So if you haven't heard already, NoobFromUa got a copyright strikes from PGL for uploading highlights of DAC matches that PGL hosted, because they contained the commentaries that PGL's stream had.
This was the third time it ever happened across the course of the channel and no other tournament organizer including PGL themselves have ever done something close to this until now.
I feel that even though they DO have the right for their own content, they are shooting themselves in the foot by doing this. People become more interested in DOTA by watching NoobFromUA, and the tournaments can then get more exposure through these highlight videos. I see no reason why people are starting to fuss over these things when its practically free adverstizing over someone else's Youtube channel, which correlates to more exposure on the scene AND on the tournament in general.
Also, if they have had issues over these "highlight" channels in the past, why did they try to file a copyright claim now? Did they feel like after ESL did it and it (kinda) worked then they decided to follow suit to get more revenue from the twitch streams or is it a sponsorship thing?
I see no motive for this other than corporate greed, and if this continues on I fear for the future of the scene, as if I wasn't scared enough already with all the visa issues and the shady team managements that has been haunting the scene for quite a while (cough ACE esports cough)
I don't exactly know if I should put this on General since this is more or less my thoughts on the current issue at hand, so I'm just gonna put this on tavern and see if I can get other people's opinions on the subject.
tl;dr: NoobFromUA got a copyright claim from PGL for uploading highlights with their content on it. Seems fair and all but why did they start to do it now if it was already a problem years ago (they didnt have a problem with it in the past), and why do it at all if its practically free exposure?
EDIT: So as snoman pointed out this was actually his third strike, not his first. My bad, fixed the post so it correlates.
Valve made it pretty clear that if you include the tournament organizers's audio (casters) or camera movements (observing) then you are infringing on their rights. I don't know what noobfromua vids usually contained but i'm assuming they had the original play-by-play casting included. Thus, PGL were likely within their rights. This is the most important thing to sort out first, because the rest is mostly immaterial.
This was the first time it ever happened across the course of the channel and no other tournament organizer including PGL themselves have ever done something close to this until now.
Isn't this just patently false? considering it's literally his 3rd strike...
Anyway I get that it's nice to have free and available highlights, but I don't think it's unfair for TO's to decide that people shouldn't literally make a living repackaging their content. I don't really watch highlight videos, so i'm not really aware what options are available and it definitely sucks if this basically removes the sole source of videos for this tournament, but we can't always have nice things.
The real question isn't is NoobFromUA wrong (he is), it's why someone else hasn't stepped up to the plate. I can't imagine he's the only video editor in the world who can make good dota highlight videos and looking at his view count it's definitely feasible for someone who loves dota and lives in a not crazy cost of living country to take that job on 'officially' for broadcaster / tourney orgs.
To your points, which honestly I feel are a bit absurd:
I feel that even though they DO have the right for their own content
Yup, they do, and they should protect it in a reasonable way. I can see why organizers that spend their money in a still new industry like esports would want to protect their property as they're the ones who shell out the money for to pay the teams, the flights, the casters, the prize money, and the venue. The way PGL handled this seemed pretty reasonable to me tbh, unlike, say, Nintendo's first take on let's play videos. And what did all the Let's Players do when Nintendo did that? Take all the videos down, not get copyright struck cause they aren't idiots, and then approached Nintendo independently (well as a collective actually but you get the point) to talk to them about their draconian view on videos and streaming.
the tournaments can then get more exposure through these highlight videos. I see no reason why people are starting to fuss over these things when its practically free adverstizing over someone else's Youtube channel
This is the same arguments people make when they go up to freelance artists or website designers and ask for a free logo or free website, "you're gonna get exposure and your name out there!!!" If the tournaments and orgs thought it was worth it to give away all the content for people to make highlight videos in the name of exposure, they would just do that. If you think they don't understand the value of the exposure, maybe it's his job as the guy doing it to quantify it and present it to the orgs instead of just taking the content and ignoring requests to take it down don't you think?
Also, if they have had issues over these "highlight" channels in the past, why did they try to file a copyright claim now?
Doesn't matter at all, people change, organizers change, rules change, financial situations change, who cares what their motives are. They didn't even directly strike his account, the reached out to him first with Valve's clear guidelines on what's acceptable and what's not. I would have much more sympathy if they didn't reach out to him beforehand and ask very politely to follow the guidelines valve set out.
I see no motive for this other than corporate greed
I see this as the complete opposite, it's greed from NoobFromUA right? I'm sure tourneys would go 50/50 or 30/70 or w/e on his revenue for all those videos but he probably doesn't want to do that. Ofc, that's all speculation but I see extra income as the much greedier option, not shutting down a revenue stream they didn't have in the first place.
if this continues on I fear for the future of the scene
If people being able to steal content in direct opposition to Valve's already very loose stance on content generated from their game causes you fear for the future of the scene, then that sounds like a personal issue.
Valve made it pretty clear that if you include the tournament organizers's audio (casters) or camera movements (observing) then you are infringing on their rights. I don't know what noobfromua vids usually contained but i'm assuming they had the original play-by-play casting included. Thus, PGL were likely within their rights. This is the most important thing to sort out first, because the rest is mostly immaterial.
Apparently the copyright strike haven't been lifted even though he removed the videos and made another one - this time with no commentaries so it doesnt go against Valve's terms of use. Which could pose a problem perhaps, who knows.
@Count9 You made a lot of resounding points, and with most of them I agree with. Though, I wanted to add that I feel that the approach that PGL is taking - even though it is well within their rights to do so - is somewhat risky, considering ESL did the same thing and copyright striked everyone in order to make people watch the facebook stream, though the difference being that they went against Valve's terms of use and banned people for streaming without the commentaries. I still feel that this is a bad move by PGL in terms of appeasing their audience, though however as you pointed out maybe the sponsors weren't happy with the decreased revenue and they wanted to make esports more professional in the long run.
Also NoobFromUA apparently still makes highlights now, albeit with no commentary and no music. Hopefully no strikes will be called after this.
I still feel that this is a bad move by PGL in terms of appeasing their audience
Who knows, maybe the end result is positive and orgs are more open to hiring an official highlights guy, kinda like how stats guy caught on a few years ago and made it into the official client. But if orgs aren't being proactive about it, then it really falls onto the highlight makers to be more proactive in approaching the orgs, though preferably before getting copyright struck.
Granted, there are def a lot of people who like their independent channels rather than working with orgs so who knows, but there definitely seems to be very little discourse between the two parties.
To me, this whole situation seems like a textbook example of copyright infringement/ protecting your intellectual property. If NFUA was infringing on another company's copyrighted material, despite getting warnings to stop, I don't see how PGL is in the wrong here.
The discussion about highlight videos, who should be making them and whatnot is completely separate issue in my book. Just because you make videos that people like doesn't mean you are exempt from copyright laws
For whatever reason, The concept of "greed" is overexaggerated and blown out of context. they have a right to protect their own creative work. companies that generally support gamers aren't huge companies with limitless backings. if a brand is willing to stoop to swatting out small end content producers, you know they are desperate for the revenue. with that being said, there is and should be flexibility in streamers and content producers in such a grey area such as replays and streams.
Well looks like NoobFromUA has continued to upload highlight videos with commentary from outside streams, much to the approval of some of the bigger casters for giving exposure to unknown talent.
Making clips of already made contents isnt hard. I am not surprised he got shut down. Moreover, what he did is promoting his own channel by "stealing" / reposting someone else contents. I like Valve stand on this. You can cast your own but you cant restream someone else contents.
A bit out of topic but if you check hearthstone contents in youtube. There are a lot of channels that has obscene amount of subs and viewers. And what they do is clipping twitch streamers daily. its absurd amount of money from ads too. Blizzard dont care for these video editors to steal from content creators and big channel like daily eharthstone and trolden have almost the same contents yet hundreds of tousands people watch it.
All i am saying is some people profit by plagiarising from other people's work. I think noobfromua got it coming.
On April 08 2018 03:11 M.S.Bismarck wrote: Well looks like NoobFromUA has continued to upload highlight videos with commentary from outside streams, much to the approval of some of the bigger casters for giving exposure to unknown talent.
EPT
