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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
"Okay so I want to include myself on my team. I should include Dirkzor, since he looks town. Who should be my third teammate? Blazinghand? VE? Kita? No, you know what, Navillus sounds far more reasonable than those three, let's bring him he'll definitely not be a spy, yeah this is a good idea, and I, Palmar, a good player, will do this" oh no wait that's unbelivably bad | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
On February 21 2012 18:59 Blazinghand wrote: I think in your position I'd want to bring the two most town players with me, and Navillus is not one of the two most town players. you setting up a fall guy for when your team fails? Or are you just dumb Nah, I said, I'll take the blame if the team fails. It'd be strictly dumb play to include me again if this team fails. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
On February 21 2012 19:03 Blazinghand wrote: Like I'm just trying to imagine Palmar's reasoning here "Okay so I want to include myself on my team. I should include Dirkzor, since he looks town. Who should be my third teammate? Blazinghand? VE? Kita? No, you know what, Navillus sounds far more reasonable than those three, let's bring him he'll definitely not be a spy, yeah this is a good idea, and I, Palmar, a good player, will do this" oh no wait that's unbelivably bad Dude, no need to overreact, you haven't lost the game. yet. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
On February 21 2012 19:04 Palmar wrote: Nah, I said, I'll take the blame if the team fails. It'd be strictly dumb play to include me again if this team fails. I've got a better plan, let's nayvote this guy's team down into the nether realms and pick a team with three town players. I don't like you Palmar. It doesn't matter if you never get included in another team--- there are three scum and only three missions need to be sabotaged. For day 2 we'll need to pick 2 more players out of the remaining 6 (of which 2 are scum) and pick 0 scum to get a victory. The "let's let palmar sabotage and just not use him any more" plan is unsustainable, and the kind of gambit scum would suggest. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
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Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
I don't understand the rage for Navillus. Yes he failed hard but that don't make him scum. Just disinterested (or busy). Also if he is as disinterested as his action suggest he might not even sabotage even if he is scum  | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
His solution of "taking the blame if the team fails" is preposterous ON ITS FACE. If the team fails, a Town Palmar would NOT take the blame. He'd try to figure out which of the others was scum and make sure they didn't get onto the D2 team. This should be fairly obvious. Palmar is trying to hussle us | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
I think Dirkzor and Navillus are town. I have already presented ample reasoning why, and I think they are by far the safest townies to take along on a mission. It's not bad play to take navillus, it's logical. You see, the advantage of this game is that you have to find townies, not scum. And it's in general much easier to find townies than it is to find scum. Like it's generally hard in a normal mafia game to eliminate a few townies from the lynch candidates, and then lynch into the rest of the people, which increases your chance of hitting scum. And while telling apart scum and lazy/bad/scummy townies is hard, it's much easier to pick out the few townies that normally would not get discussed for a lynch. So yeah, I think it's very, very unlikely navillus could allow himself to be so uncertain, so indecisive and so indifferent about the game if he was scum, it screams to me apathetic townie with a lack of confidence. I've already said Dirkzor is a good choice. So what does this make me? Sadly you can't really tell much about my alignment even if my picks are good, because it makes sense for scum to pick two townies to join on the mission. so it's either or. It makes no sense to say navillus is bad choice and thus I'm scum. Either navillus is bad choice (scum) and I'm a bad townie, or navillus is good choice and I'm scum, or the obvious and probably correct alternative Navillus is a good choice and I'm town. Seeing as I think I've already convinced most people on TL I'm kind of good at this, you should as scum be pushing the idea that I'm scum, and thus the team can't be accepted. You can't say "Navillus looks bad, thus palmar is scum" because that makes no sense for a scum team to do. Due to the risk of town just not picking anyone from the first team if the first team fails. So, which is it BH? Am I scum? or is navillus scum? You can't have it both ways. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
So, can we please just roll with this to test it? | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
Can you do that? | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
On February 21 2012 19:03 Blazinghand wrote: Like I'm just trying to imagine Palmar's reasoning here "Okay so I want to include myself on my team. I should include Dirkzor, since he looks town. Who should be my third teammate? Blazinghand? VE? Kita? No, you know what, Navillus sounds far more reasonable than those three, let's bring him he'll definitely not be a spy, yeah this is a good idea, and I, Palmar, a good player, will do this" oh no wait that's unbelivably bad Why do you work so hard to misrepresent my position. Do you not agree that it's unlikely scum-navillus would pull this off? | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
a) I was scum last game. b) I picked a good team c) I'm posting awesome stuff. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
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chaos13
Canada885 Posts
#1 On February 20 2012 04:20 Navillus wrote: Oh wow I've been busy for a bit and haven't been on TL in a couple days, it's really lucky that I went on today. Anyway Can I put forward team members one by one, or do I have to put all 3 at once and do I only get to put forth 1 team idea? So we've got Nav's first post, asking a generic question about the setup. I included this because of the excellent nature of the question. Which situation would benefit town more, voting on one player at a time, or voting on the whole team? One player at a time, obviously, as this eliminates the variable of the spy(s) present on a selected team remaining anonymous. While it is simply a question on setup, and as such can be made with equal ease by scum or town, I have to give this one to Navillus and say that it gained him some slight town cred from me. On February 21 2012 06:26 VisceraEyes wrote: Dirk is the most questionable of any of Palmar's proposed team - but I could be convinced to Yay a team that includes him based on his posts. He seems genuinely concerned about the fact that a team hasn't been proposed. It's a concern I share, and as such I'm gonna go ahead and ##Vote: Navillus: Nay Because if he's any kind of scum he'll have to include himself and his apparent disinterest in actually selecting a team makes me itchy about voting a team that includes him. So let it be written. This doesn't so much make me feel better about Nav as it does make me feel terrible about the person attacking him. Is VE, as he described Dirk, "genuinely concerned about the face that a team hasn't been proposed?". No. It's because he would have to include himself if he is scum, but he is apparently not interested in selecting a team, meaning that if he includes himself VE will Nay vote him. Wait, what? Top notch example of shitty scum analysis if I've ever seen one. I'll be nay-voting a team with VE on it from this point forth, and be much more comfortable with yay-ing a team that a scum doesn't want. On February 21 2012 09:31 Navillus wrote: Ahh shoot this is from my phone because I haven't had access to a computer for a while and I thought the deadline was later than it was, honestly though my plan was me, Palmer, and dirkzor with an explanation that it was more with the intent of discussion than a really strong advocacy because I don't have strong enough reads for that. This will all seem dodgy but I wouldn't be telling you my dodgy sounding strat after missing it if I were scum. That would have been my strat because I am town and know that I'm not good enough to get a really strong town team by myself. We see here something genuine. I cannot think of any reason why scum Navillus would post this after failing to submit a team and making himself such an obvious target. He takes responsibility, and steps into the spotlight - two things that scum never do. On February 21 2012 18:44 Palmar wrote: It seems very unlikely to me that a scum-navillus would have let the time run out, because it just seems to be kinda bad. I mean, I'm obviously taking a leap of faith including him on the team, but it just seems so much more likely this is apathetic town play than scum play. Completely agree with you. | ||
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chaos13
Canada885 Posts
Dirkzor. On February 19 2012 18:56 Dirkzor wrote: Yay... We're going to blow up that anniversary! Since we don't have a team up yet it's hard to discuss whether its a good or a bad team (also because we have had no discussion). So why the nay vote? O_o Considering that everyone will be town in their own eyes the best team you can possible get right now is one where you yourself are on since you know your own alignment. I would likely support any team with me on it as it guarentees 1/3 town right there. Any team that fails the mission the person who suggested the team should automaticly be under suspicion, even if the team is without that person (or perhaps especially so). He immediately begins by bagging on himself as a guaranteed town player, and explaining how obvious it is that he should be included on a team. Town motivations for such a post: - Create the most pro-town team possible Scum motivations: - Gain town credit - Get yourself on a team right off the bat The last part of the post is ready to incite tension once a team fails, as he immediately casts suspicion on any team leader who's team fails. I agreed with him on this previously, but with more careful consideration, I see what he is trying to do. Once Dirkzor has used his town credit and earned himself a place on a team on D1, he can sabotage it and then point to Navillus to take the blame, using this, his FIRST post, as reference. He's setting up a good play for the rest of the game with just his first post. [QUOTE]On February 20 2012 02:50 Dirkzor wrote: [QUOTE]On February 20 2012 00:49 prplhz wrote: Hi guys I'm just a regular townie, nothing to worry about here. As such, I should be on night1 team. [QUOTE] What purpose do you have for posting that?! And with colors?! Claiming to be town is what anyone would do at this point in the game. Adding on colors and "Nothing to worry about here" just rubs me the wrong way... Even if you call me town... [/QUOTE] Calling prplhz out for using colors. That's the only thing he has on him. Dirk claimed town the same way prplhz did, but once you start using colors apparently shit hits the fan. Incredibly bad accusation. What rubs me the wrong way is the last sentence in this post: "Even if you call me town..." So calling Dirkzor town gains you town cred in his eyes? Of course it does, because scum love when people think they're town. He'll buddy right up to you if you think he's town, because that means when he comes under fire he'll have some good ol' town players to do the defending for him. [QUOTE]On February 20 2012 19:33 Dirkzor wrote: Nav we need a team soon. Please. I'm glad for all the love I get this thread.. Must mean I'm doing something right =) But I do agree with kita. This overly buddying thing... just rubs me the wrong way. That was also why I called out prphlz out on his first post. It was a post just meant to be enhancing the effect that prphlz was town without him actually doing any pro town actions. "The first time someone calls you a horse you punch him on the nose, the second time someone calls you a horse you call him a jerk but the third time someone calls you a horse, well then perhaps it's time to go shopping for a saddle." The third time someone calls themself town I'll buy them a saddle...[/QUOTE] Check it out again. Buddying right on up to the people calling him town, and then moments later he jumps on the kita anti-buddying bandwagon. And once again, he calls out prplhz for the exact same things that he has done himself. Get ready to buy yourself a saddle Dirk, you're starting to sound like a broken record. [QUOTE]On February 21 2012 05:57 Dirkzor wrote: I wouldn't want Kita on a team.[/QUOTE] Brilliant! Bravo! What a persuading argument! Scum love to create tension, suspicion, and dissonance without being pointed to as the cause. Much as with the town buddying problem mentioned earlier, such posts can change a casual town reader's mind without them realizing what's going on. Scum don't like to be brought into the spotlight, and so here Dirk hasn't bothered falsifying a case. He wants someone else to do the dirty work for him. So in summary, Dirkzor is a dirty spy. Nay vote Team Palmar. | ||
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Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
I agree with you on Navillus. There is nothing wrong with calling yourself town. I did it. Palmar did it and so did others. But there are ways to do it where you overdo it. Thats what prplhz did. With colors and the "nothing to see here" remark. Thats what stood out and I stand by that. Prphlz asked earlier why I only called him out and not Palmar, this is why. If a team fails everyone on the team are under suspicion. This should be obvious. If a team fails with me on it I would understand not sending me on the next mission. What I wanted to press was that if a team gets approved without the teamleader himself on it, does not exclude the teamleader for suspicion. For the rest of your arguments... O_o On February 21 2012 22:58 chaos13 wrote: Calling prplhz out for using colors. That's the only thing he has on him. Dirk claimed town the same way prplhz did, but once you start using colors apparently shit hits the fan. Incredibly bad accusation. What rubs me the wrong way is the last sentence in this post: "Even if you call me town..." So calling Dirkzor town gains you town cred in his eyes? Of course it does, because scum love when people think they're town. He'll buddy right up to you if you think he's town, because that means when he comes under fire he'll have some good ol' town players to do the defending for him. What?! Overthinking it are we? He called me town and I still said he made a bad post. Thats about it. No buddying here? On February 21 2012 22:58 chaos13 wrote: Check it out again. Buddying right on up to the people calling him town, and then moments later he jumps on the kita anti-buddying bandwagon. And once again, he calls out prplhz for the exact same things that he has done himself. Get ready to buy yourself a saddle Dirk, you're starting to sound like a broken record. Brilliant! Bravo! What a persuading argument! Scum love to create tension, suspicion, and dissonance without being pointed to as the cause. Much as with the town buddying problem mentioned earlier, such posts can change a casual town reader's mind without them realizing what's going on. Scum don't like to be brought into the spotlight, and so here Dirk hasn't bothered falsifying a case. He wants someone else to do the dirty work for him. So in summary, Dirkzor is a dirty spy. Nay vote Team Palmar. First when have I buddying up with anyone? Please point this out. I don't want Kita on a mission. I have my reason and I'm surprised that no one else have seen what I have. If I'm scum and don't want to be in the spotlight what have I been doing all game? Why would I make a statement without reason? This whole case reeks of overthinking because people think you are scummy and you want to contribute so you had to find something to make a case on. I'm on the fence about you and your post about Navillus was really good. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On February 21 2012 23:22 Dirkzor wrote: I don't want Kita on a mission. I have my reason and I'm surprised that no one else have seen what I have. If I'm scum and don't want to be in the spotlight what have I been doing all game? Why would I make a statement without reason? So what exactly is this reason that you don't mention, but are surprised that everyone hasn't picked up on? No reason to keep it a secret. Palmar, I dislike how many times you are calling yourself confirmed town. What does your alignment in past games have anything to do with your current alignment? I mentioned that I would nay a team with Nav, but I actually think I might change my mind. I don't see a reason why a scum player would dodge a team selection, rather than just nominate himself and two others. I like that dirk is aggressive and vocal, but I'll wait to see what his reasoning is to want to deny my spot. I know I'm town, so the best way I can ensure we pass the first mission is if I'm part of the team. I'll probably be voting nay unless something changes my mind in the next 12 hours. | ||
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Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
On February 19 2012 20:01 Dirkzor wrote: I never said I would suggest a team without myself on it. As you said it would be stupid as I can only confirm my own allignment. (As for now. I can see situation later in the game where suggesting a team without myself might be beneficial to town) But that does not invalidate my point. If you suggest a team, and that mission fail, everyone on the team should be under suspicion - agree? But you (the teamleader) even more since you might be privy to more information then the rest of us if you are scum. If it so happened that you suggested a team without youself on it and it still failed you would be even more suspicious. Your point about Nay voting every team until you can make your own team are bad. I agree it would be smart to be teamleader so you are sure that no scum are the leader but we will never get a mission going if everyone thinks like that. | ||
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