EPTNewbie Mini Mafia VIII
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
I would like to kick off this game with a discussion question: What do you guys think of a Lynch all Lurkers and a Lynch all Liars policy? This is often a strategy employed in games to get scum to talk, and thus be able to separate them from the group. I strongly suggest such a policy, because in forum Mafia we naturally only have the posts of the Mafia to weed them out. If they aren't talking or are lying we will never be able to figure out the truth. | ||
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
I found that in the game I played, Day 1 was actually the most decisive. Even though we killed a townie, the town had pretty much figured out 2/3 Mafia members. Odds are that Day 1 we will hit a townie, so why not get the scum to start talking and rather than having nothing to go off after the first day. @Yomi and wiliz22912 You confirmed right before the start where are you?? | ||
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
On April 12 2012 08:32 vonKlaust wrote: /confirm Imo, lurkers should be lynched if we don't have any solid reads to go on and we need to pressure lurkers to step out of the shadows. About liars, I'm interested how lies usually manifests in these kind of games. I mean, how often can you really know for sure that someone has been lieing? If someone is obviously witholding information or lying, I guess they would likely be scum and I would probably support a lynch(obviously depending on the circumstances), but what is the chances of actually getting that sort of hard facts? I would imagine that catching somebody red handed in the act of lying is something that occurs very rarely in Mafia. So, basically, lynch liars if it's obvious that they are lying and that their lies are hurting town, but don't focus on trying to catch people red handed. I don't think the chances of doing that is very big. And also, english isn't my native language as some of you reading this maybe already have figured out. I apologize for any typos and grammar errors. GL HF everyone! Lies usually manifest when there is a heated argument between Mafia and Townie. If you see a lie call it out, it forces a response from the person in question and gives us a better sense of their alignment. Its not the lie that matters it's the response we want. | ||
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
On April 12 2012 08:50 KharadBanar wrote: BroodKingEXE: How did your Day 1 start? Was it an accusation that got the discussion flowing or was it just random strategy talk like we're doing here? My Day 1 started with a discussion like this one. People looked at the responses and started probing. We had really good leaders in that game that were able to get a lot of people talking. We ended up lynching a lurker, due in part to a bad response. The accusations were really what reveleaved who was who in the end, but drawing those responses (and non-responses) was key to directing focus. Here is a link to my first game: Game 1 Note the Response from Electric Black and xtfftc(page 5 and 6). they are very charged and lead us to believe they were scum. EB later admitted he made a bad response in the Observer Thread, and xtfftc turned up being scum. Think about it, that is a 50% chance of catching Mafia, since there are only 25% mafia in town that means we win. | ||
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
On April 12 2012 09:19 vonKlaust wrote: I'm not sure I support pressure voting this early. Especially when you're so open about the fact that you're pressure voting. The game has been going for like an hour, and it's pretty natural that some people haven't posted yet. Also, stating that openly that you're voting for pressure kinda nullifies the effect, doesn't it? It's pretty funny that you actually just mentioned that this tactic ended up back fireing in your last game(it's even the same guy!) He should be open about pressure voting! If he is going to pressure vote shouldn't we know as a town? That way we know that KB is thinks Hiro is not scum and that he isn't throwing his vote around randomly (like a scum). | ||
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
On April 12 2012 09:46 vonKlaust wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2012 09:37 BroodKingEXE wrote: He should be open about pressure voting! If he is going to pressure vote shouldn't we know as a town? That way we know that KB is thinks Hiro is not scum and that he isn't throwing his vote around randomly (like a scum). To be honest, I just read "A General Guide to Mafia" and on the subject of pressure voting it says: So what I was thinking was that it would be better to wait for a while, since it's pretty natural for people not to have posted yet, and putting out a vote later when the person you're pressuring have actually made posts which you can use in your pressure-attempt. I can't imagine that you would feel very pressured by the kind of pressure vote KharadBanar made. Thinking about it, what you say makes sense though. I guess throwing votes around seemingly lighly is a pretty good way to get lynched yourself. I disagree with some of the things in this guide(for example theorycraft which can get very WIFOM). My idea of a pressure vote is that it elicits a response from the target. It doesn't really matter if Hiro knows or not, if KB has his vote on Hiro, he will die if he doesn't respond. Like you agreed its better we all know KB's intentions rather than making assumptions. | ||
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
On April 12 2012 10:17 HiroPro wrote: What do you mean by this? You say that lynching lying townies scares scum? I don't follow. Townies shouldn't be lying, what do they have to gain by that? If you see a lie you call it out to illicit a response. We have a better chance at getting a response if the liar feels pressured to respond. A a liar or a lurker is more likely to be scum so we target them if we don't have any reads by the end of today. | ||
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
On April 12 2012 09:49 Dittert wrote: All very good points that I did not think about prior to posting. I was just trying to get things flowing. As someone pointed out earlier, I saw someone suggest a seemingly "random" lynch in a couple other games, and in all of those cases the person doing the suggesting ended up getting lynched and being a townie. I thought this way we could get a discussion about lynching someone started without having to necessarily lynch whoever did the suggesting. I feel it's okay if I have a terrible idea, with this being my first game of mafia in my whole life, and all... We're all newbies at this game, why duck responsibility for your statement? And the discussion was already rolling why did you feel the need to redirect the topic? Trying to establish yourself as the topic starter after an active discussion was already going on: feels a little scummy to me. | ||
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
On April 12 2012 11:43 yomi wrote: Hi I just got back from lifting. I can't think of a more pointless discussion than the one we are having now. It is being led by Broodking, Kharadbanar, and Dittert. I have the most confidence in willz and to a slightly lesser extent arctic. I'm not sure what we SHOULD be discussing since no investigation abilities have gone out yet, but I doubt this is it. Getting people to talk just for the sake of it is great but my fear is that this discussion will bleed into day 2 when we will have some actual information. This is your first post, yet you do nothing to contribute. Why should we stop the discussion, it seems like people are already forming opinions on people based on the "pointless" discussion. Instead of trying to stop the talk, why dont you look over what has already been said and start forming ideas about the tone of the responses. | ||
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
On April 12 2012 12:31 yomi wrote: nothing to contribute? I am one of the only people to post something substantive, specific, and concrete. I have looked over what's been said and formed ideas. For example I think you are mafia. Anyone who has spoken so far has obviously contributed as you have developed an opinion off our posts. At least you have moved the discussion onto a more directed plane. Something I dont understand is why you think Dittert has contributed all that much. Others have seemed to post more about the topics than him (he tried to redirect the topic, but has done nothing since then). Speaking up more is more of a townie behavior. Mafia will want to stay in the shadows, so as to not give away any information. | ||
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On April 12 2012 09:57 HiroPro wrote: I'm not an idiot Kharad. Also, lol @ anyone who thinks Kharad's vote is random. He picked me because he wants to compare the response from last game to this game. And this entire conversation about how and when to pressure vote is pointless, considering it's already been done in this game. It doesn't make sense. If KB can see a difference in tone helps the town figure out if he is scum. I want to Hiro to tell us why he isn't scum. Until then I'm going to continue to think he is scum. | ||
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
Ill post in the morning. @Xatalos: Do you think ArticFox is more scummy because he has posted more bad posts, or because the bad posts of others didnt have as good a read? | ||
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
@Xatalos I don't like the line of reasoning you used to accuse AFox. Blending in and talking about blue roles also applies to blues as well. Newbie blues will often obsess about blue strategy and try to get input from the forum. Alternately they could try to blend in with the town.We can't really focus on the fact that he is mentioning blues, more we focusing on things like his accusation against vK. Its a flawed line of thinking that I won't condemn you for. Going off that... @vK The tone of this post is very suspicious to me. You offer no reasoning as to why AFox is scum, choosing instead to bandwagon onto the logic of Xalatos. The post reeks of suggesting you are being a newbie (I underlined the tones). Townies have no need to duck responsibility, their innocence will prevent them from being lynched. Mafia on the other hand will use their newbie status to duck responsibility if they make a bad read. On April 12 2012 21:36 vonKlaust wrote: Ok, I must disappointedly admit that I feel pretty lost. So far I think most cases have felt a bit rushed, but I guess that could be because I'm simply not used to this kind of speculative reasoning. I do however think that Xatalos case on ArticFox seems to carry some truth. If I would have to vote right now, I would probably go with this. Both the blue-talk and the policy lynching-talk seems a bit odd. I guess you could agrue that ArticFox could be blue himself, but it doesn't strike me as very natural behaviour to talk so much about blues if you are one yourself since you would desperately want to stay hidden. I'm not quite as confident about this as Xatalos seems to be, but to me this seems to be the best analysis so far. Some people have been critical towards Dittert and his RNG-talk. To me he comes across more as a nervous newbie(no offence, I'm pretty much a nervous newbie myself!) than scum. I think he's sincere about the claim that he was actually after sparking discussion rather than actually pushing for RNGing. + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2012 23:24 vonKlaust wrote: Oh yes, I care to weigh in. First off, yes I wrote two meaningless oneliners right in the beginning of the game. + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2012 08:54 vonKlaust wrote: Alright people, start typing! We know you're out there. So far only a handful of us have posted. On April 12 2012 08:56 vonKlaust wrote: Just noticed that the game had been going for 50 minutes. Lol, maybe I should be a tad more patient. Sure, those comments were not necessery or helpfull but I wouldn't really call my filter "Full of useless junk" because of that. I think it's pretty clear that I meant that it's inevitable that innocents get lynched, and that there will be people who makes bad reads, and people bandwagoning those. At least that has been the case in the games which I have participated in. Well, I AM confused. And I can agree that I come across as somebody who doesn't take solid stances. I don't know alot about this game, and I try to be humble to that fact. I say what I think, but you're likely not gonna see me write something like "I am perfectly comfident this is how we should play this game" or "I know for a fact that X is scum". That's just not how my brain works. If you actually read what I wrote the post before: + Show Spoiler + So what I was thinking was that it would be better to wait for a while, since it's pretty natural for people not to have posted yet, and putting out a vote later when the person you're pressuring have actually made posts which you can use in your pressure-attempt. I can't imagine that you would feel very pressured by the kind of pressure vote KharadBanar made. Thinking about it, what you say makes sense though. I guess throwing votes around seemingly lighly is a pretty good way to get lynched yourself. You might notice that this is pretty much what Willz wrote. He posted when I was writing, and thus, I didn't see his post until after I was done. When I read it I thought that he put it much better than I did, and therefore I added: + Show Spoiler + What Willz wrote was pretty much what I was thinking. In case I did a bad job making myself understandable. Please note that in the post I made just after Willz' post, I was elaborating what I wrote in an even earlier post. I was not just copying what Willz were saying. What does this even mean? He doesn't seem suspicious, and that's why he is suspicious? I don't think my filter looks as bad as you're saying. It is true that I haven't accused anyone, or said something like "This is definitley what we should do". But that is simply because I don't really know what to look for in scumhunting(escpecially this early), and I have no idea what to do day 1. Hell, if everyone hadn't trashed Ditters RNG-idea, I might aswell have concidered it. I have just been trying to keep the discussion going. On the topic of scum, I'll repeat what I said in my last post. I don't really know and I'm definitley not ready to set my vote, but if I had to go for anyone right now, it probably would be you. In this post you make counter argument whatsoever. If you think you did put constructive posts, you would have used those as counter-examples. Once again you go into how you were confused. If you really dont understand, we will call you on it, but it is a far cry from a lynch. The funny thing about this is that you read through the Newbie Guide, so you should have known about this. Your latest post was semi-reasonable, as Xatalos might still have suspicions but is choosing to go after AFox. @The Town: I am kind of worried about the state of the town right now. So far accusations have been flung at everyone in town. This is exactly what the mafia want: us to throw the blame at each other. My suggestion is everyone come up with a vote based on what we have heard in order to consolidate our ideas. This way there will be more pressure on the accused to act. I'm going to vote for Dittert. So far his only attempt at an accusation is wiliz. He states that wiliz may be lurking or working. We have far more solid cases than a lurker right now. His second argument makes sense, but he is missing the point. Wiliz thinks Dittert is a bad townie, usually bad townies are Mafia. + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2012 23:53 Dittert wrote: @Xatalos I think you have a decent case against ArcticFox, and I would feel comfortable voting for him Day 1 (as things stand right now). That being said, I am actually even more suspicious of willz22912. He's lurking now (or sleeping, or at work) after posting a decent number of posts in the first 2 hours of the game. In those posts, he says a couple of things that catch my attention. First, How does that not scream scum? It's not just that he doesn't want a Lynch all Liars policy (which would in theory encourage, or at least allow for, lying), but he dismisses it out of hand. "Don't dwell on liars" is exactly the kind of thing scum would say. Second, we have this gem: Town willing to kill other town? Even a bad townie (or a townie with a bad idea) is still a townie. It seems to me that this is a numbers game, and you should want as many people on your team alive as possible. I think willz22912 saw my bad RNG play as an opportunity to get the town to lynch one of their own, hence all the commotion about it. That ArcticFox immediately joined willz makes me even more suspicious of him (him being AF). He also flat out claims a lie, that could've easily been a mistake (his post against yomi). He doesn't seem to want to follow the way of the town (we have come to the conclusion that we aren't going to policy lynch). Overall I think he needs to put in better input for the amount of gunslinging he is doing. ##Vote: Dittert | ||
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
My last scum read is on Yomi, he has clearly built a stronger case against me, but refuses to vote against me. Is he afraid because he would have been at the helm of such an attack? I don't think much of his OMGUS reactions, I've had experience with townies doing that, but I will try and look more into those. I want to see what he does as we get closer to the vote. We have to becareful about releasing scumlists though, as they give the mafia can use them to guide their KP. | ||
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
My last scum read is on Yomi, he has clearly built a stronger case against me, but refuses to vote against me. Is he afraid because he would be blamed when I turn up townie? I think this is a good theory, but I want to see what he does in the coming hours. I don't think much of his OMGUS reactions, I've had experience with townies doing that, but I will try and look more into those. We have to be careful about releasing scumlists though, as they give the mafia can use them to guide their KP. | ||
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
On April 13 2012 06:44 willz22912 wrote: What do you mean by this? The idea of sharing scumlists is to build a consensus among town to reach a majority to successfully lynch someone. If multiple people think someone is scummy, there is a reason, and should be shared, even if it's misguided or incorrect because it builds/causes discussion. Mafia look at the scum lists and figure out who has the best sense of who they are. They then kill them | ||
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