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For months, I've been trying to break the 4th level. To go where no map has gone before. I wanted a 4th level of cliffs. Why? Good question. I had no map concept that required it. But I had a driving need to discover how to do this. In my subconscious, I somehow new that this was the key to breaking everything open.
Today, one of my associates, Mr. funcmode, was conversing with me. And in the midst of a completely innocent conversation, a key phrase began to unlock the pathway in my mind.
I joined forces with him, and within a matter of hours unraveled the mystery, broke the map ceiling, and revolutionized mapping forever.
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/R14Ka.jpg) That's funcmode on the left, me on the right.
What we've discovered allows for a 4th, 5th, 6th, and on ramp level. But its more than that. What we've discovered will allow for non-45° degree ramps. This means that 3p symmetry is much easier. Also, non-45° cliffs.
CAUTION: THIS GUIDE IS FOR EXPERTS OF THE MAP EDITOR
You know what, just watch the video. You need a lot of images and weird text to show you how to do this.
I tried to create a highlight, but Jtv is being slow (thanks NASL :p). Check out http://www.justin.tv/tligrok/b/283705673, and skip to 4 minutes in.
50% of the credit goes to funcmode!
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ANNOUNCING A FUCKING ANNOUNCEMENT?
I'VE BEEN WAITING ALL NIGHT.
God damnit, jack. God damnit.
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This would be amazing if its possible. Hopefully not a toll :p
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Here comes the giant rick roll? A live stream of a rick roll playing in the background perhaps!
If you have figured it out it might be nice though, as long as they are TRUE cliffs and not just varying levels of terrain.
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I was looking around the editor and found out about this.
You can use the data editor to make custom footprints that represent cliffs.
(I THINK that thats what it is for.)
I infact made a map with a "super low-ground" but did'nt bother finishing it.
(Mostly because you can get hellions out before a 6-pool hits o.O)
But does this method involve what i mentioned? 
I am book marking this. o.O
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On April 15 2011 10:35 NickMP wrote:
(Mostly because you can get hellions out before a 6-pool hits o.O)
And what exactly does that have to do with cliffs?
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wait what is this? the only way i could see is using the height tool and sorta making your own ramps/losblockers to fake a new cliff height... but then you couldnt see over the cliff? blah interested to see what you guys come up with.
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On April 15 2011 11:05 WniO wrote:
wait what is this? the only way i could see is using the height tool and sorta making your own ramps/losblockers to fake a new cliff height... but then you couldnt see over the cliff? blah interested to see what you guys come up with.
I linked the vid in the OP
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ah thats clever with the towers^
edit: wont this be really really laggy on bigger maps ?
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an announcement within an announcement, whoa...
shit, u indeed did go derper!
Wow didn't even realize that point about 3 player maps (symmetry)
hurrah, and props to you! :D
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Had a look at the video, interesting concept. Would be interesting to see if it is laggy online or not, it probably should be okay if used in moderation.
It's not the sort of thing you would use everywhere on a map, but could come in handy.
Out of interest, do the towers uncover cloaked units? It's been a while since I've played standard sc2
Also what happens if units from multiple teams/alliances are on top of the cliffs, do they both get ownership of the towers or does this cause problems?
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On April 15 2011 12:19 StarkMods wrote:Had a look at the video, interesting concept. Would be interesting to see if it is laggy online or not, it probably should be okay if used in moderation. It's not the sort of thing you would use everywhere on a map, but could come in handy. Out of interest, do the towers uncover cloaked units? It's been a while since I've played standard sc2 Also what happens if units from multiple teams/alliances are on top of the cliffs, do they both get ownership of the towers or does this cause problems?
Re: cloak: No
Re: Allies: allies share vision anyways :p
This causes some minor problems, but there're enough "towers" up there that you can share, right? ^^
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Is there a small published test map using this technique yet? That way we could see if a bunch of watchtower units lag the map in a test environment first
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that's cool can you build on top of those towers though
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Okay, your Inception hype kicks ass. I was ready to start shouting about infinite cliffs and arbitrary ramps.
The actual tech is pretty cool too. The thing is, if you wanted to make angled ramps, you'd have to construct the entire cliff level manually like this. I suppose it's fine if it's not laggy... but it seems pretty messy.
However.
I can imagine a future where we have a community-built library of doodad models for cliff edges to dress up the use of the elevation tool. So you make a cliff level with ramps and whatnot, and at the cliff edges you build nice-looking cliffs by hand. Perhaps clever use of the data editor or the consent of the community for the use of appropriate triggers within melee maps will accomplish the vision aspect more elegantly than spam custom towers. (Though the ingenuity of that solution should not be downplayed, kudos.) Samely, you could simulate the pathing aspect for reapers and colossus.
In this world, any mapper with the dedication could manifest imagination. See Buzz Lightyear for catchphrase.
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On April 15 2011 13:29 iGrok wrote:
[
This causes some minor problems, but there're enough "towers" up there that you can share, right? ^^
Sorry I meant for enemies. So if you have your team 1 army up their already owning the towers and team 2 moves up, I think they will still remain in team 1's ownership and team 2 wont be able to see over the cliff.
This could be the case particularly when you have lots of units and it could result in some strange behaviour.
How does the tower work anyway? You could possibly use another method with hidden units along the cliff that periodically gave nearby units a buff allowing them to see over the cliff. Not sure if it would work but if it did it would allow ally and enemy to see over the cliff.
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On April 15 2011 15:27 EatThePath wrote:
Okay, your Inception hype kicks ass. I was ready to start shouting about infinite cliffs and arbitrary ramps.
Thanks ^^
The actual tech is pretty cool too. The thing is, if you wanted to make angled ramps, you'd have to construct the entire cliff level manually like this. I suppose it's fine if it's not laggy... but it seems pretty messy. Haven't tested this in a real map yet. Thats an issue I was worried about as well.
However.
I can imagine a future where we have a community-built library of doodad models for cliff edges to dress up the use of the elevation tool. So you make a cliff level with ramps and whatnot, and at the cliff edges you build nice-looking cliffs by hand. Perhaps clever use of the data editor or the consent of the community for the use of appropriate triggers within melee maps will accomplish the vision aspect more elegantly than spam custom towers. (Though the ingenuity of that solution should not be downplayed, kudos.) Samely, you could simulate the pathing aspect for reapers and colossus.
This was the only way I could think of without using triggers. You can already build nicer looking cliffs buy adding in Rock doodads, I just didn't do that in the map in the video ^^
In this world, any mapper with the dedication could manifest imagination. See Buzz Lightyear for catchphrase.
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If anyone is wondering the reason you *can't* do more than 4 (real) cliff levels, or have non-45 ramps;
The way the editor works is there is a specific cliff model for every single possible level-level interaction. They're named something like Cliff AAAA - Cliff ADDD, rather than having reusable cliff models that work for every interaction. It has the benefit of looking more realistic, and the gigantic drawback of meaning they need roughly 200 different cliff models for every cliff set. To make 5 levels they'd need about 1000, so only 4 levels were included. The same reasoning goes for the ramps.
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Can you remove all the white dots on the minimap?
Ingame, are you able to click on these invisible Xel'Naga towers?
Will you have vision when you have only buildings next to a custom cliff?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v607/sheneedstherapy/WE-NEED-TO-GO-DEEPER.jpg)
