|
8748 Posts
A lot of TSL fans have come to expect a post-match rundown by the winner of each match. Because of my botched interview (SC2's mic settings fault) I didn't get to do this for my latest match. I've had a number of people ask me about the games, especially game 2, so I'm gonna write down some quick comments.
Game 1: lucky probe scouting on his core-before-zealot build leads to an opportunity for zealot harrass, which was successful, which leads to pressure on JF to have a flawless reaver/goon battle to get back in the game. I didn't give any ground in the first reaver/goon battle, so I'm ahead economically, letting me get shuttle speed and pump out a good number of goons
Game 2: My 2gate goon obs build, with good micro and knowledge of timings, counters DT builds and quick expansion builds. As soon as I saw the number of goons and zealots he had when I met him in the middle, I should have retreated, put a citadel down, went right up my ramp and gone straight for DT's. I believe that response would have at least put me back even with him, if not giving me an advantage or winning me the game. I was aware of this kind of gameplan but I just didn't do it. See my sig  I tried to reaver harrass but he had goons on defense. When I first crossed my bridges, I wasn't expecting him to be containing me. I sent everything out on a move command and didn't watch them go. I didn't expect him to be there because I felt like it was too early for him to do that. If I had continued to try to harrass, I definitely could have done some damage to punish him for going for a contain at that point. But I didn't so the game was pretty much over. The 2nd shuttle suicide was just a misclick. There wasn't anything left to do, gg
Game 3: I was expecting him to either take one of his back expansions early or to go for speed shuttle off 1 base. Once I saw what he was doing, it was just going to be a straight up old-fashioned goon/reaver battle. My units had better positioning. With the positioning set up, I just have to babysit my reavers and wait for the moment when I want my goons to attack his shuttle. At the end of the battle I'll have more goons because of better positioning, so I trade my goons for his shuttle/reavers while I keep my shuttle/reavers.
Game 4: This one was interesting as I'm sure nobody caught exactly on to what my thought process was. Tasteless did recognize that I was shifting my build around when I was still on one base. What happened was I was planning to do my standard 2gate robo, obs reaver nexus reaver shuttle build. But I had a probe scout him and it saw 3 goons and 1 zealot outside his natural and it certainly seemed like the goons didn't have range. No range = DT. So I shifted my build to go for a quick kill against a DT build. Then I got some more info and realized he wasn't going DT at all. So I continued my original build, except it wasn't nearly as efficient as it's supposed to be. I could have had a nice advantage from builds going into the mid-game but I didn't. It seemed pretty even. So my gameplan was to get a ton of goons and continuously make reavers/shuttles out of robo. Once I had 2 shuttle 4 reaver, I went to go poke around at his front. If it looked bad for me, I would've zipped my shuttles around to bombard his 3rd or his main. But the positioning felt good to me because his reavers were a bit too far behind his goons.
|
Thanks was looking forward for this  , GL in the finals and hope to see some more streaming in the near future
|
Thanks for taking the time to write up your feelings, you really think about the fans =)
|
United States12607 Posts
Thanks NonY, interesting read! GOOD LUCK IN THE FINALS!!
|
Thanks Nony. I was wondering about the fk up on game 2  Still awesome series. Thanks for the self interview! hah
|
Thanks for the write up, game 2 looked a lot worse than it sounds
|
I was wondering how in each game you won you were confident enough to attack. Maybe it's just because my PvP is so bad, but you were able to finish those games super quickly.
Good luck in the finals. I'm rooting for you.
|
Good stuff, your knowledge of timings and builds amazes me. GL in the finals, I'll be happy whatever the outcome.
|
i love you even more than ret! thanks man. gl in the finals. don't take it easy cause mondy will be tuff!
i root for a good series.
|
|
|
|
|
Although it's nice to have an analysis, from an exterior point of view, the only thing which happened is that Nony outplayed JF on every level. His micro was fifteen times better, his game sense was fifteen times better, his mechanics were fifteen times better and his scouting was fifteen times better.
Then he fucked up massively in game 2.
I was rooting for JF and from the first second of the first game, I got scared for him because compared to Nony, he looked incredibly fragile.
I'm expecting such an awesome final. Also, it will be nice not to have a mirror matchup.
|
Thanks for this! Been wanting to hear about that game 2 for a long time now I feel.
|
Just finish this TSL already so we can watch you play S2 beta! Good luck in the finals!
|
Thank you very much NonY. I was really anticipating the interview :O Best of luck on the finals!
|
Great, finally! Nony is a bonjwa
|
Always interesting to learn the thoughts during the games. Thanks for doing this and GL in the finals!
|
thank you for the read, nony
GOODLUCK IN THE FINALS!
|
How come you can't pronounce your own ID?
|
thanks for the writeup. interesting read.
i'm cheering for you in the finals whooooo
|
I think JF was just really unfortunate in most of the matches..
|
i dont think jf was unfortunate but rather fortunate enough to get to the semifinals as he did. This is totally not the same JF that won the last TSL =p so the games were more one sided as i viewed them. I knew nony would take the series anyways hehehe =D
|
On February 23 2010 17:21 OhThatDang wrote:
i dont think jf was unfortunate but rather fortunate enough to get to the semifinals as he did. This is totally not the same JF that won the last TSL =p so the games were more one sided as i viewed them. I knew nony would take the series anyways hehehe =D
Agree, but I wouldn't say he didn't deserve his victory over White Ra. When it comes to mind game, he is still quite an awesome players, but he has lost his control and his legendary reaver micro.
But overall, yeah, not the same player anymore.
|
On February 23 2010 19:45 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2010 17:21 OhThatDang wrote:
i dont think jf was unfortunate but rather fortunate enough to get to the semifinals as he did. This is totally not the same JF that won the last TSL =p so the games were more one sided as i viewed them. I knew nony would take the series anyways hehehe =D
Agree, but I wouldn't say he didn't deserve his victory over White Ra. When it comes to mind game, he is still quite an awesome players, but he has lost his control and his legendary reaver micro. But overall, yeah, not the same player anymore.
hehe after reading what i wrote i feel bad=[
|
yea thanks NonY, gl in the finals bro, hope u will make it.
|
|
|
Thanks Nony for the explanation, gl in the finals
|
|
|
On February 23 2010 17:21 OhThatDang wrote:
i dont think jf was unfortunate but rather fortunate enough to get to the semifinals as he did. This is totally not the same JF that won the last TSL =p so the games were more one sided as i viewed them. I knew nony would take the series anyways hehehe =D
I would agree here. JF was playing bad especially compared to his other TSL run. His old TSL run showcased awesome builds, solid macro, and amazing Reaver micro. In this run I felt his builds were not as good, his Reaver micro was subpar and then his Macro was getting up to 1000+ early on.
I was honestly very disappointed that TL seeded so many players into the money. Look at Draco, he was guaranteed Ro16+250$ and didn't even practice for his matches then got rolled 3-0 by SEn in horrendous games.
Although, I will say. I didn't think nony would actually practice but as soon as he said he did I knew he would win. Even though I am a Zerg I have always loved NonY and Infernal for showcasing sexy and amazing PvZ and insanely well thought out strategy's and builds.
|
what? why the hell wouldn't he practice for a shot at 10k
|
thanks. you are clever player, hopefully you write more of these after you've played vs mondragon in the finals
|
Game four was pretty intense, that helps
good luck NonY
|
Thx a lot for this, nice read, especially about game 4.
Tbh I felt a disappointed when I watched that game cause I thought "ugh why is JF taking so long to bring his freaking reavers to the front" cause besides that his army was really in a superior position. (Not that I was particularly rooting for JF but I felt like he shouldnt lose like that /woulda preferred a game 5) But oh well, if anyone deserves to be in the finals it's you. I'll be rooting for mondragon in the finals (German Zerg player rooting for Mondragon, big surprise) but really I won't be too upset if he loses either, as long as the games are good, which I'm sure they will be.
I'm even happy you're in the finals even though that lost me 40$ to Zephyr ^^
Nony and Mondragon fighting, this will be the greatest finals foreign Brood War has ever witnessed.
|
Good read! Thx for taking the time Nony
|
thanks! gl with the finals, hoping for a series more epic than bisu/jd w/o a game 5 fuck up.
i forgive you for game 2. taking it 3-0 would have made me go into shock.
|
United States4991 Posts
On February 24 2010 04:15 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2010 17:21 OhThatDang wrote:
i dont think jf was unfortunate but rather fortunate enough to get to the semifinals as he did. This is totally not the same JF that won the last TSL =p so the games were more one sided as i viewed them. I knew nony would take the series anyways hehehe =D
I was honestly very disappointed that TL seeded so many players into the money. Look at Draco, he was guaranteed Ro16+250$ and didn't even practice for his matches then got rolled 3-0 by SEn in horrendous games.
Draco got 2nd in the last TSL, to not have seeded to some extent would've been silly
Look at how the other two seeded players did:
JF - Top 4 (possible 3rd), defeated GosI[Terran] and White-Ra on the way (both very good players, and White-Ra is like the perennial top non-Korean Protoss)
Brat_OK - Knocked out by Mondragon, who either wins TSL or gets 2nd place.
Brat_OK got a bit unlucky on who he played (like Xiaozi got unlucky running into IdrA right away), but one can hardly claim that JF's run was bad or that he didn't show that he still can compete with the best.
Additionally, the other player who had some level of seeding from the last TSL is NonY, who is now top 2 and has a chance to win the whole TSL.
|
You have good pvp
The PvT vs Idra was mad cheesy though
|
On February 24 2010 13:54 Insane wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2010 04:15 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On February 23 2010 17:21 OhThatDang wrote:
i dont think jf was unfortunate but rather fortunate enough to get to the semifinals as he did. This is totally not the same JF that won the last TSL =p so the games were more one sided as i viewed them. I knew nony would take the series anyways hehehe =D
I was honestly very disappointed that TL seeded so many players into the money. Look at Draco, he was guaranteed Ro16+250$ and didn't even practice for his matches then got rolled 3-0 by SEn in horrendous games. Draco got 2nd in the last TSL, to not have seeded to some extent would've been silly Look at how the other two seeded players did: JF - Top 4 (possible 3rd), defeated GosI[Terran] and White-Ra on the way (both very good players, and White-Ra is like the perennial top non-Korean Protoss) Brat_OK - Knocked out by Mondragon, who either wins TSL or gets 2nd place. Brat_OK got a bit unlucky on who he played (like Xiaozi got unlucky running into IdrA right away), but one can hardly claim that JF's run was bad or that he didn't show that he still can compete with the best. Additionally, the other player who had some level of seeding from the last TSL is NonY, who is now top 2 and has a chance to win the whole TSL.
But at the same time Draco should hardly have been seeded in a position where he is making money because he did well in a tournament years ago.
|
On February 23 2010 12:58 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
How come you can't pronounce your own ID?
He might think Noony sounds better
But congratulations on advancing to the finals! I haven't watched Mondragon VS Sen yet so i don't know who you are facing (gonna watch it now). I hope your facing Mondragon cause hes one of my favorite foreigners along with you, would be a epic match
|
On February 24 2010 19:33 KinosJourney2 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2010 12:58 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
How come you can't pronounce your own ID? He might think Noony sounds better
Well what does nony even mean?
Oh look what I found
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nony
Nony is like quarter polish or something right?
so it seems that Nony is the 9th day of a month before full moon.... hmm...
|
On February 24 2010 17:37 Fatmatt2000 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2010 13:54 Insane wrote:On February 24 2010 04:15 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On February 23 2010 17:21 OhThatDang wrote:
i dont think jf was unfortunate but rather fortunate enough to get to the semifinals as he did. This is totally not the same JF that won the last TSL =p so the games were more one sided as i viewed them. I knew nony would take the series anyways hehehe =D
I was honestly very disappointed that TL seeded so many players into the money. Look at Draco, he was guaranteed Ro16+250$ and didn't even practice for his matches then got rolled 3-0 by SEn in horrendous games. Draco got 2nd in the last TSL, to not have seeded to some extent would've been silly Look at how the other two seeded players did: JF - Top 4 (possible 3rd), defeated GosI[Terran] and White-Ra on the way (both very good players, and White-Ra is like the perennial top non-Korean Protoss) Brat_OK - Knocked out by Mondragon, who either wins TSL or gets 2nd place. Brat_OK got a bit unlucky on who he played (like Xiaozi got unlucky running into IdrA right away), but one can hardly claim that JF's run was bad or that he didn't show that he still can compete with the best. Additionally, the other player who had some level of seeding from the last TSL is NonY, who is now top 2 and has a chance to win the whole TSL. But at the same time Draco should hardly have been seeded in a position where he is making money because he did well in a tournament years ago.
Whats your IQ ? ( no offense )
|
Last time he was 1 game from being the first... he just retired for good this time, too bad that during TSL not some time after. Shit happens.
|
On February 24 2010 17:13 Foucault wrote:
The PvT vs Idra was mad cheesy though
You say this like it was a bad thing.
Go Nony!
|
awesome, thanks a lot, good luck in the finals, i'm hoping for some good games
|
|
|
u da best nony. good luck in the finals!
|
On February 24 2010 19:45 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2010 19:33 KinosJourney2 wrote:On February 23 2010 12:58 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
How come you can't pronounce your own ID? He might think Noony sounds better Well what does nony even mean? Oh look what I found http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/NonyNony is like quarter polish or something right? so it seems that Nony is the 9th day of a month before full moon.... hmm...
He said a while back in an interview it was a childhood nick-name iirc.
|
i hope im not too late to this party. i noticed you went 2 gate before robo on the destination game which got me wondering. what decides whether you add the second gate or the robo first? as i understand it, 1 gate robo is more common but i suppose 2 gate would be a bit safer vs early aggression. That being said, i thought destination wasnt very conducive to rushes and the difference in the timings also doesnt seem to be that big. are there other factors to consider?
More importantly though, good luck in the finals!
|
8748 Posts
On February 27 2010 07:31 etch wrote:
i hope im not too late to this party. i noticed you went 2 gate before robo on the destination game which got me wondering. what decides whether you add the second gate or the robo first? as i understand it, 1 gate robo is more common but i suppose 2 gate would be a bit safer vs early aggression. That being said, i thought destination wasnt very conducive to rushes and the difference in the timings also doesnt seem to be that big. are there other factors to consider?
More importantly though, good luck in the finals!
destination was one of my courage maps and this 2gate build is one that i practiced a lot with great success. like i said in the OP, it counters 1gate expansion builds. it's like this: when i have 1 zealot and 4 goons outside his bridges, i try to cross. if he has 3 goons, he's going DT and i attack, if he has 4 goons, he's on 1gate and probably expanding, i wait to have 6 goons and attack (he'll only have 5), if he has 5 goons he's on 2gate or more, i retreat behind my bridges or up my ramp.
the micro when crossing the bridges is a bit of a unique technique that i dont think people knew before desti and people havent used after desti. i happened to practice it a lot and know how it works so that having a 1 goon advantage is enough for me to bust someone even while im crossing.
doing 2gate robo with the order of gateway robo gateway is not a rush build. it's kinda a nothing build. it has tricky uses and most people dont bother with it. going 2gate robo with gate gate robo is really just a safe goon rush. its goal is usually to delay the opponent's expansion. but if they go all in trying to defend their expansion, it can win the game.
|
i love learning little nuances about the game but theres still so much i dont know :/ thanks a lot!
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
