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Tyrran
France777 Posts
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Tyrran
France777 Posts
On November 15 2011 17:46 prplhz wrote: I think town shouldn't lie and we should discourage that. Look no further than Team Melee Mini Mafia where the esteemed GMarshal provided a prime example of why a strict lynch-all-liars policy isn't always the greatest as it would have lost town that game. If you are town: do not lie under any circumstances. If you are town and somebody else lies: don't just lynch them because of that alone, even though we have a seemingly unlimited number of lynches at our disposal. You obviously never played poker.If you did, you would know that making a good call can lose you the game, and making mistake can sometimes make you win. This is what happened in TMMM, town should have lost, made a mistake and accidently won. Does that mean that not lunching GMarshal was the good move: NO. If you lie, you better have an irrefutable argument of why mafia would mot have lied in your position or i will vote for you. You want us to lunch scummy lurkers only. But how are we supposed to do that? The point of lurking is that you dont post enough to look scummy. Unless not posting alone makes you scummy ,in which case all lurkers are scummy...I dont see the "painfully obvious reason" why lynching lurkers is pro mafia. Could you please detail them to me ? I suggest we lynch 1+ very scummy players a day as well a 1 additional lurker lynch. This way you would have NO reason at all to be lurking, as it wont prevent you from beeing lynched. Instead show up and prove that you are town by finding those mafia player. | ||
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On November 16 2011 01:59 Sabin010 wrote: I agree about lynching liars, but if we're lynching lurkers because they're not active just doesn't seem to be a good way to go about this. If some one proposes we lynch a lurker, I'm not voting. So you are basically saying : " hey mafia, go lurk and stop posting and you'll be safe from me". I hope you understand how this is suspicious. | ||
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On November 16 2011 03:00 Sabin010 wrote: You know I never thought about it like that. What kind of defense is that ? No, I dont know what is in your head. The only reason you gave for not lynching lurkers is it "I'm sure some of the lurkers are blues". And we are not speaking of lynching them rigth now, but more toward the end of day 1. Not being active is one of the easiest way for mafia player to stay under the radar. we should prevent taht as much as possible. And blues, stay active, dont get lynched. | ||
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On November 16 2011 18:23 prplhz wrote: Yea I like Kenpachi as a lynch too ##Vote Kenpachi So you were a fervent defender of only lynching 'scummy' lurkers. And now you suddenly decide to vote for kenpachi without giving any reason Could you please detail a bit more on why you like kenpachi as a vote, other than the fact that he did not post much ? His townie claim basically does not mean anything Keeping an eyes on lurkers is good, but i would wait to the end on day 1(the last 24 hours) before voting for one of them. It seems to me that blanket voting this early on day one can only lead us divide our attention. Voting for someone whenever he says something strange without trying to pressure him more/confirm him as scum is a great way to lynch a lot of townies and seems to be a good strategy for the mafia side, but not that great for town ( obviously). Bumatlarge espescially has been trying to push the town into lynching as many people as possible. Almost each one of his post include a quote on how we should lynch every single player. Spoiler below shows some example from this filter : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=282366&user=31777 + Show Spoiler + On November 16 2011 10:36 bumatlarge wrote: Why would you FoS when you can just vote them. Don't be pansies. Realized I didn't properly vote. I doubt I will ever take my vote off of kenpachi, it's not that I don't like him, but he is not an asset to the town at the moment, or the forseeable future. Nisani has proceeded to call me dumb or scum, but that doesn't change the fact that his fluffy posts stick out, so it will stay there until he remedies it. ##Vote: Kenpachi ##Vote: Nisani201 And this Is why LAL is bad. What possible reason would cause mafia to post this instead of town. By all means keep up the detective work and checking out all the inconsistencies, but use a little sense. This definetely contradicts itself, and it could very well be an intentional lie, but even that doesn't make him scum. The bad strategy reason tht DCL brought up is actually something to go on. You are pushing your luck by trying to find lies a day into the game. Use that energy to filter a suspicious person instead and get a general vibe, and see if their future posts push you one way or the other. If there wasn't a majority lynch in play, I'd put my vote on everyone, and start taking off people who don't register as scum. That's about how many people I think should be lynched each day. On November 16 2011 02:32 bumatlarge wrote: Next person that mentions LAL is getting a vote placed on them. Seriously enough with the useless shit. We will be lynching however many scummy people we can find on the particular day. We are restricting ourselves when we don't have a clue as to what our boundaries are. Nisani has posted complete fluff and none of it shows any effort in actually heling town. I don't think the new people are brain-dead, so unless the specifically ask about something, don't use them as an excuse to post asinine shit. Oh, hi kibbibit  ##Vote Nisani201 On November 16 2011 12:37 bumatlarge wrote: We got 48 hours from now, right? This time tomorrow we need to look at the votes and see where people stand. I'm honestly surprised how few votes there are, you get as many as you want, a decent townie can take advantage of this. There is no comparing how scummy certain players are to others, you just lynch them or you don't. I guess it's still early, and I'm still fishing for reads here. Oh and surprise, the only post not advocating to lynch the entire town is to defend chaoser, the ONLY person that agreed with the 'vote for everyone' strategy, after he got pressured by WBG. And by defending him, he explains than chaoser should stop doing just what he was advocating the town to do i.e: vote for everyone that seems scummy. On November 16 2011 12:50 bumatlarge wrote: Welcome to WBG logic. But that doesn't make what he says untrue, I think chaoser should focus his attention more and prove singleton cases rather then babble on about everything. Doubt he's scum though. So you spend all your post explaining we should vote for anyone who seems scummy, and you defend chaoser that was doing exactly that by saying "he should focus his attention more". How is that not a huge contradiction ? FoS bumatlarge. | ||
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Tyrran
France777 Posts
Lanaia anti-voted you, if she flips scum, its an auto lynch for you, what do you not understand here ? | ||
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On November 17 2011 06:47 risk.nuke wrote: If kenpachi is green, then lanaia probably isn't scum. If kenpachi is red we got a scumkill even if that doesn't necessarily mean lanaia is his buddy. If lanai is green that means nothing for kenpachis alignment. If lanai is red then kenpachi is scum. I think we learn more from knowing kenpachis alignment. Actually, i think that's a good point. However, if kenpachi flips red, i still think we should auto lynch lanaia. We cant let someone that anti voted a scum go free. Also, if lanaia is blue, she will most likely be a priority kill for the mafia ( who now knows she isnt green), and migth not live to see day 2 anyway. Also kenpachi, you're only defense is : "LOL TOWN IS BAD". I seriously hope that you can do better than that. ##Vote Kenpachi | ||
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Is Lanaia scum ? While there still is a small possibilities that Lanaia used her ability to focus the votes on Kenpachi, I believe she is town and only made a mistake using her anti-vote carelessly. The main reason is that her ability does not seems to fit a scum as it appears to everyone. This was confirmed to be working as intended by Zona. Also she stated beforehand that the would rather lynch sinani over Kenpachi, so her anti-vote on Ken is understandable ( does not mean it was a good move). This leads me to believe her saying that she made a huge mistake. I'd say she is town 75%. Lets not lynch her. Yet. @Lanaia : So you did not want to claim d1, yet you used your anti-vote fully aware that he would show up?? This contradiction is the reason i still think you migth be scum. What was the stance of mafia during this ? Okay, so lets try to think as if we were mafia. A blue 'accidentaly' reveal herself, and does this in a extremely strange way. Kenpachi had not posted much, so I dont think mafia had a read on him being potentially blue yet ( his over reaction to his lynching migth have been a good tell for them). Perfect opportunity to press the town into a misslynch ! Sho who should mafia focus on ? Kenpachi ( no read on him), or Lanaia ( confirmed blue). This is a no brainer for them, pressuring the town into voting Lanaia is obviously the best move here for them. Lets see who voted early for her : * Drazerk : On November 17 2011 06:03 Drazerk wrote: ##vote: Lanaia No blue would save kenpachi First one to go for Lania, just after the post revealing her as a blue. Only has a very bad reason for this. Had already voted for Kenpachi before. Voted too hastely or scum ? * Hyshes : On November 17 2011 06:21 hyshes wrote: only scum would defend lurkers. ##vote: Lanaia With this in mind, the fact that he jumped extremely quickly on the Lanaia bandwagon with the only excuse "only scum would defend a lurker" is extremelly scummy. Not only that, but while this statement suggest that Kenpachi is also scum, he did not vote for him, focusing only on Lanaia. This is very suspect. Note that he later 'said' that it would be weird if Lanaia did this as scum, but did not remove his vote! *Palmar : On November 17 2011 06:24 Palmar wrote: Also, Zona, if they're both scum you should probably re-roll the game, sadly. ##Vote Lanaia ##Vote Kenpachi On November 17 2011 07:51 Palmar wrote: We're lynching Lanaia no matter what. What she did is extremely poor play on day 1. If you're gonna do something like that, why not take it up with town? You must've known the anti-vote would show up anyway, so you're basically outed as soon as yo use it. Basically, that play is so bad for town that I see no reason to not lynch her. As for Kenpachi, well, his sole defense i "town is bad" which is well... fair. But remember, if you are the one who doesn't manage to argue your way out of lynch, both as town and scum, you are actually the worst person of all those bads you're complaining about. Without exception, the player who gets lynched day 1 is the worst player in the game. Okay so Palmar had already quite some influence over town with his Chaoser analysis, immediatly jumped on the Lanaia bandwagon, and later when people where only voting for Kenpachi, he insisted on the fact that Lanaia should by going down multiple time. As explained above, this is very mafia-like, he is trying to make us lynch a blue ! *LemonWalrus/GreYMisT : You guys went for her early, but backed down after explanation that lynching both of them was not a good idea, and that Kenpachi was probably the best lynch. I'm fine with that. *Zephirrd : He was the one that discovered te anti-vote, yet he waited to vote for Lanaia, and gave good reasons for his vote. I'd keep an eye on him, but no clear scum read here. *Hiroruby :Jumbed on the bandwagon without good reasons. Also, very scummy post early in the game. Not very active overall ( made a couple big post early, and fell into unactivity after that. *Sinani206 : Also jumped on the bandwagon without any good reason ( only said 1 word : "Scumbuddies" ). Now the same analysis gives us a good read on risk.nuke too : He was the first and only one to push the town into NOT VOTING for Lanaia. Why would a mafia push the town into not voting for a blue ? Does not make sens to me.I Believe he is town. Conclusion Likely scum : Drazerk, Hyshes, Palmar, Hiroruby, Sinani206 Likely Town : Lanaia, LemonWalrus, GreyMisT, Zephirrd Confirmed Town: risk.Nuke. This is based on this analysis alone, I ignored on purpose most of the post that did not relate to the Kenpachi/lanaia Case. The goal was to find potential scum, we still need to confirm them ! I think we should not lynch anyone for now. If Kenpachi does not flip red, Focus on the likely scum above. If not, we lynched a red :D, and back to the drawing board, to re use risk.nuke wording. What do you guys think ? I would love some feedback on this. | ||
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I still stand by my analysis tho. | ||
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Palmer: same question. | ||
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 . How much time do we have left befdore the end of the day ? ( i'm really bad with the time zone stuff ) | ||
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First of all, Sinani was a big partisan of dividing our attention . Quite amusingly he used the divide and conquer analogy, where as pointed by WBG, you are suppose to divide you enemy. Meaning we town are the enemy? He Bandwagoned against Lanaia, which as i explained before, is something that is very pro-mafia. Just look at his post just before, when we already established that Lanaia should not be lynched. Both his votes are given without any explanation other than "its obvious". He is either scum or an extremely bad town. Even Drazerk looks good in comparison. I dont think town needs him. ##Vote Sinani206 | ||
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France777 Posts
Great defense. I will remind you that I voted kenpachi only becaused i agreed with risk.nuke that this was the rigth way to proceed. And i will redirect you to This post where i explain why mafia would press charges on Lanaia, and thus why those who blindly voted for her are suspects. | ||
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On November 18 2011 01:45 hyshes wrote: bold text: no it does not.. lurkers are good for scum. Scum defending a lurker doesn't mean the lurker is scum. Okay, maybe you did not mean that, and did not push your reasonning far enough. Lanaia was not only defending a lurker, she was defending a lurker while telling us to vote for another lurker (Sinani201, who was lurking at the time, only making a couple post about his divide and conquer stuff). So whe clearly did not want to just save 'a' lurker, she wanted to save 'this' lurker. italic text: I did not say that. I said: This does not imply what you say. It would be weird if lanaia did this as scum knowing we would see the vote.. We can't be sure if she knew. Zona made a post on how the votes shown where working as intended. You just dont give a power to a scum without telling him that the town will be aware of when he used it. That makes no sense at all. That being said, i'm not voting for you rigth now. Your post are far less useless than Sinani's, you'll have plenty of time to convince me that you are town | ||
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On November 18 2011 07:46 Kenpachi wrote: I have reasons to believe Sinani is town. leave Sinani alone! And I suppose you cant give us these reasons ? | ||
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On November 18 2011 17:32 LSB wrote: Any bets on whether or not I survive the night? Actually, mafia killing you would only confirm all your theory, unless they now that and will kill you because Palmar is not mafia, unless they think we know that and kill you so that we think palmar is not mafia ... DAMN YOU WIFOM ! Coming back to more serious matter, I think one of the biggest implication of LSB case against Palmar is that chaoser is NOT mafia ( look at how chaoser and palmar argued and voted against each other). Note that it is also possible that both are town. I also dont trust Palmar. I dont like the fact that I instantly became one of his favored player even tho I fucked as bad a every one during day 1.But i dont have a solid case against him as LSB did. I have a lot of work today, so i probably wont be able to post before tonight. Meanwhile, I would love if LSB could turn his attention to Choaser, and analyse him. WBG, you should do the same regarding Palmar. Lets use the nigth to build the two cases, and we will choose during day 1. | ||
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Also just because this is my first game, and I want to be sure i understood correctly, Palmar saying he got hit basically means that he claimed BulletProof rigth ? | ||
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First of all, LSB got killed after denouncing Palmar as a scum. As I myself stated a few post after that, we CANNOT deduce anything from that. It is a much too typical WIFOM situation. @prplhz : Yes I did vote for the two lynched person, as I said we should lynch 1 lurker and 1 scummy person. If you reread my filter you'll find my list where i state that Sinani206 migth be scum ( first post page 45). It was a bad read from me, and the result of a bad play ( IMHO) from Sinani. On the prplhz vs Drazerk case: I'm getting town vibes from prplhz, especially on his post about vigis. I'm starting to think he migth be one. Also Forumite pushed extremely heavily against Sinani206 during the last minutes of Day 1, despite his only case against him beeing : On November 18 2011 08:09 Forumite wrote: I don´t know what he´s doing, taunting to make Chaoser slip, or just being irritating, but I don´t like the style. For some reason I often connect acting like this to scum. ##Vote: sinani206 But then when prplhz called sinani206 bad for acting like that, he immediatly called him scum : On November 18 2011 11:47 Forumite wrote: prplhz, sorry buddy but right now you look extremely bad. Your attempt to save sinani was posted moments after he got 14 votes on him, you were active and followed the discussion but didn´t contribute. You didn´t vote nor did you try to dissuade people despite stating that you were against the lynch. You just sat and watched as Town killed Town, without getting involved. prplhz is Scum From my point of view, I'd say Forumite stand against Sinani are more suspicious than prplhz. | ||
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On November 20 2011 00:49 Drazerk wrote: He's basically me this game which isn't good for anyone Drazerk, why are you trying so hard to get lynched. It is so obvious that i'm almost convinced that you have a power that activate when you are getting lynched.... | ||
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