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On June 25 2011 10:23 iPAndi wrote:
Orb,
Stop the fucking QQing whenever you loose. If you are going to stream at least take your losses like a man instead of whining over supposed racial imbalance. I love seeing your stream on mute because of this reason, but then you have to just type to the other guy. Grow up and learn some manners.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/aPAo8.png)
60% zvp winrate for zerg in the last month in korea...
"supposed" racial imbalance indeed
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Imbalance is only really a problem at the tip top level, at the master league level its just a macro / micro / unit composition problem.
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On June 25 2011 10:40 Mitchlew wrote:
Imbalance is only really a problem at the tip top level, at the master league level its just a macro / micro / unit composition problem.
This is a common misconception.
To try to imply that balance doesn't affect anything but the top level is an absolutely retarded statement to make.
Just for argumentative purposes, imagine if, for example, the colossus did 100 damage per shot. This would be imbalanced. You think this wouldn't affect masters players? You think this would only affect the top couple of players in the world?
Think about how unbelievably stupid your argument is for a second.
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60% zvp winrate for zerg in the last month in korea...
"supposed" racial imbalance indeed
Dude look at that graph, it's like the most wild thing ever. Standard deviation is a little high.
I think ZvP is really exciting right now. There's tons of strategies coming out of both protosses and zergs, and I've seen plenty of games that look absurdly dominating from either race honestly.
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How did this kid come to be a featured streamer?
He has no accomplishments and just cries IMBA and rages about everything... Also, he talks so much crap to his opponents before ragequitting... Is this what TL supports really? I thought TL was better than this..
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Orb when you cry imbalance the way you make it out is that if the zerg goes mass muta ling against a protoss it is impossible for a protoss to do anything. If this is true how come at the tip top Z doesn't do this all the time?
As for your balance argument you are giving unrealistic examples, when there is a slight imba it is still possible to overcome.
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On June 25 2011 11:06 Mitchlew wrote:
Orb when you cry imbalance the way you make it out is that if the zerg goes mass muta ling against a protoss it is impossible for a protoss to do anything. If this is true how come at the tip top Z doesn't do this all the time?
As for your balance argument you are giving unrealistic examples, when there is a slight imba it is still possible to overcome.
perhaps you don't watch pvz
i see top zergs doing this all the time
If it's "slightly" imba it's still imba. If you overcome that imbalance it means you have to be that much better than your opponent.
If you look at skill as a numerical value for the sake of argument, let's say two players are both at 80 skill (out of 100). They should have a pretty even game. If one player is at 85 skill and the other one at 75 then logically the 85 skill player should win. With imbalance, even slight, you have to skew it and be much much better than your opponent instead of just better at all, and that's essentially the definition of imbalance...
Besides which saying it's a "slight imba" is extremely vague not to mention subjective
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If you look at skill as a numerical value for the sake of argument, let's say two players are both at 80 skill (out of 100). They should have a pretty even game. If one player is at 85 skill and the other one at 75 then logically the 85 skill player should win. With imbalance, even slight, you have to skew it and be much much better than your opponent instead of just better at all, and that's essentially the definition of imbalance...
Do you really think its that simple?
I just don't see this happening. What I see happening is that there are a lot of strategies that force the other player to play a TON better than the opponent to win.
Like if the Protoss is turtling with deathball and then a-moves to victory, the zerg is often forced to constantly drop, tech, and expand all at the same time to overcome it (or pull some micro or something fancy). Similarly, if we have roach/hydra vs stalker/sentry, suddenly the roles become reversed, where the zerg is a-moving to victory and the protoss is forced to do all this fancy micro etc. in order to keep up. But I think that's just a fundamental aspect of the gameplay and strategy.
I think the main frustrating aspect of the matchup from both sides is that it seems like you're forced into specific counters else you die horribly. Like apparently archons aren't very good against mutas in sc2...
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joke right?
If doing standard rts things is a challenge for you like "dropping, tech, and expand" you should stay in your gold division a bit longer.
ps why is there Kydarian Fungulate but P cant have it anymore  at least you can move out of storm
pps playing with your own units is cool.
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On June 25 2011 10:43 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 10:40 Mitchlew wrote:
Imbalance is only really a problem at the tip top level, at the master league level its just a macro / micro / unit composition problem. This is a common misconception. To try to imply that balance doesn't affect anything but the top level is an absolutely retarded statement to make. Just for argumentative purposes, imagine if, for example, the colossus did 100 damage per shot. This would be imbalanced. You think this wouldn't affect masters players? You think this would only affect the top couple of players in the world? Think about how unbelievably stupid your argument is for a second.
That is the definition of "broken," not subtle discrepancies that are only made apparent at the highest level of play.
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On June 25 2011 14:55 burster wrote:joke right? If doing standard rts things is a challenge for you like "dropping, tech, and expand" you should stay in your gold division a bit longer. ps why is there Kydarian Fungulate but P cant have it anymore at least you can move out of storm pps playing with your own units is cool.
Er... my point was that the Zerg has to do way more than the Protoss to keep up with a-move in certain circumstances. That was it.
Your post is inflammatory, needlessly insulting, and hypocritical considering your 'ironic' signature coupled with your balance whine.
Edit: I forgot that it's stupid to try to have a discussion about matchups without expecting horrible flaming and immaturity, so nevermind, forget I said anything. Orb, don't bother responding via forum post please.
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Its funny when i read some of these comments.. because here is the example I have for you saying IMBA IMBA IMBA all the time.. YOU ARE NOT A TOP PLAYER lol u play top 10 master league players congrats ... ur not playing kiwikakis sheths or idras or other real TOP PLAYERS ur playing random kids that play this game like every one else.. so your statistics means nothing.. because u are not a TOP PLAYER. At a TIPPY top level I agree race does have something to do with it, but micro / macro / strats have a lot to do with it also.. YOU dont have perfect micro / macro ... YOU are not playing tippy top players... lol YOU havnt won anything... This is the point that makes the most sense... your logic on saying that a race is IMBA means nothing because you are not up there playing the best of the best to even have an OPINION if the game is imba or not. So argue that...
EDIT: and i am not saying im better then u ... i wouldn't do that to anyone.. I am just saying how can u say something is IMBA when ur not playing at the top of the game... I don't want to hate on you orb in fact i enjoy when u rage some times it makes me smile. But god damn stop crying sometimes when u cry nothing is gonna happen blizzard gives a shit less about us. I just wanna get the HONEST true answer out there.
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On June 25 2011 22:13 SeizeTheDay wrote:
Its funny when i read some of these comments.. because here is the example I have for you saying IMBA IMBA IMBA all the time.. YOU ARE NOT A TOP PLAYER lol u play top 10 master league players congrats ... ur not playing kiwikakis sheths or idras or other real TOP PLAYERS ur playing random kids that play this game like every one else.. so your statistics means nothing.. because u are not a TOP PLAYER. At a TIPPY top level I agree race does have something to do with it, but micro / macro / strats have a lot to do with it also.. YOU dont have perfect micro / macro ... YOU are not playing tippy top players... lol YOU havnt won anything... This is the point that makes the most sense... your logic on saying that a race is IMBA means nothing because you are not up there playing the best of the best to even have an OPINION if the game is imba or not. So argue that...
EDIT: and i am not saying im better then u ... i wouldn't do that to anyone.. I am just saying how can u say something is IMBA when ur not playing at the top of the game... I don't want to hate on you orb in fact i enjoy when u rage some times it makes me smile. But god damn stop crying sometimes when u cry nothing is gonna happen blizzard gives a shit less about us. I just wanna get the HONEST true answer out there.
YOU have no IDEA what YOU'RE talking ABOUT
YOU also LIKE to USE capslock A lot of THE time for NO apparent REASON because your POORLY worded ARGUMENTS convey no EMPHASIS so you HAVE to do it YOURSELF with RANDOMLY capslocking WORDS
You honestly have literally no idea what you're talking about
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On June 26 2011 05:58 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 22:13 SeizeTheDay wrote:
Its funny when i read some of these comments.. because here is the example I have for you saying IMBA IMBA IMBA all the time.. YOU ARE NOT A TOP PLAYER lol u play top 10 master league players congrats ... ur not playing kiwikakis sheths or idras or other real TOP PLAYERS ur playing random kids that play this game like every one else.. so your statistics means nothing.. because u are not a TOP PLAYER. At a TIPPY top level I agree race does have something to do with it, but micro / macro / strats have a lot to do with it also.. YOU dont have perfect micro / macro ... YOU are not playing tippy top players... lol YOU havnt won anything... This is the point that makes the most sense... your logic on saying that a race is IMBA means nothing because you are not up there playing the best of the best to even have an OPINION if the game is imba or not. So argue that...
EDIT: and i am not saying im better then u ... i wouldn't do that to anyone.. I am just saying how can u say something is IMBA when ur not playing at the top of the game... I don't want to hate on you orb in fact i enjoy when u rage some times it makes me smile. But god damn stop crying sometimes when u cry nothing is gonna happen blizzard gives a shit less about us. I just wanna get the HONEST true answer out there. YOU have no IDEA what YOU'RE talking ABOUT YOU also LIKE to USE capslock A lot of THE time for NO apparent REASON because your POORLY worded ARGUMENTS convey no EMPHASIS so you HAVE to do it YOURSELF with RANDOMLY capslocking WORDS You honestly have literally no idea what you're talking about
Orb reminds of me of an American version of TotalHalibut.
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Ever since I started typing with CAPS I have always done this I dont know why lol. How do I have no idea what I am talking about... Your statistics do they only include Masters / GMs? Do they only include the top players in Korea? Do they ? Because if its just OVERALL then lol who cares about the stats.. if some Bronze players play and the kid doesn't know Protoss and the Zerg just happens to win... then that statistic is null from what we are talking about. I have no idea what I am talking about... so what have u won? lol NOTHING ur not that good lets be honest how do u say that zerg is IMBA when ur not a top 5 top 10 or top 25 toss ... even a top 50 toss...The reason i cap is because if we was talking over skype or the phone or in person those words ide be yelling. Just saying. Don't get mad I am not HATING on you also I am just simply trying to understand why u get so mad to be honest I dont care this much. I am just curious about it because you have no reason for it.
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On June 26 2011 08:53 SeizeTheDay wrote:
Ever since I started typing with CAPS I have always done this I dont know why lol. How do I have no idea what I am talking about... Your statistics do they only include Masters / GMs? Do they only include the top players in Korea? Do they ? Because if its just OVERALL then lol who cares about the stats.. if some Bronze players play and the kid doesn't know Protoss and the Zerg just happens to win... then that statistic is null from what we are talking about. I have no idea what I am talking about... so what have u won? lol NOTHING ur not that good lets be honest how do u say that zerg is IMBA when ur not a top 5 top 10 or top 25 toss ... even a top 50 toss...The reason i cap is because if we was talking over skype or the phone or in person those words ide be yelling. Just saying. Don't get mad I am not HATING on you also I am just simply trying to understand why u get so mad to be honest I dont care this much. I am just curious about it because you have no reason for it.
Nice try, they're from tournament stats not some bronze scrubs just the match games
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I dont understand why people hate on orb so much. Ok he has bad days but dont we all? Just dont watch if you dont like it...
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a skype conversation with seizetheday MUST be a PAIN in the ass
ah i forgot...
"LOL"
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On June 26 2011 17:52 Crazyseal wrote:
I dont understand why people hate on orb so much. Ok he has bad days but dont we all? Just dont watch if you dont like it...
I think the whining about balance rubs them the wrong way. He does have this warped mindset that every single aspect of the game must be balanced, like detection. Mostly it is just venting though (I think).
As for me, I love watching him rage, it is entertaining.
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I enjoy the way you think orb
if 50 or so games in top level korean play end up as a 60% winrate for zerg, that totally justifies you crying when 2 of your archons can't kill 20 mutas
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EPT
