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On September 26 2013 12:28 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2013 12:25 Mocsta wrote:On September 26 2013 12:08 Pandain wrote:On September 26 2013 12:05 Mocsta wrote:
Pandain.
Am I mafia? I don't think so. I actually think your medic claim is null rather than town, because I've learned from Golden Sun that mafia can do retarded shit. But your previous play has been town. You have been active and contributing. Not afraid to get into the limelight and be pressured. I dunno if that's true. Not the claim part. The not afraid to be pressurised. I haven't been pressured yet. All I have done is chuck the shots yesterday at marv. Cos everyone influential is saying I'm scum, and no one has provided supporting reasons. Annoying as fuck. Anyways I'm really stumped this game. So much isn't adding up. It's more than just having a bad game. Going to have to reread with all reads back to null. So demotivated right now though. You've open yourself to BE pressured by being so proactive. You're not afraid of the limelight. And they're just mad. In an ideal world we would lynch you for lying, but unfortunately Ace isn't here to support me. see. Limelight isn't a tell. I'm proactive as either alignment.
I a tually don't care if ppl think I'm scum. I care they are discrediting me with zero reasons.
As for the read on rayn. This is something I'm mulling over. I'm starting to think an active could be scum. Problem is. This is almost a cop out.. like lets say one or two scum are in me. Rayn. Marv. Yamato
There's still 4 to 5 scum in the rest.
Even though the pool is greater, the outcome of a mislynch is much less detrimental.
I'm saying. Even if rayn or marv is my top scum read, I'm not sure if they should be targeyted as the first scum lynch.. it's the equivalent of why u don't vig active players.
The counter argument is let them defend themselves and prove township... Is this effective use of thread time?
Probably it is. But after the night kills. No point wasting time defending self now. When could be filter diving the other scum.
Regarding ve. He martyrs/gives up as scum. He did it in hydra to OO. Just felt like throwing out it's alignment nullish
K Thnx bye.
Rant over
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I'm also annoyed umasi swapped votes here and there, but wasn't present in the thread
Iirc
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I'm pretty disappointed that I couldn't make the deadline today. You guys went full retard. Never go full retard.
I just skimmed the thread on my phone so I'm gonna do a full read through and do some analysis.
Mocsta is town btw. Scum would never do what he just did.
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I cannot believe you guys wasted 2-3 pages on a fucking spreadsheet.
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Firmtofu is prob town lol.
See how he talks to us as if he is a responsible parent.
Reminds me if him in post game chat.
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Fun fact: geript's name is on two places in the D1 vote count.
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Another fun fact, Koshi's vote is not listed as on CRay despite his switch being after deadline.
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Iamperfect I am also curious why you would ever advocate lynching someone who just claimed blue and could be easily counter claimed.
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Sentenial why do you think I'm going after easy targets when I'm clearly not. What do you think of me now.
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Today's lynch information is going to be so good when you lynch Cephiro tomorrow.
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Im going to start writing a stream of consciousness as I read through filters.
Choosing names via RNG; zaragon is first cab off the rank.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423071&user=Zaragon&view=all
+ Show Spoiler +- First post: Observes Geript/DP fight. Thoughts match my own at the time of occurrence. I find it interesting he notes Geript posting at a controlled interval rate. Thats an astute observation I would expect more from a town player
- Second post: More astute observations on timing intervals. Naturally suspicious of my pandain observation but not running a discredit campaign; just verbalizing a theory. Seems like hallmark town play.
- Third post: Theory crafting. Alingment null
- Fourth post:Fair post in hindsight (and matched Marvs interpretation of the post as well)Scum love making these types of posts; alignment null. I would have preferred if he gave his stance on wave, instead of just throwing analysis into that specific post.
- Post I think posts like this make zaragon town. Given town read to yam/marv is easy/smart to do as scum. I really like that zaragon is naturally suspicious enough to drop yam to netural for a completely valid reason. I really think this is the extra level of detail that scum are unwilling to input.
- PostMakes a post about rayn and substance. Based on quotes, i can't figure out how zaragon is involved. Its worth following up, as in the quote chain; I don't like how JAT responds to OO by avoiding to answer the question by throwing a counter question. Then if I piece together the quotes properly?? it seems like Rayn is coaching JAT to respond. -> Bookmarked for future investigation
- Really town response to marv regarding VE; and the comments on VE align very much with my perception of VE day1. Marv question is fair as well. Points to him + zaragon
- post
Im not sure how much I like rayns question; but I do like zaragon retort. Yes, clearly town. Enough on the town reads, will start looking at his reads; see if I can agree on them other than early VE1 perceptions (where we align)
- Its weird. Day1, i felt very town about zaragon. Day2 I changed my mind based on association cases (tsk. i know). Even now on a re-read day1, im perceiving zara as town. So odd that CC/Rayn attack him.
- Vote VEI like the post in theory. And the reasoning for VE appears valid, and is consistent. What i don't like about zaragon is "what is missing". Where is the pressure/qusetions to VE? My hunch is that zaragon is a true analyst in the sense that he gets an interpretation from what is available, and hence, doesn't need to probe for more information (unlike people such as myself). If that is true, I can believe why he hasnt tangled with VE. On the otherhand, you can argue that he has been upfront about his suspicion of VE; and it was VE responsibility to follow up with zaragon. --> Bookmark (check VE followed up, otherwise big scum points to VE)
- Tofu caseThis is perfect. Tofu made a case on zragon based on stream of consciousness as well. Obviously it doesnt match based on scum reads; but this should give me good insight into FT.
I obviously disagree with the FT case. I'm leaning towards misguided town. The case has a vibe about it, kinda like the town-yamato cockiness. like "A HAAAAA! I GOT YOU"... Well even though i said leanign towards misguided, i still completely null on FT for it; as zaragon could also be an easy scum target case. In short: the logic appears like it could be truthfully delivered by town, or easily manufactured as scum trying to nitpick.
- ObservationsYeah, im starting to notice rayns apathy. Im goign to have to priortise his filter dive. Points on FT are good, and one of the things you lose when filter diving (thread context). So FT was a prime lynch candidate and pulled out a counter case on zaragon. Unless zaragon was perceived as a complete roll-over, this doesn't make sense for scum. Surely there were better ppl to go after than someone defending you.. --> Bookmark need to check how easy FT dropped his read on zaragon. Was it self-admittedly, or did someone convince him etc
- Finally pressures VE (by asking about FT). Interesting question actually; and another reason this guy has to be town. Trying to see how his two scum reads interact. I like this A LOT.
- Zaragon doesnt have a post replying to VE/FT question; so i guess both dodged it. hmmm. will have to bookmark that too.
- Solid postI really like this guy. Can't believe hes a newbie. Makes me feel ashamed of my play this game.
Sorry for attacking you before lynch. Clearly town. Really good instincts. Please don't replace out.
Im now very curious about rayn/FT/Pandain.
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BTW, now I read Zaragon
+ the early attack from CC
CC looks really bad for joining me on the zaragon bandwagon at the end of Day2.
Cant really give an opinion on geript as hes a piece of shit this game.
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Okay. This is for for me, filter links to vote filters in vote thread, so ignore at your leisure. Constant copy/paste out of a spreadsheet is for chucklefucks.
+ Show Spoiler +
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Whats sad is that i dont think lm actually didnt play THAT bad a game if he really believed be wouldnt be lynched
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Oh and zaragon is an addition to my obvi town list
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On September 26 2013 16:09 Mattchew wrote:
Whats sad is that i dont think lm actually didnt play THAT bad a game if he really believed be wouldnt be lynched
You voted LM both days and never voted anyone else ever in the history of day one and two
HRMMMMMMMMM GET VOTE ANALYZED BISH
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Stream of consciousness: Stutters695
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423071&user=Stutters695&view=all
+ Show Spoiler +- First post: Focused on Kush, and others perceptions of Kush. If forced to decide, I will lean town. I think a scum that wants a "weak" player will go on the offensive directly to that player. Stutters decision suggests that he has read the thread, come to the opinion that Kush is scum; and noticed a comment suggesting kush may be town so is querying it. I suppose this is what a suspicious town *should* do; but, its still pretty selfish as an opening post. Why is he avoiding all the other conversation that occured? Overal, leaning town (just)
- I really dont his campaign post here; but i dont mind his follow up to DP pressure here. Its pretty confident, and the reasoning is a valid interpretation for early day1 information. Ultimately, scum *could* generate that reasoning; but, I think the way stutters went about it is indicative of recent tl town style.
- A few null posts. As either alignment, he needs to follow up; and justify the case with Kush etc.. I would say he reads genuine in conviction though. Guess with Kush, you can fake it. Yeha, stay as null.
- Post: This is an interesting reply. As in, as town, I *think* I would respond the same. All I can think is that, as scum, I would try and belittle him for admitting the case is good. So conversely I assume as town I wouldn't do it. As an aside, in my experience, when someone admits the case looks good - its been from town -> kush is town
- Post Keeps pushing for Kush. I mena its a good thing he keeps campaigning. But he dosent offer a thought on anything else int he thread. Even when talking about vigs, its to divert back to Kush. I think thats pretty scummy, even if the cause is good in intention.
- Post hmm. I'm not sure how much i like the pressure on kush (his only scum read). I mean, hes campaigning for him.. but when pressuring it feels jovial and distanced. I guess you can argue that you dont have to convince your scumread they are scum, but still. I just get an odd feeling that its not serious.
Considering stutters695 writes short paragrpahs in general, i dont see how phone posting should be stopping him interacting either. Anyways...
- Chairman I just dont get this. Has been "reading filters" for a timestamp difference of two hours, and his first contribution to the thread is to call out a another weak player. I mean, its not that town cant target two weak players; its that he promised to filter read, and is instead commenting on live person (that is flipped town) and hasn't had any bearing on the thread (yet).. Theres nothing on DP/Geript or VE or FT etc.. i dont like this.
Chairman also made a post stating it was odd stutters called him out like this - specifically the focus of the question. Its wrong My thoughts on reading was "how does chair plan to TRAP scum"... stutters post is "how does chair plan to MAKE LIFE HARD hard for scum". It might sound like a small thing, but it indicates stutters is not looking to identify scum.
considering he has failed to comment on live matters, and this is his second weak player target Im going to give him a scum read so far. I just cant understand the motivation for this query to chairman as town.
- Post Says he has caught up; but only comments on chairman. I dont like his wording of "failed to demonstrate why it must come from a scum mindset".. but i wont hold it against him. I just dont like it, cos its a long sentence for a guy that types very little. Feels overcompensated. Will leave as null cos prob nitpicking.
- Kush case The entire case is based on not caring about the lynch. Its funny, he debunks kush scum read on stutters (decided to target him pre-game) by stating, he has zero justification.. kinda a weird way to respond, but whatever..
as town: I used to make cases on Kush, but my case style is much different to stutters,so im finding it hard to detect if this is a scum or town case. I think overall, the case is pretty shit and lack lustre. Especially to justify Kush being his sole focus of Day1. I mean, stutters hasnt even commented on anything else other than a semantic from Chairman.. and this is his case? I dont think time is a valid excuse here, but I want to lynch for scum motivation, not poor play. Will treat this as null.
- reads Finally, some reads. Lone is another lurker... this guy is got a habit of choosing ppl who dont fight back. What i dont like here is, he commetns on bad play from lone, but doesnt go so far to call him scum... so why make a post around reads if you not going toa conclusion? Then calls chairman scum without any justification? wat the?
Unfortunately, i can see town doing this post, so null.... ggrrr
- association FINALLY, Stutters converses on something live in the thread other than kush/lurkers... guess who.. its koshi having a dig at FT.... this is very interesting. If stutters is scum (which is my lean) then FT could be an easy association.
- marv pressure ncie question from marv, weird at the time. But now that im suspicious, its useful.
So stutters likes to bus i suppose? Admits his cases are terrible? Knows thread sentiment -> he wont get lynched for stupid shit
Doesnt help me. Accept, if kush is scum.. i need to check how much of a shit kush gave to be pressured by stutters. Did he just brush it off or fight back?
- post Interesting question from marv again. based on the whole martyr thing, shouldnt stutters opinino have changed of at least one of lone/chair... stutters response is acceptable if he is known for tunneling. I suspect he is not (he didtn even mention tunneling in his self-description prior); so i think this is bad points for stutters.
- post Like i dont get this... he set himself up to vote LM, so thats OK. But the thing with kush, i mean; he wrote a case and was campaigning it.. like, i just would expect him to adapt the case if it wasnt getting traction? Its like he moved onto the next best easy wagon choice.. Im really not a fan of this action.
I completely admit town can drop their cases if there is no traction, but he doesnt even state kush is still his top read. The only reason he dropped the vote is because town didnt think it was a good idea.. Yeah, dont like.
- Martyrs by asking for a vig. Kinda weird, cos it acknowledges he is fully aware of his thread position. I actually dunno if town would say this, but feel like if i judge it, im judging poor play vs scummy play. Null
- post aa hhhhahhh... this ties in excatly with what iw as saying before. He left kush alone because the thread didnt want a piece of it; admits it. Hes just looking at options. SCUM RIGHT HERE ! (thnx marv)
- post STILL avoiding key issues int he thread, and regurgitating the same crap about kush and lonemeow. The reads barely updated as well; and doesnt pressure the reads. He basically throwing out shit on ppls names, and hopes other ppl get the traction on them.. I prob have a read a town game on him; but this is a pretty scummy way to play in general.
- Last post sucks too. I wonder now whether Stutters will re-target to Kush?
I got a new scum read. Im a little jaded cos some of it feels like bias against extremely poor play; but theres a few things I just cant fathom originating from a town mindset.
(1) He never comments on live thread matters -> accept a timely delurk to defend FirmTofu.
In fact, the only people he talks about are (Kush, LoneMeow, Chairman) + 1 reference to FT. The 3 in front, are all easy target lurkers; 2 have flipped town.
(2) He never pressures his reads (unless you include that Kush case, which he dropped as soon as it didnt get traction) and when you read his justifications, he doesnt actually explain why its scummy behaviour.. its just poor play
(3) The vig request martyr is really odd as well. Martyrs seems to be the 'in" thing on TL these days, and its not alignment indicative (as in. auto-town).
(4) Can you say this guy is honestly scum hunting? This is beyond poor play, the guy clearly has read the game, and picks/chooses his times to comment. This suggests that there is certainly a motive/agenda behind the posts; yet he doesn't scum hunt.
SCUM RIGHT HERE.
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On September 26 2013 16:25 Mocsta wrote:Stream of consciousness: Stutters695http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423071&user=Stutters695&view=all+ Show Spoiler +- First post: Focused on Kush, and others perceptions of Kush. If forced to decide, I will lean town. I think a scum that wants a "weak" player will go on the offensive directly to that player. Stutters decision suggests that he has read the thread, come to the opinion that Kush is scum; and noticed a comment suggesting kush may be town so is querying it. I suppose this is what a suspicious town *should* do; but, its still pretty selfish as an opening post. Why is he avoiding all the other conversation that occured? Overal, leaning town (just)
- I really dont his campaign post here; but i dont mind his follow up to DP pressure here. Its pretty confident, and the reasoning is a valid interpretation for early day1 information. Ultimately, scum *could* generate that reasoning; but, I think the way stutters went about it is indicative of recent tl town style.
- A few null posts. As either alignment, he needs to follow up; and justify the case with Kush etc.. I would say he reads genuine in conviction though. Guess with Kush, you can fake it. Yeha, stay as null.
- Post: This is an interesting reply. As in, as town, I *think* I would respond the same. All I can think is that, as scum, I would try and belittle him for admitting the case is good. So conversely I assume as town I wouldn't do it. As an aside, in my experience, when someone admits the case looks good - its been from town -> kush is town
- Post Keeps pushing for Kush. I mena its a good thing he keeps campaigning. But he dosent offer a thought on anything else int he thread. Even when talking about vigs, its to divert back to Kush. I think thats pretty scummy, even if the cause is good in intention.
- Post hmm. I'm not sure how much i like the pressure on kush (his only scum read). I mean, hes campaigning for him.. but when pressuring it feels jovial and distanced. I guess you can argue that you dont have to convince your scumread they are scum, but still. I just get an odd feeling that its not serious.
Considering stutters695 writes short paragrpahs in general, i dont see how phone posting should be stopping him interacting either. Anyways...
- Chairman I just dont get this. Has been "reading filters" for a timestamp difference of two hours, and his first contribution to the thread is to call out a another weak player. I mean, its not that town cant target two weak players; its that he promised to filter read, and is instead commenting on live person (that is flipped town) and hasn't had any bearing on the thread (yet).. Theres nothing on DP/Geript or VE or FT etc.. i dont like this.
Chairman also made a post stating it was odd stutters called him out like this - specifically the focus of the question. Its wrong My thoughts on reading was "how does chair plan to TRAP scum"... stutters post is "how does chair plan to MAKE LIFE HARD hard for scum". It might sound like a small thing, but it indicates stutters is not looking to identify scum.
considering he has failed to comment on live matters, and this is his second weak player target Im going to give him a scum read so far. I just cant understand the motivation for this query to chairman as town.
- Post Says he has caught up; but only comments on chairman. I dont like his wording of "failed to demonstrate why it must come from a scum mindset".. but i wont hold it against him. I just dont like it, cos its a long sentence for a guy that types very little. Feels overcompensated. Will leave as null cos prob nitpicking.
- Kush case The entire case is based on not caring about the lynch. Its funny, he debunks kush scum read on stutters (decided to target him pre-game) by stating, he has zero justification.. kinda a weird way to respond, but whatever..
as town: I used to make cases on Kush, but my case style is much different to stutters,so im finding it hard to detect if this is a scum or town case. I think overall, the case is pretty shit and lack lustre. Especially to justify Kush being his sole focus of Day1. I mean, stutters hasnt even commented on anything else other than a semantic from Chairman.. and this is his case? I dont think time is a valid excuse here, but I want to lynch for scum motivation, not poor play. Will treat this as null.
- reads Finally, some reads. Lone is another lurker... this guy is got a habit of choosing ppl who dont fight back. What i dont like here is, he commetns on bad play from lone, but doesnt go so far to call him scum... so why make a post around reads if you not going toa conclusion? Then calls chairman scum without any justification? wat the?
Unfortunately, i can see town doing this post, so null.... ggrrr
- association FINALLY, Stutters converses on something live in the thread other than kush/lurkers... guess who.. its koshi having a dig at FT.... this is very interesting. If stutters is scum (which is my lean) then FT could be an easy association.
- marv pressure ncie question from marv, weird at the time. But now that im suspicious, its useful.
So stutters likes to bus i suppose? Admits his cases are terrible? Knows thread sentiment -> he wont get lynched for stupid shit
Doesnt help me. Accept, if kush is scum.. i need to check how much of a shit kush gave to be pressured by stutters. Did he just brush it off or fight back?
- post Interesting question from marv again. based on the whole martyr thing, shouldnt stutters opinino have changed of at least one of lone/chair... stutters response is acceptable if he is known for tunneling. I suspect he is not (he didtn even mention tunneling in his self-description prior); so i think this is bad points for stutters.
- post Like i dont get this... he set himself up to vote LM, so thats OK. But the thing with kush, i mean; he wrote a case and was campaigning it.. like, i just would expect him to adapt the case if it wasnt getting traction? Its like he moved onto the next best easy wagon choice.. Im really not a fan of this action.
I completely admit town can drop their cases if there is no traction, but he doesnt even state kush is still his top read. The only reason he dropped the vote is because town didnt think it was a good idea.. Yeah, dont like.
- Martyrs by asking for a vig. Kinda weird, cos it acknowledges he is fully aware of his thread position. I actually dunno if town would say this, but feel like if i judge it, im judging poor play vs scummy play. Null
- post aa hhhhahhh... this ties in excatly with what iw as saying before. He left kush alone because the thread didnt want a piece of it; admits it. Hes just looking at options. SCUM RIGHT HERE ! (thnx marv)
- post STILL avoiding key issues int he thread, and regurgitating the same crap about kush and lonemeow. The reads barely updated as well; and doesnt pressure the reads. He basically throwing out shit on ppls names, and hopes other ppl get the traction on them.. I prob have a read a town game on him; but this is a pretty scummy way to play in general.
- Last post sucks too. I wonder now whether Stutters will re-target to Kush?
I got a new scum read. Im a little jaded cos some of it feels like bias against extremely poor play; but theres a few things I just cant fathom originating from a town mindset. (1) He never comments on live thread matters -> accept a timely delurk to defend FirmTofu. In fact, the only people he talks about are (Kush, LoneMeow, Chairman) + 1 reference to FT. The 3 in front, are all easy target lurkers; 2 have flipped town. (2) He never pressures his reads (unless you include that Kush case, which he dropped as soon as it didnt get traction) and when you read his justifications, he doesnt actually explain why its scummy behaviour.. its just poor play (3) The vig request martyr is really odd as well. Martyrs seems to be the 'in" thing on TL these days, and its not alignment indicative (as in. auto-town). (4) Can you say this guy is honestly scum hunting? This is beyond poor play, the guy clearly has read the game, and picks/chooses his times to comment. This suggests that there is certainly a motive/agenda behind the posts; yet he doesn't scum hunt. SCUM RIGHT HERE.
My pre-VCA thoughts agree. I just wrote
Stutters - lynch this as well.
Only ever voted for LoneMeow. I'll get to his filter eventually in my notepad.
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is the stream of consciousness approach working? or too painful to read?
im making really bad calls this game, which is why im trying to be as transparent as possible.
Essentially I recognise I have been cockblocking ppl too prematurely in some cases. Interesting enough, marv has a presence in both these filters (zaragon/stutters) but in a really good way. DW marv, I will get to your filter eventually; dunno, if the word limit will run out though 
Wont be around for the next 6 hrs I guess, but next cab off the rank is Mr.CC. His filter is small, so I might be able to squeeze it out before I head out. Will see.
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EPT
