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On July 13 2013 09:21 Rainbows wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 09:12 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:41 Rainbows wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum? On July 13 2013 08:20 Rainbows wrote:On July 13 2013 08:07 StiMaDDict wrote:
I can only look at jrkirby's post as a pressure vote at this point. He didn't seem to be the type to joke around from the pre game though.
This post is scummy. Gives a reason for jkirbys post and then casts doubt on it. U scum? I'd be very interested in hearing your explanation as to why you honestly think this is scummy. It's scummy because it's renouncing jkirbys jokepost while he gave a reason for it. He never explains why this joking around is suspicious just passively finger points. I want to hear elaboration. "It's a pressure vote, but his joking is wierd because he doesn't seem like a joker." Where's the inconsistency? The point is he is finger pointing without actually doing anything like asking a question. I want to hear his response
It sounded like you had two points.
1) "It's scummy because it's renouncing jkirbys jokepost while he gave a reason for it." (inconsistency)
2) "He never explains why this joking around is suspicious just passively finger points." (finger pointing)
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On July 13 2013 09:21 Umasi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:33 Superfluous wrote:
While I agree that we should lynch someone if they are super scummy, I'd like to point out that voting for no lynch is an option. Assuming I'm interpreting the rules/setup right, mafia only has 1 kp so there's no immediate motive for lynching such as reducing kp. It may be a stronger play to not lynch and hope that cop(if there is one) gets a turn to check before lynch. It is a risk though because I believe we are not guaranteed to have a cop. Just an idea I wanted to throw out and get your guys' thoughts on. Can I ask what everyone thinks of this? Superfluous feels like the most solid lynch at the moment, to me, as I've stated. Most others have just ignored it does anyone have thoughts on it?
I think he's wrong. There are several communities where a Day 1 No Lynch is standard for town, for exactly the reasons he stated: They have a cop to bail them out. We don't know if there's a cop in this game (and there are several other reasons we've gone over), so that strategy doesn't apply.
Basically, it's a non-contributory post that casts suspicion on him.
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Basically, you guys are poking him with a stick and he's just like
"meh"
and nothing is really coming from it, so why are we beating a dead horse?
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Okay, I don't like that post from Stim at all.
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On July 13 2013 09:22 jrkirby wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 09:14 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 09:10 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:57 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:54 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:42 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum? Correct. I would not have posted this particular post as scum. On July 13 2013 08:46 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:43 Rainbows wrote:On July 13 2013 08:41 Umasi wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum? On July 13 2013 08:20 Rainbows wrote:
[quote]
This post is scummy. Gives a reason for jkirbys post and then casts doubt on it. U scum? I'd be very interested in hearing your explanation as to why you honestly think this is scummy. I certainly wouldn't post that if I were scum, it is nothing but a good thing for town. Why WOULD he want to post that as scum? to look town. Scum love to spew general pro town thingsvto get ez town cred.. This is correct. In general, these sorts of posts should result in a null read in a veteran game. But Early Day 1, when it's generally assumed nothing interesting is happening, seemed like a good time to get PSA's out of the way for a newbie crowd. The info is valuable, but it should not get me town cred. It's more important to me that there's a town consensus on the actual content of the post, not my alignment. (Plenty of time for that later.) You obviously think that your post was pro town, right? That's why you shouldn't have posted it as scum. But then you say that you shouldn't get town cred from it, indicating that you don't think it's pro town. ? Pro town in a newbie game, yes. Probably wouldn't have posted it in a Veteran game unless I really felt the Day 1 conversation stagnating early. I think all my posts are pro-town. Otherwise, why would I post them? (That should apply to everyone but those with a severe inferiority complex.) That doesn't answer the point. The point is that your logic is inconsistant. You say that you wouldn't have posted this as scum. Why? You think that the post is valuable enough to town that scum wouldn't want to post it. You think that only a townie would post it. However, you say that you shouldn't get a town read for it, even though you think that only town would post it. I'm not in the business of telling people I'm town. I'm going to scumhunt and try to win this game, and a byproduct of that should be that people will view me as town. Put another way: I don't believe posting specifically with the goal of acquiring towncred is particularly helpful in anything but circumstances where I could be mislynched. I'm prioritizing getting the Town ducks in a row here in the early going so we can move on to the scumhunt, not establishing my Townie-ness. Interestingly, people (Chrom and jrkirby) have seemed more interested in analyzing why I posted rather than what I posted. Can I infer by this that we largely agree with what I have said? Pretty much what you said was: meta is bad, this is the meta that I might accidentally do. That's fine, neither particularly good nor bad imo. But you claimed that you would only post it on the condition that you were town. You admit to having a post that you would post on the condition that you're scum (which I think is foolish), but you won't show it to us, and that's just a tiny bit suspicious.
Seriously man.. this is the best you can do? If he has scum post, big deal. For all we know THIS could be his scum post. Who knows. Is this your first game jrkirby?
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On July 13 2013 09:25 StiMaDDict wrote:Another thing that is annoying the fuck out of me is that how Rainbow "interpreted" my post. This is what I wrote. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:07 StiMaDDict wrote:
I can only look at jrkirby's post as a pressure vote at this point. He didn't seem to be the type to joke around from the pre game though.
Explanation: I find a pressure vote to be a strategy for some people. It works sometimes but not all the times. jrkirby's "case" really is not something of content to be honest. I assumed that it was pressure vote to get some discussions going. So that is what I said. As for the second sentence, his "case" is really fucking bullshit, so there are two possibilities. Either he is joking around or he suck at scumhunting. Now let's look at how Rainbow made me sound like. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:20 Rainbows wrote:On July 13 2013 08:07 StiMaDDict wrote:
I can only look at jrkirby's post as a pressure vote at this point. He didn't seem to be the type to joke around from the pre game though.
This post is scummy. Gives a reason for jkirbys post and then casts doubt on it. U scum? Scummy? Yes, I did give jkirby's post a reason but I didn't doubt it. If I had said it was a joke vote and he didn't seem to be a joker, your statement makes sense. I said pressure vote and nothing more. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:28 Rainbows wrote:
Yes. What is odd about his vote? Why ia this joking around suspicious? I didn't fucking say it was odd. Jesus, give me a break. I NEVER FUCKING SAID IT WAS SUSPICIOUS. Note to all: + Show Spoiler +btw, I'm really trying to stay active. Sometimes I write really slow and I might be answering something that is couple of pages back. Sometimes I write one liners. My bad. + Show Spoiler +If you don't like it, well fuck you
Ask Xzavier how insulting the thread turns out.
(Keep it civil if you can.)
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Keep your cool stim, rainbows just misinterpreted your post, that's all.
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Since I have to spell it out for the thread (StiM, Umasi....)
Try not to defend your town reads. Let them defend themselves. We get more content via a direct conversation, and if scum is barking up the wrong tree, he'll be scared off if three townies rush to someone's defense.
It is written: Lo, and let thy scum tunnel; for when they tunnel the town, the Town tunnels into you.
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My bad, guys.
Got pissed for no reason. Spoilers and quotes kept getting messed up.
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EBWOP: 'defending town reads' meaning jumping to someone's defense when they get FoS'd. Obviously, defend your literal town reads (example: Bad guy: "Your town reads suck!" You: "No, they don't! Here's why...")
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On July 13 2013 09:30 StiMaDDict wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 09:22 jrkirby wrote:On July 13 2013 09:14 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 09:10 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:57 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:54 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:42 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum? Correct. I would not have posted this particular post as scum. On July 13 2013 08:46 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:43 Rainbows wrote:On July 13 2013 08:41 Umasi wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:
[quote]
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum?
[quote]
I'd be very interested in hearing your explanation as to why you honestly think this is scummy. I certainly wouldn't post that if I were scum, it is nothing but a good thing for town. Why WOULD he want to post that as scum? to look town. Scum love to spew general pro town thingsvto get ez town cred.. This is correct. In general, these sorts of posts should result in a null read in a veteran game. But Early Day 1, when it's generally assumed nothing interesting is happening, seemed like a good time to get PSA's out of the way for a newbie crowd. The info is valuable, but it should not get me town cred. It's more important to me that there's a town consensus on the actual content of the post, not my alignment. (Plenty of time for that later.) You obviously think that your post was pro town, right? That's why you shouldn't have posted it as scum. But then you say that you shouldn't get town cred from it, indicating that you don't think it's pro town. ? Pro town in a newbie game, yes. Probably wouldn't have posted it in a Veteran game unless I really felt the Day 1 conversation stagnating early. I think all my posts are pro-town. Otherwise, why would I post them? (That should apply to everyone but those with a severe inferiority complex.) That doesn't answer the point. The point is that your logic is inconsistant. You say that you wouldn't have posted this as scum. Why? You think that the post is valuable enough to town that scum wouldn't want to post it. You think that only a townie would post it. However, you say that you shouldn't get a town read for it, even though you think that only town would post it. I'm not in the business of telling people I'm town. I'm going to scumhunt and try to win this game, and a byproduct of that should be that people will view me as town. Put another way: I don't believe posting specifically with the goal of acquiring towncred is particularly helpful in anything but circumstances where I could be mislynched. I'm prioritizing getting the Town ducks in a row here in the early going so we can move on to the scumhunt, not establishing my Townie-ness. Interestingly, people (Chrom and jrkirby) have seemed more interested in analyzing why I posted rather than what I posted. Can I infer by this that we largely agree with what I have said? Pretty much what you said was: meta is bad, this is the meta that I might accidentally do. That's fine, neither particularly good nor bad imo. But you claimed that you would only post it on the condition that you were town. You admit to having a post that you would post on the condition that you're scum (which I think is foolish), but you won't show it to us, and that's just a tiny bit suspicious. Seriously man.. this is the best you can do? If he has scum post, big deal. For all we know THIS could be his scum post. Who knows. Is this your first game jrkirby?
"For all we know, THIS could be his scum post." That's exactly what I was trying to get information on. Here was my reasoning: if this is his scum post, then he won't HAVE a real scum post. But it's been long enough that he could've written another one by now, so no point in pushing it anymore.
No, this is my second game, kinda.
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Stim.
Why the hell are you pointing out things about jkirby if you dont find them suspicious? What was the purpose of your post then?
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On July 13 2013 09:35 jrkirby wrote:
"For all we know, THIS could be his scum post." That's exactly what I was trying to get information on. Here was my reasoning: if this is his scum post, then he won't HAVE a real scum post. But it's been long enough that he could've written another one by now, so no point in pushing it anymore.
No, this is my second game, kinda.
Fair enough.
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On July 13 2013 09:33 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Since I have to spell it out for the thread (StiM, Umasi....)
Try not to defend your town reads. Let them defend themselves. We get more content via a direct conversation, and if scum is barking up the wrong tree, he'll be scared off if three townies rush to someone's defense.
It is written: Lo, and let thy scum tunnel; for when they tunnel the town, the Town tunnels into you.
What made you assume I thought you were a town read?
I don't think I've said anything like that, and I actually don't have you as town (or scum)
attacking someones logic is not a claim that someone else is townie, it's just saying "this is stupid"
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On July 13 2013 09:38 Umasi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 09:33 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Since I have to spell it out for the thread (StiM, Umasi....)
Try not to defend your town reads. Let them defend themselves. We get more content via a direct conversation, and if scum is barking up the wrong tree, he'll be scared off if three townies rush to someone's defense.
It is written: Lo, and let thy scum tunnel; for when they tunnel the town, the Town tunnels into you. What made you assume I thought you were a town read? I don't think I've said anything like that, and I actually don't have you as town (or scum) attacking someones logic is not a claim that someone else is townie, it's just saying "this is stupid"
That's fine. I'm just generally uncomfortable with people attacking my attacker when I'm perfectly able to defend myself. Honestly, I think I was getting more info from Kirby than he was from me, but he seems to have been scared off at this point regardless.
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On July 13 2013 09:35 jrkirby wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 09:30 StiMaDDict wrote:On July 13 2013 09:22 jrkirby wrote:On July 13 2013 09:14 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 09:10 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:57 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:54 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:42 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum? Correct. I would not have posted this particular post as scum. On July 13 2013 08:46 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:43 Rainbows wrote:On July 13 2013 08:41 Umasi wrote:
[quote]
I certainly wouldn't post that if I were scum, it is nothing but a good thing for town. Why WOULD he want to post that as scum? to look town. Scum love to spew general pro town thingsvto get ez town cred.. This is correct. In general, these sorts of posts should result in a null read in a veteran game. But Early Day 1, when it's generally assumed nothing interesting is happening, seemed like a good time to get PSA's out of the way for a newbie crowd. The info is valuable, but it should not get me town cred. It's more important to me that there's a town consensus on the actual content of the post, not my alignment. (Plenty of time for that later.) You obviously think that your post was pro town, right? That's why you shouldn't have posted it as scum. But then you say that you shouldn't get town cred from it, indicating that you don't think it's pro town. ? Pro town in a newbie game, yes. Probably wouldn't have posted it in a Veteran game unless I really felt the Day 1 conversation stagnating early. I think all my posts are pro-town. Otherwise, why would I post them? (That should apply to everyone but those with a severe inferiority complex.) That doesn't answer the point. The point is that your logic is inconsistant. You say that you wouldn't have posted this as scum. Why? You think that the post is valuable enough to town that scum wouldn't want to post it. You think that only a townie would post it. However, you say that you shouldn't get a town read for it, even though you think that only town would post it. I'm not in the business of telling people I'm town. I'm going to scumhunt and try to win this game, and a byproduct of that should be that people will view me as town. Put another way: I don't believe posting specifically with the goal of acquiring towncred is particularly helpful in anything but circumstances where I could be mislynched. I'm prioritizing getting the Town ducks in a row here in the early going so we can move on to the scumhunt, not establishing my Townie-ness. Interestingly, people (Chrom and jrkirby) have seemed more interested in analyzing why I posted rather than what I posted. Can I infer by this that we largely agree with what I have said? Pretty much what you said was: meta is bad, this is the meta that I might accidentally do. That's fine, neither particularly good nor bad imo. But you claimed that you would only post it on the condition that you were town. You admit to having a post that you would post on the condition that you're scum (which I think is foolish), but you won't show it to us, and that's just a tiny bit suspicious. Seriously man.. this is the best you can do? If he has scum post, big deal. For all we know THIS could be his scum post. Who knows. Is this your first game jrkirby? "For all we know, THIS could be his scum post." That's exactly what I was trying to get information on. Here was my reasoning: if this is his scum post, then he won't HAVE a real scum post. But it's been long enough that he could've written another one by now, so no point in pushing it anymore. No, this is my second game, kinda.
Why is there no point in pushing it?
There's no reason to not push it if you think it was scummy, and if you were pushing it for the sake of having something to do, just go do something else.
Still, more people, what do you think of Superfluous post and then disappearance?
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I think Jrkirby's and Sponge's opening posts had the same motivation: to get discussion moving. Both have done this and we have multiple discussions taking place.
Since then, Sponge did a little coaching. Sponge has come under pressure from multiple people (for his opening post), and has dealt with it while being reasonably open. The only time that he has not been open is by refusing to post the other version of his opening post. Sponge did a little coaching again as he tried to stop Umasi from defending him. So far my read on Sponge has moved very slightly towards town.
Since his opening, Jrkirby has attacked Sponge for his opening post, and done nothing else. That's fine because it is early and Jrkirby is pushing to get a reaction from someone. This is not scummy to me, null read.
Umasi has defended Hurricane, which cannot be viewed as scummy at this point. Umasi has attacked Superfluous. I would say that this attack could be scummy as it is based on nothing, but it could just be to get Super to post more (he only has one post). Umasi then repeats that he thinks Super's post is scummy and votes for him. The problem I have with this is that Umasi claims Super's only post was scummy, when I do not think that it was.
On July 13 2013 08:33 Superfluous wrote:
While I agree that we should lynch someone if they are super scummy, I'd like to point out that voting for no lynch is an option. Assuming I'm interpreting the rules/setup right, mafia only has 1 kp so there's no immediate motive for lynching such as reducing kp. It may be a stronger play to not lynch and hope that cop(if there is one) gets a turn to check before lynch. It is a risk though because I believe we are not guaranteed to have a cop. Just an idea I wanted to throw out and get your guys' thoughts on.
If Umasi was looking for a reaction then I do not understand why he posted:
On July 13 2013 08:59 Umasi wrote:
Where the hell are you. You popped in, gave a single post, that I think is scummy as crap, still haven't show back up. Pretty confusing, because the post you gave was irrelevant.
How was Super's post scummy as crap? I do not think that Umasi is looking for scum, and if he is not just fishing for Super to respond then I think that Umasi is just looking for a neutral place to put his early vote. Unlike Jrkirby's, Umasi's vote is not a troll vote.
I have a slight scum read on Umasi.
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On July 13 2013 09:41 Umasi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 09:35 jrkirby wrote:On July 13 2013 09:30 StiMaDDict wrote:On July 13 2013 09:22 jrkirby wrote:On July 13 2013 09:14 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 09:10 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:57 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:54 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:42 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:
[quote]
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum?
Correct. I would not have posted this particular post as scum. On July 13 2013 08:46 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:43 Rainbows wrote:
[quote]
to look town. Scum love to spew general pro town thingsvto get ez town cred..
This is correct. In general, these sorts of posts should result in a null read in a veteran game. But Early Day 1, when it's generally assumed nothing interesting is happening, seemed like a good time to get PSA's out of the way for a newbie crowd. The info is valuable, but it should not get me town cred. It's more important to me that there's a town consensus on the actual content of the post, not my alignment. (Plenty of time for that later.) You obviously think that your post was pro town, right? That's why you shouldn't have posted it as scum. But then you say that you shouldn't get town cred from it, indicating that you don't think it's pro town. ? Pro town in a newbie game, yes. Probably wouldn't have posted it in a Veteran game unless I really felt the Day 1 conversation stagnating early. I think all my posts are pro-town. Otherwise, why would I post them? (That should apply to everyone but those with a severe inferiority complex.) That doesn't answer the point. The point is that your logic is inconsistant. You say that you wouldn't have posted this as scum. Why? You think that the post is valuable enough to town that scum wouldn't want to post it. You think that only a townie would post it. However, you say that you shouldn't get a town read for it, even though you think that only town would post it. I'm not in the business of telling people I'm town. I'm going to scumhunt and try to win this game, and a byproduct of that should be that people will view me as town. Put another way: I don't believe posting specifically with the goal of acquiring towncred is particularly helpful in anything but circumstances where I could be mislynched. I'm prioritizing getting the Town ducks in a row here in the early going so we can move on to the scumhunt, not establishing my Townie-ness. Interestingly, people (Chrom and jrkirby) have seemed more interested in analyzing why I posted rather than what I posted. Can I infer by this that we largely agree with what I have said? Pretty much what you said was: meta is bad, this is the meta that I might accidentally do. That's fine, neither particularly good nor bad imo. But you claimed that you would only post it on the condition that you were town. You admit to having a post that you would post on the condition that you're scum (which I think is foolish), but you won't show it to us, and that's just a tiny bit suspicious. Seriously man.. this is the best you can do? If he has scum post, big deal. For all we know THIS could be his scum post. Who knows. Is this your first game jrkirby? "For all we know, THIS could be his scum post." That's exactly what I was trying to get information on. Here was my reasoning: if this is his scum post, then he won't HAVE a real scum post. But it's been long enough that he could've written another one by now, so no point in pushing it anymore. No, this is my second game, kinda. Why is there no point in pushing it? There's no reason to not push it if you think it was scummy, and if you were pushing it for the sake of having something to do, just go do something else. Still, more people, what do you think of Superfluous post and then disappearance?
If you were posting with the serious intent of scumhunting him, don't let me stop you. The vibe I got from you and StiM was 'Dude, just stop.'
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On July 13 2013 09:36 Rainbows wrote:
Stim.
Why the hell are you pointing out things about jkirby if you dont find them suspicious? What was the purpose of your post then?
For your entertainment. + Show Spoiler +
I do not like to post fluff + Show Spoiler +Could someone give me a definition of fluff? Contentless gut feel is what I think means
If I had just said, "oh, jkirby's case is terrible and that's why I said such and such." I wouldn't be meaningful in anyway.
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What do you think about Stims reaction, HZ? He kinda derailed to some soft pressure :/
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EPT
