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On February 10 2010 06:09 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2010 05:53 sidesprang wrote:On February 10 2010 05:36 citi.zen wrote:3. As soon as one mafia family falls down to 2 or fewer members, they've essentially lost the game- they cannot win, because either they will be wiped out (the other mafia family wins), or they will reduce the other mafia family to 1-2 members in which case the Town wins. What incentive is there for this mafia family to keep playing, considering they cannot win? Will they have some kind of secondary objective, like a consolation prize? e.g. maybe a secondary objective of theirs would be to not be wiped out, in which case once they fall down to 2 members, they have to push for a Town win rather than let the other mafia family win. This is a very good question. maybe they retire as mafia and join the townies ?  So in the end the victory objective for the mafia changes to... killing the entire town? I don't see it... + Show Spoiler +I guess we could have 2, or even 3 families who are unaware of each other, but they should still aim to kill the town, no?
The leftover mafia become similar to town-aligned vigis. Their presence can and will still confuse the Town into a loss if DT rolechecks them and they've been acting stupid. It then becomes the town's responsibility to... PROTECT the remaining smaller mafia faction to prevent a TOWN loss.
LOL.
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On February 10 2010 06:52 citi.zen wrote:
So I guess the mafia win condition is "make other mafia lose"?
Pretty much...
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In response to your response, Ver...
If the win condition for the Town is to have 2 or less mafia left in each family, and we're left in a 3-1 mafia vs X townies situation (where X is obviously >3), then there is no reasonable way for mafia 2 to accomplish their win condition, only that of the Town's... unless I'm critically misreading something.
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On February 11 2010 17:03 Mystlord wrote:
Woo updated my profile big time with just stuff I found interesting. A bit of rambling.
Now since my profile is so diverse, EVERY clue can point to me ha ha ha! Wait a second...
don't worry; we have the same Lolita quote, so we share at least that >_>
thinking I should make my references to theologians much more clearly though...
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On February 12 2010 08:25 Fulgrim wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2010 07:55 tree.hugger wrote:
I think it'll be nice to have a game where half the people and nearly all the blues aren't inactive... You sound like you speak from experience tree.hugger
yeah must have been real rough having to deal with all those inactives...
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On February 12 2010 11:46 Ace wrote:
I'd like to sign up AGAIN! Having 2 of me is the only way to balance the inevitable rapefest coming along.
one in each mafia family, eh?
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voting thread is up already!?
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time to make a new set of dossiers...
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On February 14 2010 10:50 Mystlord wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 10:43 meeple wrote:On February 14 2010 10:37 MasterDana wrote:
Also, did Wine Barrels or Football fields stand-out to anyone? It could've easily said "Barrel" or "100-yards", but it got descriptive. Just something I noticed. I thought about it... but generally its better to profile the killers right now. Last game we made a huge deal about some heavily caffeinated tea at the beginning that ended up being nothing. Often it seems that the host is overly descriptive just to make our lives harder. Ah ha ha I remember that. I think clues would mostly be concentrated in areas that actually describe somehow the killers right? I didn't take notice if that was the case at the end of the last mafia game, but I believe that was how it turned out.
Generally I think is the case, but each host's clue style is a little different as well, especially for the more vague Day 1 clues.
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@Ver, what about Game 15 where BC just posted random rhyming gibberish?
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On February 14 2010 11:20 Caller wrote:
Ver, I'm not entirely sure lynching BC is a very good idea. While I agree with you on the election post, consider the thing about BC is that he's very good at identifying people's roles and the like. We ideally should keep him alive as long as possible. Even if he is scum, you'd consider that he would likely focus on the other mafia, and this gives us two things:
a) dead mafia on the other family
b) a free kill for a vig or lynch on his family.
More importantly, we can trace some of his support if he is indeed scum, which may give us more information. It all depends on what he can do for us.
Of course, if he's town affiliated, he can only benefit us.
I submit that we lynch random people for the first lynch like we usually do. You never know, we may get lucky. Lynching strong players right now could really hurt the town, especially without any information. Of course, it may also cripple mafia as well, but I'm not sure we should take such a risk right now.
I agree with this - out of all the possible mafia candidates to lynch, we should reserve the best ones for later. The town HAS to play both families against the other without playing too much into either one's plans. Even if BC was mafia, then the other mafia would KNOW to keep their sights on him for his supposed prowess at identifying people... but if the TOWN killed him right away, then it'd just be doing their dirty work for them.
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On February 14 2010 12:01 L wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 11:45 Ace wrote:
Ok, the KingPin has arrived. Time to stop this nonsense and get this game started.
First of all, I'm going to be brutally honest here. Some of you playing are newbies. That isn't to say you're bad, but more so that you haven't had the experience of playing a true cut throat game of Mafia. The last 2 games were honestly so bland - aka too much talking about clues, that it wasn't really that much high level strategy going on.
Like Ver said, talking too much about clues early is USELESS. Don't try to convince anyone that someone is Mafia based on clues for the first few days. It's nice to mention it, but do not make it a central point of focus. MTF and Camlito are the best 2 clue analyzers along with Plexa that we ever had. That was in Mafia 2 and it took a ton of planning + input from various people to even come to some of those conclusions. Chances are you won't be able to do much with clues this game unless you've got some additional proof. What I mean by this is catch someone on behavior analysis + clues + shoddy voting or motives. Saying "this clue points to Ace" is just stupid.
Knowing this, I'm not surprised LL and Zato -1 are already accusing me. Look people, especially for you new players - I'm one of the biggest targets in any Mafia game. Every time. I'm super valuable. I catch people in lies all the time and I always save townies from the obvious bandwagon deaths. L and Zato may not have blatantly accused me but they just planted a seed of suspicion on me of all people, based on some wild clues. Be very wary of light weight accusations like this.
I'm running for Mayor of course. But in the event I don't win, my vote is possibly going to Ver. The only reason I might not vote for him is because he has elected to kill BC which is just as bad as L/Zato wanting me dead. Our most valuable players should be saved unless it's blatantly obvious they are Mafia. There are 3 teams this game, don't even bother trying to murder all of our good players so soon.
Summarized version: I'm angry that in game where 2 out of 5 people are mafia, that someone called me out on blatant clue connections. I could understand if we had a 20 man game with like, 4 mafia, that a host would understandably shy away from good day 1 clues, but that's really not the case here. Compare this game's Day 1 post with clues to pretty much any of the others; This one is far larger, has more thematic elements and establishes 3-4 clear personae. Actually, I kinda want to repeat that; Lets look at this current game format. The town consists of 31 members. The mafia families combined amount to 20 members. Mafia, given that they attack a group that is 41 members large, and not 51 members large, have a 1/4 chance of hitting a mafia from another house, and a 3/4 chance of hitting a townie. With a total of 7 kp per day, 1 from the town, 3 from each family, we have 1*60%+6*75% effective average townie deaths per day before clues and blue roles. That's 5 deaths a day, giving us a clock of around 6-8 days to kill... 20 mafia? Well, that's not entirely true; we should have 2 mafia killed by that point by fire between the groups, so 18. Say we have 8 days until some form of LyLo situtation, giving us 8 lynches; Even if we succeed every lynch, we're going to have ten mafia still alive. That's impossible. Many of you know its impossible. So what handicaps is town likely to get? Well for one, they have stronger DTs, they probably have substantial kp in vigs and hatters, but they won't amount to the 12 kp hole we have. More to the point; Clues aren't here just for the town; They're for opposing mafia teams as well. If we aren't analysing and picking a few good targets a day, one of the teams will be; ideally we want to be correct about a few of the early ones and have members of the mafia agree so that they shred each other and lower their kp asap. So why exactly are you thinking that day 1 clues wouldn't be a part of the game?
thanks for stealing my thoughts L =(
clues are worth more in this game than in previous games, and so we should pay a little more attention to Day 1 clues than in standard games
(of course, the problem is deciphering the clues)
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On February 14 2010 12:06 Ace wrote:
Ok L, try using that the "40% of people are Mafia argument". It doesn't help. Blindly pointing fingers in the chance you may nab someone is just as bad if it were a game where 20% of the people are Mafia. Stop it. You're wrong.
no, but it forces you to defend yourself and add more to the discussion so we can further analyze your posting
let the accusations begin
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On February 14 2010 12:19 meeple wrote:
so x = mafia 1
y = mafia 2
z = town
z is trying to kill x + y
X is trying to kill y + z
y is trying to kill x + z
Isn't it something more like this?
no, because the victory conditions for X/Y only rely on the other one being completely dead
so Z kill X + Y
X kill Y
Y kill X
as mentioned above
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L, it's 16 mafia, not 18. I agree with your post; I think it's important to think about what kinds of posting/voting dynamics change as a result from a simple two-faction game to a three faction game. The fact alone that having a mafia mayor won't be as terrible as the same situation in a two-faction game should be enough for people to step back and reconsider things.
I'd post with more substance and clarity, but I'm wrecked from prepping for this Chinese New Years' party today.
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On February 14 2010 22:55 Ace wrote:
"let them kill each other off now" - and how do we do that? It's not like we KNOW who they are.
I disagree with so much of you're post. You're first paragraph is blatantly wrong because clues aren't always right. The very fact that you don't even know what automatically constitutes a clue makes you wrong on that too.
We do clue analysis regardless of whether or not it's right, and people step up to defend/criticize... then we analyze their posts in response. The fact that there's such a huge argument between you and L is already very telling.
I suppose it would derail the thread if we picked someone wrong, so my suggestion is thus: can we find any further clues that relate to the electoral candidates?
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I'm starting to agree with BC here... Bill is either bad at posting, or mafia. Or both, because the situation we have right now would happen anyway if he was the latter and did the former. It's simply DUMB for the mafia to put GF as mayor, because it wastes the GF's inherent power.
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Also, why is BM pointing out who could/couldn't be GF right now, when it's a fact that GF is decided before the END of Day 1?
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On February 15 2010 01:13 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 01:12 d3_crescentia wrote:
Also, why is BM pointing out who could/couldn't be GF right now, when it's a fact that GF is decided before the END of Day 1? Someone has seen the light
problem: would the mafia be THIS uncoordinated to let BM say shit like this?
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So how do we go about getting bodyguards checked?
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EPT
