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Coca forfeits Code S due to ESV weekly scandal - Page 65

Forum Index > SC2 General
1944 CommentsPost a Reply
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sereniity
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Sweden1159 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-15 14:47:26
November 15 2011 14:38 GMT
#1281
This is just ridicolous lol...

As ppl mentioned, first round of the tournament. You're allowed to forfeit games, this was just less subtle and a more obvious motive...

MASSIVE overreaction imo...

Fine about him being banned from the Korean Weekly but thrown out of the Training House and Code S? What the fuck...
"I am Day9, Holy shit!"
Grettin
Profile Joined April 2010
42381 Posts
November 15 2011 14:39 GMT
#1282
On November 15 2011 23:37 Asha` wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 15 2011 23:36 Plansix wrote:
On November 15 2011 23:29 Asha` wrote:
On November 15 2011 23:25 Xalorian wrote:
On November 15 2011 23:18 Msr wrote:
why does anybody care if a player does this... If a player wants to throw a match that is their own decision.


So he can bet all is money against himself and throw the game...? Seems right.

This is not a little fun game or event match, it's a qualifier. There was money on the line. What about all those peoples that got eliminated by CoCa that could probably have won this thing otherwise? WHY IN THE HELL would you subscribe to a tournament if you would just throw it up if you were playing against a mate? What if all team start doing that? It's just not fair for the others.



It's not a qualifier.
No one else got eliminated by Coca.
It was the first round of the tournament.
There's no money for anyone outside the top 4.


It does not matter. Throwing a match at the request of you opponent is bad and likely against the rules of any tournament. It is your decision to do so, but by doing so you risk being thrown out of the league. Anyone objecting to them being thrown out is just plain silly.


I do think there's been a spectacular overreaction though from other parties.


Why? Because all i see here is a clear message to everyone. If you get caught, you will get punished for it -- so don't do it.
"If I had force-fields in Brood War, I'd never lose." -Bisu
ClaytonBigsby
Profile Joined November 2011
Uganda35 Posts
November 15 2011 14:39 GMT
#1283
Is he going to be replaced for his code S group? Whats the plans with that anyone know?
shell
Profile Joined October 2010
Portugal2722 Posts
November 15 2011 14:40 GMT
#1284
After the match fixing scandal in SK they probably think this might harm all that was acomplished after that case, so i kinda understand it. It seems a bit harsh, but at the same time they shouldn't have done this.

BENFICA || Besties: idra, Stephano, Nestea, Jaedong, Serral, Jinro, Scarlett || Zerg <3
Derez
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Netherlands6068 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-15 14:41:20
November 15 2011 14:40 GMT
#1285
On November 15 2011 23:36 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 15 2011 23:29 Asha` wrote:
On November 15 2011 23:25 Xalorian wrote:
On November 15 2011 23:18 Msr wrote:
why does anybody care if a player does this... If a player wants to throw a match that is their own decision.


So he can bet all is money against himself and throw the game...? Seems right.

This is not a little fun game or event match, it's a qualifier. There was money on the line. What about all those peoples that got eliminated by CoCa that could probably have won this thing otherwise? WHY IN THE HELL would you subscribe to a tournament if you would just throw it up if you were playing against a mate? What if all team start doing that? It's just not fair for the others.



It's not a qualifier.
No one else got eliminated by Coca.
It was the first round of the tournament.
There's no money for anyone outside the top 4.


It does not matter. Throwing a match at the request of you opponent is bad and likely against the rules of any tournament. It is your decision to do so, but by doing so you risk being thrown out of the league. Anyone objecting to them being thrown out is just plain silly.


I have no problem with coca being tossed out of the weekly, which is perfectly reasonable. The problem is that he won't be playing in code S anymore because of doing this.

This isn't matchfixing, this is an individual choosing not to compete for a match a.k.a. forfeiting, which is his choice. There have been plently of players doing exactly the same thing (IPL groupstage comes to mind).
Badfatpanda
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States9719 Posts
November 15 2011 14:43 GMT
#1286
On November 15 2011 23:31 Montana[TK] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 15 2011 22:55 Asha` wrote:
On November 15 2011 22:52 jeeeeohn wrote:
Is it possible that these two are just friends and Coca wanted to give the guy another shot? It wouldn't be premeditated, just a spot. I dunno, I think the scene is paranoid.

Of course, maybe I'm completely wrong and this really was match fixing.


It's exactly what you said in your first sentence, they're ex-teammates and played together for months on Zenex. It was the very first round of the tournament and Coca decided he wanted to play the full bo3, sadly he lost the third game so everyone exploded now though -___-



hahaha come on Asha, he never wanted to win that g3 when he left g2 at 4base/180 vs 0base/45 supply, you really can't argue that :/


don't comment if you didn't see the matches, he played straight up and it seemed like they were just screwing around, I didn't think anything of it until I got to read this thread lol. It's ridiculous because there was no harm done to anyone else in the tourney, first round.
Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy. -Beethoven | Mech isn't a build, it's a way of life. -MajOr | Charlie.Sheen: "What is sarcastic, kids who have no courage to fight?" | #TerranPride #yolo #swag -Naama after 2-0'ing MC at HSC VI
SeinGalton
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
South Africa387 Posts
November 15 2011 14:43 GMT
#1287
This is getting dumb. Coca clearly made a mistake and is clearly guilty. Yes, the punishment on the player is unnecessarily severe, given not the nature of his crime but the transparent naïveté in which it was committed. That said, this is a breach of contract with SlayerS, and it will be SlayerS who best decide how to deal with the issue, not popular consensus.

It seems clear that this incident does not spell the end of his career. Coca will return to Code S, and all we can really hope for is that he will do wearing the SlayerS jersey.

They're coming to get you, Barbara.
clusen
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany8702 Posts
November 15 2011 14:47 GMT
#1288
On November 15 2011 23:39 Grettin wrote:
Why? Because all i see here is a clear message to everyone. If you get caught, you will get punished for it -- so don't do it.

You can get that message across without kicking him out of Code S(or forcing him to forfeit) and out of the team house and forbidding him to enter any tournaments in the near future. That he is not allowed to enter future ESV tournaments is a logical consequence, maybe some inhouse punishment aswell, but all those things together is way too much.

Coca is 17, you do stupid things at that age. I don't want to defend him, what he he did was utterly stupid, but there is not a reason to make such a big deal out of it imo.
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-15 15:02:54
November 15 2011 14:47 GMT
#1289
Reposted for clarity:
+ Show Spoiler [Mr Chae's statements] +
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285580&currentpage=4#76

On November 15 2011 13:35 Clefairy wrote:
VOD with wtf moment: http://www.twitch.tv/esvision/b/300029464?t=55m00s

Mr Chae's official statement:
Hello this is Mr Chae.

ESV TV is a foreign tournament that formed a partnership with the GSL and awarded players with GSL Nov. Code A seeds. However a partnership has not been confirmed for the GSL's first season of Code A in 2012, and we are still negotiating with ESV TV at the moment (this is because we are gathering feedback from all the teams on the GSL format during this Nov. season so any changes in format for 2012 may not accommodate a partnership).

However, even if it is a tournament that does not award GSL Code A seeds, the use of profanities in a broadcast with many viewers and a blatant disregard for competition cannot be ignored by the GSL.

We are unable to make a decision on the punishment yet based on only screenshots and the community. Therefore, we will be asking Prime and SlayerS about the situation and what further action should be taken.

The consequences that the players will need to face will be announced as soon as possible after the situation has been assessed.

Thank you.

Source: http://esports.gomtv.com/gsl/community/view.gom?mbid=1&msgid=23901&p=1

Mr Chae's unofficial statement:
[image loading]
Control your brains as well.
+ Show Spoiler [SlayerS, Jessica, Boxer reactions] +
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285580&currentpage=7#134

On November 15 2011 13:43 Tanatos wrote:
Full translation

슬레이어스가 ESV TV 코리안 위클리 시즌4 ‘고의 패배’ 사건에 대해 공식 사과하고 최종환을 집으로 돌려보냈다.
Team SlayerS apologize about what happen to Coca's 'match fixing' during the ESV TV Korean Weekly S4 and send Coca back to home.


슬레이어스 김가연 게임단주는 “슬레이어스에 소속된 선수가 온라인 대회에서 고의 패배로 물의를 일으켜 죄송하다”고 말한 뒤 “이번 사건은 대회의 규모나 경기의 중요도에 관계없이 e스포츠 팬들에게 오해를 줄 수 있는 명백한 실수다. 팀 소속 선수에 대한 관리가 부족했던 것을 반성하고, 앞으로는 절대로 이런 일이 재발하지 않도록 노력하겠다”고 말했다.

Manager SlayerSJessica said, "I am sorry about what happen to one of SlayerS member during the online tournament." "This is complete mistake from us to e-sports fans to cause misundertanding with no matter of importance nor size of tournament. I regret about reckless management and I will work hard to prevent such an incident ever again."


임요환 역시 “과거 승부조작 파문이 어떤 결과를 초래했는지 모두 알고 있다. 비록 온라인에서 진행된 일이라고 할지라도 선수로서 절대 해선 안될 일을 저지른 것”이라고 말한 뒤 “팀의 맏형으로서 사과 드리고, 이번 사건이 얼마나 나쁜 일인지 선수들에게 인지시키고 더 멋진 경기를 보여드릴 수 있도록 노력하겠다”고 덧붙였다.

Boxer also said, "We all know what result match fix scandal has caused. Even in online tournament, this is a non-exceptable matter as progamer." "I apologize as big brother of the team, and I will remind how terrible it is to other players, and we will work hard to show you better games."

슬레이어스는 이번 사건의 책임을 물어 최종환을 2군으로 강등시키고 집으로 귀가 시켰다. 또한, 자숙과 반성의 의미로 앞으로 펼쳐지는 국내외 모든 스타2 대회에 최종환을 출전시키지 않는다고 말했다. 슬레이어스의 이번 징계는 무기한 조치이며, 최종환이 대회에 출전할 수 있는 상황이 됐다고 판단했을 때 복귀할 수 있다.

SlayerS asked responsiblity of this incident to Coca and place him to B team and set him home. Also, by the meaning of self-reflect, SlayerS will ban Coca to any Starcraft 2 matches inside of Korea and rest of the world. This decision is for an indefinite period, and Coca will be back to SC2 when he is ready.

사건의 당사자인 최종환은 반성의 의미로 소니에릭슨 GSL 시즌7 코드S를 기권했다. 최종환은 이번 사건의 책임을 통감하고 스스로 코드S 잔여경기 출전을 포기하고 자숙하기로 결정했다. 이에 따라 최종환은 오는 16일 열리는 소니에릭슨 GSL 시즌7 코드S 16강 C조 경기에 출전하지 않는다.

Coca has forfeit the GSL Nov. Code S for meaning of self-reflect. Coca himself has felt responsible to this incident and forfeit the rest of matches. So, Coca will not be on GSL Code S RO16 Group C match on 16th.

한편, 곰TV는 커뮤니티 공지를 통해 이번 사건에 대한 공식입장을 발표했다. 채정원 팀장은 ESV TV와 GSL의 연계와 관련된 내용을 설명하고, 공식적인 확인 절차가 끝난 뒤 선수들에 대한 징계나 처벌에 대해 공식 발표하겠다고 밝혔다.

GomTV has announced their official comment on community board. Mr. Chae has explained relationship between ESV TV and GSL. After their official comfirmation, discipline action on players will be announced.
+ Show Spoiler [Game Chat of Coca and Byun] +
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285580&currentpage=40#790

On November 15 2011 16:11 anrimayu wrote:
Here's the chat log in question. I omitted parts that are irrelevant.

1:00
C: i'll let you win
B: fuck off.


3:48
B: fuck, you said you'll let me win
C: I have to practice, there's 3 Ts in my group
...
C: I'm here just because I don't have other Ts to practice
B: Next opponent is P, so just forfeit
B: Where's your teams T?
C: G-star event

26:20, Coca at 150pop 4 mining bases to Byun's 45pop 0 mining base
B: fuck, get out, fuck fuck
C: I forfeit
B: let's do game 3 too
C: gg *leaves the game



Also clarification: Coca and Byun are really good friends, and known for somewhat playful character in events.
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
Feito
Profile Joined February 2011
United States65 Posts
November 15 2011 14:49 GMT
#1290
That's... a lot of controversy. Mind blown. @_@
"To be forgotten is worse than death."
MuK_x
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
743 Posts
November 15 2011 14:49 GMT
#1291
SlayerS&Jessica overreacting as always.

sigh...
IdrA "TT1 actually fucked up and didn't see the hatchery,so im at a really big advantage right now,assuming he reacts intelligently which is not something you should assume with TT1"
Montana[TK]
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
1624 Posts
November 15 2011 14:50 GMT
#1292
On November 15 2011 23:43 Badfatpanda wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 15 2011 23:31 Montana[TK] wrote:
On November 15 2011 22:55 Asha` wrote:
On November 15 2011 22:52 jeeeeohn wrote:
Is it possible that these two are just friends and Coca wanted to give the guy another shot? It wouldn't be premeditated, just a spot. I dunno, I think the scene is paranoid.

Of course, maybe I'm completely wrong and this really was match fixing.


It's exactly what you said in your first sentence, they're ex-teammates and played together for months on Zenex. It was the very first round of the tournament and Coca decided he wanted to play the full bo3, sadly he lost the third game so everyone exploded now though -___-



hahaha come on Asha, he never wanted to win that g3 when he left g2 at 4base/180 vs 0base/45 supply, you really can't argue that :/


don't comment if you didn't see the matches, he played straight up and it seemed like they were just screwing around, I didn't think anything of it until I got to read this thread lol. It's ridiculous because there was no harm done to anyone else in the tourney, first round.


i don't need to see the matches, he clearly went out of his way and publicly announced his will to _not win_ a series by leaving that g2 when he had the whole thing won. There's nothing more to discuss, this is a textbook example of match-fixing and they both should've been smarter than to do what they did.
Plexa: "It's not [caster] bashing when its the truth."
Strydor
Profile Joined August 2011
Singapore95 Posts
November 15 2011 14:50 GMT
#1293
What, am I the only one thinking they were punished fairly like the professional gamers that they are?
Xalorian
Profile Joined September 2011
Canada433 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-15 15:01:06
November 15 2011 14:52 GMT
#1294
On November 15 2011 23:29 Asha` wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 15 2011 23:25 Xalorian wrote:
On November 15 2011 23:18 Msr wrote:
why does anybody care if a player does this... If a player wants to throw a match that is their own decision.


So he can bet all is money against himself and throw the game...? Seems right.

This is not a little fun game or event match, it's a qualifier. There was money on the line. What about all those peoples that got eliminated by CoCa that could probably have won this thing otherwise? WHY IN THE HELL would you subscribe to a tournament if you would just throw it up if you were playing against a mate? What if all team start doing that? It's just not fair for the others.



It's not a qualifier.
No one else got eliminated by Coca.
It was the first round of the tournament.
There's no money for anyone outside the top 4.


I didn't know that it was the first round.

My points are still valid. There was money on the line in the end, and it was a qualifier : if i'm not mistaken, there is a code A spot. (Turn out that there was no coda A spot on the line either, my bad. I can't read Korean ><')

And no matter what, it is still not fair. Coca would not have done that for a random guy.

I do think that the punishement is too harsh, but a punishement is needed. They are professional, they just can't do that at all, no matter what. It's just silly.

Edit : It was indeed blatant match fixing. It's worse than I thought. Look like it was planned.


"1:00
C: i'll let you win
B: fuck off.


3:48
B: fuck, you said you'll let me win
C: I have to practice, there's 3 Ts in my group
...
C: I'm here just because I don't have other Ts to practice
B: Next opponent is P, so just forfeit
B: Where's your teams T?
C: G-star event

26:20, Coca at 150pop 4 mining bases to Byun's 45pop 0 mining base
B: fuck, get out, fuck fuck
C: I forfeit
B: let's do game 3 too
C: gg *leaves the game"
sVnteen
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany2238 Posts
November 15 2011 14:52 GMT
#1295
On November 15 2011 13:26 Mordiford wrote:
Wait, what ESL controversy, I can't exactly read the source either. More information please.



its ESV not esl



omg thats just kinda ridiculous lol

that was just so silly by coca to do that since he was a very promising code S zerg and he just ruined it all

he will fight his way back when time has come though im sure
MY LIFE STARTS NOW ♥
purecarnagge
Profile Joined August 2010
719 Posts
November 15 2011 14:55 GMT
#1296
Coca doesn't know what it means to be a professional gamer apparently. I suggest he shows up for up/downs for code A. I think he's deer in the headlights moment should be a very acceptable teaching moment for him.

Its pretty obvious he wasn't fixing for $$$. He just wanted some games.
gwixter
Profile Joined January 2011
Slovakia336 Posts
November 15 2011 15:00 GMT
#1297
overreaction imo

how is this different from stephano vs bratok match? (except at assembly those two didn't talk about it openly in chat)
"If you can chill, chill" - Liquid`Tyler || <3 Kiira Korpi :D
slicknav
Profile Joined January 2011
1409 Posts
November 15 2011 15:01 GMT
#1298
On November 15 2011 23:50 Strydor wrote:
What, am I the only one thinking they were punished fairly like the professional gamers that they are?


You're not. All sports are like this; hockey, football, baseball, basketball, ect...

When players show blatant disregard for competition and don't live up to the standards of their respective teams, they are punished. Coca and Byun deserve what happened to them.
blah blah blah...
Termit
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden3466 Posts
November 15 2011 15:01 GMT
#1299
People are saying that they are afraid that match fixing will kill esports and they need to set examples and what not. But imo SlayerS and GSL created this "scandal" by themselfs by reacting this way. Honestly, I doubt many people here would actually know and care about this "match fixing" if it wasn't for CoCa being kicked out of the house and getting DQ from Code S and this thread. CoCa dropping game 2 didn't kill esports and it's no match fixing scandal that should be compared to what happened in Brood War last year. No one gained anything from this. If SlayerS are against this they should have been talking to CoCa about it only and not go out in public and just fucking smash him like this and go half way to destroy his sc2 career.

People in here are just bandwagoning.
( ̄。 ̄)~zzz ◕ ◡ ◕
nttea
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Sweden4353 Posts
November 15 2011 15:04 GMT
#1300
This is way too harsh!! poor coca
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