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Please remember that while this thread is for QQ and venting about the game, racism is not tolerated here on LD. |
Played a game with teammates that only spoke spanish, neverending pinging and spanglish through the mic. We were winning most of the fights but they kept running away when the enemy grouped up, it just fucking blew my mind. At a certain point we've killed their mid tier 3 tower and we get an aegis on CK, response? Let's not push mid, let's randomly farm jungle and split up vs a mirana, pudge, bounty hunter, rubick and bloodseeker combo. We had Clock, CK, TA, Juggernaut and Troll.
Eventually we lost because they were unable to just group up and end and we got raxed because no-one was willing to engage. Hate these players that go into pubs only picking carries and semi-carries, being bad at lasthitting and forcing me to play 5 support buying all wards courier and mech and then complaining about me dying when I engage a fight and they just run away not wanting to go in because nothing is low enough to KS yet. Especially when there's 4 of them and they don't even seem to understand that I'm trying to tell them they're fuckers.
/rant
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Russian Federation748 Posts
Teammate TA doesn't have trap at lvl8. I beg him to learn the skill but to no avail. Oh well, at least he'll have it from level 13 onwards, right ?
Nope, stats are better.
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puck gets ult on 3 people tping to defend double split push. nuff said.
TI3 everyone. Congrats Alliance but damn man...
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if only i won my team 800k every time i cast puck ult....
also, watch so many games and liek 0 item drops. rng gods hate me. TT
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I'm starting to see where the stack hate comes from.
I get put with a 3 stack of tinker weaver and enchantress, all who demand lane comp right from the start. Whatever, I randomed Brew and have an AA support, EZ slows, EZ life.
And the game went well, we avoided the pudge (mostly), bara didn't have crazy pubstomping rampage, drow just kind of farmed solo and shadowbladed out, nothing detrimental. We won after a long slugfest, but that's another story.
But the stack. They would never stop complaining. The lengths they went to to blame every bad thing on AA and I were incredible.
Enchantress gets hooked while derping around in mid alone at 62 minutes? Brew's fault for not diving in to fight pudge, Aegis drow, and the soon-to-arrive spirit breaker. Absolutely terrible player, I don't deserve this.
Farming the jungle camp that enchantress wanted? Holy shit this brew. Never mind that he's 200 gold to a scepter or anything and they're barreling down mid.
Weaver wanders off with tinker as they get hooked/dunked/lightinged? Fucking brew can't even blink into fog at double range with maphacks to initiate, noob.
You have 3 people in a skype call and still can't form an actual push more than once every 10 minutes? omg 3v5 this brew and aa are dragging this so much.
I don't know who inflated their ego so much but I'm betting it's the guy who only gives me 2 reports.
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To all the people that say Pudge + chen fountain hooks were high risk :
In that Tongfu vs Na'Vi game 3, fountain hooks was pretty much low risk, because they were far behind and had like a 10% chance of winning the game. They had nothing to lose, so they went all in on the hook + teleport strategy, and won the game by abusing it. Sure, it takes a certain degree of practise to execute, but that doesn't make it fair.
Also people saying force a fight immediately after a failed hook, how do you get your entire team into position to fight? Are they supposed to magically teleport into Na'Vi's team immediately with perfect positioning? Also most of the time, the rest of the team was quite behind, and pudge would go fishing with force staff + hook at about a total of 1900 range. (1300 hook range + 600 staff range). The rest of the team would be even further behind pudge, and there is no way in hell that Tongfu could have initiated. At that range, Na'Vi would just fallback to the nearest tower, giving Dendi enough time to teleport into the fight. Na'Vi knew what they were doing, and it was almost zero risk at that point in the game considering the state of that game.
Also, this wasn't possible in DotA 1, except with KotL + Pudge, but that requires KotL to stay at fountain, making it not worthwhile to pull of this strategy, because you will always be fighting 4 v 5 (or worse, 3 v 5 if your pudge hook misses).
Expect a nerf in an upcoming patch. Not because it requires lesser skill to execute, but because its almost impossible to avoid 100% of the time, and always puts the affected team way behind when it works.
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On August 12 2013 17:32 Piledriver wrote:
To all the people that say Pudge + chen fountain hooks were high risk :
In that Tongfu vs Na'Vi game 3, fountain hooks was pretty much low risk, because they were far behind and had like a 10% chance of winning the game. They had nothing to lose, so they went all in on the hook + teleport strategy, and won the game by abusing it. Sure, it takes a certain degree of practise to execute, but that doesn't make it fair.
Also, this wasn't possible in DotA 1, except with KotL + Pudge, but that requires KotL to stay at fountain, making it not worthwhile to pull of this strategy, because you will always be fighting 4 v 5 (or worse, 3 v 5 if your pudge hook misses).
Expect a nerf in an upcoming patch. Not because it requires lesser skill to execute, but because its almost impossible to avoid 100% of the time, and always puts the affected team way behind when it works.
Wrong. This is a intended feature, and no nerfs are planned. You are SUPPOSED to be able to execute the fountain hooks. It was posted in the dota 2 dev forums.
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On August 12 2013 17:35 Mithhaike wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 17:32 Piledriver wrote:
To all the people that say Pudge + chen fountain hooks were high risk :
In that Tongfu vs Na'Vi game 3, fountain hooks was pretty much low risk, because they were far behind and had like a 10% chance of winning the game. They had nothing to lose, so they went all in on the hook + teleport strategy, and won the game by abusing it. Sure, it takes a certain degree of practise to execute, but that doesn't make it fair.
Also, this wasn't possible in DotA 1, except with KotL + Pudge, but that requires KotL to stay at fountain, making it not worthwhile to pull of this strategy, because you will always be fighting 4 v 5 (or worse, 3 v 5 if your pudge hook misses).
Expect a nerf in an upcoming patch. Not because it requires lesser skill to execute, but because its almost impossible to avoid 100% of the time, and always puts the affected team way behind when it works. Wrong. This is a intended feature, and no nerfs are planned. You are SUPPOSED to be able to execute the fountain hooks. It was posted in the dota 2 dev forums.
That was an old post from 2012, and it hasn't been abused to this extent so far. Now that Na'Vi has put this issue squarely in the spotlight, expect a change in status quo. At the very least, Valve is going to fix the visual glitches associated with this "feature". (Hook coming from wrong angle visually)
There are already reports that Na'Vi was asked by Valve to not use that combo in the grand finals. Not sure how true that was though.
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how do you lane a team of
-Kunkka
-Lifestealer
-Death prophet
-Lion
-Pugna
?
Kunkka + LS easy (in lane, not in jungle!)
Pugna mid
Lion and DP top
Sigh....
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On August 12 2013 17:40 Piledriver wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 17:35 Mithhaike wrote:On August 12 2013 17:32 Piledriver wrote:
To all the people that say Pudge + chen fountain hooks were high risk :
In that Tongfu vs Na'Vi game 3, fountain hooks was pretty much low risk, because they were far behind and had like a 10% chance of winning the game. They had nothing to lose, so they went all in on the hook + teleport strategy, and won the game by abusing it. Sure, it takes a certain degree of practise to execute, but that doesn't make it fair.
Also, this wasn't possible in DotA 1, except with KotL + Pudge, but that requires KotL to stay at fountain, making it not worthwhile to pull of this strategy, because you will always be fighting 4 v 5 (or worse, 3 v 5 if your pudge hook misses).
Expect a nerf in an upcoming patch. Not because it requires lesser skill to execute, but because its almost impossible to avoid 100% of the time, and always puts the affected team way behind when it works. Wrong. This is a intended feature, and no nerfs are planned. You are SUPPOSED to be able to execute the fountain hooks. It was posted in the dota 2 dev forums. That was an old post from 2012, and it hasn't been abused to this extent so far. Now that Na'Vi has put this issue squarely in the spotlight, expect a change in status quo. At the very least, Valve is going to fix the visual glitches associated with this "feature". (Hook coming from wrong angle visually) There are already reports that Na'Vi was asked by Valve to not use that combo in the grand finals. Not sure how true that was though.
Alliance would have punished any fail hook so hard, like seriously, tongfu could grab a dagger on doom eat a centaur and go punish this freaking 4O5 in their woods.
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On August 12 2013 18:25 nojok wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 17:40 Piledriver wrote:On August 12 2013 17:35 Mithhaike wrote:On August 12 2013 17:32 Piledriver wrote:
To all the people that say Pudge + chen fountain hooks were high risk :
In that Tongfu vs Na'Vi game 3, fountain hooks was pretty much low risk, because they were far behind and had like a 10% chance of winning the game. They had nothing to lose, so they went all in on the hook + teleport strategy, and won the game by abusing it. Sure, it takes a certain degree of practise to execute, but that doesn't make it fair.
Also, this wasn't possible in DotA 1, except with KotL + Pudge, but that requires KotL to stay at fountain, making it not worthwhile to pull of this strategy, because you will always be fighting 4 v 5 (or worse, 3 v 5 if your pudge hook misses).
Expect a nerf in an upcoming patch. Not because it requires lesser skill to execute, but because its almost impossible to avoid 100% of the time, and always puts the affected team way behind when it works. Wrong. This is a intended feature, and no nerfs are planned. You are SUPPOSED to be able to execute the fountain hooks. It was posted in the dota 2 dev forums. That was an old post from 2012, and it hasn't been abused to this extent so far. Now that Na'Vi has put this issue squarely in the spotlight, expect a change in status quo. At the very least, Valve is going to fix the visual glitches associated with this "feature". (Hook coming from wrong angle visually) There are already reports that Na'Vi was asked by Valve to not use that combo in the grand finals. Not sure how true that was though. Alliance would have punished any fail hook so hard, like seriously, tongfu could grab a dagger on doom eat a centaur and go punish this freaking 4O5 in their woods.
I edited the original post to illustrate why that is not possible. To requote myself
Also people saying force a fight immediately after a failed hook, how do you get your entire team into position to fight? Are they supposed to magically teleport into Na'Vi's team immediately with perfect positioning? Also most of the time, the rest of Na'Vi was positioned 400-500 units behind pudge, and pudge would go fishing with force staff + hook at about a total of 1900 range. (1300 hook range + 600 staff range). The rest of the team would get the hell out in the case of a failed hook and there is no way in hell that Tongfu could have initiated. At that range, Na'Vi would just fallback to the nearest tower, giving Dendi enough time to teleport into the fight. Na'Vi knew what they were doing, and it was almost zero risk at that point in the game considering the state of that game.
Blink dagger range is 1200. How on earth is Doom going to initiate at a team which is more than 2000 units away, and retreating in the opposite direction? The only way I can illustrate my point better is by taking screenshots from the actual game itself and drawing lines to prove it to you with visual aids.
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On August 12 2013 18:36 Piledriver wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 18:25 nojok wrote:On August 12 2013 17:40 Piledriver wrote:On August 12 2013 17:35 Mithhaike wrote:On August 12 2013 17:32 Piledriver wrote:
To all the people that say Pudge + chen fountain hooks were high risk :
In that Tongfu vs Na'Vi game 3, fountain hooks was pretty much low risk, because they were far behind and had like a 10% chance of winning the game. They had nothing to lose, so they went all in on the hook + teleport strategy, and won the game by abusing it. Sure, it takes a certain degree of practise to execute, but that doesn't make it fair.
Also, this wasn't possible in DotA 1, except with KotL + Pudge, but that requires KotL to stay at fountain, making it not worthwhile to pull of this strategy, because you will always be fighting 4 v 5 (or worse, 3 v 5 if your pudge hook misses).
Expect a nerf in an upcoming patch. Not because it requires lesser skill to execute, but because its almost impossible to avoid 100% of the time, and always puts the affected team way behind when it works. Wrong. This is a intended feature, and no nerfs are planned. You are SUPPOSED to be able to execute the fountain hooks. It was posted in the dota 2 dev forums. That was an old post from 2012, and it hasn't been abused to this extent so far. Now that Na'Vi has put this issue squarely in the spotlight, expect a change in status quo. At the very least, Valve is going to fix the visual glitches associated with this "feature". (Hook coming from wrong angle visually) There are already reports that Na'Vi was asked by Valve to not use that combo in the grand finals. Not sure how true that was though. Alliance would have punished any fail hook so hard, like seriously, tongfu could grab a dagger on doom eat a centaur and go punish this freaking 4O5 in their woods. I edited the original post to illustrate why that is not possible. To requote myself Show nested quote +
Also people saying force a fight immediately after a failed hook, how do you get your entire team into position to fight? Are they supposed to magically teleport into Na'Vi's team immediately with perfect positioning? Also most of the time, the rest of Na'Vi was quite behind, and pudge would go fishing with force staff + hook at about a total of 1900 range. (1300 hook range + 600 staff range). The rest of the team would be even further behind pudge, and there is no way in hell that Tongfu could have initiated. At that range, Na'Vi would just fallback to the nearest tower, giving Dendi enough time to teleport into the fight. Na'Vi knew what they were doing, and it was almost zero risk at that point in the game considering the state of that game.
Blink dagger range is 1200. How on earth is Doom going to initiate at a team which is more than 2000 units away, and retreating in the opposite direction? The only way I can illustrate my point better is by taking screenshots from the actual game itself and drawing lines to prove it to you with visual aids.
first off, its not op, this is a gimmick, you can argue about how its stupid and all that, yes this gimmick let them win, its not unbeatable and its not even that reliable. Is it stupid that two combinations of spells can instantly kill anybody no matter how far ahead they are? Id say so, but still, its not that good or reliable.
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On August 12 2013 18:36 Piledriver wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 18:25 nojok wrote:On August 12 2013 17:40 Piledriver wrote:On August 12 2013 17:35 Mithhaike wrote:On August 12 2013 17:32 Piledriver wrote:
To all the people that say Pudge + chen fountain hooks were high risk :
In that Tongfu vs Na'Vi game 3, fountain hooks was pretty much low risk, because they were far behind and had like a 10% chance of winning the game. They had nothing to lose, so they went all in on the hook + teleport strategy, and won the game by abusing it. Sure, it takes a certain degree of practise to execute, but that doesn't make it fair.
Also, this wasn't possible in DotA 1, except with KotL + Pudge, but that requires KotL to stay at fountain, making it not worthwhile to pull of this strategy, because you will always be fighting 4 v 5 (or worse, 3 v 5 if your pudge hook misses).
Expect a nerf in an upcoming patch. Not because it requires lesser skill to execute, but because its almost impossible to avoid 100% of the time, and always puts the affected team way behind when it works. Wrong. This is a intended feature, and no nerfs are planned. You are SUPPOSED to be able to execute the fountain hooks. It was posted in the dota 2 dev forums. That was an old post from 2012, and it hasn't been abused to this extent so far. Now that Na'Vi has put this issue squarely in the spotlight, expect a change in status quo. At the very least, Valve is going to fix the visual glitches associated with this "feature". (Hook coming from wrong angle visually) There are already reports that Na'Vi was asked by Valve to not use that combo in the grand finals. Not sure how true that was though. Alliance would have punished any fail hook so hard, like seriously, tongfu could grab a dagger on doom eat a centaur and go punish this freaking 4O5 in their woods. I edited the original post to illustrate why that is not possible. To requote myself Show nested quote +
Also people saying force a fight immediately after a failed hook, how do you get your entire team into position to fight? Are they supposed to magically teleport into Na'Vi's team immediately with perfect positioning? Also most of the time, the rest of Na'Vi was positioned 400-500 units behind pudge, and pudge would go fishing with force staff + hook at about a total of 1900 range. (1300 hook range + 600 staff range). The rest of the team would get the hell out in the case of a failed hook and there is no way in hell that Tongfu could have initiated. At that range, Na'Vi would just fallback to the nearest tower, giving Dendi enough time to teleport into the fight. Na'Vi knew what they were doing, and it was almost zero risk at that point in the game considering the state of that game.
Blink dagger range is 1200. How on earth is Doom going to initiate at a team which is more than 2000 units away, and retreating in the opposite direction? The only way I can illustrate my point better is by taking screenshots from the actual game itself and drawing lines to prove it to you with visual aids.
Ok, let's say I'm wrong on this one. Doom was the last pick and clock was available. Outdrafted. Too bad orange did not see it coming.
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On August 12 2013 17:32 Piledriver wrote:
To all the people that say Pudge + chen fountain hooks were high risk :
In that Tongfu vs Na'Vi game 3, fountain hooks was pretty much low risk, because they were far behind and had like a 10% chance of winning the game. They had nothing to lose, so they went all in on the hook + teleport strategy, and won the game by abusing it. Sure, it takes a certain degree of practise to execute, but that doesn't make it fair.
Also people saying force a fight immediately after a failed hook, how do you get your entire team into position to fight? Are they supposed to magically teleport into Na'Vi's team immediately with perfect positioning? Also most of the time, the rest of the team was quite behind, and pudge would go fishing with force staff + hook at about a total of 1900 range. (1300 hook range + 600 staff range). The rest of the team would be even further behind pudge, and there is no way in hell that Tongfu could have initiated. At that range, Na'Vi would just fallback to the nearest tower, giving Dendi enough time to teleport into the fight. Na'Vi knew what they were doing, and it was almost zero risk at that point in the game considering the state of that game.
Also, this wasn't possible in DotA 1, except with KotL + Pudge, but that requires KotL to stay at fountain, making it not worthwhile to pull of this strategy, because you will always be fighting 4 v 5 (or worse, 3 v 5 if your pudge hook misses).
Expect a nerf in an upcoming patch. Not because it requires lesser skill to execute, but because its almost impossible to avoid 100% of the time, and always puts the affected team way behind when it works.
I played against a chen pudge combo and the pudge never landed a hook, so nobody went to fountain, of course they were bad because its a low level pub, but what you are getting at is these high skill teams shouldnt have fun doing troll plays when they are in tourney's...
In sc2 theres a lot of pros who put troll nexuses in base or drop manner mules, I think what they did was for their fans, obviously they didnt do it just cuz they knew how to exploit it, compared to the wisp games i would say wisp is way more abusive than a chen pudge combo, on top of them having to get a draft in to even get the hero's they gotta set it all up. Which is high risk because they are entirely depending on pudge ganks from hooks, Instead of smoking and running into their jungle, so in a sense they are gambling and they are doing it for fun! I don't really think valve will nerf the fountain hooks, and the only reason na vi is getting backlash was because of so much on the line, and theres obviously a lot of people upset about tongfu going home after that last game, and na vi showing off their immense skill considering the fact that another na vi member using the force staff, so it was a 3 man coordination on their part...
I don't see how this is abusive, considering it wasn't done every game in every set, by every team...
Also it didnt really matter at the point if they were going back to fountain, considering dendi was landing hooks with the whole team behind him the guy getting hooked is going to just die anyways lol!
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Can you do it with Tiny? In HoN the mechanics were similar. If you threw onto yourself while you were (or someone else that was) being teleported to the fountain, they'd go for the trip with you.
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Before they remove fountain hooks they should add an in-game strategy coach, that tells you how to properly execute a team fight and how to doom the right target. Seriously though, I'd be willing to bet rares on that fountainhooking remains unchanged.
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On August 12 2013 18:52 FlyingToilet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 17:32 Piledriver wrote:
To all the people that say Pudge + chen fountain hooks were high risk :
In that Tongfu vs Na'Vi game 3, fountain hooks was pretty much low risk, because they were far behind and had like a 10% chance of winning the game. They had nothing to lose, so they went all in on the hook + teleport strategy, and won the game by abusing it. Sure, it takes a certain degree of practise to execute, but that doesn't make it fair.
Also people saying force a fight immediately after a failed hook, how do you get your entire team into position to fight? Are they supposed to magically teleport into Na'Vi's team immediately with perfect positioning? Also most of the time, the rest of the team was quite behind, and pudge would go fishing with force staff + hook at about a total of 1900 range. (1300 hook range + 600 staff range). The rest of the team would be even further behind pudge, and there is no way in hell that Tongfu could have initiated. At that range, Na'Vi would just fallback to the nearest tower, giving Dendi enough time to teleport into the fight. Na'Vi knew what they were doing, and it was almost zero risk at that point in the game considering the state of that game.
Also, this wasn't possible in DotA 1, except with KotL + Pudge, but that requires KotL to stay at fountain, making it not worthwhile to pull of this strategy, because you will always be fighting 4 v 5 (or worse, 3 v 5 if your pudge hook misses).
Expect a nerf in an upcoming patch. Not because it requires lesser skill to execute, but because its almost impossible to avoid 100% of the time, and always puts the affected team way behind when it works.
I played against a chen pudge combo and the pudge never landed a hook, so nobody went to fountain, of course they were bad because its a low level pub, but what you are getting at is these high skill teams shouldnt have fun doing troll plays when they are in tourney's... In sc2 theres a lot of pros who put troll nexuses in base or drop manner mules, I think what they did was for their fans, obviously they didnt do it just cuz they knew how to exploit it, compared to the wisp games i would say wisp is way more abusive than a chen pudge combo, on top of them having to get a draft in to even get the hero's they gotta set it all up. Which is high risk because they are entirely depending on pudge ganks from hooks, Instead of smoking and running into their jungle, so in a sense they are gambling and they are doing it for fun! I don't really think valve will nerf the fountain hooks, and the only reason na vi is getting backlash was because of so much on the line, and theres obviously a lot of people upset about tongfu going home after that last game, and na vi showing off their immense skill considering the fact that another na vi member using the force staff, so it was a 3 man coordination on their part... I don't see how this is abusive, considering it wasn't done every game in every set, by every team... Also it didnt really matter at the point if they were going back to fountain, considering dendi was landing hooks with the whole team behind him the guy getting hooked is going to just die anyways lol!
You playing vs Chen pudge combo != Na'Vi playing chen pudge. They were not having "fun" in a million dollar tourney. They just abused a known "feature" to the maximum possible extent to gain an insurmountable advantage. Of course, I don't fault Na'Vi even 1% for doing this. Its Valve's fault for this being possible. Its just that no one has seen this being abused to such an extent, so it hasnt been a problem so far. To make an analogous comparison in SC2, in early/mid WOL, no one realized Hellions were so OP in TvZ and TvT until Slayers terrans were just massing hellions in mid game and trading Hellions for drones. This led to Blizzard swiftly nerfing Hellions. The same way, now that Na'Vi has demonstrated the strength of this combo, it may be entirely possible that Valve might reconsider nerfing this, especially if more teams start to abuse this mechanic (and I wish more teams abuse this and lead to a nerf, just to eliminate the possibility of this happening in a major tourney).
I don't care about fountain hooks in a pub. You can do it all day long, and at worst, I would just rage quit. However I didn't really like the fact that it ruined a big match in a big tourney. I didn't care much about Tongfu before that series but I really felt bad for them after that game, Once again, I have no problems with Na'Vi using fountain hook, because they acted well within the rules of the game. I just have a problem with the mechanics of the game, and not against the players.
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Got called a feeder for dying twice in the offlane as syllabear. Completely ignoring the fact i killed antimage and their tower before 10 minutes.
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If fountain hooks were overpowered, don't you think Na'Vi would have used them in another game in this tournament? They're not overpowered. They're an extremely niche strategy that works against lineups that can't punish a failed attempt. We say that those lineups have "poor reach," and fountain hooks aren't the only thing they're weak against.
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they weren't allowed by valve to use fountain hook again after that match
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EPT
