EPTI am hoping for the chance to do some serious analysis in an active game.
Death Factory Mafia 2
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
I am hoping for the chance to do some serious analysis in an active game. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On March 31 2012 03:46 Mattchew wrote: lets do this! "...Leeroy Jenkins!" Could the push/pull system be changed so that it is relative to where the players are in the queue? So if a player pushes somebody above them that person moves up the queue and if they pull then that person moves down the queue. Edit: To clarify: If a player pushes somebody below them then that person would move down the queue and if they pull then that person would move up the queue. It would not actually change a players ability to move somebody up or down, it would just make the system more difficult to moderate or operate in a effort to add some realism. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
Going after the item would tie up a lot of the PoP's. Whilst there is a danger to the person being sent to get the item, anybody that pushed them over would likely be killed for doing so and so it would offer a 1:1 trade which would be good for town. If scum happen to have a hidden PoP then we risk losing the item, a townie and the PoP's for no gain. Voting system: I think that if we were to agree upon a secondary voting system then we would all have to participate. If say 10 people are using it and 10 aren't then another voting system would serve no real purpose. So if you are serious about introducing a voting system then we need to come up with one and quickly decide upon whether to support it or not. I think that today we need to decide how we are going to play the game and kill 1 person today. I think we should take advantage of the fact that we can carry out multiple lynches by having a mass lynch tomorrow while the ratio of town to scum is still favourable. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
If we want to push people off of the edge then it might be best to follow some sort of organised item grabbing move first, just in case the person we decide to kill gets the Teleportation device and swaps with somebody we do not wish to kill. If we decide on trying to grab the item it would then make more sense to implement a secondary voting system since so many push/pulls would be being used without having to be justified. I don't think we should try to grab the item. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On April 02 2012 01:51 VisceraEyes wrote: As it's been discussed already, there's no guarantee everyone would follow suit (regardless of alignment) and we can't just punish people who don't participate (because there's no guarantee that they're scum.) We can't force people to participate, and all it's going to do is cause confusion. The voting mechanic is confusing enough without adding ANOTHER mechanic into the game. You don't agree? Can't we just vote on whether or not to follow it? If enough people (let's say 2/3rds (13 players)) agree then everyone else would have to agree to follow it. If anybody decides to go against the town's will then we can incinerate them  | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On April 02 2012 02:10 Nemesis wrote: But the thing is that we will be policy lynching them. Both scum/town might go against the town's will. I'd rather not policy lynch someone based on refusing to go with the majority of the town. If 2/3 of the players agree and we lynch everyone who don't agree, that would be policy lynching 1/3 of the players for not following the plan. This plan will not work too well unless EVERY SINGLE PLAYER participates in it. Dirkzor, mind explaining why you find it odd that palmar wants to go for the item? well not quite, the other 3rd would be able to chose between following the town's will or saying "screw you town" and getting themselves killed. The only people that would be killed would be people that point blank refuse to act as town agrees. In other words the only people that would die would be people that had chosen to. I for one think we should have an secondary voting system! I presume that we would vote for who we want to lynch and we would then collectively perform pushes and pulls to reflect our decision. This will give us more control over who to kill. If we settle for free for all PoP-ing then the game mechanics could play a big part in who gets lynched and that may not reflect the decision reached by the majority of town. Additionally if we get organised and decide we want to kill players "X, Y and Z" then with a secondary voting system we can coordinate our PoP's to lynch them. It also means that players that have used their PoP's can still make meaningful contributions that they can be held accountable through their vote. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On April 02 2012 03:18 Dirkzor wrote: Lets just play the game with the mechanics that are already there. People have to use their PoP's in a way they themself find good. And if that mean they are wasting their PoP's left and right so be it. I found it odd that palmar wants to go for the item because I usually agree very much with his logic and in this case I don't. That and that he is nominating himself without explaining why it should be him in the first place or why we should even get the item. Trying to find a way to use the game mechanics to town's advantage is not something that can support, FU town Dirkzor less semantics more reasons please On April 02 2012 01:42 layabout wrote: + Show Spoiler [snip] + We are using the incinerate to kill people right? If we want to push people off of the edge then it might be best to follow some sort of organised item grabbing move first, just in case the person we decide to kill gets the Teleportation device and swaps with somebody we do not wish to kill. If we decide on trying to grab the item it would then make more sense to implement a secondary voting system since so many push/pulls would be being used without having to be justified. I don't think we should try to grab the item. On April 02 2012 03:12 Acrofales wrote: + Show Spoiler [snip] + I'm glad to see everybody is so busy scumhunting today! For the record, is being for the secondary vote scummy or townie? Just so I know, because honestly I cannot use pro or contra the voting system in any useful way as a scumtell. MrZentor: I think you're basically right. Pushing (or actually pulling) Palmar (or anyone for that matter) is atm a high risk, low reward situation and we'd be stupid to do it. Atm the only reason to push someone right to the edge is because we want to lynch him. Therefore, anybody proposing to get the item is scum. Cascade, Nemesis, Palmar, Layabout and Mr.Wiggles: why are you pushing a scum agenda? ??? | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On April 02 2012 03:46 Acrofales wrote: Ok Layabout, your posting is a bit contradictory. Here you say: This seemed to me pro-item-getting. In your follow-up you amended that. Fine, take yourself off the list, although I don't much like wishy washy behaviour. Maybe you can explain why you think my behaviour is "wishy washy" and why that is relevant. How is what i have written "pro item getting"? Somebody (bugs?) mentioned that it would be easy for scum to kill the person going after the item. I have written that if they do that they would either face a 1:1 trade or a free kill (if they have a hidden PoP like in Death factory). I also wrote that getting the item woud require a lot of PoP's. Please point out where the pro item getting part is. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On April 02 2012 05:05 Acrofales wrote: Heh, I thought the same as you last game, but I caught enough flak over my defensive response for most of D1 and a DT checked me out. Turned out I was really scum, so there might be something in it after all. I'm willing to give it a go this game. Afaik the psychological reasoning behind it is something like: scum know they're guilty and are thus more insecure when called out on it: they will therefore get overly defensive, whereas townies are more secure in their safety and will be more rational. There's a difference between giving a reasoned response about why an attack is groundless and an emotional defense. I see more of the latter than the former in Layabout's defense here: he seems rather anxious to not be called scum. Seeing as you are basing this off of the last game that you played played i suggest you go back to that game and see what happened on day1. + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=14041960 Then apologise to me. Then admit that defensive behaviour is not a scum tell. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On April 02 2012 05:33 Acrofales wrote: So your defense is a non-sequitur that you're innocent because you were lynched on D1 last game? Huh? How has this got anything to do with the topic at hand? Last game I actually thought town was rather insane for lynching you, but who was I to complain about town lynching one of their own? I used the situation last game to clarify why overly defensive play is a scumtell, no more, no less. Are you trying to play onto my sympathies by referring to your D1 lynch? Why bring it up at all? /confused. On April 02 2012 04:04 Acrofales wrote: I read that as in favour of getting the item, because a 1:1 trade is (usually) a town win (because more town than scum). It seemed to have the hidden mafia ability tagged on as an afterthought. But why are you so uptight about it? You seem extremely eager to be taken off my scumlist. I was told last game (repeatedly) that overly defensive behaviour is a scum tell. Are you scum? You originally called me scummy for saying that we should grab the item. This was false and i pointed that out. You then called me wishy washy and pointed at the post that led you to infer that i wanted us to grab the item. I pointed out that there was nothing in that post to lead you to infer that. I further asked you why you then decided to call me "wishy washy" and to explain how i was being "wishy washy". You then do not explain yourself but instead you call me scummy for being overly defensive. My response to this was to think "man this guy is an idiot". You then make this post in which you explain that you were overly defensive as scum in your last game and try to use that to justify calling me scum. I responded by pointing out that in that same game i was lynched day1. I was hoping that you would realise that since i was lynched by 5/21 players for no good reason and flipped town that i might want to avoid that happening again and that, that might be why i am being defensive. I was also hoping that you would realise that "scumtells" are pretty much complete garbage, and that somebody being defensive is an appalling basis for a scum read. I realise now that i expected to much of you. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On April 02 2012 06:11 wherebugsgo wrote: Other potential kills: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=324050&user=76576 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=324050&user=118447 This second guy seemed excited to play but hasn't done anything at all. What do you make of Acrofales? Bluelightz has gone quiet after being put under pressure. Just like he did in c9++ as the mafia roleblocker. He should be back at his PC soon and when he is you guys need to make him post. He should not be able to shirk off pressure by simply going afk. He is the best kill we have so far. it's not too late to post this: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Iy2BP.png) | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
claimed a 1 shot dt with 2 green checks on day1. if he is town and he flips then this will confirm his checks. So he would make an excellent item grabber. (but item grabbing today is still stupid. if his checks die and flip green then we cannot make a judgement upon him. if his checks die and flip scum then he has lied to us in a way that makes no sense as town and is probably scum. but claiming now reduces the chance that either of his checks will make it to endgame (where the check would be most useful) can we afford to leave him alive until endgame? also that pull has basically forced an item grab which could greatly reduce the PoP power of town or could allow scum to throwaway their PoP's without having to give us any potentially useful information. @wbg Bluelightz should only take 8 pushes to lynch since he should move over filled spots. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
I also don't view PoP's as votes. They are tools. If we vote on what to do we can then use these tools efficiently. If we use them as votes then they are likely to get messed with by the set-up and we will have less control over who we kill. For instance the starting positions will affect how many votes it takes to kill sombody and certain roles may require additional PoP's to be moved or might cause other PoP's to be wasted or cancelled out + Show Spoiler [cough cough] + The brutish Hulk Toy! You are a Good Toy. Hulk Smash! Not only are you one of the most famous toys around but you are one of the strongest! During the day pound the conveyor belt by PMing me the action - all toys except you fly into the air due to your super strength. Everyone is randomly rearranged on a different queue or might stay the same. You can do this twice during the game. Your PoPs are also much stronger than normal and go 2 positions in either direction. Welcome to Death Factory Mafia! You are the bloated Fat Boy Toy! You are a Good Toy. As the biggest Toy around you have some very unique abilities. You can not be moved easily as it takes 2 people to PoP you in the same direction for you to move one position. If you are PoPed into a full queue position you will throw your weight around and bounce whatever Toy(s) are there out of it. You take up both queue positions. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
It appears that risk is the Police car toy. If he is then he should probably tell us before we act because if that is his role then we need to use it to our advantage. + Show Spoiler [from game 1] + Welcome to Death Factory Mafia! You are the criminal catching Police Car Toy! You are a Good Toy. My my well aren't you one of the most popular Toys around? You're used to being the tools of little boys imaginations everywhere in chasing down the bad guys! That said you come with a homing beacon that can detect evil near you. You can trade your PoPing ability during the day to turn on your homing beacon. It will detect Bad Toys up to 2 queues above and below you by signaling a red light if any are in the vicinity. It will give you a false positive if at least 2 toys aren't available to be scanned. If you PoP anyone you can't use it during that same day. Once you have been PoPed your homing beacon will turn off. update note: This was updated to 1 position instead of 2. With only 4 scum and under 20 players 2 seemed way too powerful. You win by eliminating the Bad Toys. We will also need to do something about Palmar. We also need to decide if Bluelightz is really the person we want to kill since most of the pitchforks were out because of his posts from the first few hours of the game. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
24.[Item] [___________] 23.[___________] [___________] 22.[Palmar] [___________] 21.[___________] [___________] 20.[___________][___________] 19.[___________] [___________] 18.[___________] [___________] 17.[Mr.Wiggles] [cascades] 16.[Nemesis][Dirkzor] 4 pushes 15. [___________] [Mr.Zentor] 14.[VisceraEyes] [Bill Murray] 13.[Snarfs][Tobon] 12.[wherebugsgo][prplhz] 11. [Acrofales][layabout] 10.[Mattchew][Bluelightz]5 pushes 9. [___________][___________] 8. [Sbrubbles][___________] 6 pushes 7. [risk.nuke][syllogism ]7 pushes 6. [Cephiro][___________]7 pushes 5. [___________][___________] 4. [___________][___________] 3. [___________] [___________] 2. [___________] [___________] 1. [___________] [___________] we need to deal with palmar | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
Palmar is too close to the item to back out now. Since nobody has said they are pushing him because they want him to die, pushing him over the edge would simply be you deciding to act against the towns wishes. If Palmar were to flip town do you think that we would let you live after pushing him? Besides the longer we leave Palmar in the incineration zone the longer we do not know whether he will decide to flip or not (if he does have that ability), and the longer we do not know where to push our lynch candidate. I think we should be lynching Nemesis. Why kill Wiggles? | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
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