EPTIncognito's TL Mafia XVI - Page 74
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[NyC]HoBbes
United States803 Posts
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flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
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meeple
Canada10211 Posts
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510Sushi
Azerbaijan331 Posts
On January 27 2010 10:37 [NyC]HoBbes wrote: meeple's post count is all sixes. clearly he is evil and we should lynch him (until he makes another post) HAIL SATAN! | ||
Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=mystlord&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=mystlord&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi Your image result is last on the first page, and you're referring to FANART that nobody knows about unless they have some sort of hell bent motive to search up my nickname on google or something. ... Ok time to calm down... Basically what I'm saying is that you're falling into the trap of kane]deth[ again, where you're picking out some random part of the clue and trying to lynch based off of that. By the way, this is the only time the word "mystlord" appears on the AdventureQuest forums (where your picture source is from) A wand? You're kidding me. If you can find a way to logically connect that to pummeling Faronel with my bare fists and digging through his pockets for food, I'll vote to lynch myself. I'll post more later, but one last thing: On January 27 2010 08:30 meeple wrote: As for this, the mist reference isn't particularly the strongest of all, but I don't think it can be discounted. Clues very well be plays on the words, it doesn't necessarily have to be so obvious. As for now, its the only thing that fits that kill, and at the moment it fits it rather well. You're forgetting the strangulation by scarf. Why wouldn't I just leave him to die by the mist? By the way, mist is visible. The story of Zona's death features him walking into an area that was clear. At the very least, there's no mention of mist or obscured vision. | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
I submit to you our first real plan to clean up our town. I am going to make the argument that we need to lynch DoctorHelvetica. Also, we need to vote for a double lynching, so we can move quickly once he is gone. The arguments below come primarily from my own doubts, strengthened by an alleged detective who contacted me on their own. Two other players contacted me with an independent effort to lynch DoctorHelvetica. Together, these bits of information paint a pretty strong case. At this time, all participants will remain anonymous (even to each other), for safety reasons. Facts: 1.Clue from day 1 - "He pulled out a thin knife and ran forward to stab Qatol in the chest." was checked and confirmed to point to DoctorHelvetica, according to the alleged detective. I have not had much contact with this source, but if it turns out they are lying, I will post their name on the forum and we go from there. 2. I’ve had a PM exchange with DoctorHelvetica, after he privately told Zona I had been checked by a detective and came up green. At that point in time he had no reason to trust Zona, but he chose to share that information with him nonetheless. DoctoHelvetica himself admits he was careless – either because he was a green making an honest mistake, or because he is mafia who did not have any reason to care/worry about another player's safety and the town's ability to coordinate their efforts. Given his otherwise careful nature and active behavior in this thread, you need to decide for yourselves which version makes more sense. Note how, towards the end of the exchange, when he runs out of arguments, he ends up trying to convince me to lynch keit instead. Read from bottom to top, my posts are in green and any bold highlights were added by me: Original Message: I can post my PM conversation with Zona if you'd like. Something like that would be pretty hard to fake. Also, keit has strong clues from day 1 connecting to him, has been mostly inactive, and just popped in the thread out of nowhere: not to defend himself, but to point his finger at me. That screams mafia to me. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: Right, I think night two I am a prime target for a mafia hit, thanks to that postmortem post. In the end I would love to think you just made an error and took a chance. However, if your communication with Zona (and maybe others?) was deliberate/mafia, nobody will pick-up on that once I get killed. Once again, I wish there was a safe I could lock information in and make it available if I die, just so it does not get lost. Anyway... why keit? ----------------------------------------- Original Message: That's a fair point. However, killing someone who is confirmed to the entire town as green, because of Bill Murrays post-death post, they might suspect other blues will network through you and hit you for that reason. Once medics start dying, I'm guessing you'll be a prime suspect. That being said, I won't ask you to trust me, but I would ask you to reconsider pushing for my lynch. At the very least, I'll submit to you keit is a better and more sure target for the town as of now. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: Again, I think this is wrong: yes, I would have made a good target IF THEY DID NOT KNOW WHO THE DETECTIVE WAS. If they did know, they could sever that trust/information link by just killing him. This is what happened, so I became rather useless. Now, Bill did post after death that I was green, but this should not have happened - it was a violation of the rules. In principle I should have been useless to the town at that point, who cares if I claimed to be green, nobody would have believed me, exactly as the mafia would have intended it. And they could use another hit on someone else with a chance of hitting a blue. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: I suppose that is true. However, you were not hit. You certainly would have made a better target than Abenson if the mafia had reason to suspect you were co ordinating with blues. Although I do admit it was something I shouldn't have done, I guess I was a bit too trusting there. We're probably both suspicious to the town at this time, since we are the only two people who 100% knew BM was a detective. That being said, I find it strange you're voting for my lynching on those grounds. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: Its not important if the mafia knows I'm green - that is true. It IS however important if he knows other greens/blues know it too, because then they would want to stop any coordination and/or information flow. The best situation for the mafia is when greens/blues know nothing and suspect everyone. So if the mafia knows I a in contact with a blue, even if they don't know who the blue is, it DOES make me a target. By killing me they can sever that link and annul any role-check advantage. So I continue to be puzzled as to why you chose to make that information known to someone who was not role-checked. Of course, I guess if it was an honest mistake, there is no way to argue /defend it, it just happened. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: hm? I didn't talk to zona much. like I said before, whether or not he knows your green isn't a big deal. I never told him Bill Murray was the detective or anything like that. From the way he posts and the way he talked to me, I'm pretty sure he is pro-town, i can't be 100% certain and that is why I didn't reveal any information that would be critical to mafia lynching decisions. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: The thing I still don't get is why you decided to trust Zona without any proof whatsoever. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: I've posted in defense of myself multiple times. I'd think people would think again before moving to lynch the most active townie, but I suppose not. The mafia really hurt me by killing Bill Murray, even though it was easily detectable that he was a blue from his public posts :/ ----------------------------------------- Original Message: There is a growing movement to lynch you next. I would really love to hear your side of things and believe you are green/blue. 3. Bill Murray connection. As far as I can tell, Bill told two people he was a detective: DoctorHelvetica and myself. Others may or may not have suspected it, but there was no way of being sure. 4. Posting behavior: in the last analysis DoctorHelvetica posted on page 67, I believe he clearly leaves out many obvious clues and chooses to focus, yet again, on keit, hobbes and flamewheel. On page 68 I specifically ask for his opinion on this clue: Zona noticed that even the air was gradually growing harsh and stifling. He was starting to have difficulty breathing. The thick air stuck to the back of his throat and filled his nostrils, making him feel dizzy and drowsy. He tried to fight the sensation but couldn't and keeled over, unconscious. A man with a scarf wrapped around his face appeared above him, looking perfectly at home in the oppressive atmosphere. You’ve all seen DoctorHelvetica's response – he cannot think of ANY suspect for the above clue. I find the connection to Mystlord obvious - decide for yourself how strong or weak it is, but it is undeniably there! Furthermore, he continues to ignore references to Mystlord for the next few pages - he does not even acknowledge others picked him as a likely suspect. This is just not balanced behavior from an honest Sheriff, who also happens to be our most active poster and a past keen reader of clues. In summary: there are clues pointing to DoctorHelvetica; there is a report from a player claiming a clue-check confirmed he is indeed mafia; he chose to share potentially sensitive information with players he had no reason to trust; his posting behavior seems shaky. One more thing I want to reiterate: if we lynch DoctorHelvetica and he turns green, I will reveal the name of the supposed clue-checker, as well as make public conversations with other players who privately argued strongly in favor of lynching DoctorHelvetica. This is an important junction in our game - we are finally close to solid leads rather than endless speculation based solely on vague clues. We need to vote for a double lynch today so we have it available after we lynch DoctorHelvetica - regardless of how it turns out he is the key information node. I am coordinating with an alleged vigilante as well, so we should be able to get the mafia KP down to 2 one way or another. My votes: YES to double lynching; YES to lynching DoctorHelvetica. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
I strongly feel that keit is mafia and that while the clue reference to Mystlord is indeed strong, I don't think it is anywhere near the level of the connection to keit. I also have dictated the use of my incarceration power to the town. If keit is lynched tonight and turns green/blue, then go ahead and lynch me if you think it'll get you more information. If I was mafia, there would be no reason to stick my neck out this far and be this active for the town. I'd have nothing to gain and everything to lose. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
If keit turns up green, that's fair reason to suspect me. However, I'm fairly certain he's mafia. The clue connections are just too strong, and his behavior is suspicious enough. | ||
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Ng5
702 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
If mafia are going to vote for mafia, wouldn't they bandwagon onto it rather than start the bandwagon themselves? | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
I've made my case as clearly as I could, please read my post carefully and decide for yourselves. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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Ng5
702 Posts
Enough of this. Time to decide, everyone can do it on their own. Today's decision and the consequences will pretty much decide which side will win. It can be either 10-11 vs 3 for town or complete and utter annihilation.  | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On January 27 2010 12:29 Ng5 wrote: We're also getting ahead of clues which are probably overlapping each other. It would also benefit the mafia to sacrifice one member for the possible safety of another. Wouldn't it? Enough of this. Time to decide, everyone can do it on their own. Today's decision and the consequences will pretty much decide which side will win. It can be either 10-11 vs 3 for town or complete and utter annihilation. Sure, but it wouldn't make sense for a mafia to out of nowhere begin a bandwagon on another mafia. If keit and myself were both mafia. Why would a mafia member decide to paint the most active poster red? It doesn't make any sense. | ||
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Ng5
702 Posts
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[NyC]HoBbes
United States803 Posts
At this point, I regret to say that I agree we need to lynch Dr.H. The risk of him being in the position he is in and red outweighs the risk of lynching a very active green. I'm not 100% sure that DrH is mafia, but I feel that any possibility of it is too great a risk for us to allow him to remain in the game. Thirdly, worst comes to worst and he comes up green, we have some serious leads based on the DT who "cluechecked." Either way we'll end up with leads. Fourthly and lastly, Medics, at least one of you guys needs to be protecting citizen, since he's the only person who is for sure on our side, and since he has all of the information in this scenario via PM's. | ||
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
At this point, the fact of the matter is that either keit or DoctorHelvetica is innocent. One is absolutely a townie, because we cannot have two people making such great pushes for each other to be lynched as both mafia. Therefore, the possible combinations are: mafia vs townie and townie vs townie. I personally highly doubt a townie vs townie situation because of the fact that by lynching the other, the person pushing for the lynch will almost certainly appear innocent. Therefore, I believe that we have a mafia vs townie situation. In that line of thinking, confirming the identity of one will confirm the identity of the other. By lynching DH, we'll know keit's true colors, and by lynching keit, we'll know DH's true colors. Therefore, the question now becomes who to lynch? My personal vote is for keit. Here's my reasoning: If we lynch DoctorHelvetica, we lose a vital power that will almost certainly confirm whether a person is mafia or not, as well as protect a vital blue or townie (if things get that desperate). Therefore, in this situation, where we're unsure as to the guilt or innocence of either player, we have to make the decision to try and save our powers as best as possible, especially considering the fact that we have lynched no mafia. Therefore, we have a lot more to lose from lynching DoctorHelvetica and finding out that he's green/blue, versus lynching keit and finding out that he's green/blue. One final point on this. We have to realize that at this point, we for sure for sure have at least two clues on one mafia member. We have 8 clues for 7 mafia, so we're looking for repeating themes. If there's one repeating theme that I've seen, it's almost certainly referring to the cookie monster. Whether it's the apple shoving down the throat from day 1, or the barbarous nature of either the 2nd or 3rd attack from day 2, we've seen a lot more evidence pointing to keit than to DH. Therefore, I again emphasize my vote to lynch keit. | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
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