I know I'm biased because of my man crush for MC, but if he says the toss was going to lose, the toss was going to lose.

Regardless, this wasn't a decision that was taken lightly, and I commend TL for such an open and honest review on the situation.

GrimReefer

United States442 Posts

March 20 2011 03:15 GMT

#683

" "Absolutely won" means that the player had the game won beyond all reasonable doubt and had an "absolute advantage." "
From Nazgul's opening post

I've read at least 10 pages of this thread and while some people claim it should be a regame, no one can give a reasonable way for protoss to win this one. The only thing i can think of is if he went zealot, immortal and boxer massed marauders; but that doesn't account for the 4-5 minutes protoss would need to pull something like that off.
TL sets the rules at the beginning and they should be followed. The rule is reasonable doubt, and in this situation there can be none. 3 experts have testified there is no way for protoss to win this. There is a dissent but he was vetoed beforehand, his comments however interesting they may be have no weight.

A few things about the rules:

they don't specify a specific number of vetoes a player is allowed. you may want to put in a limit. keeping it to 1-2 vetoes per player keeps the judge pool small. 10 judges would be a really safe number.

I agree there should be some stipulation about players in the tournament not being the judges. If you try to expand that too far and think about all the relationships players have between each other and their teams, it would be too muddy. Those relationships are what the vetoes are for. If you think the pool could be too muddy, up the number of vetoes and up the number of judges to choose from.

I disagree with the first rule about DC's. the one where if a player that is behind dc's it's an auto-loss. if the DC is not the player's fault, it shouldn't cost them the game unless like in rule 3 the was already decided beyond all reasonable doubt. (this would only be for on-site tourneys, obviously commuter style would have to keep the rule the way it is)

I had something else but i got distracted and lost my train of thought.

(and yes i made an account just to make this post :p )

Bagi

Germany6799 Posts

March 20 2011 03:15 GMT

#684

Thumbs up for all the professionalism that lead to the decision.

TheMango

United States1967 Posts

March 20 2011 03:22 GMT

#685

On March 20 2011 09:54 Hellspawnl wrote:

Show nested quote +

For me it was obvious that it was staged and that Day[9] and Chill knew about it. I could of course be wrong but that was very clear to me. =D

I can assure you that it was not staged. DJWheat was literally dropped into the TeamSpeak channel where the casters were to deliver the message. The casters were not even forewarned about the disconnect for Game 1 in that series.

vanwilder

United States12 Posts

March 20 2011 03:25 GMT

#686

I wonder if Nightend would have been in a better position if he had more then 2 guys on 2/6 of his gases.

Sworn

Canada920 Posts

March 20 2011 03:25 GMT

#687

Wow this was handled so well imo. The simulations, panel and everything proves beyond a resonable doubt that boxer deserved to win this game.

Weaponx3

Canada232 Posts

March 20 2011 03:36 GMT

#688

TL For president, there adminstartion of the issue was immaculate.

Canucklehead

Canada5074 Posts

March 20 2011 03:50 GMT

#689

Should have got idra as a judge as he has the ultimate gg timing! Plus he off races as protoss too, so if he said he would have gg there or close to it, then that's the final word.

Chill

Calgary26003 Posts

March 20 2011 03:58 GMT

#690

On March 20 2011 09:54 Hellspawnl wrote:

Show nested quote +

For me it was obvious that it was staged and that Day[9] and Chill knew about it. I could of course be wrong but that was very clear to me. =D

LOL why do people keep making up wild statements like this every TSL? When Boxer left I couldn't figure out what the fuck happened and when Wheat started talking all I could think about was "Why the fuck is Wheat talking?"

Veritas.13

United States48 Posts

March 20 2011 04:03 GMT

#691

I agree with the choice. When i first saw this I screamed at my computer and I was casting the game myself to a friend (we had only headphones so I casted to a non starcraft playing person) When the drop happened around the nineteen minute mark my cast was brutally interrupted and I had absolutely no way to explain this because on the screen it said that he had "left the game" I run and get my headphones on and hear the explanation by day9 and chill who were equally stunned. Once the situation was assessed my friend protests the call made by the panel saying that they had no idea who would have won. Yes from a non starcraft players viewpoint there was not overwhelming evidence to support this choice. Yes the choice was correct and it took me awhile to explain it but my only question is that if non starcraft players want to watch and see this happen there should be some way to start the game over again to make it more fair and to draw more non SC'ers into the game. I do not know the mechanics of battle net but is there not a way to either save the match or simulate the exact scenario using a map editor of some sort to play the game out if there was not a clear winner.

I know this choice was correct but my intentions in this question are to just help the starcraft community grow and prosper in the west. Veritas 157

eyzn

3 Posts

March 20 2011 04:06 GMT

#692

Nice job with the test-scenario Liquid`Nazgul!

Also i like that you (TL-staff) are trying to explain everything. I think you managed the situation very well *thumbsup*.

I don't like how you tell people how they have to respond in this thread though.

intrigue

Washington, D.C9935 Posts

March 20 2011 04:15 GMT

#693

On March 20 2011 13:06 eyzn wrote:
Nice job with the test-scenario Liquid`Nazgul!

Also i like that you (TL-staff) are trying to explain everything. I think you managed the situation very well *thumbsup*.

I don't like how you tell people how they have to respond in this thread though.

do you think asking for informed and constructive comments is unreasonable?

GBleezy

United States11 Posts

March 20 2011 04:16 GMT

#694

Good post! I think this post is much better than I expected it was going to be when DJ Wheat said this is where to come, I was pleasantly surprised! I also think the panel of 3 handled their role stupendously and I really enjoyed reading their professionally theory-crafted analysis's(idk plural for analysis) as they appeared to have taken their role on such a panel as serious and professional as I had expected. I think it's unfortunate a disconnect of this magnitude had taken place, but glad to see such a rare situation handled as definitively as this...As I watched I was thinking there really should be a rematch because the possibility of a comeback should never be out of the question in ANY SPORT in my opinion, but I can not argue with the responses and information provided in the original post here...nice work!

PS. I think this reflected most on the situation concerning lag for this kind of international tourney! I think THAT is the most unfair thing for both players and that that is what has come to be the biggest issue resulting from this particular game...

DharmaTurtle

United States283 Posts

March 20 2011 04:27 GMT

#695

Incredible analysis by the three panelists. I appreciate how seriously they took their duty. Personally I think a consensus by 5 panelists will be much, much, much harder to reach than one by 3, but hopefully this will never happen again.

eyzn

3 Posts

March 20 2011 04:28 GMT

#696

On March 20 2011 13:15 intrigue wrote:

Show nested quote +

do you think asking for informed and constructive comments is unreasonable?

talking about openess and telling people what they are allowed to do is kind of mutually exclusive

maybe i am overreacting, the red line makes me nervous :p (sorry for the noise)

leandroqm

Netherlands874 Posts

March 20 2011 04:43 GMT

#697

I still think they should restart the game but that's just because I wanted to see more games today xD

Defacer

Canada5052 Posts

March 20 2011 05:01 GMT

#698

On March 20 2011 12:09 Kazzabiss wrote:
lol BoxeR, clutch veto

LOL.

The Emperor does everything amazing except macro. Even is veto'ing skills are off the chain.

rust.oxide

United States94 Posts

March 20 2011 05:04 GMT

#699

On March 20 2011 13:28 eyzn wrote:

Show nested quote +

talking about openess and telling people what they are allowed to do is kind of mutually exclusive

maybe i am overreacting, the red line makes me nervous :p (sorry for the noise)

They are not mutually exclusive. TL staff is merely asking that people disattach their emotions from the situation, think rationally, and discuss this in a composed manner.

This should be how people always handle themselves in any awkward situation and when discussing the results of an official calling.

Defacer

Canada5052 Posts

March 20 2011 05:05 GMT

#700

I forgot to commend TL on the way they made the decision, and the thoughtfulness of the panel.

That simulation put a big smile on my face. It's reminded me of those reenactments of the Kennedy assassin to see on TV; trying to figure out if Lee Harvey Oswald could have gotten a shot off.