• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:45
CEST 09:45
KST 16:45
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun12[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists22[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9
Community News
RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event4Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results02026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25Maestros of the Game 2 announced92026 GSL Tour plans announced15
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool MaNa leaves Team Liquid
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) SC2 INu's Battles#15 <BO.9 2Matches> WardiTV Spring Cup SEL Masters #6 - Solar vs Classic (SC: Evo)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Pros React To: Leta vs Tulbo (ASL S21, Ro.8) [BSL22] RO16 Group A - Sunday 21:00 CEST [BSL22] RO16 Group B - Saturday 21:00 CEST
Tourneys
[BSL22] RO16 Group Stage - 02 - 10 May Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro8 Day 2
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Daigo vs Menard Best of 10 Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Diablo IV
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread 3D technology/software discussion Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sexual Health Of Gamers
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1694 users

TSL Ladder Standings - Page 110

Forum Index > TSL2 Forum
Post a Reply
Prev 1 108 109 110 111 112 176 Next
purgerinho
Profile Joined June 2008
Croatia919 Posts
December 09 2009 23:56 GMT
#2181
i'm speaking about ideal situation - chinese players without lag... f91 is without it but i don't know why he would stopped
SUMMARIZED (by DeMu): You CANNOT surprise a top level Protoss with a build
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
December 09 2009 23:59 GMT
#2182
Cloud is Top 48 now! Fuck yeah! :D
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
Guybrush
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
Spain4744 Posts
December 10 2009 00:16 GMT
#2183
Insane fierce competition right now. A couple of days ago the cut was at 8800, now it's at 9200.
Live2Win is awesome. Happy new year scarabi!
igotmyown
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4291 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-10 01:49:51
December 10 2009 00:41 GMT
#2184
On December 10 2009 04:25 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2009 03:01 igotmyown wrote:

On December 09 2009 21:22 MaGic~PhiL wrote:
As I already said a few times..
It just depends on how much kolll is going to play..

If he plays as much as he can and really can play hardcore the next day he will even make top 12

I dont doubt his skills a single bit.. All will come down to how much he plays..


If Koll averages a 2/3 win ratio (and don't say WTF he's much better than that... Idra has a 68% win ratio and Koll currently has a 72%, and the first 30 to 40 games don't really count), Koll will average 40 points per game and need to play 30 games in the next day to make top 12 as it currently is.

He's currently 50% at A-. If he wins 60%, he'll need a little under 50 games to make top 12.

Your conclusion should be something like "if he plays 50 games and wins 60%, he'll make the top 12"

Saying he'll need 50 games at a 60% win rate fails to take into account the probability of a win streak.


Fine.

Probability he wins in n games at 60% win ratio: games required is (1200+140*n)/270
s.d.=sqrt(n*.6*.4)
+ Show Spoiler +

ARRAY([15 .. 50],[(15) = .55e-1, (16) = .45e-1, (17) = .67e-1, (18) = .81e-1, (19) = .81e-1, (20) = .81e-1, (21) = .18, (22) = .97e-1, (23) = .19, (24) = .12, (25) = .20, (26) = .21, (27) = .21, (28) = .22, (29) = .22, (30) = .23, (31) = .23, (32) = .24, (33) = .24, (34) = .25, (35) = .25, (36) = .37, (37) = .25, (38) = .37, (39) = .26, (40) = .37, (41) = .37, (42) = .38, (43) = .38, (44) = .38, (45) = .38, (46) = .50, (47) = .39, (48) = .50, (49) = .39, (50) = .50])

If he quits early, then I think we have to use markov chains, and I have to relook that up.
edit: using markov chains probability he wins in <=n games,
+ Show Spoiler +

ARRAY([12 .. 50],[(12) = .22e-2, (13) = .22e-2, (14) = .84e-2, (15) = .84e-2, (16) = .20e-1, (17) = .20e-1, (18) = .36e-1, (19) = .36e-1, (20) = .57e-1, (21) = .57e-1, (22) = .82e-1, (23) = .82e-1, (24) = .11, (25) = .11, (26) = .14, (27) = .14, (28) = .17, (29) = .17, (30) = .21, (31) = .21, (32) = .24, (33) = .24, (34) = .27, (35) = .27, (36) = .31, (37) = .31, (38) = .34, (39) = .34, (40) = .37, (41) = .37, (42) = .40, (43) = .40, (44) = .43, (45) = .43, (46) = .46, (47) = .46, (48) = .49, (49) = .49, (50) = .51])

Probability he hits B- and quits TSL/changes strategies.
+ Show Spoiler +

ARRAY([12 .. 50],[(12) = .36e-3, (13) = .36e-3, (14) = .75e-3, (15) = .75e-3, (16) = .13e-2, (17) = .13e-2, (18) = .18e-2, (19) = .18e-2, (20) = .25e-2, (21) = .25e-2, (22) = .32e-2, (23) = .32e-2, (24) = .39e-2, (25) = .39e-2, (26) = .46e-2, (27) = .46e-2, (28) = .52e-2, (29) = .52e-2, (30) = .59e-2, (31) = .59e-2, (32) = .66e-2, (33) = .66e-2, (34) = .72e-2, (35) = .72e-2, (36) = .78e-2, (37) = .78e-2, (38) = .83e-2, (39) = .83e-2, (40) = .89e-2, (41) = .89e-2, (42) = .94e-2, (43) = .94e-2, (44) = .98e-2, (45) = .98e-2, (46) = .10e-1, (47) = .10e-1, (48) = .11e-1, (49) = .11e-1, (50) = .11e-1])
vanTuni
Profile Joined October 2009
389 Posts
December 10 2009 01:05 GMT
#2185
^ i totally got that.
AraqirG
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States266 Posts
December 10 2009 01:22 GMT
#2186
boo math! First person to post a TSL in-game ceremony gets a digital cookie!
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8751 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-10 01:25:46
December 10 2009 01:25 GMT
#2187
On December 10 2009 09:41 igotmyown wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2009 04:25 Liquid`NonY wrote:
On December 10 2009 03:01 igotmyown wrote:

On December 09 2009 21:22 MaGic~PhiL wrote:
As I already said a few times..
It just depends on how much kolll is going to play..

If he plays as much as he can and really can play hardcore the next day he will even make top 12

I dont doubt his skills a single bit.. All will come down to how much he plays..


If Koll averages a 2/3 win ratio (and don't say WTF he's much better than that... Idra has a 68% win ratio and Koll currently has a 72%, and the first 30 to 40 games don't really count), Koll will average 40 points per game and need to play 30 games in the next day to make top 12 as it currently is.

He's currently 50% at A-. If he wins 60%, he'll need a little under 50 games to make top 12.

Your conclusion should be something like "if he plays 50 games and wins 60%, he'll make the top 12"

Saying he'll need 50 games at a 60% win rate fails to take into account the probability of a win streak.


Fine.

Probability he wins in n games at 60% win ratio: games required is (1200+140*n)/270
s.d.=sqrt(n*.6*.4)
+ Show Spoiler +

ARRAY([15 .. 50],[(15) = .55e-1, (16) = .45e-1, (17) = .67e-1, (18) = .81e-1, (19) = .81e-1, (20) = .81e-1, (21) = .18, (22) = .97e-1, (23) = .19, (24) = .12, (25) = .20, (26) = .21, (27) = .21, (28) = .22, (29) = .22, (30) = .23, (31) = .23, (32) = .24, (33) = .24, (34) = .25, (35) = .25, (36) = .37, (37) = .25, (38) = .37, (39) = .26, (40) = .37, (41) = .37, (42) = .38, (43) = .38, (44) = .38, (45) = .38, (46) = .50, (47) = .39, (48) = .50, (49) = .39, (50) = .50])

If he quits early, then I think we have to use markov chains, and I have to relook that up.

haha i dont think math is going to cut it because there are too many variables that influence streaks that we can't define. if he found one tilting idiot, he could get 500+ points in a hurry. even without tilt, there are a lot of cases of pairs of similarly skilled players with lopsided results between them. if he played 1000 games against a huge sample of A- players and won 60% of them, there'd definitely be many cases of 90%+ win rates against individuals. i'm not sure how many 1000's of games of bw you have played, but if not many, then you probably havent observed this yourself, but you might be able to see some evidence of this by browsing match lists.
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
Amnesia
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3818 Posts
December 10 2009 01:54 GMT
#2188
I wonder if Yan will last in TSL with all those short games lol
igotmyown
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4291 Posts
December 10 2009 01:55 GMT
#2189
On December 10 2009 10:25 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2009 09:41 igotmyown wrote:
On December 10 2009 04:25 Liquid`NonY wrote:
On December 10 2009 03:01 igotmyown wrote:

On December 09 2009 21:22 MaGic~PhiL wrote:
As I already said a few times..
It just depends on how much kolll is going to play..

If he plays as much as he can and really can play hardcore the next day he will even make top 12

I dont doubt his skills a single bit.. All will come down to how much he plays..


If Koll averages a 2/3 win ratio (and don't say WTF he's much better than that... Idra has a 68% win ratio and Koll currently has a 72%, and the first 30 to 40 games don't really count), Koll will average 40 points per game and need to play 30 games in the next day to make top 12 as it currently is.

He's currently 50% at A-. If he wins 60%, he'll need a little under 50 games to make top 12.

Your conclusion should be something like "if he plays 50 games and wins 60%, he'll make the top 12"

Saying he'll need 50 games at a 60% win rate fails to take into account the probability of a win streak.


Fine.

Probability he wins in n games at 60% win ratio: games required is (1200+140*n)/270
s.d.=sqrt(n*.6*.4)
+ Show Spoiler +

ARRAY([15 .. 50],[(15) = .55e-1, (16) = .45e-1, (17) = .67e-1, (18) = .81e-1, (19) = .81e-1, (20) = .81e-1, (21) = .18, (22) = .97e-1, (23) = .19, (24) = .12, (25) = .20, (26) = .21, (27) = .21, (28) = .22, (29) = .22, (30) = .23, (31) = .23, (32) = .24, (33) = .24, (34) = .25, (35) = .25, (36) = .37, (37) = .25, (38) = .37, (39) = .26, (40) = .37, (41) = .37, (42) = .38, (43) = .38, (44) = .38, (45) = .38, (46) = .50, (47) = .39, (48) = .50, (49) = .39, (50) = .50])

If he quits early, then I think we have to use markov chains, and I have to relook that up.

haha i dont think math is going to cut it because there are too many variables that influence streaks that we can't define. if he found one tilting idiot, he could get 500+ points in a hurry. even without tilt, there are a lot of cases of pairs of similarly skilled players with lopsided results between them. if he played 1000 games against a huge sample of A- players and won 60% of them, there'd definitely be many cases of 90%+ win rates against individuals. i'm not sure how many 1000's of games of bw you have played, but if not many, then you probably havent observed this yourself, but you might be able to see some evidence of this by browsing match lists.


You said probability of a win streak, not chance of a win streak.

And I quit :-)
FiWiFaKi
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada9859 Posts
December 10 2009 02:39 GMT
#2190
On December 10 2009 10:54 Amnesia wrote:
I wonder if Yan will last in TSL with all those short games lol


Yan knows how to play really well... I think he can adapt a 1v1 style... I've seen him lay late game too and it isn't half bad.
In life, the journey is more satisfying than the destination. || .::Entrepreneurship::. Living a few years of your life like most people won't, so that you can spend the rest of your life like most people can't || Mechanical Engineering & Economics Major
Straylight
Profile Joined March 2008
Canada706 Posts
December 10 2009 05:03 GMT
#2191
You people and your math. What a downer.
It felt like gravity.
integral
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3161 Posts
December 10 2009 05:09 GMT
#2192
Hey look, Mamon is likely in now. And he only played 690 games to do it!
motbob
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States12546 Posts
December 10 2009 05:18 GMT
#2193
4 out of the top 5 are Terrans. That probably tells you something about Fighting Spirit.
ModeratorGood content always wins.
Ver
Profile Joined October 2008
United States2186 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-10 05:41:02
December 10 2009 05:40 GMT
#2194
I wish

Well it is most certainly better than hbr for T.
Liquipedia
Pyrthas
Profile Joined March 2007
United States3196 Posts
December 10 2009 05:58 GMT
#2195
Come on Eriador you can do it!

Also, to echo Holgerius: Good to see Cloud in the top 48.
LaughingTulkas
Profile Joined March 2008
United States1107 Posts
December 10 2009 06:08 GMT
#2196
On December 10 2009 14:09 integral wrote:
Hey look, Mamon is likely in now. And he only played 690 games to do it!


If nothing else, the most dedicated player :D Would be awesome if he actually qualified. What a story! eSPN would be all over that.
"I love noobies, they're so happy." -Chill
JohannesH
Profile Joined September 2009
Finland1364 Posts
December 10 2009 06:44 GMT
#2197
On December 10 2009 14:18 motbob wrote:
4 out of the top 5 are Terrans. That probably tells you something about Fighting Spirit.

To put things to perspective, 11 out of the top 48 are Terrans.
If you have to ask, you don't know.
integral
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3161 Posts
December 10 2009 07:38 GMT
#2198
Why mamon kept playing I don't know, 9800 would've definitely been enough.
BMSL
Profile Joined December 2009
Ukraine19 Posts
December 10 2009 07:40 GMT
#2199
Nice try by White-Ra: he played few games to A+ and even olympic. He lost all of them :\ lossing about 500 points in tilt, but anyway good practise.
integral
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3161 Posts
December 10 2009 07:46 GMT
#2200
Incontrol on tilt too, I recall him having ~9600 the other day. Almost certainly would've been enough.
Prev 1 108 109 110 111 112 176 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 15m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Horang2 1480
firebathero 448
Zeus 300
Shine 300
PianO 224
Aegong 110
Backho 63
ToSsGirL 59
Hm[arnc] 34
Killer 26
[ Show more ]
910 14
scan(afreeca) 13
ZergMaN 12
JulyZerg 8
Dewaltoss 4
NotJumperer 0
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm172
League of Legends
JimRising 635
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1578
edward36
Other Games
summit1g6115
WinterStarcraft637
monkeys_forever308
C9.Mang0304
Sick261
Happy260
crisheroes64
ToD33
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick793
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream81
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 41
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Sammyuel 46
• Adnapsc2 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade870
• Stunt536
• Jankos243
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
1h 15m
RSL Revival
2h 15m
Classic vs GgMaChine
Rogue vs Maru
WardiTV Invitational
3h 15m
Percival vs Shameless
ByuN vs YoungYakov
SC Evo League
6h 15m
IPSL
8h 15m
Ret vs Art_Of_Turtle
Radley vs TBD
BSL
11h 15m
Replay Cast
16h 15m
RSL Revival
1d 2h
herO vs TriGGeR
NightMare vs Solar
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 6h
BSL
1d 11h
[ Show More ]
IPSL
1d 11h
eOnzErG vs TBD
G5 vs Nesh
Patches Events
1d 16h
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Jaedong vs Light
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Snow vs Flash
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
GSL
4 days
Classic vs Cure
Maru vs Rogue
GSL
5 days
SHIN vs Zoun
ByuN vs herO
OSC
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Escore
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W5
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
KK 2v2 League Season 1
Acropolis #4
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.