EPTClaiming Robin!
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BC's Arkham City
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Tunkeg
Norway1235 Posts
Claiming Robin! + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Tunkeg
Norway1235 Posts
Haha, join in, you could be the Turk to my JD. Or maybe the Dr.Cox? | ||
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Tunkeg
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On February 02 2012 22:02 Toadesstern wrote: *bumpbump* gogo we need 5 more people willing to play. Come on guys, you don't want this to happend do you... + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Tunkeg
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As this starts up at 4 in the night here I won't be able to write much for the first 12-14 hours. | ||
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AS DrH said so prematurely discussing Batman and Catwomen is a day 1 topic, which we shouldn't dwell to much on. Both (and Catwomen especially) getting lynched is good for town, especially if they are hitting each night instead of using their DT skill. But we will have a hard time knowing that they are a thirdparty, as any DT checks will show the role they chose to show, and Batman probably will look like any other townie/blue and Catwomen might apear more on the scummy side (from their posting). So I say lets just ignore the third parties for now and just scumhunt as usual, trying to hit red. Kenpachi townie claim He does this every game, and it means nothing. I find it much much more suspicious that people are making a big deal out of this. And rgTS reason for voting for him is the thinnest reason I have ever seen. It is not scumhunting, it is not applying pressure, it is just plain distracting. Bill Murray's mass claim On February 06 2012 15:52 Bill Murray wrote: That being said, I want to massclaim. It really backs scum up into having to fake names. It's a video game/fictional universe, how many characters are there, or would I be surprised? Are you joking? Massclaiming in a semi-open set up like this? We know what roles might be in the game, but it is not likely every role is in the game. Scum might have gotten a few examples of what roles are in the game (or maybe all?), and could then easily just sit back and get one of their members to do a fake claim. This would make the whole massclaim thing only beneficial to scum as: A) The blueclaims wouldn't give confirmed townies. Or if town belive this to give confirmed townies, a scum is now suddenly confirmed townie. B) Scum, Batman and Catwomen now knows who to target at night. We would maybe lose as much as 5 blues in one night. The whole confirmed townie thing would just cost us alot of townies, and these "confirmed" townies will be dead before they get to do any impact on the game. This proposed massclaim make me suspect be either scum or thirdparty, as those are the only ones IMO who benefits from it. #FOS Bill Murray | ||
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Tunkeg
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On February 06 2012 16:20 Cyber_Cheese wrote: Kenpachi's claim means absolutely nothing, just like it does every game... Sheth's gotta be scum, look at all that useless filler, and the games only just started. My activities going to be sub par for the next 16~24 hours, sorry in advance. Should be right after that though. I disagree with DocH, who's to know if batman/catwoman are going to shoot accurately. That's not a risk I want to take, when we could reduce overall KP and give ourselves more time to analyse instead. To kick off some real discussion. I'd like to discuss the Joker claiming ASAP. Sure he dies overnight, but then we have batman as essentially a buffed up version of the same role from that night until the gf dies. Catwoman's targets on the other hand, where do we balance a known two townie deaths vs potentially a lot more as the game drags on? At first I thought bad idea (I don't like sacrificing town powerroles), but after thinking it through I think this might be a good idea. Because if Joker is a standard vig with one shot he won't help us all that much anyways. Losing him would be bad in the way losing a townie is bad, but getting Batman completely on our side would more than weigh up for that. If Batman have any brains at all he would play standard safe townplay (after the Joker death), do DT checks and push lynches on scumtargets he had checked, to boost his towncred, all the way until he revealed Hugo Strange, which he then would just off, and leave victoriously. The cons of a strategy like this is if there is a Joker but not a Batman in the game. Then we would just lose a blue for nothing. But overall the idea of Joker claiming is a good one. | ||
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Tunkeg
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On February 06 2012 19:01 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Yeah I see it came off that way. If you read my whole post you would have seen that I qualified it To clarify I meant to say that it's not something that town should focus on throughout the whole game but it's a good way to get the ball rolling on day 1 and some players might reveal some less than town motives in the process. It is however NOT the focus of our game. The towns focus is to find and lynch/hit scum players not to direct third parties. I'm not contradicting myself at all. it's been in my experience in theme games that the discussion of role mechanics/third parties is so overwhelming that it's still dominating the town day 2+ and that's bad play This would be a good example of that. Because Batman wins off lynches, it doesn't benefit for him to work actively against us. Point out the guy you think is Hugo, don't hand over the vig to Batman. Trading the Joker for a 100% Joker kill that night/day is a good trade. Why would we out Joker to help a third party that has to help us anyway when we can keep our vig potentially for a couple days at least? That's not a good plan. He doesn't gain powers from killing Joker, it's just part of his win condition. You're assuming that handing over the Joker in any way helps us find Hugo, but it doesn't. Keep your mouth shut about the Joker, if you find Hugo that's when you speak up. Batman helps us in the end if he fulfills both of his win conditions. What if we manage lynch Hugo Day 1? Don't jump the gun taking stupid risks this early. Vig is one of the best pro-town roles Tunkeg, if not THE best in the hands of a good player. Batman is not completely on our side either way. Consider two scenarios: 1. Joker claims and is killed by Batman Outcome - Batman win condition half fulfilled, Town vig dead Night 1 2. Joker doesn't claim and Batman uses DT powers at night Outcome - Equal chance of him either finding Hugo OR The Joker. We lose nothing. We don't NEED to give him some kind of "offering" to get him to "help" us. If he wants to win he has to help us in one capacity and if he manages to find Hugo first (completely plausible) he is no longer a factor in a town victory. There is no logical advantage to town for offering up the Joker. Vig is a crucial role for the town to have especially late game. Well, there is a third option and that is that Joker doesn't claim and Batman just do hits at night as he have no need to DT his targets as long as both his targets are alive. And there is alot bigger chance that Batman will hit townies than it is for him to hit scum (22 townies to 7). You also have the chance that Batman gets Hugo first, and after this he will pretty much be on the scum side (while wanting to appear as townie as he can, as he can only be daykilled). But I agree we don't NEED to sacrifice the Joker to get Batman on our side. I think we are quite capable to win this without cutting a deal with Batman. But I belive it would be beneficial to town to do so, thats all. | ||
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On February 06 2012 19:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote: And why would he not shoot townies looking for Hugo? On "honor"? He can't claim so we can't hold him to it and he doesn't care if we win or not. He's going to either DT or shoot every night based on his preferences regardless of whether or not he hits Joker early or not. It will take him a bit out of the game sooner, but isn't this irrelevant considering no one is supposedly allowed to roleclaim anyway? I disagree. If Batman gets Joker early on he have no reason to just go hit hit hit. Him just hitting blindly after getting one of his target may just whittle down one of the allignement to a point where Batman may risk: A: Getting daylynch (chance increase when number of remaining players decrease) B: One side winning (causing Batman to lose if he have lynched Hugo, but not Joker and town winning, or if he have lynched Joker, but not Hugo and scum winning). So Batmans should hit hit hit until he gets one of the targets (or one side is getting low) and then he MUST DT, that is optimal for Batman IMO. | ||
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On February 06 2012 19:26 DoctorHelvetica wrote: That's why he shouldn't hit hit hit at all but use his DT power and only hit when he has a match. That is the safest way to play the role for the exact reasons you claim. There's no reason to give up the Joker Day 1 when we don't even know what Batmans going to do and I can tell you already if he's a smart player he's going to use the DT I agree Batman should DT mid to late game. But for the first 2-3 nights he should just hit. I belive that trading the Joker for either getting Batman to be on the townside or getting Hugo killed (if that happends very soon after Joker death) is a good deal for town. As I have said before, if Batman gets Joker he can pretty much play a very pro-town standard game, as he then basicly wins with town, and he only loses by scum winning or him getting lynched. He will then push pro-town lynches all the way until he gets Hugo, as he he can't be lynched by night, and playing pro-town (even revealing some of his DT checks as XX is town, or YY is scum basicly softclaiming DT) so he won't get lynched by town during the day. | ||
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Tunkeg
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On February 06 2012 19:50 Tobberoth wrote: Shouldn't it be the other way around? In the first days, there's little to go on, so all his hits will be blind and he'll just lower the amount of players for nothing since he doesn't know what he will hit. Sounds to me like a better idea to use the safe period of the early game to DT and get a feel for what players he needs to hit/not hit later. If Batman hits players randomly in the first few days, there's a risk he'll kill of scums which is bad for him since it gives the town a much better chance to kill off the scum before Batman gets the joker. Later in the game, discussions have probably led to clues so he can more easily hit townies directly when looking for the joker. Seems to me that by logic, batman should be most dangerous for townies the later we get in the game without joker being killed, while it should be decently safe early on. Well, both your way, Dr H's way and my way might all be viable strategies for Batman, it depends on many things though. My way: Early hits is pretty safe for Batman as both factions are far from elimination. Therefor my logic is that he might as well just hit and try his luck instead of DT the ones he suspects and then later hit them. Dr H's way: DT all the way until he finds his targets. Secure that Batman don't help any faction, and is the safer option as he won't whittle away any of the factions. It might take longer for Batman to secure his objectives compared to my way, but it is definatly safer. Your way: DT early and hit late makes Batmans hit more accurate as he have less people to chose from. But this is the most risky strat of it all for Batman IMO. Cause if Batman misshit lategame he might just end the game. Well, now I have rambled on long enough about the Joker claim thing. I think all of you know where I stand and why. Unless someone want me to clarify more on my stance I will just leave this for now, so other topics may be discussed or others might put in their two cents on the Joker claim thing. | ||
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Tunkeg
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On February 06 2012 21:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I'm voting for you because of this quote: No way you're that wishy washy if you're convinced your plan is pro-town, especially when it concerns the life of a blue? You're just distancing yourself from the heat now. I'm voting for you Day 1, I was gonna vote for Kpach because we need to stop letting him get away with this "hehe im just dumb i always claim green day 1  im not mafia just stupid" act he does in every single game, but that just really rustles my jimmies right there. Vaguest empty statement I've seen in this game so far.So you are voting me because I think Batman could do all these three things, and that I am contradicting myself by saying so? I am even saying in my post that I think my strat is best for Batman, yours are safest and Tobberoth most risky. My view on the Joker claim isn't wishy washy at all, I've said it many times that I think it is more pros than cons in having a Joker claim and death and a Batman who is scumhunting only. | ||
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On February 06 2012 22:14 DoctorHelvetica wrote: You didn't mention the joker claim in "my way" you just said batman should shoot the first few days which is completely anti-town as it is. Your plan is anti-town but you're not willing to commit to it, that's why I'm voting for you. I don't even have a plan I'm just pointing out the flaws in Cyber_Cheese's grand scheme. If Batman has any sense and other people have already pointed out that it makes even less sense for him to use his KP earlier than later. I don't know if this is OMGUS or a horrible horrible misunderstanding of what Adam posted. Hopefully it's not a language barrier issue. He didn't seriously claim he knows what team anyone is on, he's using the random vote which is viable this early in the game and making a lighthearted joke about it. That's really not scummy. You had a layout for optimal Batman play, and I had one as well (and my plan for Batman beeing antitown, yes it is, and anti scum as well, Batman is thrid party you know). I was not looking to explain Batman play from a town perspective, from a town perspective your layout is far the best, but I don't think Batman gives a rats ass about how town does it. He wants his to kills and thats it, he will use a strategy that is optimal for himself. Us giving him Joker would lead Batman to only play anti-scum. Yeah, you try to point out the flaws, I try to point out what would be good about such a claim. I am sticking to my view on the Joker claim, where have I done anything else? If you say it is my "Batman plan" that is anti-town and I am not sticking to it, well I have allready said that Batman don't care if his play (night time choices) are anti-town, and I am saying I think my layout for Batman (from Batmans perspective) is the best. But I do not know what Batman will chose, and therefor I write that all three choices are viable strategies. | ||
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On February 06 2012 22:13 Forumite wrote: Tunkeg, setup-discussion doesn´t help Town, takes too much time and energy from scumhunting, and allow scum to blend in. Instead, could you tell me what you think about the other players? What do you think about VE, Kenpachi, and rgTheSchworz? Kenpachi and rgTS I think I said my view on in my opening post: On February 06 2012 18:23 Tunkeg wrote: Batman/Catwomen AS DrH said so prematurely discussing Batman and Catwomen is a day 1 topic, which we shouldn't dwell to much on. Both (and Catwomen especially) getting lynched is good for town, especially if they are hitting each night instead of using their DT skill. But we will have a hard time knowing that they are a thirdparty, as any DT checks will show the role they chose to show, and Batman probably will look like any other townie/blue and Catwomen might apear more on the scummy side (from their posting). So I say lets just ignore the third parties for now and just scumhunt as usual, trying to hit red. Kenpachi townie claim He does this every game, and it means nothing. I find it much much more suspicious that people are making a big deal out of this. And rgTS reason for voting for him is the thinnest reason I have ever seen. It is not scumhunting, it is not applying pressure, it is just plain distracting. Bill Murray's mass claim Are you joking? Massclaiming in a semi-open set up like this? We know what roles might be in the game, but it is not likely every role is in the game. Scum might have gotten a few examples of what roles are in the game (or maybe all?), and could then easily just sit back and get one of their members to do a fake claim. This would make the whole massclaim thing only beneficial to scum as: A) The blueclaims wouldn't give confirmed townies. Or if town belive this to give confirmed townies, a scum is now suddenly confirmed townie. B) Scum, Batman and Catwomen now knows who to target at night. We would maybe lose as much as 5 blues in one night. The whole confirmed townie thing would just cost us alot of townies, and these "confirmed" townies will be dead before they get to do any impact on the game. This proposed massclaim make me suspect be either scum or thirdparty, as those are the only ones IMO who benefits from it. #FOS Bill Murray But I don't really see why people are voting for either one of them as of now. Sure I don't agree on rgTS vote on kenpachi and his reasoning behind it (RnG and stuff), but to go from there to him beeing scum is a bit far fetched. VE haven't posted more then one post thus far and I have no opinion on him what so ever. | ||
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Bill Murray Just fluff, a silly massclaim proposal (must be a joke) and a weakass vote for kenpachi. layabout He is just beeing his lovely sarcastic self. Thus far he have only been posting smirk comments and useless crap. As I know him from Student mafia, he is a total prick, but that is ok, because he actually was playing a great town game. This time around he is just a useless prick. Time to step up man? Palmar The guy with the biggest ego on the whole internetz. Also just posting crap and beeing an ass in general thus far. Basicly just OMGUS'ing everyone and trolling around. His longest fucking post is the lyrics of Don't you cry tonight, rest is just crap. He have been the one sucking the most today, and thats why I give him the Fluffer of the day award. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/M2qA2.jpg) | ||
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On February 07 2012 07:19 layabout wrote: glad you asked: the names above the key are there because there was no room below the key. that picture will become my primary tool for scumhunting in this and quite likely furture games. it is similar in essence to a Nisani "node graph" but is better because it is in paint. You also prompted me to add a new section for those players that i just cannot read I present Arkham city V 2.0.1.png: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/i9O8W.png) Is this some new crap like your Bullshitformula in Purgetory where you were scum? | ||
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On February 07 2012 07:23 Slardar wrote: *unrelated to this game* TUNKEG - You better edit out that picture, before you get the hammer in the nuts. Why, it is a real trophy received at a golf tournement. If it is offensive I will ask the host of the game of permission to delete it though. | ||
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On February 07 2012 07:47 Palmar wrote: @layabout, you don't have the street cred to call people dumb yet. If it wasn't for your pretty awesome categorizing shit I'd say VE's contributions are worth more than yours. @Tunkeg, ironically, I've said more important shit than you. Also, I'm totally fine with killing bugs, because it's hilarious to kill him day 1. In addition, he's great scum, and his reads as town tend to suck UNTIL he's dead. When he's dead he goes on a observer topic rampage and figures out scum in no time. So killing him is best for everyone. Ironically this kind of crap comeback is what you allways pull. "Well, I am better than you anyways", "I have done shit tons more than you anyway", "Don't critcize me cause I am the best ever at this game". You haven't done shit in this game and you know it. I have at least given people a chance to get a read on me, you are just trolling. So is this the clueless scum Palmar that is playing or the careless town Palmar? | ||
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Reason 1: He have only been dicking around. Not posting anything of value (well, this is the case for many players you might say. Reason 2: He is creating "tools" for scumhunting that is totally useless (funny, yeah, maybe, depends). Exactly like he did with his Bullshit formula in Purgatory, where he was scum: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298603¤tpage=74#1464 Layabout is the first to point out anything he sees as bad, crappy, stupid etc etc. And from my limited knowledge of his play I think his scumhunting is pretty good. So for him to post such distracting crap like this I see as scummy. Reason 3 He is scared. I have called him out twice (three times counting this post) allready and he haven't talked back. What's up with that mister superaggressive? Is it because you know I am the king of tunneling, and as scum don't want this kind of attention? I think a layabout town would go straight for my throat after these posts. He is just sitting back and taking it. Come out, bring your a-game, be your obnoxious scumhunting SOB layabout townie, or face the hangman tonight as the fooling around scum layabout. #Vote: layabout | ||
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On February 08 2012 01:16 layabout wrote: + Show Spoiler [For JJ] + Radfield past games http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291720&user=52884 Election Mafia http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291212&user=52884 TL Mafia XLVIII http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690&user=52884 TL Mafia XLVII http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=281403&user=52884 Team Melee Mini Mafia - Couples Therapy http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=269956&user=52884 Pick Your Power Interesting! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=264699&user=52884 Lord of the Rings Mafia http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=240842&user=52884 Merc Mini 2 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=235762&user=52884 Closed Casket Mafia http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=218973&user=52884 Pick Your Power Insane! remember how in student we had a little "falling out"? i think you need to remember that what happens in the thread stays in thread and you should not let your (admittedly justifiable) hatred of me make you see red where there is none. None of the reasons you have given have any relation to my alignment. I have only one rule: Be Polite. You should not have called my a prick. It's bullying. I was hoping that by ignoring you you would go away. If anything this game i have tried to be a sort-of "lovable arsehole", sure i am a bit of a prick but i am a prick with a smile. That bullshit formula was and is an effective means to hunt scum that should be more successful than the average TL town. Why are you trying to draw parallels between my play in that game and my play in this one. I made that post because i was frustrated and had WAY too much time on my hands. In that game i threw effort at the thread, in this game i have been useless and fairly neutral in my posting. Nevertheless how is that post (the MS paint pic) indicative of my alignment? I wonder how not responding shows that i am "scared". Tunkeg you called me useless (i have been) and you criticised my bullshit formula. I didn't think it was worth responding to. You then threw a vote on me which has prompted a response but it does not contain much, because there is not a lot to say. To me it appears that Tunkeg doesn't like me, he may be trying to pressure me but i feel like he just wants to vote for the sake of it.... Speaking of which i never really explained my vote for cyber cheese. I was going to post this back on page 17 in but decided not to i have spoilered first bit because the initial discussion should not be brought up over and over, but i have left it there anyway: + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + On February 07 2012 04:31 Kurumi wrote: All Your posts are utter garbage. Do I need to motivate You with a vote to help Town? Oh wait, maybe You don't want to help us? Why are You defending Kenpachi? Do you honestly think that Kenpachi's posting shows us that he is likely to be scum? The focus on him is stupid and i think we should abandon that path of thought. If i were to say: "Kurumi has not posted any tf2 related videos yet, i reckon that means that he is scum, voteKurumi" any player would be entitled to tell me that that is bullcrap and that i should not be trying to lynch you for that reason. It is not an issue of defending anybody. It is an issue of bad reasoning. That said i think that Ken is nearly always a reasonable lynch and that he is therefore easy to lynch. If we want to hunt scum pressuring Kenpachi seems like a bad way to start. Conversely, since mafia do not want us to successfully hunt scum such discussion is a good way for them to start Cyber Cheese As a player that has advocated an anti-town move i think that cyber cheese would be a far better lynch candidate. Yes that is basically it. I know its weak. But there isn't much to go on yet. (most of this has been said already) Joker does not need to claim. Joker claiming costs town a vig and has no considerable benefits -Batman cannot communicate directly with us so we cannot know if Batman intends to help town -Batman could still hit town whether or not the Joker is alive, if town is winning it makes sense for batman to kill town. -Batman could simply use DT powers to find Hugo and not kill scum (other than Hugo), which doesn't help town since -Batman would still need to kill Hugo Strange whether the Joker is alive or not On February 06 2012 16:31 Cyber_Cheese wrote: This could be a perfectly pro-town - contribute if you are town post. As a side note, if you don't want a topic discussed, add in a topic that will create discussion in it's place. It could also be an "I know my plan is useless and that following it would benefit scum but please don't just call it bad, think of another (hopefully unproductive) topic and discuss that instead" If he felt that claiming Joker was worth considering and benficial to town, it would make sense to try to discuss it and push it. Instead this post would remove his responsibility for discussing a pro-mafia move. I suppose i didn't post it because i often prepare posts and then don't post them because they aren't good enough. + Show Spoiler + You may wish to pause and think about what this means i was also wondering who would still be pushing players using the logic of "they have best useless therefore they must be scum" So far nearly every player that has been put forward to be lynched has had something in common: They have not behaved in a way that suggests that they have an above average chance of flipping scum. Most people pushing cases have been doing so not because they have substance but because of "some other reason that is probably not pro-town" + Show Spoiler [Examples of poor lynch targets] + Bill Murray Kenpachi rgtheschworz - i know some people had reasons but they were not good slardar jaybrundage layabout -_-Qualis All of that negative crap said We now have a few candidates that might actually be scum: Toad Cyber+Cheese Sheth maybe someone else I have no hatred for you <3 Yes, I had in Student. I think you were a sarcastic, arrogant bastard in that game. But in that game I think you played very good. You came in and won town the game by getting xtfftc lynched. You were also spot on considering me and my posts (pretty bad), but the way you presented it pissed me off. The difference here is that you haven't done anything worthwhile. I am not sure how to interpret your reply to me here, I was both hoping and fearing at the same time that you would come out guns a blazing at me. Hoping because that somehow would show that you didn't fear getting into a attention seeking fight, fearing because it might have caused me to tunnel you forever. This calm collected answer worries me... I am not sure how to procede here. My vote stays on you for now. Convice me otherwise by doing some good posts. | ||
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On February 08 2012 01:59 Bill Murray wrote: when i say half of the game having names of their own, i mean to say half of the game are town power roles if you are not green, and not mafia, you are a power role, right? i guess not all 16 have to be in the game... anyways, im going to officially claim that i am not a townie WTF do you want to achieve by this? If you aren't scum you got a big crosshair on you, and if you aren't third party you will soon enough die at night. I can not see a scenario where this will benefit town. More so we as a town don't get any smarter by this, you aren't confirmed in any way you just confuse us by doing so. | ||
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