EPTI'm gonna be really mad if anyone leaves before they die... It'll be fun though with Marv cohosting :D:D:D:D:D
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hahahahahahahaha I'm editing for the sake of editing - In a mafia thread. hahahahahahahahahahahaha
Newbie Mini XIV
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
I'm gonna be really mad if anyone leaves before they die... It'll be fun though with Marv cohosting :D:D:D:D:D + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
Is this day cycle going to be an extra couple of hours? I only ask because it was in my first game and I'd like to make sure what the situation is. Thanks | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
On May 22 2012 09:08 Release wrote: You say that you are for a vote, but you state that your other vote was luck based. Considering you said "very luck based", doesn't that mean to say that we are not going to experience the same luck? If we don't experience the same luck, we will very much end up lynching a townie, which makes your "for a vote" seem like you want to lynch a townie. Also, why are you talking about the last game? You should be more concerned with this game and find out ways for pointing out scum rather than ways not to. This seems more like filler. The useful part of your post can be summarized by: We should have a lynch today. A no-lynch would be detrimental. ##FOS: Mordanis First off, let me say that I'm glad for your early FOS. I was trying to think of a way to get the ball rolling and I just couldn't figure out how to do it. Let me try to clear up any confusion now though ^^ The reason I mentioned the last game I played is because it was the only game I've ever played before. To me it seems that referencing my only experience is quite logical. If it doesn't seem logical, I apologize! My reference was only a way for me to explain what I thought and why. The reason that I said that I'm for a lynch today is this: I think that in 99% of cases, a D1 no-lynch only ends badly for the town. There's no real information that is gained, All we really find out is that the player who dies during the night was town. If a vigi shoots during the same night, it really doesn't give us much info either (all we know is who died, and probably only a slightly over 1/4 chance of hitting mafia). However, if we do lynch, then we pressure the mafia to either defend their scumbuddy or let one of their own die. It puts pressure on the mafia, and we have a chance to get out to an early lead. Also, I look at it in a risk/reward way. If we lynch D1, our risks are (1: mislynch). That's basically it. That would put us in a 5vs2 against the mafia. Our reward however, would be (1: information, 2: potential scumlynch). We would have solid input from everyone, from which we could at least begin to unravel who the mafia is, who the town are, and who the lurkers are. On the other hand, if we start without a lynch, we have to stat virtually from the beginning, only we know concretely one person who is (read was) town. As to your concern, I do think that we got lucky in my last game. We lynched one of the lurkers who seemed only somewhat scummy, and he flipped scum. This time, hopefully, we will have begun the hunt for scum early enough that we will have a much better target than last time. My hope is that we will have a good candidate to lynch. If however, we get sidetracked and have no solid reads, I prefer a lynch of the strongest scumread who is also a lurker. That way, if we are wrong, we won't lose a critical part of the team. If only a couple of people are active today and we lynch one, that's sending a clear message that we'll lynch the people who are participating actively. I think its pretty obvious to see where that path leads. That being said, there is not nearly enough activity yet for me to decide whom I would support lynching. As to the questions Sciberia asked: I'd really support a lynch for anyone that could get a majority of the votes. In some weird situation where everyone decided to lynch the best, most logical player, I'd try to get a no-vote. In reality though, I trust my fellow townies to be rational enough to lynch someone who is fairly likely to be scum. + Show Spoiler [written after Release's second FOS] + Also, Release: You're being very aggresive. Very agressive. I understand the need to get the scumhunt going as quickly as possible, but you've placed the only two players who have posted content under suspicion. I think this discourages people from posting content. Artanis, a player whom I trust, wrote that mafia are rarely aggresive. Based on that, I'll trust that you are just trying to get things stirred up. I just think that you're going overboard. We need to get the ball rolling, but we also need people to talk. So please stop with the extreme distrust for a while, and wait for a little while while everyone analyzes what we've just written. Also, I'd be very happy if you would be so kind as to explain to the rest of us why you're being so aggressive. If you really are town, then tell us, and trust us to be rational. If you're not, well you're certainly attracting a lot of attention. And please, everyone, get active. We need a healthy discussion if we are going to lynch scum today. If we have 4 lurkers though, I don't think we'll do very well. | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
On May 22 2012 15:45 Release wrote: EBWOP: I understand your post so for now: ##unFOS: Mordanis What is your opinion on Sciberia's post as a "post"? (i'm not asking you to answer the question, but rather to view it from a townie/scum perspective.) I don't see any major reason for suspicion. All he really does is say that he's for lynch and against roleclaiming. This seems like a fairly obvious stance. Then he asks us what our stances areon these issues. If anything, this is suspicious because there are a lot of words to convey a few simple ideas. That being said, I think it is a good thing to convey thoughts completely. I'd rather read a wall of text every 15 minutes than have no idea what people are thinking when they vote. Obviously we can't give any weight to the fact that he explicitly said he's town. If we did, everyone would, and we'd be back at square one, minus however many hours it took us to get there. Frankly, this is a newbie game, and he seems relatively logical. Even though I'll never be able to say with 100% confidence that he is town, this post reads like an inexperienced town. That being said, I've dismissed a scum from my suspicion because I thought he was just being illogical, so I'd say we should keep our collective eye on him. I don't see nearly enough evidence though to push for a lynch. On that train of thought, when do you think we need to start panicking? I mean this question for everyone. If we panic too early, we'll vote early and have little information for that vote and also little information for the next vote. If we go to late, we risk a no-lynch, which as (I think) everyone agrees, would not be a good decision. I'm thinking that with about 12 hours left, we should start consolodating for a lynch. Can everybody be fairly active for at least a few posts in the 12 hours leading up to the vote? One last thing: That is pretty scary timing Hegeo. You don't post at all for the 5 hours after the D1 post (which is in itself understandable, with sleep and such), but then you post (to defend yourself) 3 minutes past the first time someone calls you out (sort of?). The coincidence seems just a bit much. As someone who has watched (too much) House, I don't really believe in coincidences. | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
EBWOP: Just so everyone knows, I'm going to sleep and then I have a 30 mile bicycle ride in the morning. I may be gone as much as 10-12 hours. I'll try to get something in about 6 hours when I wake up, but I may not be able to if there has been a lot of activity. That being said, I really need the sleep now. 'Night All (except for mafia  )+ Show Spoiler + I love the Smilies & BBCode section :D | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
Hegeo has been very suspicious. To restate what I've already said, he did not post in the first 5 hours (in and of itself harmless), but then posted 5 minutes after someone called him out for not posting. He offered an excuse, but the most obvious explanation is that he was watching the thread, and had a knee-jerk reaction to being called out. To believe he began writing before he was called out, and posted after a few minutes is, frankly, well, let's just say its not a very high order of probability. The next question is why he would watch the thread without posting. I can think of no reason a Townie would do this. Then he posts this + Show Spoiler + On May 22 2012 19:54 hegeo wrote: Do you know more than the rest of us? Why couldn't Golden be mafia (and you)? I kind of agree on the fact that activity creates information, but walls of text (I take it you exaggerated to make your point) don't help automatically. But this was already said earlier, so I wont elaborate on that. Admittedly, it is. But if I really wanted to defend myself at that time (against what I might add?), I would have mentioned the post. Truth is I read Miltonkram's post after I posted mine, from now on I will always refresh the thread before I post then. Then he posts this gem: + Show Spoiler + On May 23 2012 01:29 hegeo wrote: Sciberbia bringing the heat via analysis, I like it. Hey Release, some thoughts about your posts, and why I think you're not always helping town with them: a) Even though I understand where you're coming from, this is kind of pseudo-pressuring people, which is futile in the beginning of the game. This makes for an anti-town-atmosphere, since posting should be encouraged. b) It's not the best case to lynch lurkers, but if they don't contribute to town then it is at least good riddance. c) You are posting at least a considerable amount of non-productive posts right now, e.g. to this post... ... your answer was this: You consistently do this "#FOS"-stuff and then, you FOS Sciberibia... ..before even un##FOSing Mordanis: To answer in your own words: Even though there are many players that have a way shorter filter than you, what you do is generating "noise" (not always, you have your points that I can agree with and you definitely contribute). It seems as though you either just want to stir up anything you can (because both of these #FOSes came to nothing, which would make you a little scummy) or I read it as an overly motivated try to get information. On May 23 2012 01:35 hegeo wrote: EBWOP: I forgot to say that I added the a),b) etc in italics and Mordanis already said that this kind of aggressiveness is not helping + Show Spoiler + (I was merely rephrasing this and putting it into my context). I'm very willing to change my mind, as we aren't even halfway through the first day. That being said, we need to have more and better analysis if we're going to find scum. I think it is wrong to assume that everyone is innocent just as it is wrong to assume everyone is innocent. We need to cultivate a healthy distrust of everyone, but at the same time we need to be able to work together to hunt scum. We need balance. We began too distrustful, we are now too trusting. We must find a middle ground to be successful. | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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Mordanis
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On May 15 2012 06:28 VisceraEyes wrote: Player List 1.) Release 2.) Miltonkram 3.) Mordanis 4.) Mufaa 5.) s0Lstice 6.) sciberbia 7.) O.Golden_ne 8.) hegeo 9.) ShiaoPi Replacements
2.) Inigmaticalism 3.) austinmcc 4.) 2/2 Mafia Remaining Mafia KP currently equals 1 7/7 Town PM me for the observer QT, or if you wish to be listed as an official coach only two mafia :D | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
IDK how many games you've played, but this is not a very high level game. It is not even remotely inconceivable that an inexperienced mafia could panic, and then make an excuse for why he acted that way. I also included a fair amount of analysis of his posts, which seemed scummy to me. Compare my post to Hegeo's accusation of ShiaoPi. I have one solid fact and a lot of solid analysis. Hegeo just points out that ShiaoPi has a lot of filler content. Usefull information, but not very deep analysis. Also, I was posting that as much to generate discussion as much as to gather support for a lynch. It's early on in the game, but if we don't start throwing some accusations around then we'll be mired in inactivity, while the mafia picks us off one by one. And I don't see anyone you are considering lynching in your post. About Golden, I played with him in our last game. It's nice to see a familiar face. That's the only reason why. Basic human needs and such. The last four lines are jumbled between what I said and what other people said. I didn't understand them. If you'd clarify I'd love to comment on them as well. One final thing: I think the whole passive-aggressive thing needs to end. I understand that you don't want to be lynched (neither do I), but just being angry at one person for the sake of being angry doesn't help anything. | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
On May 23 2012 06:39 ShiaoPi wrote: I am unsure what to make of hegeo. The one thing which seems suspicious to me is his timing after being called out, the other stuff could easily be bad townie or careful day 1 play. Seeing that I am getting flak for my style it is easy to see why he gets thoroughly investigated now. What stands out from his posts is the analytical part. It seems to be lacking solidity to make the longer posts which he does not really support (see: + Show Spoiler + I kind of agree on the fact that activity creates information, but walls of text (I take it you exaggerated to make your point) don't help automatically. But this was already said earlier, so I wont elaborate on that. Basing from this statement he must himself believe to have solid cases going with his "wall of texts", but in my opinion they are not solid at all. Perhaps I am biased, but in my last game I read one player as an illogical townie, and he turned out to be mafia. This was embarrasing, but I read part of the scum QT, and all of the scum laughed at me for that read. Admittedly, he isn't the perfect case for scum, but my pride is seeking revenge for the scum disguised as illogical townie. Also, the case against Milton is pretty weak (even though he can't match what malt can do to justify God's ways to man). Solstice seems inactive, but I don't think there's been a very solid case on him. I can't even think of anyone else who has a group of people actively being suspicious of. Honestly, they're all sort of decent candidates for a D1 lynch, but I don't see nearly as much of an argument for the others as for Hegeo. Also, I think that we should stop defending for other people. This may go back to my being burned by protecting mafia, but I think it will be best for everyone to post their own thoughts on matters rather than explicitly rebuting an accusation. | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
Anyways, I am actually a bit angry about Hegeo's response and the game in general, so I'm gonna take a bit of time off before coming back. Hopefully that'll make the quality go up a few notches. | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
Also, a perfectly formatted wall of text may be easier to pay attention to, but the actual content is the most important thing. Reading comprehension is important in Mafia. That being said, it is possible to disguise a lack of content with novels of empty language. I haven't seen anything like that so far though. And finally, I think that Release has pretty much posted a refutation of your rebuttal. I think you should try to explain your innocence. Right now, you're looking like the most scummy player by far. You still might have time to derail the coming train of lynch votes, but you'll need to do a damn good job at this point to convince me or (I think) anyone. Personally I have a particularly difficult time viewing your emotional play as pro-town. That being said, I also have a problem with letting someone who posts once in the first day off the hook. At what point do we take action? If we always say that lynching the better read is the best option, mafia could post once a day and win ezpz. IDK if we need to send the message today or not, but I'm worried. + Show Spoiler [On emotion] + Hegeo's play seems to be ruled by emotion. This is exactly why I waited until I could be rational and logical before posting. I may have overestimated the amount of anger in this post, but I still believe there is a fair amount. Whether this leads to him being scummy or not is hard to say, but the atmosphere of emotion may have contributed to the lack of posting in the previous hours. | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
##Vote: hegeo | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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Mordanis
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Mordanis
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On May 24 2012 03:24 sciberbia wrote: I think we ought to have another look at this marvellosity character... + Show Spoiler + On May 23 2012 22:30 marvellosity wrote: Current Vote Count: hegeo (2): Release, Mordanis Mufaa (2): Miltonkram, hegeo With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch. Voting ends in 10 hours. Yet to vote: Mufaa, Solstice, sciberbia, O.golden_ne, ShiaoPi. Current FoS Count: Many. I don't really count these obviously. He lurks all day, and then here is his first big post. I don't see what he's contributing, apart from arithmetic skills. I couldn't make a less controversial post if I tired; he makes no effort to help us scumhunt. And then he tries to impress us by making this big list, but what is he actually contributing? Seems scummy. He even ADMITS to not counting FoS's. I may not be the best townie in the world, but at least I keep diligent track of who is FOS'ing whom. Well marvellosity, here is a FoS you better take note of: ##FoS: marvellosity Anyway, in response to milton's post on shiaopi, I agree that his first couple of posts seem scummy. He was initially my top scumread based on those posts. However, I liked his defense to hegeo: he didn't sound scared and wasn't super defensive, but rather stood by what he posted and said he didn't think there was anything wrong with it. I still find his overall play a bit suspicious, as I stated before. I don't think we should lynch someone for being a "dangerous" mafia if they were hypothetically mafia. I think we should just lynch whomever is most likely to be mafia. Every mafia is dangerous. Sorry if I'm wrong milton, but my gut feeling has been for a while now that you are mafia and you've done nothing to really dissuade me. Release asked for votes so here goes: ##Vote: Miltonkram I'd like some more concrete reasons for your vote other than a gut feeling that never got changed. IDK this vote didn't really contribute to the discussion. What you think is important, but why you think it is at least as important. | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [Hegeo] + Since I left the other night, he's had some activity. First off, let me say something that I find fishy. His primary mode of defence seems to be to let others take care of the accusations toward him. This doesn't seem scummy necessarily, it just seems weird. Overall, he basically has only posted in order to make himself less suspicious. When Release switched to pressuring Milton and I relented for the night, he stopped posting entirely. This is selfish play. Town should not play like this, but it doesn't make him scum. What does concern me is the selfish play after his statements telling us to play more considerately (formatting, the thing where he said that Release was being too aggressive in a gigantic wall of text). I don't understand his play. He says that walls of text are bad unless they are 100% necessary, but he posts a wall of text whose only purpose is to point out that one player had been too aggressive 12 hours before. Since he stopped posting when there was no pressure on him, I'm very suspicious. For one thing, a townie should care about who is lynched beyond that the person who is lynched is not himself. Hegeo doesn't seem to care, going inactive right now. Scum on the other hand, probably don't care who's lynched except that it isn't a scum. Overall, I'd say that Hegeo has become more sketchy in the last few hours. + Show Spoiler [Milton] + Again, we run into some very illogical posting. His main suspicion against ShiaoPi is that Shiao is playing very similarly as him but a bit later. This is suspicious, but so is his play. Anyways, since the last flurry of activity, Milton's main activity has been one large post in which he both defends himself and attacks ShiaoPi. I think his case was weak, but he at least tried to do something helpful. Also, he seems to be a diluted Release, and as I've said earlier, a player who is much better than me said that newbie scum are rarely aggressive, and Milton's posting has been fairly aggressive. Overall, I'd say that Milton is slightly less suspicious than he was earlier, and his posting has improved. He still seems like a decent candidate, but my gut feeling is that he isn't scum. As I've pointed out before though, my gut isn't very reliable, so I would vote for him. + Show Spoiler [ShiaoPi] + Like Milton, Shiao's posting has improved a fair bit. Actually, as Milton himself pointed out, these players are actually very similar to each other so far. For that reason, I highly doubt that both are scum, as that would assume that both scum are incredibly incompetent. Anyways, since yesterday, Shiao did basically the same thing as Milton. For some reason these two just seem to be mirrors of each other. But the only thing is that Shiao is always just a few posts behind Milton. In a newbie game, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if mirroring another player was ScumShiao (shiao if he were scum)'s method of blending in. That however, is complete WIFOM. I'm just thinking aloud with that. My only thought is that if we lynch one of either Milton or Shiao, we should lynch the other next unless we actually get mafia this cycle (which would be pretty much gg, 7town vs. 1scum). | ||
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