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For the people who think dandel's posting is scummy, consider this:
A lot of the stuff he has said looks scummy, but it only looks scummy if you already think rethos is scum. He's being accused of trying to deflect attention onto remedy, but lets look at the motivations behind that. Yes, he could do it if he is scum, but would he be so obvious about it? Also if he was trying to deflect onto remedy then wouldn't the other mafia try to pitch in and help deflect? Now if he is town, then of course he will be super aggressive about trying to get other people to comment on his reads. That's pretty much a townie's primary objective if they think that they are gonna be mislynched. If they know they will die then the most helpful thing they could possibly to is to try and get people discussion their reads so that when they flip green then town will have a lot to look at.
Like I said I've thought dandel's posting was scummy but that scum read is only based off of me thinking that rethos was scum. And one thing I haven't considered about rethos is that if he was lying about being bored he could still be town. Also it is somewhat accepted that you are supposed to give replacements a decent amount of time to play before you lynch them. So for all of those reasons I don't like the idea of lynching dandel today. I think more time is needed to get a read on him.
Therefore, ##Unvote
So now I want to lynch either remedy or stutters. I think both are very good options. I've talked a lot about remedy but basically nobody outside of the people who share reads on everything have shared their reads on him.
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edit: "the most helpful thing they could possibly do is to try and get people to discuss"
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btw guys i'm going to a drumline thingy in 3 hours so if you haven't shared your top reads please do so soon. I'll be phone posting after that but I'd rather be able to vote while on a laptop than while on a phone lol
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@thrawn welcome to the shitiness of phone posting.
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I don't know where the fuck this remedy shit is coming from.. can someone summarize the arguments against him. like 1 sentence each.
from what I remember the case boils down to
he doesn't support his suspicions with arguments
he voted for a non bandwagon d1
anything else? cause that's looking mighty weak
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Ok -so I haven't read the full thread since my last post but my opinion on Remedy based on his filter:
D1 - doesn't want to lynch lurkers, Posts bad case on Kush (imho - attacking someone for wanting to lynch lurkers is not attacking someone for scum play), Goes away and avoids d1 drama.
Okay, I was around reading the thread for the last 30-40 minutes before lynch time. I honestly didn't know what I could say to have an impact on the vote. It was clear to me that drazak was going to be lynched, and I didn't see any way for me to change that. - Scummy thing to say for sure, "false regret" is a dumb scum thing - If he didn't want a drazak lynch he should have said so.
Posts more bad inferences about Kush.
Decent post on Stutters - pointing out a fair argument against him from my perspective (as I know I am town). But this is not hard for mafia to do either as they know everyone's alignments (except if there is an sk) - so this is null.
Pointless cellphone posts, defends Rethos at a weird time when there was a big back and forth about it going on - ok but he never follows it up, pointless post.
Points out something obviously scummy from stutters.
Overall - poor posts, one that looks obviously scummy and lots that don't help us scumhunting (somewhat scum). He would be a decent lynch. My problem is that there are several decent lynches.... difficult to decide between them.
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Edit: also - it was Kush who started the wagon on Stutters. Remedy pushed and voted for Kush D1 and has not said that he has changed his mind. Remedy why are you so eager joining a wagon (albeit on a player you did say you thought was scummy) started by another player you thought was scummy? Were you not worried that one of your scum reads was pushing the other?
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Ok. Having a vote on an outlier who is in no possible danger of being lynched suggests not giving a shit about who is lynched. Also, he comes into the thread (6 minutes I think?) after the vote deadline after being afk for quite a while. He even admitted to lurking in the thread and his explanation was:
"I could have easily gone after drazak or Cubu Day 1, but instead I refused to vote on Cubu, and I didn't know what to think on the Drazak situation. That is why I didn't post with 45 minutes remaining day 1. I didn't think i could say anything that would make a difference when Lynch time was so close."
First off the phrase: "I could have easily gone after drazak or Cubu Day 1" looks like a potential scumslip. And the reason he said he didnt post was because he couldn't think of anything useful to say. Possible, but town players are interested in helping town. Looks more like he didn't care about who was lynched.
Then after the rethos debacle he comes in with this insightful post:
On September 22 2012 03:15 RemedySC wrote:
Also this was rethos's first game ever.
Before playing mafia, he would be excited to try it out. Maybe he couldn't get into though.
Hard to believe that's all he would say about the issue if he really cared.
Other people have said other stuff but those are my main reasons.
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Thoughts on stutters, re-reading through his filter:
Obviously, from my perspective this post:
+ Show Spoiler +On September 20 2012 04:37 Stutters695 wrote:
Killing or any other lurker is a better lynch than Sharrant at this point for two main reasons (IMO):
1) Sharrant is active. If he is scum it will reveal itself over time, while if we go into lategame with a bunch of lurkers we're boned in lylo.
2)You guys are painting the SK idea as way too scummy imo. Look at Kush's early posts. Self-survival is usually indicative of a power-role or scum. If he's a blue he wouldn't have so obviously painted a target on himself. If he's scum it seems to reason he wouldn't paint such a big target on himself. Given the option between SK and VT, SK makes a hell of a lot more sense.
I don't necessarily agree with that conclusion but it makes sense and he's putting himself out there on that read and gives us even more of substance to hold him accountable for.
Looking at the lurkers:
Drazak: Would like to see some more from him before the lynch. Nowhere near the least active and he has at least thrown out questions. Wouldn't be our best lynch target imo.
KillingTime has been actively lurking. He has 11 posts during D1. He has only one post with any real content. This is similar to his town play in XXVI but his reads in this have all been agreeing with other people while in XXVI his reads were more based on his observations.
Really I'd like to see a lynch on Cubu.
Regardless of if Cubu is scum or town, Cubu needs to die. For anyone who didn't play in NMMXXVI check his filter there (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363923&user=153930). 9 posts before he was lynched on day 2. We let him live Day 1 with the hopes his play would improve and it didn't as VT. After we wasted a lynch on him D2 we put ourselves in mylo. We shouldn't let that happen again when we can easily avoid it. Our day 2 lynch candidate will be a much stronger one than our D1 if we're lynching someone active and Cubu has shown no intentions of actually playing.
##Vote Cubu
looks scummy as everyone he mentions is pretty much confirmed town to me. But it is not decisive because that is pretty bold for mafia who normally push each other at least alittle bit from what I have seen. So this could be unlucky town play.
Mason stuff - meh that was indeed a trainwreck - although the one time he was actually active was killing drazak. Since then lurky lurky lurky. (scum as anything, he has an excuse but no-one can take anything from that - it could be true and he could still be scum)
Overall I think remedy is marginally more scummy than stutters just because I see more scum motivation in his actions. Everyone knows lurking looks bad, doing the remedy "I am here but not scumhunting much" thing looks worse to me. If we do give Dandel one more day then I would prefer a Remedy lynch I think.
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here's where I am right now.
I'm not totally into the stutters lynch.
he had the same exact afk pattern last game, so the more I remember last game, the more his lurkeryness looks like a null read.
what does make me want to vote for stutters is thrawn's point about at least 1 scum being on the drazak lynch bandwagon...I checked on all the games I played and sure enough it's true. so is you believe that theory, a lynch on stutters would be quite valuable even if he flips town.
that having been said, I think there is a good chance he will flip town. simply because the case against him directly is mostly about his ask timings, and that is a pretty null read for me considering his meta.
the cases thrawn and killing just made against remedy actually do look quite strong. "i could have easily gone for cubu or drazak". I missed that when reading his filter but it does.sound like a scumslip.
it sounds like he is saying going for me supports his innocence because wasn't a bandwagon. but town doesn't pick who they are going to accuse by how it males.them look.
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ebwop
the case.against stutters is.mostly about his afk timings
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edwop
town doesn't pick who they accuse.by how it's going to make them look
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##Vote: RemedySC
If not him then stutters for lurker policy, his suspicious posts where he stops lurking when people accuse him of it, and for my process of elimination theory a few pages back.
vote count?
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unbiased list of current bandwagons:
remedy, stutters, dandel
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I didn't pick who I accused based on how it makes me look, I picked you because you were the one I was focusing on. I didn't want to let up on you until I could think that you are either town or mafia. At that time I was almost 100% certain that you were scum. Recently my opinion on that has changed, and you are looking a lot more like town.
What I was saying with that cubu vs drazak post is that if I were mafia, wouldn't I have taken the opportunity to go after one of them. I had no reason to believe Cubu was mafia, and with Drazak I thought it could go either way.
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Vote count!
Dandel Ion (5) - KillingTime, thrawn2112, JacobStrangelove, debears, Sharrant, Sharky246
Stutters695 (3) - kushm4sta, Sharrant, kushm4sta, Dandel Ion, RemedySC
RemedySC (1) - thrawn2112
JacobStrangelove (0) - kushm4sta
debears (0) - Dandel Ion
Currently Dandel Ion is set to be lynched with 5 votes. Deadline in just over 10 hours.
Stutters695, Atreides have yet to vote.
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last game stutters did the same thing.. returning from afk to defend himself then going back into afk.
##unvote
vote remedysc
boldifying is really hard on the phone so I hope you guys appreciate the effort that took.
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fuck me I did it wrong
##vote remedysc
I will.move.back to stutters if I have to to save dandel
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##unvote
Consider me convinced for now. I still think you're scummy, but you get a pass until tomorrow. You seemed honestly exasperated, I don't see the harm in keeping you around at least for another day while we go after someone with more of a filter.
I'm hesitant to place a vote on Remedy or Stutters just yet. It seems a little odd that Killing dissapeared off the radar a second time though. But I do agree that Remedy or Stutters seem like the better votes at this point.
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Ok:
##unvote
##vote RemedySC
Not only for the reasons above, but also because your defence has been really bad:
I picked you because you were the one I was focusing on. I didn't want to let up on you until I could think that you are either town or mafia. At that time I was almost 100% certain that you were scum. Recently my opinion on that has changed, and you are looking a lot more like town. - why, you have not mentioned this change of heart before, and how does voting someone and then making no effort to get others to vote for them, dropping the issue d2 & being absent from the lynch court as "not letting up" on a player you thought was "almost 100% scum"?
What I was saying with that cubu vs drazak post is that if I were mafia, wouldn't I have taken the opportunity to go after one of them. I had no reason to believe Cubu was mafia, and with Drazak I thought it could go either way.
Why, if you saw the thread developing - it was clear that either me, cubu, drazak, debears or sharrant was getting lynched. Only debears is not essentially confirmed town to me at this point - you knew you were going to get a mislynch so you didn't need to. If you were town you would have atleast tried to register your objection as you said you were reading the thread.
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EPT
