[October] TLPD Race Winrate Graphs - Page 29

On November 08 2011 17:05 Holophonist wrote:

You didn't actually say anything at all.... you sound like an idiot to be honest.

Nydus isn't and won't ever be good with things the way they are now. And you do see people trying it.

As for your last paragraph... it seriously does anger me when people are completely incapable of understanding BASIC ideas, no matter how many times I try to hand feed it to you people like you're fucking babies. I'm not saying any professional starcraft player (protoss or not) is more or less creative than any other person on the planet.

What I'm saying is if you spend your time doing one thing, you're not doing another, RIGHT? So you're necessarily going to be worse at things other than predetermined timing attacks if you primarily rely on on them to win most of your games(or at least more than other races. Or at least more than zerg), RIGHT? Seriously, this shouldn't be hard.

On November 08 2011 20:02 zanmat0 wrote:


I'm the one who didn't say anything at all and I'm the idiot?

Oh, the irony. Take a step back and re-read your substanceless post. You have no arguments, no proof, you're simply spewing some unrelated nonsense that is somehow logical in your simpleton mind. In fact, I hope you were inebrieated when you wrote that because it makes so little sense.

Whatever you were trying to say, you failed. I'd encourage you to give it another attempt but you seem pretty hopeless.

On November 08 2011 20:09 SeaSwift wrote:


I wouldn't bother replying. Look at his post history: it is a combination of guileless trolling and random insults. You will only feed the troll by responding.

On November 08 2011 20:12 zanmat0 wrote:

Glad to see you read our respective posts and are participating in the discussion constructively. Thank you for your valuable input.

On November 08 2011 20:20 SeaSwift wrote:


...I was talking TO you, telling YOU not to respond to Holophonist, who is not worth the effort. If you thought it was the other way round you, sorry, it was not meant to read like that.

And yes, I read your respective posts, and participated in the discussion a few pages back before I realised too that Holophonist was not worth responding to. He is now saying exactly the same crap he was then, too. Lots of words with very little meaning behind them backed up by lots of ad hominem attacks.

On November 08 2011 16:44 Chise wrote:


Actually Ive always wondered if this is true.
Before the KA nerf (removal) was announced Ive never even once seen someone call KA imbalanced. People were complaining about Protoss lategame, but I cant remember people complaining about KA specifically.
As soon as blizzard announced that they are going to remove KA people suddenly were like "uh yeah, I guess KA is imbalanced".

About the graphs:
What bothers me is that, besides june 2011, Terran had the highest winrate every single month. And even in june Zergs winrate was only higher by 0,1%. Obviously, in some months Terran was pretty close to 50%, but Terran is the only race that has never been below 50% and has basically had the highest winrate for a year.
If we think about it, even though Terran was rarely buffed and instead constantly nerfed Terran remains the highest winrate.
This might change drastically as soon as HOTS is released though, as new units will most likely change the game quite a bit.

On November 08 2011 22:04 Mehukannu wrote:
Hell, there was only one protoss pro gamer I knew who used HT instead of colossus which was mana. So the whole instant warp-in storm HT strategies didn't get any chance to evolve either, before blizzard cut the amulet off.

On November 08 2011 23:18 SeaSwift wrote:


Given that White-Ra was using HT+Warp Prism drops when SC2 was first released, I don't think the whole "Protoss players just weren't innovative" argument holds any more water here than it does elsewhere.

On November 08 2011 23:36 Mehukannu wrote:

Your argument doesn't even make sense since I didn't even say that protoss players are not innovative which I don't think is not even true at all. -_-
I am sure you remember all the talk back then about colossus being imba and people having the mentality to not to use HT because colossus was considered to be better choice all around. Also I didn't get to watch that much White-Ra's games either back then so I wouldn't know how he played, but that is why I said mana was the only protoss player I knew who used HT, because I didn't know there were others.

On November 08 2011 23:45 SeaSwift wrote:


Sorry if it seemed aggressive: you seemed to be claiming that KA was horrifically imba, but players never used HTs and never innovated (you use the word "evolve", which to all intents and purposes means the same) so we never found out that it was imba. I was countering your claim by giving an example of a player who frequently used HTs and innovated tremendously.

There was a lot of talk about Colossus imba, but because of that Blizzard's mindset is even harder to comprehend. Colossus imba ---> nerf HT but not Colossus? Even apart from the obvious flaws at the time in play for people to consider Colossus imba, the logic here just doesn't make sense at all.

Also, the Korean scene wasn't very large then nor open to Westerners, so even when players like MC used HTs a lot, no foreigners heard about it at the time.

On November 09 2011 00:10 Mehukannu wrote:
Well, my point kinda was we won't ever find out if it was truly imba or not, since there weren't many pro players even using it to begin with.
Yeah, the KA nerf did get a some weird looks from the community when people were expecting the colossus getting a nerf rather than the HT. I still remember people saying that they will continue to go colossus since HT is really bad now and what not.

On November 09 2011 00:10 Mehukannu wrote:
Blizzard's mindset seems to be really weird at times, like in HotS they might remove carrier because not many people seem to use it at all, even though the most restricting thing about the unit is the god awfully long build time and not only that, they are taking the hard counter to terran mech too which they are trying to make more viable by adding the warhound and the battle hellion. Or how about the patch they slightly buffed mothership, but couldn't buff carriers because there was some weird choice they had to make or something. So pretty much that isn't the only time when blizzard has made some weird choices.

On November 09 2011 00:10 Mehukannu wrote:

Well, my point kinda was we won't ever find out if it was truly imba or not, since there weren't many pro players even using it to begin with.
Yeah, the KA nerf did get a some weird looks from the community when people were expecting the colossus getting a nerf rather than the HT. I still remember people saying that they will continue to go colossus since HT is really bad now and what not.
Blizzard's mindset seems to be really weird at times, like in HotS they might remove carrier because not many people seem to use it at all, even though the most restricting thing about the unit is the god awfully long build time and not only that, they are taking the hard counter to terran mech too which they are trying to make more viable by adding the warhound and the battle hellion. Or how about the patch they slightly buffed mothership, but couldn't buff carriers because there was some weird choice they had to make or something. So pretty much that isn't the only time when blizzard has made some weird choices.

On November 09 2011 00:21 poorcloud wrote:

Before the KA nerf, Sanzenith was abusing the templars to the max. You should check some of the LR threads of the GSL back then, especially sanzenith vs scfou. So many people were shitting on San because he would lose every single engagement, but would just warp in storm and defend + harass till he ultimately won the game lol. Almost every game of that series went like that and there was non-stop whine about the KA + new threads being created about it i believe.

On November 09 2011 00:25 SeaSwift wrote:


Blizzard's response to that was very different to the response to Colossus, however.

For Colossus, Blizzard went "use the counter, Vikings"
For HT, Blizzard went "wow, Warp-in storms is OP, no need to use Ghosts, we'll completely remove the upgrade from the game"

That's what's strange - how inconsistent they have been.