• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:12
CEST 11:12
KST 18:12
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall10HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation5$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced4Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles6[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China9Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL66
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing
Tourneys
$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
[G] Progamer Settings i aint gon lie to u bruh... ASL20 Preliminary Maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall
Tourneys
[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China [BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET CSL Xiamen International Invitational The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 631 users

Why Sen vs BoxeR was the best TSL3 series yet

Forum Index > PokerStrategy.com TSL3 Forum
Post a Reply
1 2 3 Next All
Stamper
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany148 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-18 10:51:04
April 18 2011 10:49 GMT
#1
[Spoiler, if you didnt watch the series yet and don't want to know the results, don't read the following]

In all the communities and live stream chats you see mainly 2 kinds of responses towards the RO 16 series between BoxeR and Sen.
The first group praises BoxeR and says things like "The emperor is back" etc.
The second group says they dont really see what was so great about his play.
So I just want to write up why to me this TvZ series was by far the best series in the TSL3 yet.
Going into the matches Sen was the clear favourite, performing well in the GSL World Tournament and practically in every other tournament he competes in. After BoxeR dropped out of Code S in a pretty disappointing fashion (especially his TvZ) people said he might retire soon etc. The liquibet stats also favoured Sen 5713 to 3331, despite BoxeR's fame and the many "auto-voters".
As the games went down I was really surprised how solid BoxeR's TvZ has got. His builds looked well thought-out and refined. He wasn't just going for cheesy rushes, but rather hit many intelligent timings to pressure Sen, trying to wear him down or slowing his tech down. His macro was not perfect, but he showed what he's famous for: great multi tasking, a very intelligent playstyle and all those little things like building the barracks at the mineral line to protect the SCV from drone harass and the awesome supply depot block at the Xel'Naga Tower on Terminus.
On the other hand Sen showed his great macro and great Muta control picking off tanks, drops and marines wherever he could.
This series was so fun to watch, because all the 5 games where close, there were no "lame-ass" 5 minute cheese games, there was no total dominance of the other player throughout a whole game, neither where the games full of big mistakes like the one between Adelscott and qxc. It was two players both capable of beating their opponent, there is no lag discussion (Korea <> Taiwan should be pretty good) and no big balance discussion (TvZ is probably the most balanced matchup right now) and it was pleasant to see BoxeR doing so well against such a strong player as Sen - especially considering his TvZ history in Starcraft 2.
The series was close, the games were entertaining, both players played well and BoxeR showed everybody he's still a force to reckon with.
Thanks to both players for this great series and hopefully we'll see more amazing matchups like that in the next rounds of TSL3.
Majesty
Profile Joined December 2010
Iceland33 Posts
April 18 2011 12:02 GMT
#2
I totally agree.
[.GEGT1337.]Majesty - Calm like a bomb
Zeiryuu
Profile Joined March 2010
Philippines231 Posts
April 18 2011 12:23 GMT
#3
BoxeR vs Sen was definitely one of the best, if not the best, series in TSL3. BoxeR has been performing pretty well and would love to see him in the finals.
timestep
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada73 Posts
April 18 2011 12:27 GMT
#4
This series brought a tear to my eye. It was beautiful.
"whoop whoop whoop whoop" - Dr. Zoidberg
SmoKim
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark10304 Posts
April 18 2011 12:36 GMT
#5
hope BoxeR goes all the way, would truly be amazing TSL story
"LOL I have 202 supply right now (3 minutes later)..."LOL NOW I HAVE 220 SUPPLY SUP?!?!?" - Mondragon
Jojo131
Profile Joined January 2011
Brazil1631 Posts
April 18 2011 12:40 GMT
#6
My only real gripe about this series (from my recollection) is that all the games were pretty much Marine/Tank vs Muta/Ling with some variants here and there. The back and forth action was really fun to see, but every battle felt like:

"Mutaling vs Marine/tank round 1.... FIGHT!"

up until

"Mutaling vs Marine/tank round 7.... can someone switch things up a bit pls?"

I'd say that Mondragon vs Cruncher games were my favorite, if only for the reason that Mondragon has some really cool multi-pronged roach attacks.
Stamper
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany148 Posts
April 18 2011 12:46 GMT
#7
On April 18 2011 21:40 Jojo131 wrote:
My only real gripe about this series (from my recollection) is that all the games were pretty much Marine/Tank vs Muta/Ling with some variants here and there. The back and forth action was really fun to see, but every battle felt like:

"Mutaling vs Marine/tank round 1.... FIGHT!"

up until

"Mutaling vs Marine/tank round 7.... can someone switch things up a bit pls?"


Absolutely.
Generally the series wasn't thaaaaa...at good. It was just good. Solid. Fun to watch. And good to see BoxeR's performing well again. And probably the rest of the TSL matches up to now made it look a lot better than it actually was.
Armathai
Profile Joined October 2007
1023 Posts
April 18 2011 12:49 GMT
#8
Definitely an awesome series! I knew BoxeR vs Sen was going to be amazing just because those two players are both legends and awesome in so many manners!
I woulda said Mondragon vs Cruncher + Show Spoiler +
but cruncher had to cannonrush -.-
but alas it wasn't meant to be!
Looking for ArcticCerebrate formerly from @USEast
Dizzlecto
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Netherlands52 Posts
April 18 2011 12:49 GMT
#9
On April 18 2011 21:40 Jojo131 wrote:
My only real gripe about this series (from my recollection) is that all the games were pretty much Marine/Tank vs Muta/Ling with some variants here and there. The back and forth action was really fun to see, but every battle felt like:

"Mutaling vs Marine/tank round 1.... FIGHT!"

up until

"Mutaling vs Marine/tank round 7.... can someone switch things up a bit pls?"

I'd say that Mondragon vs Cruncher games were my favorite, if only for the reason that Mondragon has some really cool multi-pronged roach attacks.

Mondragon vs Cruncher
Roach/Hydra vs Deathball

etc. etc. you see where im going with this...
Naver doter pro doter
Imperative
Profile Joined January 2011
Singapore22 Posts
April 18 2011 13:12 GMT
#10
Both Boxer and Sen played insanely well in the 5 games. Boxer was relentlessly aggressive and had great positioning as well as multipronged attacks for each game while Senn controlled his forces well and easily handled Boxer's early game pressure. I think both of these players would have deserved to move on to the Ro8 but in the end Boxer made it narrowly so lets see how far he goes (I'm still rooting mainly for MC and thorzain though)
mordek
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States12704 Posts
April 18 2011 13:40 GMT
#11
I would have to agree. I'm glad this was the series I got to see live this weekend. Great play from both players and the action was non-stop. Most of the excitment has to be from the Emporer's great play despite everyone's doubts and it coming down to a deciding 5th game though. Awesome series.
It is vanity to love what passes quickly and not to look ahead where eternal joy abides. Tiberius77 | Mordek #1881 "I took a mint!"
Tumor
Profile Joined July 2010
Austria192 Posts
April 18 2011 13:41 GMT
#12
yes it was awesome! i have to watch it again today, becouse my GF interupted the series very effective. i need at least popcorn XD
lifecanwait
Profile Joined May 2010
96 Posts
April 18 2011 14:23 GMT
#13
Boxer's macro was not perfect? I am not a fan (of anyone), but all I've seen in this match was his perfect macro!
He sent wave after wave at Sen, marines+tanks. Ofc the rallies were not set to near the base, because this way Sen could have intercepted him and cut off his reinforcements.
Combine the macro + all the drop action and I guess Boxer is in a very good state atm. I'd go so far as to say that he can compete with the best once again. He knows everything about good positioning and when to attack or to retreat. This is simply all his BW experience that comes out there...

Sen could have done a few things better though, like getting Infestor + Hive tech units. Banelings aren't good enough when marines stim + run away + split. You need to fungle them asap.
dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today
JinDesu
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3990 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-18 14:30:42
April 18 2011 14:27 GMT
#14
On April 18 2011 21:40 Jojo131 wrote:
My only real gripe about this series (from my recollection) is that all the games were pretty much Marine/Tank vs Muta/Ling with some variants here and there. The back and forth action was really fun to see, but every battle felt like:

"Mutaling vs Marine/tank round 1.... FIGHT!"

up until

"Mutaling vs Marine/tank round 7.... can someone switch things up a bit pls?"

I'd say that Mondragon vs Cruncher games were my favorite, if only for the reason that Mondragon has some really cool multi-pronged roach attacks.


I don't think that can be clearly blamed on the players. Boxer most likely felt that marine tank was the best composition going into late game with Sen, and Sen could only respond with ling, baneling, mutas. If anything, Sen should have included infestors, but that may have been out of his comfort zone.

Maybe given a little more time, we'd see Boxer do what he does in TvT; innovation on the fly. That would be amazing.

On April 18 2011 23:23 lifecanwait wrote:
Boxer's macro was not perfect? I am not a fan (of anyone), but all I've seen in this match was his perfect macro!
He sent wave after wave at Sen, marines+tanks. Ofc the rallies were not set to near the base, because this way Sen could have intercepted him and cut off his reinforcements.
Combine the macro + all the drop action and I guess Boxer is in a very good state atm. I'd go so far as to say that he can compete with the best once again. He knows everything about good positioning and when to attack or to retreat. This is simply all his BW experience that comes out there...

Sen could have done a few things better though, like getting Infestor + Hive tech units. Banelings aren't good enough when marines stim + run away + split. You need to fungle them asap.


Game 5 showed how this intelligent rally would ensure Boxer his win. After failing to break Boxer's middle contain, Sen tried to wipe out reinforcements in the middle of the map with ling/bling/mutas to even the ground while losing his 7'oclock. When his units swung into the middle and waited, it could be seen that boxer's reinforcements were in front of his natural. Sen realized he couldn't pick off the reinforcements moving in one by one, so his last resort was to hit the 4th of Boxer (which would then be fended off by the mass of marines and tanks sitting outside his natural).
Yargh
excal
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada166 Posts
April 18 2011 15:01 GMT
#15
Boxer's macro was far from perfect. He was sitting on 2k minerals at several times during the series.

Well played and i'm glad boxer won though.
Invoker
Profile Joined October 2010
Belgium686 Posts
April 18 2011 15:17 GMT
#16
I can't agree more.
There is no fate, but what we make.
LanTAs
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1091 Posts
April 18 2011 15:33 GMT
#17
On April 18 2011 21:40 Jojo131 wrote:
My only real gripe about this series (from my recollection) is that all the games were pretty much Marine/Tank vs Muta/Ling with some variants here and there. The back and forth action was really fun to see, but every battle felt like:

"Mutaling vs Marine/tank round 1.... FIGHT!"

up until

"Mutaling vs Marine/tank round 7.... can someone switch things up a bit pls?"

I'd say that Mondragon vs Cruncher games were my favorite, if only for the reason that Mondragon has some really cool multi-pronged roach attacks.


hehehehe welcome to TvZ
Marine Tank is used due to the fact that you can sit on your ass and shell out huuuge amounts of damage once you are sieged, and marines destroy mutas once they reach a good number.
Muta/Ling is highly mobile and can pretty much run around tanks and do huuuge harassment style.

so thats a quick explanation of why its always marine tank vs muta ling.
Stamper
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany148 Posts
April 18 2011 15:35 GMT
#18
On April 19 2011 00:01 excal wrote:
Boxer's macro was far from perfect. He was sitting on 2k minerals at several times during the series.

Well played and i'm glad boxer won though.


Especially on Xel Naga he often had just 1 Marine in production while sitting on 1.5k mins and having like 4 Barracks with Reactors.
Logros
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands9913 Posts
April 18 2011 15:47 GMT
#19
Definitely my favorite match so far in the TSL as well. Boxer played so much better than any of the SC2 games I've seen of him so far. I hope he can keep this up in Code A as well.
And it was great to see all the little touches like funky barracks placements at the start and the depot wall for a few marines to secure a watchtower against zerglings. I can't wait to see what he comes up with next!
Roeder
Profile Joined July 2010
Denmark735 Posts
April 18 2011 15:59 GMT
#20
Best series I've ever seen live. Hands down.

It was so exciting.
Starcraft is a mix between chess, poker and a Michael Bay movie.
1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 48m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
JimRising 471
trigger 40
StarCraft: Brood War
firebathero 1511
Shuttle 1076
Stork 379
Larva 350
actioN 305
TY 220
Zeus 210
Soma 104
ToSsGirL 103
PianO 82
[ Show more ]
Mini 64
Nal_rA 54
EffOrt 48
sorry 46
Noble 37
sSak 36
JulyZerg 36
Sharp 34
Rush 32
Sacsri 24
hero 21
Hyuk 18
Barracks 16
IntoTheRainbow 9
ivOry 3
Dota 2
Gorgc1998
XcaliburYe448
XaKoH 404
Fuzer 252
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1214
Other Games
tarik_tv14543
shahzam745
ceh9481
Happy306
crisheroes185
monkeys_forever172
Pyrionflax94
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick33798
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH392
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2180
League of Legends
• HappyZerGling118
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
48m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6h 48m
WardiTV European League
6h 48m
Jumy vs NightPhoenix
Percival vs Nicoract
ArT vs HiGhDrA
MaxPax vs Harstem
Scarlett vs Shameless
SKillous vs uThermal
Replay Cast
14h 48m
RSL Revival
1d
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs Reynor
OSC
1d 3h
Replay Cast
1d 14h
RSL Revival
2 days
Classic vs Cure
FEL
2 days
OSC
2 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
3 days
FEL
3 days
FEL
3 days
CSO Cup
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
FEL
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-07-07
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.