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On August 21 2013 00:33 Sn0_Man wrote:
It doesn't make a ton of sense as scum but it makes even less sense for him to play the way he did as town. It simply isn't a reasonable play for a townie to make. I can see where a scum player would believe it was the right play.
so as town, you wouldve claimed miller immediately? Without any delay?
Why do you think Koshi is like you?
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This is why WaveofShadow is mafia:
This is one of the first posts from him in CCM:
On May 13 2013 05:41 WaveofShadow wrote:
I also don't think I've ever played with a N0 before. Can't remember.
Will there be a mafia NK tonight aside from possible power role use?
Because if so why are we giving mafia possible targets by talking..? (I guess they could probably knock off known strong players anyway but still.)
(Here is a link to the post for the following: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=407685¤tpage=11#210 )
After that, when hosts confirm that roles can also act on N0, WoS retracts from his stance and starts scumhunting. If you read the game from that point on it can clearly be seen.
This is what i call WoS out for:
On August 20 2013 22:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
WoS, in CCM you dropped the "let's not talk on N0" as soon as you were told the roles can act aswell. You were town.
Why do you take the same approach "let's do not talk" in this game?
WoS does not want to answer me, he keeps dodging the question, and this is all i get out of him:
On August 20 2013 22:22 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 22:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 20 2013 22:20 WaveofShadow wrote:On August 20 2013 22:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
WoS, in CCM you dropped the "let's not talk on N0" as soon as you were told the roles can act aswell. You were town.
Why do you take the same approach "let's do not talk" in this game? What's different about the way I'm acting in this game and in that one thus far? In CCM you understood that the correct way is not to not talk at all on N0. Why do you suggest it again now? Show me how my play is different from my play in CC, Rayn. Did I ever mention anything about changing my mind when I made the 'let's not talk' statement in CC? Hell, did I ever even mention it again?
Look at the answer. He is saying "look, i am playing to my town meta as i played the same way in CCM".
The answer i was looking for (in case he was town was in this post (from CCM):
On May 13 2013 15:15 WaveofShadow wrote:
BH you and I are on seemingly exact wavelengths this game. Not sure what to make of that.
I wasn't sure as to whether or not kita was town or scum but I know he was a good kill for mafia. DP not so much due to thread sentiment, but I do believe they were likely both scum NKs, no vig involved. Personally if scum were thinking like me I think they'd basically assume DP was town and that town KNEW he was town; and letting him get away as an active (assume-confirmed) townie is a no-no as scum. I'm not sure it was a good play as scum though since it essentially destroys any hope of them trying to secure the miller mislynch today, especially since there were definitely some townies who may have been on board for that, but DP is a valuable townie so we're at a loss for sure in the end.
This is essentially why I was wondering whether it was a good idea to bother starting up conversation before the N0 NKs; it essentially assured the mafia that kita/DP would be good first kills due to their activity. It's probable that other strong townies will pop up as the game goes on but the two of them painted massive targets on their backs imo.
This is a perfectly fine explanation for his behaviour. Why does he not say that here, in this game? Why is he not trying to explain why town!WoS would bring that "let's not talk on N0" stuff again?
Answer is:
- Because he is mafia and he is trying to play the "look, i played similarly in the other same-a-like game".
- He didn't even think of needing to have an explanation because of "look, i played similarly in the other same-a-like game" would be enough.
- If he was town he could, should and would explain himself.
Lynch D1. Or better, vig N0.
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Wait Oats is in this game. Lynch the fuck out of him.
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On August 21 2013 00:34 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 00:33 Sn0_Man wrote:
It doesn't make a ton of sense as scum but it makes even less sense for him to play the way he did as town. It simply isn't a reasonable play for a townie to make. I can see where a scum player would believe it was the right play. so as town, you wouldve claimed miller immediately? Without any delay? Why do you think Koshi is like you?
Because the thread had happily agreed that SAM claims immediately, a conclusion that Koshi contributed to and supported. It has nothing to do with him being like me.
Ur annoying to play with oats you don't think too much before getting in everybody's face and clouding the thread with shit slinging.
I know its how you play town (hasn't changed since Newbie 36 or w/e) but its still annoying.
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On August 21 2013 00:38 geript wrote:
Wait Oats is in this game. Lynch the fuck out of him.
<3 you too buddy.
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On August 21 2013 00:39 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 00:34 Oatsmaster wrote:On August 21 2013 00:33 Sn0_Man wrote:
It doesn't make a ton of sense as scum but it makes even less sense for him to play the way he did as town. It simply isn't a reasonable play for a townie to make. I can see where a scum player would believe it was the right play. so as town, you wouldve claimed miller immediately? Without any delay? Why do you think Koshi is like you? Because the thread had happily agreed that SAM claims immediately, a conclusion that Koshi contributed to and supported. It has nothing to do with him being like me. Ur annoying to play with oats you don't think too much before getting in everybody's face and clouding the thread with shit slinging. I know its how you play town (hasn't changed since Newbie 36 or w/e) but its still annoying.
I dont know how you got to the second part, but ok.
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Upon reading my post, i apparently reworded oats's question in my head before replying.
Yes I claim SAM instantly, although admittedly thats because I failed to do that once in the past and learned my lesson.
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On August 21 2013 00:28 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 00:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 21 2013 00:20 Koshi wrote:On August 21 2013 00:17 Oatsmaster wrote:
Rayn, talk about Koshi.
Why would he not do it as scum, and what do you like about his explanation? This Koshi talking is somewhat boring. But I can answer that. Because I don't call JK when 4 people are telling me to claim it. I am not going to claim something "under pressure" because 1 guy made a case. I simply won't do that. But even if I did it, you guys are seriously overreacting that this is a 100% scumclaim. Dnu how long you are going to keep hammering on it. Oh but i can reference this. Last game Koshi did not fakeclaim Jailkeeper when he was under serious pressure from BOTH town AND his scumbuddies. A fake jailkeeper claim is FAR more complicated than a miller claim. Take it from someone who solo'd a scum win off the back of a fake Jailkeeper claim.
The thing is people are accusing Koshi of fakeclaiming here, now, because "he is in fear of getting lynched for it".
You do not know the jailkeeper situation, at all. In the last game townie claimed a watcher who had watched 2 people visit a roleblocked townie and if those two people did not claim, we would lynch them. One guy claimed medic (reasonable), another one was either roleblocker or JK. We were screaming to Koshi in mafia QT "fuck you, why are you trying to throw the game, the only way you can survive is to claim JK". Koshi kept his head calm and said "no way i am claiming, the dude is fakeclaiming watcher". He was fakeclaiming.
Does this sound like a dude who being called out for something in his couple of first posts would panic as scum and fakeclaim miller?
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On August 21 2013 00:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 00:28 DarthPunk wrote:On August 21 2013 00:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 21 2013 00:20 Koshi wrote:On August 21 2013 00:17 Oatsmaster wrote:
Rayn, talk about Koshi.
Why would he not do it as scum, and what do you like about his explanation? This Koshi talking is somewhat boring. But I can answer that. Because I don't call JK when 4 people are telling me to claim it. I am not going to claim something "under pressure" because 1 guy made a case. I simply won't do that. But even if I did it, you guys are seriously overreacting that this is a 100% scumclaim. Dnu how long you are going to keep hammering on it. Oh but i can reference this. Last game Koshi did not fakeclaim Jailkeeper when he was under serious pressure from BOTH town AND his scumbuddies. A fake jailkeeper claim is FAR more complicated than a miller claim. Take it from someone who solo'd a scum win off the back of a fake Jailkeeper claim. The thing is people are accusing Koshi of fakeclaiming here, now, because "he is in fear of getting lynched for it". You do not know the jailkeeper situation, at all. In the last game townie claimed a watcher who had watched 2 people visit a roleblocked townie and if those two people did not claim, we would lynch them. One guy claimed medic (reasonable), another one was either roleblocker or JK. We were screaming to Koshi in mafia QT "fuck you, why are you trying to throw the game, the only way you can survive is to claim JK". Koshi kept his head calm and said "no way i am claiming, the dude is fakeclaiming watcher". He was fakeclaiming. Does this sound like a dude who being called out for something in his couple of first posts would panic as scum and fakeclaim miller?
He said that the miller should claim countless times. He then does not claim miller until much later whilst under duress and with a shit "breadcrumb" despite being active in the thread.
He was an already scummy player. With a suspect as fuck miller claim. And a breadcrumb that was obviously looked for after the claim.
It is possible that he was just retarded townie. But unless a better option presents itself. (which I do not believe is WoS atm) he dies.
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Koshi is far worse as town as he is as scum or 3p. He is almost definitely town.
WoS on the other hand... Can you now comment on my case?
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@rayn: I'll admit thats a no. I still prefer avoiding meta judgements on players I haven't played with before.
PS: Why did you call for an N0 vig on WoS? That seems a bit... iunno. To me its more scum motivated for an N0 vig to fly out (given that all the vig roles are 1-shot). I mean, you have to be REAL certain to be calling for that 5 hours into N0 without all that much info available to town. Or you just want vig bullets blown at members who have demonstrated a willingness to post somewhat. Cases are fine but WoS is really low down the vig list right now.
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To add, IMO early vig shots should follow the traditional method of eliminating the silent ones (where possible) and letting the loud scum hang themselves with their own words. If WoS is scum we should have plenty of time to nail him later on based on voting and his contiunuing thread contributions (or lack thereof). Voting for him is fine but vig shots?
Players like Crazynator (or w/e his name is, the 5 posts guy) are prime Vig candidates the way I see the game. Rainbows/Tofu/etc don't count yet because one assumes they simply aren't awake or at a PC at this time of day.
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Yes, i am really certain that WoS is mafia. There is not a single reason why he would not explain himself and a direct mafia motivation in why he said what he did. I even tried, many times, to get him explain himself. He just would not.
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EBWOP: explain himself as town
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I'm all in on WoS.
He has my hypothetical vote until he gives an answer to both the original question, butt more importantly explains his avoidance discussing it.
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On August 21 2013 01:00 DarthPunk wrote:
I'm all in on WoS.
He has my hypothetical vote until he gives an answer to both the original question, butt more importantly explains his avoidance discussing it.
That is the sad part. He can't justify it anymore to me. I gave him multiple possibilities of explaining himself. Now i have given him the correct answer. I am not accepting it any more. :/
That's why expect people to answer me when i ask something about them.
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let me extrapolate. Rayns case is very good and leaves me with severe doubts over WoS. Further I liked the way rayn dealt with my tunnel and I think he is more likely to be town than scum.
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On August 21 2013 00:50 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 00:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 21 2013 00:28 DarthPunk wrote:On August 21 2013 00:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 21 2013 00:20 Koshi wrote:On August 21 2013 00:17 Oatsmaster wrote:
Rayn, talk about Koshi.
Why would he not do it as scum, and what do you like about his explanation? This Koshi talking is somewhat boring. But I can answer that. Because I don't call JK when 4 people are telling me to claim it. I am not going to claim something "under pressure" because 1 guy made a case. I simply won't do that. But even if I did it, you guys are seriously overreacting that this is a 100% scumclaim. Dnu how long you are going to keep hammering on it. Oh but i can reference this. Last game Koshi did not fakeclaim Jailkeeper when he was under serious pressure from BOTH town AND his scumbuddies. A fake jailkeeper claim is FAR more complicated than a miller claim. Take it from someone who solo'd a scum win off the back of a fake Jailkeeper claim. The thing is people are accusing Koshi of fakeclaiming here, now, because "he is in fear of getting lynched for it". You do not know the jailkeeper situation, at all. In the last game townie claimed a watcher who had watched 2 people visit a roleblocked townie and if those two people did not claim, we would lynch them. One guy claimed medic (reasonable), another one was either roleblocker or JK. We were screaming to Koshi in mafia QT "fuck you, why are you trying to throw the game, the only way you can survive is to claim JK". Koshi kept his head calm and said "no way i am claiming, the dude is fakeclaiming watcher". He was fakeclaiming. Does this sound like a dude who being called out for something in his couple of first posts would panic as scum and fakeclaim miller? He said that the miller should claim countless times. He then does not claim miller until much later whilst under duress and with a shit "breadcrumb" despite being active in the thread. He was an already scummy player. With a suspect as fuck miller claim. And a breadcrumb that was obviously looked for after the claim. It is possible that he was just retarded townie. But unless a better option presents itself. (which I do not believe is WoS atm) he dies.
On August 21 2013 01:00 DarthPunk wrote:
I'm all in on WoS.
He has my hypothetical vote until he gives an answer to both the original question, butt more importantly explains his avoidance discussing it.
Sup dudes. How did this happen, DP?
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how pissed while you be if WoS flips town Rayn?
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@Rayn. Explain why Koshi is town.
@WoS. You just sucking or you roll scum? No dick move analysis available, but I expect way more from you bro. But I kinda like your target so... :/
Actually nix that, I'd rather lynch deep penetration. Dudes being an ass which he admitted he was more likely to do as scum. Also his reasons for thinking rayn as scum are complete bs.
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EPT
