Dota 2 QQ thread - Page 1072

On June 03 2014 00:17 sCCrooked wrote:



I constantly see people giving this incredibly fallacious philosophy towards improving oneself. I'm sorry but there are literally games where going 700GPM+700XPM is insufficient because your teammates are utterly retarded. I don't know if any of the other 5k+ rating people here actually try playing at the 3k to 4k level (I mean a large sample of games with a large number of high level players not all on a team together) but this idea simply does not work in actual practice.

When you start improving and focusing entirely on your own situation what happens is inevitably as you nitpick your own play you will become even more aware of the horrible decisions your teammates make. 5 carry teams when 2 carries have been picked since 1:59 left on the counter, an ursa that goes tranquil boots AND power treads AND phase boots because he thinks they stack and obviously I'm the n00b for pointing out that might not be best and finally a sniper that insists that he can take on a Witch Doctor + Mirana dual lane solo and how dare I try to support (he called it leeching) are all very common scenarios at this sort of tier.

Teams simply do not stick together. 90% of the time the guys off running around getting killed solo because they get mobbed over on the enemy side of the map while the rest of the team is jungling instead of pushing don't even speak english and make things 50x worse because the moron can't even communicate much less actually play the game. These are not scenarios even people at the top pro level could possibly overcome. If you watched pro streams, these sorts of players buy accounts and end up at the higher MMRs too (I know from personal experience).

I'm not saying don't look at your own problem first, but acting like that somehow overcomes the vast problem of "team is retarded therefore I lose no matter if I'm doing well" is utterly retarded. Logic and reasoning are the only real tools of strategic trade.

On June 04 2014 10:17 TheSubtleArt wrote:


Hey man, sorry for the late reply. I agree with what you're saying, but it doesn't actually discredit my line of thinking. There will be games where your teammates are so terrible the game is beyond salvaging for anyone not named S4. I agree there, but that's not really the claim people are making when they complain about an MMR trench.


What I find completely stupid is the notion that this type of scenario ("I'm good but matched with 4 retards") happens consistently enough that you can't climb to your appropriate MMR. You see the difference? It's incredibly improbable that matchmaking conspires against one person in particular, so that every game that person's matched with 4 terrible people while 5 opposing players are worse than that one person but way better than the other four.


I've had games where I was beyond godlike but still lost because of clueless teammates. However I've also had games where feeders where on the other team, and games where I played horribly and got carried by teammates. You don't think it sounds incredibly deluded of me to think the first scenario is far more common than the rest??


It's just the nature of a 5v5 game that accurately calibrating individual MMRs takes a lot more games than it would for a 1v1 game like starcraft. There's far more variance to account for, but that's unavoidable.


Think of tossing a rigged coin that's supposed to land on heads 60% of the time. The first 10 tosses, you're expected to get 6 heads. However getting 5, 4 or even 3 heads isn't THAT unlikely. However, if we tossed this coin 1000 times, getting 400 or 300 heads would make us start questioning the coin, no?


If someone is truly better than the players he gets queued with, his team will have a higher probability of winning. Given that it's a 5v5 game, it's not too unlikely that this person ends up right where he started after 20 ranked games. Now, if they play 100-200 games and are STILL where they started, isn't the most logical conclusion that they're already playing vs people of equal skill?

On June 04 2014 21:26 Kerashi wrote:
Radiant - Storm Spirit, Tinker, Chaos Knight, Warlock, Invoker
Dire - Death Prophet (me for anti-push), Lion, Phantom Assassin, Spectre, Bloodseeker
Problem - 3 carries

Radiant - Axe, Doom (me for NC), Sniper, Queen of Pain, Mirana
Dire - Nyx, Furion, Spiritbreaker, Naix, Pudge
Problem - Sniper 1-8, then abandoned

Radiant - Invoker, Earthshaker, Weaver, Phoenix, Mirana
Dire - Lion, Doom, Juggernaut, Anti Mage, Dazzle (me for hard support)
Problem - 3 carries, one of them Anti Mage

Radiant - Shadow Shaman, Anti Mage, Sniper, Tidehunter (me for offlane), Dazzle
Dire - Stealth Assassin, Crystal Maiden, Bloodseeker, Ogre Magi, Tiny
Problem - Anti Mage against SA and BS

Radiant - Weaver (me for carry), Timber, Naix, Bloodseeker, Vengeful Spirit
Dire - Dragon Knight, Storm Spirit, Sand King, Witch Doctor, Centaur Warrunner
Problem - Bloodseeker mid

On June 04 2014 22:34 Velzi wrote:
So finally someone realized its good to listen to teammates.

Mid Magnus goes for MoM, i tell him to buy a blink dagger instead: "Nono, me can rp without blink." rgr tht. 1st rp: misses. 2nd rp: only razor and then they teamwipe us. 3rd rp: misses. I tell him again to buy that goddamn blink dagger. "Okey, me buy blink for u, just for u."Then it goes like 20s after he buys blink. Blinks on sand king, pulls him to our tower and we kill him. 2 minutes later blink into 4 man rp. Teamwipe for us. Eventually we lost the game because lion decided its lunch time but we basicly got back into game coz i told him to buy blink dagger. pff.