_Man
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden202 Posts
June 09 2012 09:11 GMT
#144
Hey guys, just woke up(time difference suck).

I have read some of the grush-release discussion, and i can say that i did found Grush comment weird. Also some of his later post is also strange. I will post a analysis on him later.

But release, you are going against him to hard. You said it yourself before, that your comment is useless to anyone but grush. If it's like that, you should let others give their opinions about him, and focus on someone else for a bit.

Also, as to my opinions on lynching, i agree that in case there is a hard lurker and no scum reads we should lynch the lurker, as he is not contributing anyways. But lynching with not much information (like d1) will probably result in a misslynch. We still gain information even is there is no lynch, by observing how players act before lynch, what they vote for, reaction after lynch, etc.

The_Zen_Man
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden202 Posts
June 09 2012 19:35 GMT
#159
Lazermonkey seems to make his own conclusions about grush, without it being the truth, as ha236 stated. His latest comments about the "i wouln't be suprised" quote is strange. Grush simply said that the scum might be among the ones that had not posted, but you just jumped to the conclusion that he meant that everyone that had posted was his townread.

You also jumped to conclusion when grush wrote:
On June 09 2012 11:38 grush57 wrote:
(What case?)
Whats to talk about, seriously give me something lol. People are lurking? Yeah mlg is on and it's not even 3 hours
So your third post is this. Now you changed your mind. It's fine if people lurk.
[QUOTE][B]

Where you assumed his stance was changed on lurkers. I think he only wanted to state a reason for people not posting.

I agree that grush seemed scummy, but don't try to come up with conclusion that are not true.
The_Zen_Man
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden202 Posts
June 09 2012 19:36 GMT
#160
Damn, i really need to learn to quote, but the text above [QUOTE][B] is from Lazermonkey.
The_Zen_Man
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden202 Posts
June 09 2012 21:46 GMT
#189
[QUOTE]On June 10 2012 04:43 Lazermonkey wrote:
[QUOTE]On June 10 2012 04:35 The_Zen_Man wrote:
Lazermonkey seems to make his own conclusions about grush, without it being the truth, as ha236 stated. His latest comments about the "i wouln't be suprised" quote is strange. Grush simply said that the scum might be among the ones that had not posted, but you just jumped to the conclusion that he meant that everyone that had posted was his townread.

You also jumped to conclusion when grush wrote:
[QUOTE]On June 09 2012 11:38 grush57 wrote:
(What case?)
Whats to talk about, seriously give me something lol. People are lurking? Yeah mlg is on and it's not even 3 hours [/QUOTE]So your third post is this. Now you changed your mind. It's fine if people lurk.
[QUOTE][B]

Where you assumed his stance was changed on lurkers. I think he only wanted to state a reason for people not posting.

I agree that grush seemed scummy, but don't try to come up with conclusion that are not true.[/QUOTE]
Did you even read my answer to ha236? I feel like I have already answered all of your questions...
[/QUOTE]

Did you read my post? I merely posted my opinion on you, i didn't post ask question. But it is good that you answered my imaginary questions.
The_Zen_Man
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden202 Posts
June 10 2012 08:35 GMT
#222
I really don't know how ha got to be one of the "top" scum reads on this game. His play does not seem scummy at all to me. I think the best d1 lynch is grush, and then we can think about how to proceed once he flips.
The_Zen_Man
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden202 Posts
June 10 2012 09:13 GMT
#225
Lazermonkey, in my post i wanted to say that i supported ha236 that you made conclusion on grush that were not true, so it was bound to be similliar. I even said that it was what ha said in my post. Ha had already posed questions to you, but your answers were not very good. in one of your answers you agree that " might have been exaggerating a bit", which is basically saying that you were lying. That is not really a good answer.

Then, with your second answer, you argue about the meaning of grush saying "I wouldn't be suprised if the 2 mafia are in those lurkers", which clearly means that he thinks that the mafia might be among the lurkers, not that they are definetly there.

And no, it wasn't "LITTERALY" the same post, because if it had been that it would be one and the same.
The_Zen_Man
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden202 Posts
June 10 2012 11:14 GMT
#227
The case against Lazermonkey:

First of all, i would like to say that i am not making this in respond to Lazermonkey voring on me, but rather that he said that i did not have any ideas of my own.

On June 10 2012 19:00 Lazermonkey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 10 2012 18:13 The_Zen_Man wrote:
Lazermonkey, in my post i wanted to say that i supported ha236 that you made conclusion on grush that were not true, so it was bound to be similliar. I even said that it was what ha said in my post. Ha had already posed questions to you, but your answers were not very good. in one of your answers you agree that " might have been exaggerating a bit", which is basically saying that you were lying. That is not really a good answer.

Then, with your second answer, you argue about the meaning of grush saying "I wouldn't be suprised if the 2 mafia are in those lurkers", which clearly means that he thinks that the mafia might be among the lurkers, not that they are definetly there.

And no, it wasn't "LITTERALY" the same post, because if it had been that it would be one and the same.

The case against The_Zen_Man

So instead of writing ''I agree'', you took the time to write the whole case again? Not only is this useless and waste of time, it's also the way scum would play. You make it look like you post stuff of actuall value when it's in fact crap. You said my answers weren't very good. How am I suposed to know that? Because the concern here must lie in that you were unsatisfied with my answers, otherwise why would you post it in the first place? Yes I said I " might have been exaggerating a bit" but you are taking it completly out of context. I don't think you read my post very carefully if you said that. You make it look like I confessed that I lied. If you read the post this is clearly not what I did.

You give 100% the exact answer that ha236 did once again here, regarding "I wouldn't be suprised if the 2 mafia are in those lurkers". I have already said what I think about this but still you don't inculde it in your post. Why is this? did you not like this answer either? am I suposed to ''assume this''?

I don't get you ZenMan. You tunnel me like no tomorrow. But your cases are all crap. Either they are exact copies of Ha236 or they are over exaggerations and/or lies. None of that is good for town.

You think grush is scummy, but you don't add thought behind that at all. You also put soft defense for him all over the place, but is very clear with that you still think he is scummy. You even say we should lynch him and ''then we can think about how to proceed once he flips.''. Bandwagon much?

You don't think Ha236 looks scummy at all. You don't give any reasons at all for this. Still he havn't taken any clear stances anywhere? You don't think this is scummy? Is there a possibilty of you two being scumbros prehaps?

Tbh you just fucking broke my scummo-o-meter. You don't write cases, at beast you copy them from Ha236, at worst you say things without a singel reference or post to back it up. You try(intentional or not) to pull the action away from both grush and Ha236 by posting crazy cases on me. I am willing to lynch grush or Ha236 if that is the only alternative but right now my suspicion on The_Zen_Man is tenfold my suspicion on those two combined.

##Vote: The_Zen_Man


Now i would like to talk about your vote. First you say that i should have just written "i agree" in my post, which is what I basically did, I just referred to Ha236 post. But you seemed to think that i wrote this as my own post, which i did not.

Then you later on say that i "tunnel" you, after i have just posted about 2 posts about you. Once again you exaggerate a lot. This is a typical scum play, to make small things seem very big, so that they can build on a case that is not really there.

You go on to say that i put "sof defense" for grush. Where have i done this? This seems like a scum move also, fabricating facts that do not exists. I have stated my opinion on grush before.

What is also interesting is that not long after ha236 posted about Lazermonkeys's flawed logic and "exaggerating", Solstice came and posted a "case" on ha236, which was imo very weak. Lazermonkey then jumped to this idea. Maybe Solstice and Lazermonkey are scumbros and tried to start a bandwagon?

After i posted some more on Lazermonkey where i was suspicous of his post on Grush, he immediatly voted on me to turn the attention to me. This can be a scum move, as they can start to panic and direct the attention elsewhere

Lazermonkey later goes on by saying that i pull the action away from grush, but that i am trying to start a bandwagon on him. This is contradictory. Why would i pull the action away from him if i wanted to bandwagon him?

I am not going to vote for you because that would be to sink to your level. I prefer to stay calm instead of just voting for the other person, but you did rise on my scum reads.

##Fos: Lazermonkey
The_Zen_Man
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden202 Posts
June 10 2012 18:39 GMT
#240
Please don't call me KenMan again, i don't like it. And as to my FOS, i didn't want to just childishly vote for him when he posted against me (which Lazermonkey did), but rather see what other people think.
The_Zen_Man
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden202 Posts
June 10 2012 20:15 GMT
#262
Well, i have said my opinion on Lazermonkey, but i am still equally suspicous of grush (still don't know why people say i soft defended him), and seeing as the support for him is stronger than Lazermonkey i can vote for him too. But ha236 still does not seem scummy to me, and i would prefer not to lynch him.
The_Zen_Man
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden202 Posts
June 10 2012 20:42 GMT
#268
On June 11 2012 05:28 Lazermonkey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 11 2012 05:15 The_Zen_Man wrote:
Well, i have said my opinion on Lazermonkey, but i am still equally suspicous of grush (still don't know why people say i soft defended him), and seeing as the support for him is stronger than Lazermonkey i can vote for him too. But ha236 still does not seem scummy to me, and i would prefer not to lynch him.

YO ZENMAN! You have still some unanswered questions, remember? I explain why prople think you are soft defending grush, so it might be worth a look ; ).
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 10 2012 21:11 Lazermonkey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 10 2012 20:14 The_Zen_Man wrote:First of all, i would like to say that i am not making this in respond to Lazermonkey voring on me, but rather that he said that i did not have any ideas of my own.
That's cool for me.

Show nested quote +
On June 10 2012 20:14 The_Zen_Man wrote:
Now i would like to talk about your vote. First you say that i should have just written "i agree" in my post, which is what I basically did, I just referred to Ha236 post. But you seemed to think that i wrote this as my own post, which i did not.
Yes, that's what you should've done in this case. Can you mention even one thing in this post that isn't already in ha236s post?

Show nested quote +
On June 10 2012 20:14 The_Zen_Man wrote:Then you later on say that i "tunnel" you, after i have just posted about 2 posts about you. Once again you exaggerate a lot. This is a typical scum play, to make small things seem very big, so that they can build on a case that is not really there.
I don't think it's an exaggeration. You've made 7 posts so far(not counting the /in-post).
1 is about how you missquoted
1 is about how you think Ha236 is not scum(but this is a crap post as you basically only says that).
1 is your introction post
4 is about me
So basically you have two useless posts, 4 about me and one that is not. So 80% of your posts of substance is about me.

Show nested quote +
On June 10 2012 20:14 The_Zen_Man wrote:You go on to say that i put "sof defense" for grush. Where have i done this? This seems like a scum move also, fabricating facts that do not exists. I have stated my opinion on grush before. ##Fos: Lazermonkey
First you told Release to ease the pressure on grush. Then you also accused my case against grush of being bad. You are also one of the few people that havn't yet put any pressure on grush. This is ''soft defense'' in my eyes. You havn't said you don't think he is scum but if he flips green then you will be among those who looks least guilty.

Show nested quote +
On June 10 2012 20:14 The_Zen_Man wrote:
What is also interesting is that not long after ha236 posted about Lazermonkeys's flawed logic and "exaggerating", Solstice came and posted a "case" on ha236, which was imo very weak. Lazermonkey then jumped to this idea. Maybe Solstice and Lazermonkey are scumbros and tried to start a bandwagon?
It's intresting that you keep saying that the case on ha236 is so weak when there are already a couple of people willing to vote for him. Surely there must be at least something with his play that is suspicous? ''Lazermonkey then jumped to this idea. Maybe Solstice and Lazermonkey are scumbros and tried to start a bandwagon?'', so the fact that I thought there were something worth of notice in his post makes us both scum? eh...

Show nested quote +
On June 10 2012 20:14 The_Zen_Man wrote:
After i posted some more on Lazermonkey where i was suspicous of his post on Grush, he immediatly voted on me to turn the attention to me. This can be a scum move, as they can start to panic and direct the attention elsewhere

Lolwat. This is like the opposite of what I did. Your first posts was insanly strange and with lack of logic. Yet I didn't post a case on you. It was only after you had posted no more than 3 posts against me, all filled with crap that I wrote the actual case.

Show nested quote +
On June 10 2012 20:14 The_Zen_Man wrote:
Lazermonkey later goes on by saying that i pull the action away from grush, but that i am trying to start a bandwagon on him. This is contradictory. Why would i pull the action away from him if i wanted to bandwagon him?

I don't know, that is for you to decide as you are the scum : ). I can think of plenty of alternatives. This also adds up to my point about your indecisiveness of grush. You pull the action away from him, doesn't push him at all yet you say we should lynch him without giving any alternatives?

Show nested quote +
On June 10 2012 20:14 The_Zen_Man wrote:
I am not going to vote for you because that would be to sink to your level. I prefer to stay calm instead of just voting for the other person, but you did rise on my scum reads.

##Fos: Lazermonkey

Why so scared of voting me? Why would I write this case if you were a townie? Either admitt your very flawed logic or you should belive that I am scum. You did neither. And you even said earlier in the post that my play was much like scum play and also you thought there was a chance for me and s0Lstice to be scumbros. And yet you don't vote me...

I have answered all you questions. You however failed to answer one of mine. Why do you not think Ha236 looks scummy?



To everyone else: Why have almost noone commented on my case on The_Zen_Man/his case on me so far?


First of all, the reason i wanted release to ease the pressure was not to "soft defend" grush, but so that the discussion would not get more out of hand, and someone else say what they think about him. They filled up 5 pages of posts, and in the end of the discussion release himself said that his comment would be useless to anyone but grush, If it has turned out like that, it benefits the case if we get some fresh eyes on the subject.

You then say that i accused your case of being bad. You had a lot of flaws in your post, which we discussed before, and that is why i said it was bad.

I have from the beginning said that i am suspicous of grush, and i am pushing for a lynch of him now.

The_Zen_Man
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden202 Posts
June 10 2012 20:45 GMT
#270
If it gets to a choice between grush and ha(which it seems to go too) i will choose grush. I do not like ha as a lynch, but grush has seemed much more suspicous to me. If people feel the same, now is the time to vote for him.

##Vote: grush57
The_Zen_Man
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden202 Posts
June 10 2012 22:35 GMT
#300
Seems like people are going to change their vote for me. I dont really know where all of this suddenly comes from. I know i haven't posted a analysis on grush, but this whole thing with Lazermonkey has taken all my time. I planned to do it, but have just had less time for this than i had hoped.

When i flip town, please go after Lazermonkey

Lazermonkey have tunneled me for a long time now, and is for some reason dead set on lynching me. I think he is trying to get a mislynch for mafia, and when i flip town he will go like "Oh, damn. Well it's not my fault, he sounded really scummy to me." This will give mafia a free kill without putting their member Lazermonkey at risk.

The_Zen_Man
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden202 Posts
June 10 2012 22:37 GMT
#302
EBWOP: *If i get voted, and when i flip town, please go after Lazermonkey.
The_Zen_Man
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden202 Posts
June 10 2012 22:58 GMT
#323
Ha ha, wise words from scum, Lazermonkey.
The_Zen_Man
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden202 Posts
June 10 2012 22:58 GMT
#324
Release, you are now, Re lease
The_Zen_Man
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden202 Posts
June 10 2012 23:06 GMT
#330
Well, i said what i wanted in my latest post. Btw, the image is from assasin's creed not prince of persia. Nice theme though, loved the 3 first games.
The_Zen_Man
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden202 Posts
June 10 2012 23:06 GMT
#333
ShiaoPi, would you really have belived me? Besides, i would have been dead n1 anyways.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 29m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Reynor 378
BRAT_OK 87
Rex 58
StarCraft: Brood War
Hyuk 1208
PianO 1036
Last 317
Barracks 253
zelot 20
HiyA 15
Terrorterran 10
Sacsri 6
Dota 2
XcaliburYe480
ODPixel453
canceldota176
League of Legends
JimRising 470
Counter-Strike
PGG 154
Other Games
singsing1094
B2W.Neo792
Hui .159
hungrybox97
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL18108
Other Games
gamesdonequick757
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 41
• Gemini_19 5
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1977
Upcoming Events
Epic.LAN
29m
BSL Team A[vengers]
2h 29m
Dewalt vs ZeLoT
UltrA vs ZeLoT
SC4ALL
2h 29m
SC4ALL
2h 29m
BSL 21
7h 29m
BSL Team A[vengers]
1d 2h
Cross vs Sobenz
Sziky vs IcaruS
SC4ALL
1d 3h
SC4ALL
1d 3h
BSL 21
1d 7h
Replay Cast
1d 21h
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
CranK Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
BSL 21 Team A
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
SC4ALL: Brood War
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025

Upcoming

YSL S2
BSL Season 21
SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.