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Dandel Ion
Profile Joined November 2010
Austria17960 Posts
August 10 2012 20:49 GMT
#681
UNofficial Votecount:
yet to vote: Kronen, ShadySands

mkfuba(1): YourHarry
lvdr(4): Axero, Sideni, mkfuba, iamperfection
Sideni(4): Promethelax, lvdr, goodkarma, Dandel Ion
Axero(4): Hapahauli

with 12 people, it should take 7 to lynch, but it says 6 in the day1 post? So we could in theory lynch 2?
A backwards poet writes inverse.
Sideni
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada79 Posts
August 10 2012 20:49 GMT
#682
On August 11 2012 05:35 goodkarma wrote:
He's like: "Hmmm. I guess you're right. What I'm doing doesn't make sense. Instead of clearly explaining my motives let me fix that." I am not convinced there weren't other reasons for him voting Dandel Ion over Lvdr. He should have come out and say what they were before switching his vote.

This feels like a move that was made to take suspicion away from himself by making his voting pattern more consistent with his arguments. His quickness to flip his vote when called out for inconsistency of action feels scummy to me.
+ Show Spoiler +

Combined with the points of my prior case against him, which are spoilered below, he is my scummiest read right now, and has earned my vote.:

##Vote: Sideni

My earlier case against him (and Axero too):

+ Show Spoiler +
On August 10 2012 13:56 goodkarma wrote:
I have read through everyone's filters, and have a few case points on who I see as most scummy right now:

Sideni:

One scum-read I currently have on him is mistaking the name of the person who was getting married (Kronen). This was mentioned before, but I feel it is an important point. If you're struggling to read and write in English to the point of scrutinizing every word, how can you make this kind of mistake of names? This fits the profile of an unconcerned scum combing the thread before posting. It may not seem big, but in my last game (NMM XXII) the last scum we caught made this same mistake.

I believe it's been said before, and I too agree that his posts are a bit fluffy. Especially considering that if writing every English word is meticulous, I would expect his posts to generally be very concise and succinct. Instead, we've seen posts like this one:

Show nested quote +
On August 10 2012 08:28 Sideni wrote:
On August 10 2012 07:40 Dandel Ion wrote:
If you're (vanilla) town, why would you be concerned with being second on a case?

Is my mentality just wrong here?


Well, I either answer to his post saying that I don't even care defending myself or I explain myself (just as I did) or I just don't answer...

What is the smartest choice in your opinion ? I would gladly sacrifice myself to turn green to reveal that he's suspicious. However, I don't think it's smart
If I just say that I don't care, it just feels to me that I don't pay attention to all details =/
If I don't answer, I'm being a lurker and this is bad for my party ! Gotta keep talking and if the talking can lead to something, then it's perfect ! :D
So, last choice, I decided to explain myself. There's nothing wrong about explaining yourself ever !


On August 10 2012 07:59 Lvdr wrote:
How does changing the order in any way change whether there was a scum tell or not? Whether I happened to say town or mafia first I think the suspicion would have been similar. Therefore, Sideni's addition reads as quite fluffy to me.


Oh, I thought it was obvious, so I guess I skipped on that point ... =/
Well, first, if you only say "Both Hapa and YH are mafia ?" you look like a real town player (you care for the right thing).
To illustrate myself, I'll have to use an example.

Let's say you have oranges and grapefruits in a bag and you can't see them.
Now, let's say you want an orange. You'll put your hand on one, you'll take it out (closing your eyes) and you'll ask the guy holding the bag : "Is this an orange ?"
because that's the orange you want

However, you asked : "Is this an orange or a grapefruit ?"
Someone wouldn't talk about the grapefruit at all...

Now, let's reverse the words : "Is this a grapefruit or an orange ?"
First, you would never ask about the grapefruit at all !

Hmmm nevermind, I don't have to keep going on my explanation, I just realized how dumb my logic was xD
I'm sorry to everybody for the confusion xD

Well, at least, the fact that you wouldn't usually ask for town is still right !


Two things about this post: the first is I have no idea why a orange or grapefruit metaphor was necessary, or even helpful. The only thing it serves to do, in my opinion, is distract from the rest of the post with a bit of fluff (a bit ironic for a post defending against making fluffy posts). Perhaps Sideni indeed does struggle with the English language, but some of his fluffy posts have indicated to me that it could plausibly be a scum-motivated excuse. The second thing:

"Hmmm nevermind, I don't have to keep going on my explanation, I just realized how dumb my logic was xD
I'm sorry to everybody for the confusion xD"

There is no town-motivated reason whatsoever for making this statement. It's basically saying, "I don't know what I'm doing. Don't listen to me." This statement feels very scum-motivated, as it's a great statement to make if you're trying to keep your head low.

Another quote that gives me a scum read on Sideni:

Show nested quote +
On August 10 2012 08:41 Sideni wrote:
On August 10 2012 08:36 Dandel Ion wrote:
I think you misunderstood a little... I'm saying you shouldn't hold back anything just because you're concerned how it'd reflect on you.


Taking note of that !
I just don't want a mislynch for town xD


It feels like he's trying a little too hard here to show he's pro-town. Why does something this obvious need to be said? This quote feels scum-motivated to me.

For the reasons I've mentioned above:

##FoS: Sideni

Axero:
Axero's mentioned on more than one occasion that this is his first game. Describing noobiness is a common scum trait, as it allows them to discredit themselves and have people not take them as seriously, or read as much into their cases for mislynches as they should be. He then goes on to describe how he plans to post without reading the thread.:

Show nested quote +
On August 10 2012 09:56 Axero wrote:
On August 10 2012 09:47 Hapahauli wrote:
On August 10 2012 09:44 Axero wrote:
Since the game started and I didn't know I'd be in it I had previous plans. I've been checking the thread and still trying to feel people out, but since nothing really had anything to do with me personally, I haven't replied. (Not the best play, but again, first game )


So let me get this straight - your strategy going in to this game was to lurk until your name was mentioned, then FOS the guy who called you out for lurking?

As for your first criticism, those two statements I made were my response to YH, not actual suspicions against you, kind of just possibilities. But yes, at this point, it is my gut reaction to your actions.

In the middle of a game of DotA atm, so I'm sure this didn't answer everything you wanted. I'll respond in a bit.


Well hearing your "strategy" - you better have some damn good explanations for your play so far.


Haha, no I wasn't planning on lurking. I was actually going to go ahead with my plans without checking the forum at all, but someone coaching me suggested i still check.


You should never post without reading first. This is strongly anti-town play. Combined with your semi-lurky behavior, you're looking scummy to me.:

##FoS: Axero



Axero:

Axero's most recent actions have not gone unnoticed by me. Unfortunately, I have seen really bad townie lurkers before + Show Spoiler +
(I know he's posted a lot of one-liners today, but until he contributes his first post of substance I consider him a lurker)
, and I haven't seen enough evidence yet to say that he doesn't fit this profile. I will keep a close eye on his filter, but right now Sideni looks scummier to me. I do have a couple things to add though.:

First, his mistaking of names for Kronen's wedding. I still believe that mistaking names is a scum tell, as I have explained before in my case against Sideni.
+ Show Spoiler +

Second, posting nonsense filler like this:

On August 11 2012 01:46 Axero wrote:
EBWOP:

Spooning required, clothes optional.


This is spam. It adds no content to the thread and drowns out valid arguments which are critical for us to see so close to the voting deadline.

Axero is definitely looking scummier than he did before. But I'm not ready to rule out his actions as being those of a bad townie yet.


First of all, the thing is that my case all relied on Mkfuba's case. So, if Lvdr is scum, then, my case makes sense, but if he's not, my case is bad. I am just too sure that Lvdr is mafia, that I made a whole case on Dandel Ion ...
Now, because I was that sure, I prefered to vote for Dandel Ion ...
I know you don't give a lot of credits for that explanation.
However, remember that, even if I'm town, I'm still a human that may have some incoherence in its mind !
I just felt like Hapahauli was right, so why wouldn't I change my vote if my mind changed ?!
Like I did with Mkfuba's case, I agreed with him. Hell, I even tried to explain why I agreed and Dandel got on me telling me that I wasn't making much sense !!! I agree because they are right, that's all !

About Kronen's marriage, I already made my apologies... I was just so sure that it was Hapahauli ! Again, I'm a human and I believe in myself, so I don't have to always double check what I'm saying ! Plus, I was just refering to it as an example when I was saying that Dandel Ion forgot about my work schedule (he said I was lurking when, in fact, I was just working ...)
May the force be with you
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
August 10 2012 20:51 GMT
#683
The two prominant cases at the moment are Lvdr and Sideni, and I'll make my final thoughts known on both candidates before I cast my vote. They are both bad-townie reads to me, but it seems the only option to me to chose one and avoid a town no-lynch at all costs.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Dandel Ion
Profile Joined November 2010
Austria17960 Posts
August 10 2012 20:53 GMT
#684
Alright I thought about it.
I think this is how I want to proceed:

We lynch lvdr.

He flips town, we lynch Sideni day 2 and probably mkfuba on day 3
He flips scum, you guys probably lynch me day 2

I'm pretty sure we get at least 1 scum with that.

I won't lie, I'd like to have Sideni out of the game as fast as I can, but we all make our sacrifices....
A backwards poet writes inverse.
Lvdr
Profile Joined August 2012
United States418 Posts
August 10 2012 20:53 GMT
#685
On August 11 2012 05:42 Promethelax wrote:
Does anyone have the votecount in their notes? I don't and don't want to go back through the thread to see where we stand if I can use that time for something useful. Like re reading Axero's posts and hitting myself in the face with a brick.


I've been lurking here thinking the same thing lol.

My vote remains on Sideni, but I'd like to throw some ideas about mkfuba out there.

First, my drunkposts painted a huge target all over me. mkfuba took that opportunity to actually write a case on me, the easiest target at the time. Reminds me of shady sands going after synyster in d 0.5.

Second, the lurkiness. He made his case and had a back-and-forth with YH. Since then he has been completely MIA.

My read is still null. His case was plausible enough at the time and he finishes with this:

As such, I accept full responsibility if a bandwagon forms on Lvdr, as at this time I firmly believe he is scum.


Doesn't seem like a scum play.
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9645 Posts
August 10 2012 20:54 GMT
#686
Vote count

Mkfuba07
1. yourharry Yourharry

LVDR
4.mkfuba07,iamperfection, Axero, Sideni

Sideni
4.Lvdr , dandel ion, promthelax, good karma

Dandel Ion
0. Sideni

Axero
0.Hapa refresh ftw
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9645 Posts
August 10 2012 20:54 GMT
#687
someone check me plz i think im right
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
Dandel Ion
Profile Joined November 2010
Austria17960 Posts
August 10 2012 20:54 GMT
#688
EBWOP: Screwed up the votecount, the number in the bracket for Axero should be (1)
A backwards poet writes inverse.
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9645 Posts
August 10 2012 20:55 GMT
#689
oh there we go i think were right dandel ion
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9645 Posts
August 10 2012 20:56 GMT
#690
escept hapa just unvoted
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
Dandel Ion
Profile Joined November 2010
Austria17960 Posts
August 10 2012 20:56 GMT
#691
On August 11 2012 05:55 iamperfection wrote:
oh there we go i think were right dandel ion

Meh I post it, Hapahauli unvotes.
Yours is the current
A backwards poet writes inverse.
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9645 Posts
August 10 2012 20:56 GMT
#692
ebowp except
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
August 10 2012 20:57 GMT
#693
On August 11 2012 05:56 Dandel Ion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2012 05:55 iamperfection wrote:
oh there we go i think were right dandel ion

Meh I post it, Hapahauli unvotes.
Yours is the current


Yeah sorry for the snipe timing =P
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9645 Posts
August 10 2012 20:57 GMT
#694
On August 11 2012 05:49 Dandel Ion wrote:


with 12 people, it should take 7 to lynch, but it says 6 in the day1 post? So we could in theory lynch 2?

I think the person that gets to 6 first would be lynched
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
Lvdr
Profile Joined August 2012
United States418 Posts
August 10 2012 20:59 GMT
#695
On August 11 2012 05:53 Dandel Ion wrote:
Alright I thought about it.
I think this is how I want to proceed:

We lynch lvdr.

He flips town, we lynch Sideni day 2 and probably mkfuba on day 3
He flips scum, you guys probably lynch me day 2

I'm pretty sure we get at least 1 scum with that.

I won't lie, I'd like to have Sideni out of the game as fast as I can, but we all make our sacrifices....


I don't think anyone read this post...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874&currentpage=28#552

With that in evidence what is the case against me?

Sideni
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada79 Posts
August 10 2012 21:01 GMT
#696
On August 11 2012 05:53 Dandel Ion wrote:
Alright I thought about it.
I think this is how I want to proceed:

We lynch lvdr.


He flips town, we lynch Sideni day 2 and probably mkfuba on day 3
He flips scum, you guys probably lynch me day 2

I'm pretty sure we get at least 1 scum with that.

I won't lie, I'd like to have Sideni out of the game as fast as I can, but we all make our sacrifices....


Alright, I'm confused ...
I feel like I've been wrong the whole day even if I feel like being in iamperfection's shoes in day 0.5 ... (remember he was on YH's case and YH turned out to be mafia even if iamperfection was the most suspicious of all)
The fact that you propose to lynch Lvdr first makes me really confused =/
I don't know if you planned that answer from me, but I feel like my case doesn't stand anymore since you want Lvdr to go down first ... If he turns out to be mafia, you know that you die on Day 2.

##unvote Lvdr
##FOS Lvdr
##unFOS Dandel Ion
May the force be with you
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
August 10 2012 21:02 GMT
#697
So sorry for being AFK, but my flight got delayed.

Haven't seen any good arguments to the contrary, so:

## Vote Lvdr
Что?
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
August 10 2012 21:04 GMT
#698
On August 11 2012 06:01 Sideni wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2012 05:53 Dandel Ion wrote:
Alright I thought about it.
I think this is how I want to proceed:

We lynch lvdr.


He flips town, we lynch Sideni day 2 and probably mkfuba on day 3
He flips scum, you guys probably lynch me day 2

I'm pretty sure we get at least 1 scum with that.

I won't lie, I'd like to have Sideni out of the game as fast as I can, but we all make our sacrifices....


Alright, I'm confused ...
I feel like I've been wrong the whole day even if I feel like being in iamperfection's shoes in day 0.5 ... (remember he was on YH's case and YH turned out to be mafia even if iamperfection was the most suspicious of all)
The fact that you propose to lynch Lvdr first makes me really confused =/
I don't know if you planned that answer from me, but I feel like my case doesn't stand anymore since you want Lvdr to go down first ... If he turns out to be mafia, you know that you die on Day 2.

##unvote Lvdr
##FOS Lvdr
##unFOS Dandel Ion


So who are you suspicious of now? It is getting close to deadline, we need to make sure we lynch.

Thanks Imperfection and Dandel for the counts.
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
Lvdr
Profile Joined August 2012
United States418 Posts
August 10 2012 21:04 GMT
#699
@Dandel Please explain how my flip would give you so much information? It is still entirely possible that Sideni is just a bad and mkfuba had something come up. If that is true than thats gg mafia right there (3lynch+3nk=6 town down)

If I flip scum why would you be the lynch target? You are pushing the case on me, and D1 busing can't be common.
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
August 10 2012 21:04 GMT
#700
On August 11 2012 06:02 Shady Sands wrote:
So sorry for being AFK, but my flight got delayed.

Haven't seen any good arguments to the contrary, so:

## Vote Lvdr


Thanks for showing up. Is that seriously all you have to add?
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
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