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On May 30 2011 23:47 SimonB wrote:
I don't care about the Bonjwa title if Savior defined it. Flash has already completely obliterated Savior's career accomplishments in every way. He, along with Nada, Oov, and Jaedong are well ahead of Savior at this point.
If Savior is Bonjwa, they're beyond, and significantly so.
Ma Bonjwa dominated the later called bonjwas aswell, and at that time pros had alot more rivalry, it wasnt just JD and flash on the top, no one knows how flash/JD would have done at that time where things on SC were still being discovered...
sAviOr created a style, an era, the one that taught and revolutionized raising the gamestyle of the zerg race to the top.
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On May 30 2011 23:56 Antoine wrote:
i am the decisionator.
Ahhh you beat me to it!
Anyway, guys what the OP is asking for is NOT who is bonjwa but who determines who is bonjwa.
I dunno about that, but I know who determines who is DONGJWA! \m/
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On May 31 2011 00:25 GG.NoRe wrote:Ahhh you beat me to it! Anyway, guys what the OP is asking for is NOT who is bonjwa but who determines who is bonjwa. I dunno about that, but I know who determines who is DONGJWA! \m/
I'm afraid there's a new Dong in town, and his name is Shin Dong Won.
+ Show Spoiler +
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Russian Federation327 Posts
Savior definitely did way more than Flash. You may say Savior had less titles, but he was consistently unbeatable on the most ridiculous of maps.
Oh, cmon, don't start this ridiculous "map imba" whining.
Flash is fairly accomplished player. Or do you think he never won on unfavored maps? and hit 75% win-rate playing odd eye only?
Statistically Flash is way ahead of any other scbw player.
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what do you mean, whining? its totally legit, those maps were terrible for zergs, much more terrible than the ones flash won the majority of his tournaments on
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A bonjwa is anyone who has more than three titles, who has been #1 in kespa more than a year and who's name doesn't start with Jae. That's obvious.
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On May 31 2011 00:44 Yodo wrote:Show nested quote +Savior definitely did way more than Flash. You may say Savior had less titles, but he was consistently unbeatable on the most ridiculous of maps. Oh, cmon, don't start this ridiculous "map imba" whining. Flash is fairly accomplished player. Or do you think he never won on unfavored maps? and hit 75% win-rate playing odd eye only? Statistically Flash is way ahead of any other scbw player.
Longinus II
TvZ: 80-55 (59.3%) [ Games ]
ZvP: 40-35 (53.3%) [ Games ]
PvT: 51-35 (59.3%) [ Games ]
Longinus
TvZ: 30-14 (68.2%) [ Games ]
ZvP: 21-19 (52.5%) [ Games ]
PvT: 23-18 (56.1%) [ Games ]
These two maps were made to make ZvP more balanced. Problem was, TvZ became Zerg's grave. However, Savior won many, if not most of his TvZs on Longinus so they made Longinus II to nerf Savior. That never happened too; many Zergs were destroyed on this map.
Few other examples include Reverse Temple, and few other maps from that time.
MSL made maps to KILL Zerg overall, especially Savior after he started dominating (remember: MSL had (I think) 5 straight Zerg champions).
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On May 31 2011 00:56 Elroi wrote:
A bonjwa is anyone who has more than three titles, who has been #1 in kespa more than a year and who's name doesn't start with Jae. That's obvious.
LOL i know exactly what you mean. Jaedong is beyond all them. He is DONGJWA!
On May 31 2011 01:07 supernovamaniac wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 31 2011 00:44 Yodo wrote:Show nested quote +Savior definitely did way more than Flash. You may say Savior had less titles, but he was consistently unbeatable on the most ridiculous of maps. Oh, cmon, don't start this ridiculous "map imba" whining. Flash is fairly accomplished player. Or do you think he never won on unfavored maps? and hit 75% win-rate playing odd eye only? Statistically Flash is way ahead of any other scbw player. Longinus II TvZ: 80-55 (59.3%) [ Games ] ZvP: 40-35 (53.3%) [ Games ] PvT: 51-35 (59.3%) [ Games ] Longinus TvZ: 30-14 (68.2%) [ Games ] ZvP: 21-19 (52.5%) [ Games ] PvT: 23-18 (56.1%) [ Games ] These two maps were made to make ZvP more balanced. Problem was, TvZ became Zerg's grave. However, Savior won many, if not most of his TvZs on Longinus so they made Longinus II to nerf Savior. That never happened too; many Zergs were destroyed on this map. Few other examples include Reverse Temple, and few other maps from that time. MSL made maps to KILL Zerg overall, especially Savior after he started dominating (remember: MSL had (I think) 5 straight Zerg champions).
So thats why JD is having difficulties getting his golden badge. hhmmnnnnnn...
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What is DONGJWA?
Let's ask the most established credible dictionary:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/isFkP.jpg)
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Russian Federation327 Posts
its totally legit, those maps were terrible for zergs
You miss the point. ALL players sooner or later play on unfavored maps. And all good players are able to overcome maps. Nothing new here.
So, yes, it is whining, because it is attempt to bring "map imba" argument as the most decisive factor in the game.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51084 Posts
On May 31 2011 01:22 GG.NoRe wrote:What is DONGJWA? Let's ask the most established credible dictionary:
Hahaha!
But isn't this irrelevant to the discussion?
A bonjwa is truly someone who showed dominance over a certain period of time.
Although Flash has shown said dominance(hence claiming the title Bonjwa)he has never dominated like Savior.
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On May 31 2011 01:22 GG.NoRe wrote:What is DONGJWA? Let's ask the most established credible dictionary: + Show Spoiler +
We get it, you are the biggest living jaedong fan in the world. Every time I look at a thread in the BW section lately, you are on there rambling about jaedong off topic in some form, or making new threads to worship him. That's fine and all, but god damn. Calm down. Going a little overboard with it.
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On May 30 2011 20:37 mizU wrote:
Edit: Liquipedia defines Flash as a bonjwa, but how'd they get that?
They arbitrarily decided it.
It's a joke and disgusting that Flash is "bonjwa" while Jaedong isn't, despite equal or better performance for a longer period.
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On May 31 2011 01:36 Gooey wrote:We get it, you are the biggest living jaedong fan in the world. Every time I look at a thread in the BW section lately, you are on there rambling about jaedong off topic in some form, or making new threads to worship him. That's fine and all, but god damn. Calm down. Going a little overboard with it.
LOL Thanks for saying what we are all thinking...
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On May 31 2011 01:26 Yodo wrote:You miss the point. ALL players sooner or later play on unfavored maps. And all good players are able to overcome maps. Nothing new here. So, yes, it is whining, because it is attempt to bring "map imba" argument as the most decisive factor in the game.
You're also missing the point. Savior managed to consistently overcome bad maps, while Flash did not. Flash's streak had its fair share of terran-favored maps.
In this case, map imba is a completely reasonable discussion. Savior overcame impossible maps, while Flash simply said how impossible they were.
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On May 31 2011 01:36 Gooey wrote:We get it, you are the biggest living jaedong fan in the world. Every time I look at a thread in the BW section lately, you are on there rambling about jaedong off topic in some form, or making new threads to worship him. That's fine and all, but god damn. Calm down. Going a little overboard with it.
Those were all LR threads where JD was relevant and specific JAEDONG threads btw. Cite one thread where I wrote about JD off topic and I'll give you a pass for 2 to the ABC MSL Finals. I'll even pay for your ticket to Korea. Heck bring your entire family and dogs.
Cite it now, or admit you are merely promoting unfounded ignorance.
There can never be too much Love. Hate, on the other hand.....
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On May 31 2011 01:38 4vvhiplash7 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2011 01:36 Gooey wrote:On May 31 2011 01:22 GG.NoRe wrote:What is DONGJWA? Let's ask the most established credible dictionary: + Show Spoiler + We get it, you are the biggest living jaedong fan in the world. Every time I look at a thread in the BW section lately, you are on there rambling about jaedong off topic in some form, or making new threads to worship him. That's fine and all, but god damn. Calm down. Going a little overboard with it. LOL Thanks for saying what we are all thinking...
LOL. Check the LR threads as well. For every 1 KT fan that bags on GG.NoRe, 10 more proclaim dongling love for him. I really don't understand why people have to hate on a user who only means well.
GG.NoRe, lol you're so magnetic. hahaha
OT, only Savior is Bonjwa. And yes, he did so on maps he were supposed to lose
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On May 30 2011 23:58 Legatus Lanius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 23:47 SimonB wrote:
I don't care about the Bonjwa title if Savior defined it. Flash has already completely obliterated Savior's career accomplishments in every way. He, along with Nada, Oov, and Jaedong are well ahead of Savior at this point.
If Savior is Bonjwa, they're beyond, and significantly so. savior won consistent titles at a time when zerg werent doing so great, and he did it against top class zerg killers on very hard zerg maps. alot of what happens in zerg play nowadays came from savior flash is an awesome player, but please dont shit on the greatness that was savior because hes done alot of impressive things, and he will always be the only bonjwa for me
.... How can he be the only bonjwa... Nada DESTROYED back in his day.
savior won consistent titles at a time when zerg werent doing so great, and he did it against top class zerg killers
Flash won consistent titles at a time and he did it against top class terran killers.
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Russian Federation905 Posts
On May 31 2011 01:36 Gooey wrote:We get it, you are the biggest living jaedong fan in the world. Every time I look at a thread in the BW section lately, you are on there rambling about jaedong off topic in some form, or making new threads to worship him. That's fine and all, but god damn. Calm down. Going a little overboard with it.
Oh no, here we go again. Why do some people love to derail discussions.
On May 31 2011 01:48 ibreakurface wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 30 2011 23:58 Legatus Lanius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 23:47 SimonB wrote:
I don't care about the Bonjwa title if Savior defined it. Flash has already completely obliterated Savior's career accomplishments in every way. He, along with Nada, Oov, and Jaedong are well ahead of Savior at this point.
If Savior is Bonjwa, they're beyond, and significantly so. savior won consistent titles at a time when zerg werent doing so great, and he did it against top class zerg killers on very hard zerg maps. alot of what happens in zerg play nowadays came from savior flash is an awesome player, but please dont shit on the greatness that was savior because hes done alot of impressive things, and he will always be the only bonjwa for me .... How can he be the only bonjwa... Nada DESTROYED back in his day.
savior won consistent titles at a time when zerg werent doing so great, and he did it against top class zerg killers
Flash won consistent titles at a time and he did it against top class terran killers.
Who are these so called terran killers? Ssak? Classic? Like the ID btw
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Russian Federation327 Posts
Savior overcame impossible maps, while Flash simply said how impossible they were.
Wrongo =) Savior complains about maps too (ofc nobody can be compared with Bisu regarding this skill) and yes, Flash wins on unfavored maps a lot of times. Calm down man, we all know how you displeased with Flash existence, no need to push it so hard.
Just remember "map imba" argument - is always whining.
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EPT
