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On October 12 2010 10:13 LSB wrote:How about this. We kill the Vampire Brute. Then we do the plan. Kapish? The plan for reference. Back in Mafia XXX. Note, in Mafia XXX there was no watcher, but it still worked due to the combination of trackers, and the fact that Xelin visited people. + Show Spoiler +On August 09 2010 03:26 LSB wrote:As for a random number, I got 10, XeliN. Here are the instructions for the plan + Show Spoiler +On August 07 2010 23:17 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2010 12:40 Divinek wrote:On August 07 2010 12:35 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
Current Version of LSB Plan
We pick a THIS GUY.
All watchers watch him. All detectives check him. All medics prot him. All trackers track him.
Bus drivers and vigis stay away. Hatters probably stay away, too.
If a blue's action went through (no waxing) they will expect a PM from a watcher.
If no PMs are sent, there is no watcher or watcher was waxed.
If a blue gets one PM, then that is the real watcher unless the unlikely event of the watcher being waxed (mafia can possibly claim waxed watcher).
If a green gets a PM they can come forward - they are nosy neighbor or mafia is faking. If no greens come forward we are probably doing good.
If a blue that didn't act on THIS GUY gets a PM, we have a surefire mafia.
If no one steps forward seeing shenanigans for say, 24 hours. We can have watcher step forward - no one else comes forward we can protect them with bus. If more than one step forward, a blue can use pm evidence to out them if they are fake, maybe a DT can use a mouth they've confirmed (look for mafia to use an innocent as a mouth here, or maybe a mafia as a mouth like rastaban/sr last game). but how do we set up a real circle when the role blocker gets in there Okay, I will make an extreamly extended version of my plan PROBLEMS: The watcher has to be smart. If the watcher is dumb/inactive, the plan fails Day 1 We agree to this plan :D Night oneShow nested quote +On August 07 2010 12:35 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
Current Version of LSB Plan
We pick a THIS GUY.
All watchers watch him. All detectives check him. All medics prot him. All trackers track him.
Bus drivers and vigis stay away. Hatters probably stay away, too.
Day 2: Show nested quote +On August 07 2010 12:35 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
If a blue's action went through (no waxing) they will expect a PM from a watcher.
If no PMs are sent, there is no watcher or watcher was waxed.
If a blue gets one PM, then that is the real watcher unless the unlikely event of the watcher being waxed (mafia can possibly claim waxed watcher).
If a green gets a PM they can come forward - they are nosy neighbor or mafia is faking. If no greens come forward we are probably doing good.
If a blue that didn't act on THIS GUY gets a PM, we have a surefire mafia.
If no one steps forward seeing shenanigans for say, 24 hours. We can have watcher step forward - no one else comes forward we can protect them with bus. If more than one step forward, a blue can use pm evidence to out them if they are fake, maybe a DT can use a mouth they've confirmed (look for mafia to use an innocent as a mouth here, or maybe a mafia as a mouth like rastaban/sr last game). So basically, Day2 is there to get the watcher confirmed. The watcher then STEPS FORWARD, we'll have to sort though everything. Anyone messing with the plan, should be spotted and killed. Night 2Bus Driver protects Watcher. If there is only one DT claim, Watcher orders Medics to protect DT. ( iffy, but I don't think there is only going to be one DT claim) The Watcher will now control detective/trackers action. Watcher randomly assigns detectives to check up on people. Watcher has a list of what they should be, and the detective needs to match the list. Watcher does the same thing with trackers A few notes. *If a framer frames someone, they will show as regular red, not red special. So the Watcher should send the DT to people who claimed a blue role that can visit people We work from here, but the circle could gradually confirm each other. Takes a bunch of logic though Here's a breakdown by individual roles Conan the Not-So-Barbaric (Detective): Role check XeliN Active Stalker (Tracker): Stalk XeliN Lazy Stalker (Watcher): Watch XeliN Boy Scout (Medic): Protect XeliN Wannabe Batman (Vigilante): Do not target Xelin Mad Nutter (Mad Hatter): Do not target Xelin Bus Driver (Bus Driver): Do not target Xelin Disillusioned Teachers' Brigade (Mafia): PM Me and I'll give you super secrete instructions ;P!
The guide to being a good Town player (I think it's linked in post #4) says that this plan was bad, and that the Mafia would have won that if they weren't dumb. The Brute makes this even more terrifying.
We still have like another day until we actually have to lynch, I think we ought to keep accusing people and analyzing until then, and not make any weird-ass plans that put our blues in danger. Zombies in this may as well be bold and accuse and whatnot, because if the reds decide to kill them, at least it's not a blue who's getting killed.
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On October 12 2010 16:01 jodogohoo wrote:
neos, yogy have voted for a lynch on masq
kenpachi, grandmoose have voted for a lynch on veldril
very suspicious in my opinion. i feel like they are newbie reds told to keep low by some more experienced reds but also told to vote for specific people early on as to not have to vote near the end, which is also suspicious. and they also voted for the people who may be on the opposing red fraction... or something @_@ not entirely sure if my deductions are clear, but the idea is there, hopefully someone will be able to take what i said and state it in a more concise statement
I actually really like this idea. We probably wouldn't want to actually follow through on lynching them unless they react in a way that shows them to be reds, because we have some people who are more likely to be scum, but we could potentially get some useful information from even just a temporary vote switch, at least if you're right and they are newbie reds.
I would be down for this. I'm in favor of voting Kenpachi, because he looks to be the most active of them, so I think he's the most likely to see it and react quickly, but if someone has a better method for deciding, I'd be willing to change.
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On October 13 2010 08:27 Lexpar wrote:
I'm not sure I understand your guys argument. Everyone should bandwagon with you so that once he's lynched and revealed to be a baddie, we'll know with certainty that everyone who didn't vote to lynch him was on his team? This seems like an incredibly polarized point of view. Please explain yourselves pan/bum.
I think Pandain is actually pushing for Heavenonearth not Masq
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I think that DrH probably contacted the players who looked like smurfs, and just made sure that their main accounts weren't also here. I doubt that multiple accounts for 1 player would be allowed
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I don't understand why it's so big a deal, as long as each player only has 1 account in the game. It's not entirely fair to veteran players that they have a giant posting history looming behind them, while us random dudes don't have any reputation. As long as it's 1 account per player, this seems fine.
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EBWOP: sorry, DrH, for posting that after you said the discussion ended. I was already typing it when you posted that, I guess, so I didn't see it.
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On October 13 2010 09:46 SiNiquity wrote:
-----------------------------------------
Original Message From Pandain:
GIVE ME THOUGHTS NOW YUM YUM
YUM YUM MONSTA DEMANDS BRAIN FOOD
Yum Yum ==> Food
Food ==> Sausage
Sausage ==> "Franks"
Frankenstein
Frankenstein also has no thoughts, meaning he would require others to feed him thoughts. He also has no tact, which in text would be represented with proper punctuation and capitalization and would demand such items without properly asking.
k 1 down 60 to go
In what context did he even send this? It just seems bizzare to me.
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On October 13 2010 09:47 youngminii wrote:
You didn't ask me anything/speak to me personally. You replied to my *public* argument and argued your case *privately*. There's a reason some games don't allow PMs. Everyone's arguments should be plain and open in the public eye so that they can be analysed and dissected. If you have something to ask someone or don't want the rest of town/scum to see what you are writing to someone, then PM all you want. But there's no reason for you to hide your arguments except that you don't want people to analyse them later on in the game.
Obvious scumlike behaviour, not pointing fingers yet.
Posted without including this. If you really want what he said to be posted so bad, why not just post the PMs? I guess it's less reliable, because they could be forged, but I think that imitating Pandain's writing style would be kind of hard.
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Oh, hahaha, I didn't even realize that was a PM, thought it was just a quote from earlier. That'll teach me to look closer at things, I guess.
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On October 13 2010 10:15 MetalFace wrote:Show nested quote +NOTICEA question about the MetalFace guy: check out his profile and post history. His account was made on September 27th. He has 3 total posts. His first post was in the mafia forum request thread. His only post in this thread was a cover post, asking how the voting is done. His last post is a vote against Veldril. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=MetalFaceIt's highly unlikely this guy is actually someone new who just found teamliquid. Who the hell joins teamliquid and makes his first post to be in the mafia game? Who the hell actually knows how to put pictures and edit their signature etc, but only have three posts? This guy is 100% a smurf of another player here. So lame - DrH, shouldn't you be checking this kind of shit before the game starts? Heyo. Just to clear this up for you, I am in fact not a smurf. After starting to play SC2 a friend of mine suggested I check out TL because, as I'm sure you all know, this is the place to be for SC2 strats. I made an account so I could sign up for the NA TL Open, but unfortunately, couldn't make it. As for my low post count, I was never really one for posting a ton because A) I'm not all that good at SC2, and B) I'm firmly believe bad people posting just makes for bad forums. Realistically, why would I make a smurf account using a SC2 name that is legit? And so I had been happy in my lurking until I saw the Haunted Mafia signup on the left hand bar. I had played a simplified version of Mafia IRL but nothing like this before. Honestly, I have no way of proving this to you, but quite frankly, whether or not you believe me doesn't really matter. As for voting, it's the first night and as much as you guys want to get really deep into the clues, someone has to die. Once we lynch someone, we'll be a lot closer to finding out who is mafia/vampire. There's like 5-6 people right now that we could lynch and and one of them would give us a ton of information as to who's who, but for right now we're just working off of a handful of clue and a mountain of speculation.
Character name and identifier, please? If there's a "Metalface" on Bnet, it does a gigantic amount for good for clearing your name as a smurf, I feel. Nobody would buy a new copy of SC2 or permanently name their character just to hide their name for 1 game of Mafia.
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I mean to say "If you are 'Metalface' on Bnet" not "If there's a 'Metalface' on Bnet"
Just to clarify
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On October 13 2010 12:05 Lexpar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 10:45 Kpyolysis32 wrote:
Unvote
Vote Masq
Might as well not waste a vote. ^From voting thread^ Dude. Whatch you smoking? Voting for someone other than the winner isn't wasting a vote. Whats the point of voting if each vote is decided by who has the mots votes? Bill might as well just vote first and then everyone can follow him because they "don't want to waste a vote". I don't give a shit which one of these two fries, but common dude. At least have a semblance of a spine.
Did you see who I unvoted? I had previously voted for HeavOnEarth, who had absolutely no chance of being lynched. I support lynching Masq over Veldril slightly, because both of them seem equally likely to be red, but Veldril seems more likely to me to get killed by whatever scum faction he doesn't belong to tonight (assuming that he is red). Spending my vote to have a chance at influencing something I care about a little is better than spending my vote to change nothing.
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On October 13 2010 12:33 Nemesis wrote:
Too much finger pointing going on even though it is the first day phase and there is very little information available at this point of the game.
Finger pointing is good. When we point fingers, we investigate. And when we investigate, we gain knowledge. The only people who shouldn't finger point (if they can back of their accusation) are blues who need to lie low and scum who don't want to spread information, as best as I can tell. Why else wouldn't we?
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On October 13 2010 12:43 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 12:36 Kpyolysis32 wrote:On October 13 2010 12:33 Nemesis wrote:
Too much finger pointing going on even though it is the first day phase and there is very little information available at this point of the game. Finger pointing is good. When we point fingers, we investigate. And when we investigate, we gain knowledge. The only people who shouldn't finger point (if they can back of their accusation) are blues who need to lie low and scum who don't want to spread information, as best as I can tell. Why else wouldn't we? But the scum can easily read who the blues are. Everyone should finger point then!
That would be true if everyone actually followed this, but blues as it is can just pretend to be idle townies if they choose. I'm certainly fine with everybody finger pointing, though!
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On October 13 2010 12:49 jaminz wrote:
BTW the "detective" Bill Murray thinks he has is me. Is it true? O_o
What does this even.
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On October 13 2010 12:56 ShmotZ wrote:Consider everything! This might be a trap trying to get us change votes last minute  Its all so confusing, and its what they want. We need to COORDINATE!!! I think after this night, well get a better grip on what to do depending on where we went with the first lynch. Also since we most likely will get about 10 mod kills which i hope will reveal who they are, we can kinda get a better idea about the REAL numbers of players and the odds that some people might be mafia and vamps.
That would be excellent, but I think that he said modkills just get the players replaced with backups. So no free info for us.
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Hahaha, ballin'
We're still allowed to talk in this thread even though it's night, right?
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+ Show Spoiler +On October 14 2010 08:39 bumatlarge wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2010 07:02 BrownBear wrote:
People who (relatively) last-minute bandwagoned onto Masq (started with about 5 hours to go):
Hittegods
bumatlarge
Pandain
kitaman27
SINiquity
Kpyolysis32
Veldril
AirbladeOrange
Shmotz
Now, I can kindaunderstand Veldril (dude was second in line, that's just defensive voting), but the rest of that list could be vamps trying to bus. Or mafia trying to ensure Masq died.
Although mafia didn't know he was vamp any more than we did until the flip... perhaps mafia really wanted Veldril alive for some reason?
Will look into this more.
I'm happy someone is doing what I suggested yesterday, regardless of whether or not I influenced them. Although I REALLY misinterpreted Dr.H's conditions for town (8 of each instead of 8 in general), this list is still as important as it was before, we just have to be as consistent. It would be best to take out a mafia next, but whoever is the scummiest should be lynched. We should consider double lynch, but it would be dangerous considering both sides just need to kill each other. Veldril should die anyway even if he is most likely another vampire, it's better then hitting townies. and a +2 win margin for mafia isnt all that much so early if we can read them well. As for my own defense, I wont change anything I've said. Use your own judgement. + Show Spoiler +On October 13 2010 08:03 bumatlarge wrote:
RE-READ THREAD: MASQ SHOULD BE LYNCHED
I must have misread somewhere on the veldril and masq debate, but going back, masq is the obvious lynch here.
1. He has clues pointing to him that seem a little obvious, but they are clear clues regarding something.
2. Veldril defended him, so we may have a lead if masq pops scum.
3. The vote lists will help us massively on fishing out opposing faction
The first two points have been discussed to death, so make your own observations there. I underestimated what Bill said regarding the sides. I failed to realize that the objective of either side is to kill the other team, regardless of towns numbers. It's almost as if town and mafia roles are reversed, since town just need to outnumber the remaining 8 scum. That means that either side cant win until much later if they lose one member... which is assumed they will if the other faction is smart.
If the two candidates for lynch (masq/veldril) contain at least one scum, we can be certain that right now on the lists contain a good number of scum from the opposite faction, depending on what they are. We just need mafia/vamps to kill each other decisively. If they don't they risk the other faction rising ahead. Therefore both teams need to rely on end game tactics.
Heh, it's almost as if we don't need to do anything if scum are good players. We just need to follow clues and go with the flow.
Masq is my vote, and if hes scum, then we can sift through the current list of masq people for his opposite faction. Below are the votes just before I made my point. They should be important so neither side pulls ahead. It would be better to chance a stab at a team that has twice the members left of the other team to prevent a rout. + Show Spoiler +On October 13 2010 08:09 bumatlarge wrote:For Masq, + Show Spoiler +18 - Glasse, CubEdIn, Nemesis, aztrorisk, Yogy, Neos, spydr, zerroth, Aeres, LSB, pandain, Hyperbola, seRapH, Flicky, Therick, TheMunkey, Bill Murray, coagulation For Veldril + Show Spoiler +17 - Lucktar, jodogohoo, YummyBlaBla, kenpachi, annul, jcarlsoniv, youngminii, southrawrea, Masq, grandmoose, bumatlarge, HeavOnEarth, oddo123, thegilaboy, kingjames01, Lexpar, MetalFace These list are important. If I die, let these guide you once you learn the alignment of the two. On October 13 2010 09:27 bumatlarge wrote:I thought my Veldril -> Masq post was important Veldril defended masq, and masq didn't associate with him. Veldril could be scum protecting himself or legitimate towny with opinions, or Masq is innocent thats all well, or hes scum and it's a much greater chance that veldril is on his team. But unless a glaringly obvious lynch comes forward, but between veldril and masq, could dissect which sides we are dealing with. But at a certain point, it does become advantageous for a scum team with >4 players to start town killing... Please go over the win conditions people and realize what we are supposed to be doing here. They are far from ordinary win conditions. On October 13 2010 09:31 bumatlarge wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 13 2010 09:11 Lexpar wrote:Pandain and bumatlarge you've yet to defend your arguments. Pandain: Show nested quote +
Everyone vote heaven on earth. I think he's really the only good "lynch" today. Either that or Masq, because from there we find out alot on Veldril anyway. But I would prefer Heaven on Earth over masq because we can find out whether the jack o lantern i sactually a clue or not.
Show nested quote +I want everyone who voted Veldril to change their vote ASAP unless they pm me a reason, or state so in thread. I'd prefer Masq do to. We got this. However, stay on until the end would be preffered in the unlikely case we don't have enough time bumatlarge: Show nested quote +3. The vote lists will help us massively on fishing out opposing faction
The first two points have been discussed to death, so make your own observations there. I underestimated what Bill said regarding the sides. I failed to realize that the objective of either side is to kill the other team, regardless of towns numbers. It's almost as if town and mafia roles are reversed, since town just need to outnumber the remaining 8 scum. That means that either side cant win until much later if they lose one member... which is assumed they will if the other faction is smart.
If the two candidates for lynch (masq/veldril) contain at least one scum, we can be certain that right now on the lists contain a good number of scum from the opposite faction, depending on what they are. We just need mafia/vamps to kill each other decisively. If they don't they risk the other faction rising ahead. Therefore both teams need to rely on end game tactics.
Heh, it's almost as if we don't need to do anything if scum are good players. We just need to follow clues and go with the flow.
Masq is my vote, and if hes scum, then we can sift through the current list of masq people for his opposite faction. Me: Show nested quote +I'm not sure I understand your guys argument. Everyone should bandwagon with you so that once he's lynched and revealed to be a baddie, we'll know with certainty that everyone who didn't vote to lynch him was on his team? This seems like an incredibly polarized point of view. Please explain yourselves pan/bum. Show nested quote +I still don't understand why hes suggesting that doing what he says, because everyone who dosen't is obviously baddie, is a foolproof idea. I'm willing to bet a big chunk of people voting for masq/vel did so out of not wanting to "waste" their vote on someone else, and going with whoever had the highest votes at the time. What are the odds these guys are gonna log on now and change their vote in the last 4 hours? Because they're lazy or maybe work nights, we condemn them to being on a baddie team? I've posted a list of pre-switch votes. Since no one seems to care, I guess they still hold some water. No one is band-wagoning. Just PLEASE pay attention to votes, they are tell tale signs of faction mongering unless people aimlessly throw votes on nobodies. I suggest people investigate those individuals.
Double lynch? Not a thing I'm familiar with; how does it work?
And my name was on that list of late vote-switchers, so I should probably defend myself: I wanted to vote for someone who hadn't posted much to try and get hem to react and reveal information (assuming that others would vote for them as well or that I could convince some, which I was working on unsuccessfully in PMland). That's why I voted for Kenpachi, and then, after being informed that I was an idiot for saying that in my post about him, HeavOnEarth, because Pandain was already pushing for him, I figured it was a good person to try and get a reaction from. Then seeing that absolutely nobody else I talked to agreed with this chain of thought, I voted Masq so that my vote wouldn't be wasted.
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On October 14 2010 10:02 KhrisKruel wrote:Hey guys sorry I missed out on day 1. I didn't have access to the thread. I'm quite amazed we got a scum on day 1, but then again I'm not used to clue dynamics. I'm catching up now and I'm on page 13. I thought I'd share this nice gem with you guys that I noticed. Show nested quote +On October 11 2010 15:48 Bill Murray wrote:On October 11 2010 15:33 Veldril wrote:
Secondly, I believe that there's old-school player here so we might be able to check their previous post first before making an accusation. Analyzing the old posts in previous games might become useful if you have time to do it. LOL. YOU JUST ADMITTED YOU'D BUDDY WHEN MAFIA, AND YOU'VE BEEN DOING IT WITH MASQ. I DON'T MEAN TO BE FUNNY WITH HALLOWEEN-REFERENCES, BUT THAT WAS REALLY THE NAIL IN YOUR COFFIN MR VAMPIRE LOL Let me clarify: Let me clarify more: Let me clarify 3 more times: I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm looking for vampires AND mafia...anyone have thoughts on this?
I looked at this too, but I don't feel like it's really solid enough to base anything on. He refers to mafia singularly a couple of times, and mafia/vampire a couple of times. More suspicious, in my opinion, is his insistence at somewhat irrelevant times that he's green...
+ Show Spoiler +On October 12 2010 14:45 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 14:44 orgolove wrote:I guess I should make it clear in the spreadsheet too, but the "vote 1, vote 2, vote 3" etc are the final votes after each night. notice how none of the future columns are filled in? On October 12 2010 14:38 orgolove wrote:
By the way, the vote list in the spreadsheet is a constantly updated list of the *current votes* not any vote changes. Special cases like jodogohoo, who switched his vote 6 times, will be noted in the "notable support" section.
ok, sorry. i really am a zombie though
+ Show Spoiler +On October 12 2010 04:36 Bill Murray wrote:
sorry, orgolove, but you have me flustered
i am town so you need to look elsewhere
Followed by his (at least as far as I can tell) unprompted roleclaim as JoL. What would even cause someone to do this, unless they were just trying to find the best way to convince people to roleclaim to them (which he was insisting that people needed to do), and willing to deceive anyone to do so.
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On October 14 2010 10:21 KhrisKruel wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 00:43 Veldril wrote:
If someone is a mafia/vampire then that person would defend blame on his team mate.
If a person defend other person then those people are teammate.
Veldril defend Masq
Therefore,Veldril and Masq are team mate.
Therefore, Veldril and Masq are vampire.
If your logic is like above then I think you have made both formal fallacy and informal fallacy. With an experienced player like you, it is unlikely that you would make such fallacies, unless you ignore them to make an accusation on me with some agendas. Of course, I could be wrong but in that case, could you please clarify why do you think I team up with Masq please? A post from Veldril responding to Bill Murray...he made the same mistake as BM and said vampire, instead of mafia/vampire. But I don't think anyone really doubts that Veldril is a vampire at this point after his connections with Masq and Masq's flipping of vampire.
Also, people seem to have missed this, but Veldril literally admitted to being vampire straight up.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=159453¤tpage=64#1272
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EPT
