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Liar Game Mini Mafia
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
Why you ask? The only thing we know of his plan is that it will most benefit him and whichever faction he belongs to. If he is of either mafia family then that side is now instantly ahead. If he is town then town will be reliant on his ability to properly distribute who is town and who isn't. Given that he also wants people to claim it seems off. Of all the day 1 plans his is also well the least pro town. It is the most pro palmar. Now as for how I personally currently account for day 1? I will play the game as honestly as possible. As such the question I have already answered. Trying to figure out a workable plan for day 2 is far more realistic than trying to force one down peoples throats for day 1 given that the first phase is only 24 hours. At this point with almost half the day fully gone and no clear plan established people are going to start voting as they see fit. The most ideal solution in my opinion is to look at the possibility of treating this game moderately as per a normal game of mafia. Set it up with everyone figuring out of the majority list who is most likely to be mafia and arrange the system to make sure only 1 person dies per lynch. Unless we are 100% sure on multiple people being mafia we should not be trying to arrange that more than one person dies. The more deaths there are with little to no solid information is just going to lead to a mafia win unless we get really lucky. As I would prefer to not win via luck, lets do this with solid analysis and reads. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On April 30 2012 23:13 syllogism wrote: I can't say I'm even slightly surprised to see you on the wrong side of a decent plan. This is off-topic, but perhaps you should stop joining games that have non-standard setups if you have no interest in actually figuring out the setup and utilizing it in the way that best benefits the town. That's the whole point. I have many reason to have disdain towards how that game operated. Keep in mind I have been on TL long enough to form opinions on how I believe games should be played. Playing a game attempting to figure out a setup and utilizing it in a way that best benefits the town is a noble goal when done properly. Palmar's plan is so far sub optimal. It best benefits him and the people in his "inner circle" per se. A plan that best benefits the town is one that takes the power away from one specific player and makes us work as a team and in the open. Why? Because this system is one that benefits whoever controls the lynch. One player should not determine why someone should be in the minority or not. Why? If any of the people he is talking to is mafia they can get on his good side and ride minority forever. If he is mafia his team can easily coast to victory as well, etc... By making the first phase of every day something you cannot predict it means mafia cannot easily dodge the lynch. More importantly, it will show patterns of people who are lumped together. Who always votes opposite of eachother, who always votes together, etc.... Why would we want to lose those things? I give props for palmar thinking of a plan, I shake my head as its not a good one. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
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BloodyC0bbler
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On May 01 2012 08:20 Katina wrote: There's no reason for Mafia to take that chance. You really think they can decieve people in PM's like that? Have you been deceived in PMs like that? People are flipping coins to decide votes, and I doubt anyone is actually listening to Palmar. Three votes for the same option is to obviously, especially so early where people are extra paranoid. They would try to leave a little of a connection as possible to each other. With that said, there is no reason mafia would take that chance. Thus we can always expect the 2-1 split. Then it's just a matter of looking at who is voting for whom and matching people up. This to me is a way to downplay what mafia do. Anyone who has played a game with Ace when he is red, myself when I am an active red, bugs, foolishness, sandro day 1, know that deception in pm's can be relatively easy. As such the expectation of a 2-1 split would make sense however it is entirely possible people vote in a block of 3 at near no danger to themselves. This is a very simple concept. Now, I say this is a scumtell as its downplaying a very simple mafia move, as well as covering up for the absolute statement she used before of "the mafia team will always be voting in a 2 to 1 method" This is an absolute. It speaks with a level of assurance behind it, thus one made with discussion with people. Only mafia would really need to decide on how they intend to vote. Ace so far is making a ton of sense, will continue to read now. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On May 01 2012 07:56 prplhz wrote: I'm very unsure about what's going on and why we're not going with the Palmogisfield-plan. Most of this has just been people not wanting to cooperate and I'm very unsure why. I'm pretty sure we could find a couple people that most everybody wouldn't vote for day1 and it only makes sense to throw them into the minority for more information (and hopefully better odds) in round B. Ace is doing his usual and very useless "you can't have any reads on day1" thing. Then he's like "I'm just going to be an asshole no matter what you do" which is equally useless. All Ace can do day1 is yell at other people for having bad reads. I kinda like Mr. Wiggles but I don't exactly know why. I also like Foolishness and Palmogisfield. I don't have any scum reads. I feel like you're all speaking in russian. I'm looking forward to round B because then I'll have five votes like the rest of you that I can use however I want. Dunno. Hi I am coming into contribute and post nothing of real quality aside from "i like bad plans". | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
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On May 01 2012 11:18 Ace wrote: Orrrrr maybe if you are Town, instead of worrying about proving you are Town you avoid the lynch wagon anyway? This game seems to be a fine example of what we talked about on irc during SS | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On May 01 2012 11:09 gonzaw wrote: Yes it's called pressure, what do you want me to do? Votes don't exist in this game I can't vote for anybody, just point out suspicious behaviour and call it out. I stopped reading at this bullshit here. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
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On May 01 2012 11:25 Ace wrote: You know what this is so laughable lets keep it simple: If all the Townies do as you say and jump into the MAJORITY who does that leave to go into the Minority? Scum. Which means the only pool that people can be lynched from would be full of Town players. Lol wow this is easy. don't forget that if mafia do the 2-1 voting system everyone seems to think is going to happen then they might be able to lynch one or two random mafia. instead of just townies. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
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One vote gives you results of where people landed via min/maj and one is hidden tallies. You should always pressure people if you can but blatantly lying in posts to do said pressure is retarded. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
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On May 01 2012 12:02 gonzaw wrote: What the? What are you talking about? I meant that I can't "pressure" wbg, or chaoser by "voting" them like you would normally do in a game. As in, players have 0 fear in Round A, they can't get lynched or anything, and without a plan they can randomly be in the majority or minority. And the "vote" you are speaking of is revealed at the end of Round A, so I don't get what you mean. You too BC, you seem active right now, so can you tell us what you think of Cephiro, chaoser, wbg, Ace, etc? Here are my thoughts on those players you were mentioning: About prplz: I don't see anything scummy with him for now. He keeps talking about "not being sure" about things, and discuss too much what happens with the "Palmogisfield-plan". He posts a lot, but doesn't scumhunt with them at all. I'm waiting for his thoughts on these last events. About Katina: I find it weird that she spoke with "reassurance" like you said, but other than that I can't make much out of her. She does seem very confident in her posts though, Can you guys add Meapak's other account in the filters list? Here it is http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034&user=263446 To Ceph: Even though both sentences have the same structure, they are not the same. Being "analytical and calm, taking pressure calmly, caring about the game and posting thoughts in the thread constantly and driving discussion" is not the same as just being "inactive". Argh. I already said you don't need to point fingers or make cases. Post your thoughts! Also, you are not Incognito or those guys that lurk all D1/N1 and then spout 10 gigantic cases in 1 post. You take part of discussion and post thoughts, just like in Death Factory, so I don't believe you saying "Oh I don't like posting reads/thoughts in the thread until I have a gigantic awesome case to make". Ace is ace Cephiro is annoyed at being prodded bugs is bugs Katina is scum etc.... Its day 1. I have already made observations on players that for the most part people have thus far ignored. Posting a ton of reads on people who are either doing jack shit or playing the game purely in pm's is pointless until they post more. There are also a ton of people who have generic day 1 play regardless of alignment that make reading them near impossible for it. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
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On May 02 2012 10:50 gonzaw wrote: I don't get why no one of you would even try to cooperate. At this rate the lynch could be on any of chaoser, VE or Sheth, and scum can choose whoever they like of them to save or kill, specially considering some players seem that they won't claim what they will exactly vote.. @Cephiro: Okay, so you are tunneling wbg now and being greatly aggressive against him too just for calling you out (effectively another OMGUS) Noted. The thing I don't get is why the hell Ace is playing like he's playing. I know people fear him and shit when he's scum because he's cunning, sways people, etc...but unless I'm missing something in PM land he's just completely useless this game. I even doubt he's scum because of that, but fuck he's being so uncooperative and useless it's hard to believe that. Why would anyone fear ace? He is by far one of the easiest people to deal with in the game. If you think hes useless lynch / shoot him. If you think hes helpful, dont lynch or shoot him and instead med him. As for pm land, it is doubtful he is highly active there as he is renowned for saying how much he hates pm's. As for general way thread is going at the moment. If VE honestly dropped a ton of votes on sandro he has to go. As much as I believe acting individually during phase A is ideal to avoid mafia manipulating the majority/minority system to always be safe, phase B is more important in regards to making sure the scummiest player or if we all agree, players are lynched. Anyone who blatantly refuses to go along with a decision that everyone was basically in agreement of (or at least if they weren't no solid defense was ever provided of sandro) then that person has to be dealt with somehow to avoid continued purposeful sabotage of the voting period. Sandro has yet to come in and provide a reasonable defense of himself. I say this as he made his comment on what he had been up to, but had not at any point then followed it up with any form of solid town sandro play to assure us our worries were unfounded. Has anyone new information on this? VE, why have you gone so suddenly appearing so damn crazy -_-. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
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On May 02 2012 11:05 VisceraEyes wrote: Tell me you're surprised so I can laugh mercilessly at you BC. I go a little crazy EVERY game. It's motherfucking endearing, damnit. this level of crazy? You were more or less fully coherent in storm, and at least went into your decisive reasoning in most other games even if only at minor levels as to why you thought someone was scum. -_- this just seems like a frustrated player purposely being disruptive now. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On May 02 2012 10:55 gonzaw wrote: I said he started tunneling, because it's obvious that's where that is going. Hey BC, could you come to the thread and contribute and shit? I know you are PMing with wbg because your votes were updated in the spreadsheet. takes time to catch up on a thread / on all the goings on in pm land after sleeping then going to work. If you expect automatic activity upon return you must not expect me to ever think about anything. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
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On May 02 2012 19:35 Palmar wrote: BC/Ace, can you explain why you decided to go for "No" in the first question? It was apparent that despite people not listening to me, yes was going to be the majority. Did you have a particular fear that being on the majority side would end up getting you killed? I had voted 2 hours into the day. Well before any plans had ever been discussed about. Why? Because my work days early week can easily prevent me from being home in time to vote and being able to find time to use my phone for it also isn't guarenteed. As for why I voted sheth? I discussed my votes with wbg before I placed my votes to ensure that only the two people the majority of people wanted to get lynched would be the only ones that could be lynched. As for you guys. Stop expecting me to be online between midnight - 8am est time. The only reasons I am ever awake that early are to go to work and I will never wake up with enough time to invest into a mafia game on those days. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
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On May 02 2012 22:25 Palmar wrote: So do you have a solid town read on Sheth? Do you have a solid town read on WBG? And feel free to answer my questions on your own time, I never said I expected you to be awake at night, just don't expect me to be awake at night to post questions for you. Why did you sign up if you didn't have time to play the game? Do you really think that being around for the first 2 hours of every phase is enough? You're going to be held accountable for what you do. I actually don't believe that in the remaining 22 hours of the first phase you never found the time to change your "no" to "yes", thus I'm going to be working under the assumption you did it intentionally. I need to figure out why. Can you give me your top 3 town and scum reads? I am unsure of sheth and bugs was compiling a list of voters to ensure that the only two to be lynched were going to be VE and roba. Nothing roba has done has swayed me in believing that he is town so I was fine with his lynch. I had mixed reservations about VE but as they were the only two on the docket I made sure no one else got random lynched due to lack of votes. As for signing up if I don't have enough time? I have been around directly after phases begin, and 2ish hours before the phase ends. Given that my work schedule is one that typically 4 out of 7 days in a week I can have solid amount of time to do things then It is no issue. As for signing up if I don't have time to play? You do not need to invest your life into a game of mafia to have time to play it. As for changing my vote? All votes are absolute and may not be changed according to the OP. No reason to believe that incog or ver is lying about that. I am glad that you intentionally view people negatively who follow what the hosts say though. As for top scum reads? Katina, prpl, and roba. Town reads are near useless to post so I won't bother. The game is about finding mafia not finding town. You merely get the advantage of the second as you start lynching / vigi'ing mafia. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On May 02 2012 22:26 Palmar wrote: especially given the fact you still had time to attack my plan, much later than 2 hours into the game, although you did disappear after you decided my plan was bad because you don't approve of that being how to play the game or something equally irrelevant. No plan in a setup as this should put all the power into the hands of one player. Period. You deciding who warrants lynch protection and who doesn't is not something I at all feel comfortable in. Anyone with half a brain would realize this as well. With the amount of kickback you had to your plan even you should have realized it was flawed. I should not have to go into massive detail to rehash what multiple other people have said. But here it is for you Any plan that puts one person whos alignment is hidden (as in no one truely knows your alignment but you) in a setup that is heavily weighted to put an emphasis on manipulation by town and both mafia families to control who ends up in majority / minority and then figuring out lynches and avoiding massive death in one of those lynches should never have 1 singular person dictating the information. Who cares if you are "responsible" if something bad happens. If something horrific happens town may never be able to recover because of how long it took to realize you fail leading / are red. Ace has said relevant things aside from his spam. This setup is one where you need to be an individual moreso than normal as every single person is going to be more likely to push an agenda. You had a very anti town approach given the setup of this game. Why would I ever follow that? Show me how your plan's pros outweigh the con's. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On May 02 2012 22:53 Palmar wrote: I wasn't aware that you couldn't change votes. This game is absolutely about finding townies, it's the best way to increase your chances of hitting mafia. Why do you think Ace is making sense? You mentioned him specifically making sense in one of your posts. I don't see him as making sense at all, I see him as worthless at best, scum at worst. You still haven't explained what you meant by giving me props for making a bad plan. I could see that working for a new player, where you expect them to fail, but their enthusiasm means they probably are town, but do you honestly think that if I created a plan that is bad for us, I did so unintentionally? You had people coming out in support almost as soon as you posted it. IE you obviously talked it through with people. It is quite possible you were convinced it was a good plan with their help or they opted to not inform you as it was good for them and not you. I said you have props for trying to organize the day into something non chaotic. Your plan was bad, but the try was there. Do I think this means you are town? no. I find it very likely that either yourself or one of the people you talk to closely is most likely red given how anti town your idea was. As for finding townies? If someone acts scummy you analyze them and if you still feel confident in that read you lynch/shoot them. The only role in this game who spending time finding townies is not horrible is a dt as every confirmed alignment "stress on confirmed" is important. Short of death or being a dt no one can ever confirm your alignment. You can assume someone is town and operate off that idea however that does not mean your read is accurate. It is far simpler to operate on the "i am town and until I find and kill the mafia I will view everyone else as red" As people start dying you're reads alter slightly and people have more likelyhood of being town over red based off their choices and thus become people you won't push unless things change. They could still easily be red. By concentrating on finding townies as well as mafia you are spending the game day 1 before deaths attempting to correctly identify 17 other players instead of correctly trying to identify 6. You can put more time and energy towards finding the scum if you concentrate on looking for them as opposed to concentrating looking for town. IMO if you are not a dt the only people concerned with figuring out a townie instead of a mafia in this setup is in fact mafia as they need to know who their competition is to eliminate whereas town just needs to kill reds. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
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BloodyC0bbler
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On May 02 2012 23:19 syllogism wrote: No the plan is only bad if the person in charge is mafia and he isn't. If you can't tell that he is town by now, that is your own failure but does not make the plan bad. If you analyzing the game and not finding townies, you are playing very, very wrong. I analyze people and put them in the "unlikely to be mafia at this time" category. As for the plan is only bad if the person in charge is mafia? incorrect. If he is mafia, believes one of his advisors is town who is mafia, if he is bad, etc... All make it bad. This game is designed in such a way via the voting mechanism that the mafia are going to be far more pro active than most other games. This means they are almost certainly going to be more active in either thread or pm's to manipulate townies / find the other family and get control of as many votes as possible. Why would I at anytime trust people who put forth a plan that requires me to take their word at "its ok guys im legit" essentially. Until someone flips you cannot know 100% that they are town. You can think the chances of them being it are higher than being scum, but that doesn't make them guarenteed town. It is far easier to just assume everyone is red and narrow down on specific players based on behaviour/performance. Once the reds are dead the town wins and you then know who is town. | ||
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