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I highly recommend that you watch your Video Card Temperature while playing SC2 for the first few weeks. New games, bad drivers, inadequate ventilation and slow fans have been known to cause problems in the past!!
Keep your drivers updated, and keep an eye on your FPS.
You can do this by pressing Cntl+Alt+F while in game.
I have a GTX260 Gigabyte- which was rendering the game- and the opening Cinematic at over 300 FPS. Obviously, this is unnecessary and potentially dangerous.
This concerned me. As, my card usually runs at 59c when playing a game reasonably loaded (WoW or SC2 Beta)... and rarely gets to 60c or above.
Today, after 10 minutes it was up to 65c. So I shut down and dug up this old thread by R1CH. (The Master of the Universe) This is a trick to CAP your CPU and Graphics Card usage, which may run unnecessarily high:
If you want to reduce CPU usage, you can edit your Variables.txt in My Documents / Starcraft II and add the line "frameratecap=60". This also reduces CPU usage as well as GPU usage, contrary to how I thought it worked.
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=117453
Apparently it still works just like in beta.
My Temperature is running normal now, rendering at 60 fps, and I am very happy.
Thank you R1CH!!!!!
Hope this helps someone else!! Be careful out there and have fun guys <3
TL:DR Do the instructions in the Quoted text above to limit your FPS in game and reduce the load SC2 puts on your system.
Edit: Apparently V-sync under the graphic's option will limit it to your monitors rate. IMO- still monitor your FPS and cap it anyways.
7/29/10- Blizzard acknowledges overheating issues.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=139794
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Thank you for the reminder. I have had the windows open in my house but I noticed that beneath my desk was extremely hot when I was playing last night, and it was plenty cold outside. Turns out it's been a dusty few weeks since I last cleaned my case out and my video card was definitely not lovin' it. Losing your hardware due to poor maintenance (drivers, fouled heatsinks, or god forbid loose or dried out thermal contacts) will NOT leave you with a good feeling inside.
Also: In many cultures, the term "v-card" has a VERY different meaning than you intended, which was what got me to open this thread. "What the fuck is a v-card temp?" -_-
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I thought Blizzard already puts a cap on FPS... guess not.
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Thanks for this help. I've been having a lot of temperature issues with the full game (no problems whatsoever with beta)... I'd definitely advise everyone to be careful!
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On July 28 2010 07:51 Gedrah wrote:
Also: In many cultures, the term "v-card" has a VERY different meaning than you intended, which was what got me to open this thread. "What the fuck is a v-card temp?" -_-
I had no idea. Mod's of course can change it if they want. (In retrospect, "GPU Temps!" would have been a much better Title.)
My only concern was to have the whole message get across as best as possible in the little space.
And, ya, at least from my observation, without the edit SC2 is pretty much going to max the crap out of your system no matter your settings. The real benefit from reducing your Graphics settings will really only manifest after you cap the frame rate. Or its just going to proceed to render the lesser graphics at more speed.
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On July 28 2010 08:00 Ownos wrote:
I thought Blizzard already puts a cap on FPS... guess not.
If you use vertical sync then it will cap it to some obscure framerate like 40.
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Osaka27128 Posts
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I had a very similar problem. I found that I could only play the game for a few minutes before it started to sloooowww to a crawl. Rebooting helped, but only for a little while. As it turns out my GPU was at 100 degrees! I let it cool down and took out a sound card that was blocking air flow, and now it's doing well. I've played games for several hours before and never observed temperatures above 70. I guess sc2 works out some parts of the card that were untouched before. I'm just glad it wasn't damaged.
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Yeah, SC2 has always turned my dual 5850's into a freaking space-heater.
However, turning on VSync in the options should cap the framerate
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On July 28 2010 09:06 PcChip wrote:
Yeah, SC2 has always turned my dual 5850's into a freaking space-heater.
However, turning on VSync in the options should cap the framerate
I would have left it at this, though I was affraid that "a fraction of my Monitor's refresh rate" could also mean 2/1 or 3/1!!!
... aka 120 or 180.... just to be safe I wanted to cap it too.
Thanks Manifesto7 
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Reduce the load? why would anyone want to do that?
Use manual fan speed
use manual fan speed
USE MANUAL FAN SPEED
USE MANUAL FAN SPEED
I cannot begin to tell you the number of problems that result from auto fan speeds. You shouldn't need to hobble you GPU at all. Hell you have a faster card than I do, you should be running ultra HD like I do, no some pussy 60 fps, no offense.
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On July 28 2010 09:17 Dr.Smoke wrote:
Reduce the load? why would anyone want to do that?
Use manual fan speed
use manual fan speed
USE MANUAL FAN SPEED
USE MANUAL FAN SPEED
I cannot begin to tell you the number of problems that result from auto fan speeds. You shouldn't need to hobble you GPU at all. Hell you have a faster card than I do, you should be running ultra HD like I do, no some pussy 60 fps, no offense.
pussy 60 fps? You do realize that is quite a bit more than humans eye can register. In other words there is no need to play the game on 120 fps if you can play it on 60.
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lol Okay?
I don't want my card running over 60c if I can help it.
I really can't tell the difference between 60fps and 200fps.
Also... The textures on Med/High where I have them now are fine.
My fan is always at 100%. The card came like that.
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Framerate cap isn't in variables.txt anymore, so your suggestion doesn't apply. Unless someone found it.
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United States12230 Posts
On July 28 2010 09:28 TheAngelofDeath wrote:
Framerate cap isn't in variables.txt anymore, so your suggestion doesn't apply. Unless someone found it.
It's supposed to be added in...
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On July 28 2010 09:27 Skvid wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2010 09:17 Dr.Smoke wrote:
Reduce the load? why would anyone want to do that?
Use manual fan speed
use manual fan speed
USE MANUAL FAN SPEED
USE MANUAL FAN SPEED
I cannot begin to tell you the number of problems that result from auto fan speeds. You shouldn't need to hobble you GPU at all. Hell you have a faster card than I do, you should be running ultra HD like I do, no some pussy 60 fps, no offense. pussy 60 fps? You do realize that is quite a bit more than humans eye can register. In other words there is no need to play the game on 120 fps if you can play it on 60.
Forget about eyes. Monitors can only draw so many frames per second. FPS higher than 60 are usually used for benchmarking.
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On July 28 2010 09:17 Dr.Smoke wrote:
no some pussy 60 fps
I have an LCD, it can only display at 60fps. Why not cap it to that rate? Any higher and it would display tearing, which I HATE. I love the smoothness of vsync
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On July 28 2010 09:31 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2010 09:28 TheAngelofDeath wrote:
Framerate cap isn't in variables.txt anymore, so your suggestion doesn't apply. Unless someone found it. It's supposed to be added in...
Oh really? Thanks. It was posted on the boosting fps guide as missing. Might wanna go post in that thread too. 
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Lol doesn't sound like OP has ever used 4x or 8x AA and maxed AF for his 260. You will be heating that GPU in no time. And agree - change your fan profile with Afterburner.
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gonna give vsync a try
my laptop is running HOT
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VSync performs the exact same effect of capping rendering at 60FPS.
Also, the guy who said that monitors don't go over 60 is on the right track. The only reason to uncap your FPS is to check benchmark scores. It's rare that turning off VSync will actually fix any rendering issues.
There is one problem that VSync does create, though. That's a response time issue. Due to the VSync waiting for the right time to render a frame, so there's no image tearing, you'll suffer minor lag from input devices like your mouse. It's not huge, but it's there. You need to enable Triple Buffering to fix it. I can't remember if the SC2 options had VSync and Triple Buffering in them, though. I'll have to check that out when I get home.
Also, the human eye can typically notice changes up to 100FPS or so, btw. Though, you very much do have to focus. Anything above 50FPS tends to result in minimal changes as far as people are concerned. Anything above 85FPS tends to be problematic due to monitor restrictions.
There really is no reason to go over 85FPS at all unless you're benchmarking hardware performance. Pushing your hardware will only decrease its lifespan and decrease it's power gradually. Definitely less than ideal for anyone who is concerned with money.
Anyone who is concerned with keeping their card under 60°C is just being efficient.
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This is a very very good thread to put into consideration, and especially since it is Summer temps will be reaching rediculous highs in your computer, so best be safe before frying hardware.
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if only my sc2 can run over 10 fps at the lowest lwoest setting this would be very helpful
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My laptop graphic cards can go up to 105 celsius :O It's qwazy!
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I was looking into this issue before i found this thread..
my 8800gt went up to 99 degrees.. and probably more when i wasn't watching
i had to manually double the fan speed
so i've turned everything to low, except the CPU settings..i put those on ultra like effects, physics and cinematic quality, cuz they use cpu not gpu
frame also maxed at 60/30 now, thx
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only blind people cant notice the difference between 60 and 150++ fps, the mouse precision, the response of the cursor moviments and other things are very noticeable, i would put a limit of 100fps, 100fps is fine, much better than 60.
Did someone ve ever played Counter Strike 1.6? THERE IS A HUGE, A VERY HUGE difference between 60fps and 100fps, thats why everyone uses the command fps_max 100 there.
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Many GPUs can undervolt pretty well. I.e. GTX260's - mine came stock at 1.125v, but I can drop it to 1.088 or lower and it drops the load temps a full 10-15C's.
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On July 28 2010 14:12 mav451 wrote:
Many GPUs can undervolt pretty well. I.e. GTX260's - mine came stock at 1.125v, but I can drop it to 1.088 or lower and it drops the load temps a full 10-15C's.
That's what I like to see. Going for taking care of the card, trying to keep your system in good shape... because it performs 90% and really good anyways.
It's obvious I'm concerned about keeping peoples gear in good shape and not trying to have some internet pissing-contest about who has more FPS on Ultra on a 30 inch monitor.
Overclocking to up your numbers to swell your e-peen is just- not me.
I like how my card can chew this game up and I can play comfortably for hours with no worries and no hours of babysitting my system. That's whats nice!
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Question!
So if VSync causes a bit of mouse lag, if i set frameratecap=90 will that mouse lag only occur when my computer is restraining its FPS?
The reason i ask this is because normally my computer runs around 70-80 FPS which is perfect! But when little cut scenes occur it spikes to anywhere from 150-250+ depending. In those situations i wouldn't mind the extra response lag, but if my computer is constantly causing tiny bits of mouse lag i rather just risk it :O
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Personaly, I always notice some screen-tearing if I don't have Vsync on.
Especially when I mouse scroll my screen. It's pretty slight, but bothers me to no end.
On the other hand, I don't notice or get bothered by any sort of lag. I'm not all that precise anyways.
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hummm whats a good safe GPU temperature? 60C?
I use an ATI 5770 and run everything on ultra, the temperatures look like this
VSync ON:
Normal 61-63C FPS 60 - 50
High 65-68C FPS 50 - 15 (Campaign mission with 300+PSI and mothership, destroyed my FPS)
VSync OFF:
Normal 64- 65C FPS 100 - 65
High 68-70C FPS 50 - Untested
All test results are from the campaign, which seems to be more stressful on my computer, im not knowledgeable enough to know if 70C is dangerous for my computer or not :O
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Afraid of 60C? My Crossfired HD4870's run at about 63C right now idle at 38% fan speed and I don't care. If I hit 100C the fan would automatically spins up to 100% to cool off the system. To date I've never found a game demanding enough to raise my temps by 40C. Keep in mind that 100C is still lower then the highest temperature the GPU can technically run at (something like 115C).
I'm also idling a little higher then normal because I need to blow out the dust in my 4870's fans. That will give me 10-15C lower idle temps.
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Hyrule18993 Posts
On July 28 2010 09:27 Skvid wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2010 09:17 Dr.Smoke wrote:
Reduce the load? why would anyone want to do that?
Use manual fan speed
use manual fan speed
USE MANUAL FAN SPEED
USE MANUAL FAN SPEED
I cannot begin to tell you the number of problems that result from auto fan speeds. You shouldn't need to hobble you GPU at all. Hell you have a faster card than I do, you should be running ultra HD like I do, no some pussy 60 fps, no offense. pussy 60 fps? You do realize that is quite a bit more than humans eye can register. In other words there is no need to play the game on 120 fps if you can play it on 60.
That's nowhere NEAR true.
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On July 29 2010 04:52 tofucake wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2010 09:27 Skvid wrote:On July 28 2010 09:17 Dr.Smoke wrote:
Reduce the load? why would anyone want to do that?
Use manual fan speed
use manual fan speed
USE MANUAL FAN SPEED
USE MANUAL FAN SPEED
I cannot begin to tell you the number of problems that result from auto fan speeds. You shouldn't need to hobble you GPU at all. Hell you have a faster card than I do, you should be running ultra HD like I do, no some pussy 60 fps, no offense. pussy 60 fps? You do realize that is quite a bit more than humans eye can register. In other words there is no need to play the game on 120 fps if you can play it on 60. That's nowhere NEAR true.
It can't see color but it can distinguish change/movement it's not really important though because it's barely noticeable at those speeds esp for an rts it's not a twitch shooter.
You should use V-Sync for one reason. It removes screen tearing.
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Hyrule18993 Posts
On July 29 2010 05:06 semantics wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2010 04:52 tofucake wrote:On July 28 2010 09:27 Skvid wrote:On July 28 2010 09:17 Dr.Smoke wrote:
Reduce the load? why would anyone want to do that?
Use manual fan speed
use manual fan speed
USE MANUAL FAN SPEED
USE MANUAL FAN SPEED
I cannot begin to tell you the number of problems that result from auto fan speeds. You shouldn't need to hobble you GPU at all. Hell you have a faster card than I do, you should be running ultra HD like I do, no some pussy 60 fps, no offense. pussy 60 fps? You do realize that is quite a bit more than humans eye can register. In other words there is no need to play the game on 120 fps if you can play it on 60. That's nowhere NEAR true. It can't see color but it can distinguish change/movement it's not really important though because it's barely noticeable at those speeds esp for an rts it's not a twitch shooter. You should use V-Sync for one reason. It removes screen tearing.
No, wrong again. The human eye registers different colors differently, and viewing angle also affects "fps" of the eye. This is a good article about how the human eye sees in terms of FPS.
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Vysnc is great if you consistently get over 60FPS, but it really is unnecessary. A GPU running at 60C load is perfectly fine. The GT200 core that the GTX 260 is built around can take 80C without breaking a sweat.
Just about any GPU can take 80C-90C without a problem really.
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My GPU (laptop) was running at 78ºC... so i decided to stop playing. Then i put forced vsync ON through the Nvidia control panel, and put some options to favor performance instead of quality now it hasn't gone over 65 so far.
Remember everytime your PC CPU/GPU is operating above its ideal operating temperature it is ageing much faster.
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Are high 70's and low 80's bad for my nvidia 320M? I'm on a laptop too :/ i hope playing sc2 doesnt fry my laptop
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my card was running at 100 degrees C last night. I couldnt believe it when i looked. It never did that in the beta.
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On July 28 2010 12:01 Niji87 wrote:
Pushing your hardware will only decrease its lifespan and decrease it's power gradually. Definitely less than ideal for anyone who is concerned with money.
Niji, your long post is entirely 100% correct, until you get to the part I bolded; When you say "Decrease its power" do you mean the rendering power of the GPU, or do you mean it decreases the power usage? Either way that part is incorrect. The rest of your post however is great!
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On July 28 2010 12:21 Assault_1 wrote:
my 8800gt went up to 99 degrees...
...I had to manually double the fan speed
so i've turned everything to low, except the CPU settings..i put those on ultra like effects, physics and cinematic quality, cuz they use cpu not gpu
You should turn the settings up to as high as they will go while still being able to provide the framerate you require, then you should adjust the fan speed to provide a temperature you require. You should not think you have to sacrifice visuals or performance just to lower the temperature (unless you have the fan maxed and it's still a ridiculous temperature - in which case you may have either a defective card or defective thermal paste/interface material)
--------------------------------
For everyone wondering about safe GPU temperatures, EACH CHIPSET IS DIFFERENT (different die size, different process size, different transistor count/density) - therefor "Safe" temperatures vary wildly. YOU SHOULD MOST CERTAINLY LOOK UP THE SAFE OPERATING RANGE FOR YOUR SPECIFIC GPU (or gpu family)
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Vsync is not developed for the purpose of limiting power usage/heat. It's used to keep the display from tearing, which is why it caps at 60FPS for most of you. Vsync synchronizes the framerate provided by the GPU to the refresh rate of your monitor. If you are above 60FPS, you will go to 60FPS, and if you are between 30-60FPS, you go to 30FPS.
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On July 29 2010 13:05 FragKrag wrote:
Vsync is not developed for the purpose of limiting power usage/heat. It's used to keep the display from tearing, which is why it caps at 60FPS for most of you. Vsync synchronizes the framerate provided by the GPU to the refresh rate of your monitor. If you are above 60FPS, you will go to 60FPS, and if you are between 30-60FPS, you go to 30FPS.
This is exactly why I've capped and V-sync'd. The screen tearing bothers me to no end when Mouse scrolling- and if I notice in a game- it can really distract my attention. As anyone knows who plays Starcraft, 1 or 2 seconds thinking about how bad your screen just folded can cost you quite a bit.
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I just really want to iterate that if you're running under 60FPS, V-sync will hurt performance and lower it further. If you're over 60FPS, I recommend it on, as it smooths out tearing.
Yes, the human eye can theoretically see over 200FPS; the human eye can also detect a single photon of light, but how well can you see in the dark? You're limited by how much your brain can perceive, and 60FPS is perfect for Starcraft.
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65 temp and you say it's hot? Come on, it's very good temp,
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Anyone else get issues with static when SC2 is running ?
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On July 29 2010 15:10 Wolf wrote:
Anyone else get issues with static when SC2 is running ?
That's artifacting i'd downclock your gpu.
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Could just be that his audio connector isn't well shielded and he never notices it outside of SC2?
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I took it as Snow on the screen, not static noise.
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oh hahahaha
It could also be overheating then?
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1. Eyes can tell up to at least 140 FPS, there is a drastic and perceptible difference between 60 FPS and 140 FPS. (Haven't tested any other frame rates)
2. Monitors can refresh up to 160 if you have an old CRT monitor, and up to 120 if you have one of the new LCDs.
3. V-Sync increases screen tearing most of the times. It cuts out frames to cap the framerate giving a less smooth image.
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Refresh rate for CRT and LCD are drastically different things.
Remember a CRT is shotting a beam that is drawing lines on your monitor an LCD is just changing a pixel
V-Sync increases screen tearing most of the times
That statement is so wrong it's just sad, Screen tearing occurs due to your monitor receiving an image and being told to draw a new one before it can finish the old one. V-Sync syncs up that process so one frame by gpu = one frame by monitor for LCD's, tearing caused by lack of monition blur is v-sync fault.
Also you could probably tell 500fps but in 1/500th of 1 second is far far far far less then your natural lag caused by you perceiving the screen and then generating a response to it.
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On July 28 2010 09:27 Skvid wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2010 09:17 Dr.Smoke wrote:
Reduce the load? why would anyone want to do that?
Use manual fan speed
use manual fan speed
USE MANUAL FAN SPEED
USE MANUAL FAN SPEED
I cannot begin to tell you the number of problems that result from auto fan speeds. You shouldn't need to hobble you GPU at all. Hell you have a faster card than I do, you should be running ultra HD like I do, no some pussy 60 fps, no offense. pussy 60 fps? You do realize that is quite a bit more than humans eye can register. In other words there is no need to play the game on 120 fps if you can play it on 60.
This is such a load of misquoted, misunderstood bullshit. There is no such evidence whatsoever, and the difference between 60Hz/120Hz monitors at 120fps are extremely visible. Lets be factual.
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Eh.... reduce gpu load to reduce temperature? That's retarded. What about other games that use plenty of the gpu? Either get better cooling for your computer case, get a better graphics card, or manually raise the fan speed. On my Powercolor HD5870 PCS+ it's never ever goes above 60C in SC2. When it's really hot outside games like BC2 push it up to 65C.
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On July 29 2010 10:49 PcChip wrote:
For everyone wondering about safe GPU temperatures, EACH CHIPSET IS DIFFERENT (different die size, different process size, different transistor count/density) - therefor "Safe" temperatures vary wildly. YOU SHOULD MOST CERTAINLY LOOK UP THE SAFE OPERATING RANGE FOR YOUR SPECIFIC GPU (or gpu family)
That's true, but most people are freaking out over temps not even close to their card's max safe temps.
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What is the default value of this, incase it doesn't do anything or, maybe even reducing performance?(who knows)
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Hyrule18993 Posts
Default value of GPU temperatures? There's too many factors for there to be a standard (as has been stated previously). Most cards are completely fine up to 80C. Plenty can handle more, but IIRC just about all can handle 80 just fine.
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Nah i meant the default value for frameratecap
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i play sc2 with around 30 fps...but my video card isn't really that great...
am i missing something here?
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So I manually set my fan to 70% and I'm pretty satisfied in the 60-70 range (during sc2), but if cooler is better, what are the disadvantages of just setting the fan speed to 100% besides noise and a higher electric bill?
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On July 29 2010 21:14 Jackcolt wrote:
Eh.... reduce gpu load to reduce temperature? That's retarded. What about other games that use plenty of the gpu? Either get better cooling for your computer case, get a better graphics card, or manually raise the fan speed. On my Powercolor HD5870 PCS+ it's never ever goes above 60C in SC2. When it's really hot outside games like BC2 push it up to 65C.
lol
Ya, no card has ever burned out by being overloaded. Trying to limit the load, just retarded. My bad.
edit: oh Shit! Epic first post BTW.
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On July 30 2010 02:42 cursor wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2010 21:14 Jackcolt wrote:
Eh.... reduce gpu load to reduce temperature? That's retarded. What about other games that use plenty of the gpu? Either get better cooling for your computer case, get a better graphics card, or manually raise the fan speed. On my Powercolor HD5870 PCS+ it's never ever goes above 60C in SC2. When it's really hot outside games like BC2 push it up to 65C. lol Ya, no card has ever burned out by being overloaded. Trying to limit the load, just retarded. My bad. edit: oh Shit! Epic first post BTW.
Reducing the load to lower temps is counterintuitive and generally not the best thing to do. It is only avoiding the problem. If you want lower temps, you should check for dust in your heatsinks, and/or ramp up the fan speed before gaming.
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My GPU reach 76°C when i play sc2 and 75°C for the CPUs.
Is it standard?
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Hyrule18993 Posts
That's pretty reasonable probably. What GPU & CPU do you have?
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A Core 2 Duo P7350@2.00Ghz and an NVIDIA GT 240M.
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Hyrule18993 Posts
Yeah you're fine. Start worrying around 85 or 90 (90 is listed max operating for P7350).
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how do I find GPU temperature?
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You can use CPUID HWMonitor it's a freeware.
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I have an ATI 4850 and I've never seen the fan working at maximum speed until I started playing sc2.
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On July 28 2010 09:27 Skvid wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2010 09:17 Dr.Smoke wrote:
Reduce the load? why would anyone want to do that?
Use manual fan speed
use manual fan speed
USE MANUAL FAN SPEED
USE MANUAL FAN SPEED
I cannot begin to tell you the number of problems that result from auto fan speeds. You shouldn't need to hobble you GPU at all. Hell you have a faster card than I do, you should be running ultra HD like I do, no some pussy 60 fps, no offense. pussy 60 fps? You do realize that is quite a bit more than humans eye can register. In other words there is no need to play the game on 120 fps if you can play it on 60.
No matter how many doctors or science professionals tell me this, it doesn't change the fact that I can solidly tell the difference between 60 and 120 FPS. It's not a question of how many frames per second your eyes can register, it's a question of how often the image on the screen is being updated to match what has changed in the game code in the last interval of time. If your eyes only register 20 unique frames each second, then all the more important that those 20 be as up to date as possible. I know I may sound ignorant with that last line, but it's all I can do to tell you it makes a difference, for certain. Playing TF2 with silky smooth buttery 100+ FPS has systemic benefits throughout the user input hardware. Mouse movement feels more responsive because there are more unique time intervals being accurately represented on the screen. Trust me broham! Oh, it's also worth saying that when rendering load increases, you'll experience less noticeable "lags" or stuttering if your default FPS is high enough that stutters are only dropping you into the 60s.
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My laptop Geforce 240M gets up to 80c while running Starcraft 2.
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On July 29 2010 13:05 FragKrag wrote:
Vsync is not developed for the purpose of limiting power usage/heat. It's used to keep the display from tearing, which is why it caps at 60FPS for most of you. Vsync synchronizes the framerate provided by the GPU to the refresh rate of your monitor. If you are above 60FPS, you will go to 60FPS, and if you are between 30-60FPS, you go to 30FPS.
If you are over the refresh rate of your monitor, it is capped at the refresh rate of your monitor. However, if you are "between 30-60 FPS" , you will most certainly not "go to 30 FPS", that's quite incorrect.
Each time a frame is ready to be rendered, it simply waits for the next monitor refresh cycle (instead of rendering it immediately, which would result in "Tearing")
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On July 30 2010 10:27 Gedrah wrote:
No matter how many doctors or science professionals tell me this, it doesn't change the fact that I can solidly tell the difference between 60 and 120 FPS. It's not a question of how many frames per second your eyes can register, it's a question of how often the image on the screen is being updated to match what has changed in the game code in the last interval of time. If your eyes only register 20 unique frames each second, then all the more important that those 20 be as up to date as possible. I know I may sound ignorant with that last line, but it's all I can do to tell you it makes a difference, for certain. Playing TF2 with silky smooth buttery 100+ FPS has systemic benefits throughout the user input hardware. Mouse movement feels more responsive because there are more unique time intervals being accurately represented on the screen. Trust me broham! Oh, it's also worth saying that when rendering load increases, you'll experience less noticeable "lags" or stuttering if your default FPS is high enough that stutters are only dropping you into the 60s.
This is entirely 100% correct, and it makes me really miss using my old CRT for gaming 
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Hyrule18993 Posts
Why? CRTs refresh at about 17ms, and most LCD screens these days are 5ms (there are 2ms as well). It really doesn't matter anymore. Before these new screens, though....LCDs were awful for games. Especially games where you need to be frameperfect (fighters) to do things.
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On July 30 2010 22:41 tofucake wrote:
Why? CRTs refresh at about 17ms
Where did you come up with that number?
CRT's could quite easily do 120 Hz, some did 150 Hz and even higher, so your quote about 17ms CRT response time is not correct.
The response time in milliseconds that LCD manufacturers give today are pretty much useless. They represent the best possible scenario, and only a Gray-to-Gray transition (not black-white-black , or others for example)
Manufacturers pretty much lie (greatly exaggerate) the LCD response times in much the same way as the escalating "Contrast Ratio" Wars (some are claiming infinity now!)
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I vacuum and clean the inside of my computer regularly :D
Also, I make sure the air flow goes right over the top of the cards and all in 1 direction like it's supposed to.
My processor fan is sweet- but idk wtf is going on inside the GTX260... its all covered up...
+ Show Spoiler +
I'll assume everything is going to plan in there o.o
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On July 31 2010 15:17 cursor wrote:I vacuum and clean the inside of my computer regularly :D Also, I make sure the air flow goes right over the top of the cards and all in 1 direction like it's supposed to. My processor fan is sweet- but idk wtf is going on inside the GTX260... its all covered up... + Show Spoiler +I'll assume everything is going to plan in there o.o
I hope your using a proper low power vacuum, else i just use compressed air.
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On July 30 2010 12:41 PcChip wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2010 13:05 FragKrag wrote:
Vsync is not developed for the purpose of limiting power usage/heat. It's used to keep the display from tearing, which is why it caps at 60FPS for most of you. Vsync synchronizes the framerate provided by the GPU to the refresh rate of your monitor. If you are above 60FPS, you will go to 60FPS, and if you are between 30-60FPS, you go to 30FPS. If you are over the refresh rate of your monitor, it is capped at the refresh rate of your monitor. However, if you are "between 30-60 FPS" , you will most certainly not "go to 30 FPS", that's quite incorrect. Each time a frame is ready to be rendered, it simply waits for the next monitor refresh cycle (instead of rendering it immediately, which would result in "Tearing")
Vsync uses a rule which essentially dictates that the back buffer can't go to the frame buffer until immediately after a refresh.
So if you are capable of getting 45 FPS on a 60Hz monitor, then every time the monitor refreshes, you draw 3/4th of the picture, but you can't display that picture because it isn't complete, so the monitor is forced to wait.
So monitor is refreshed, it grabs 1 frame. Everything is ok, but then the GPU is only capable of drawing 3/4th of the frame, so the monitor refreshes and nothing is done. So far, 2 refreshes, 1 frame drawn. Then it finishes drawing the second frame, and the monitor refreshes, displaying the second frame, and drawing 3/4th of the 3rd frame. It refreshes and nothing is changed because the 3rd frame isn't complete. So far, 4 refreshes, 2 frames. And this process repeats itself.
Vsync is a relic from the days of CRT anyways. Not sure why anyone would ever use it
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Didn't see anyone delve into this so I'd add that the most common problem I've had with video cards overheating was due to the fan speed. Most of these newer cards today will not run at 100% fan speed which they really should when they're being heavily taxed.
I've had serious issues specifically with some semi-recent Nvidia cards not speeding up the fan at all regardless of temperature or gpu utilization. Even using the application supplied by Nvidia drivers to control the fan speed manually wouldn't work properly and would take the speed right back to the default 30%. (This was a driver issue in XP-64bit for specific boards which they never fixed.) The following programs should suffice to keep you aware and in control of your video card.
EVGA Precision - pretty certain this will work with non-evga cards to control and monitor fan speed and temperatures.
Riva Tuner {fanspeed guide}- should do the same as the above but its a little more convoluted I would caution not to mess with anything you don't understand.
MSI Afterburner - I currently use this in my ati 5770, its a very nice interface and keeps a constant graph going of all the stats you should need for your card. I'm just not certain it'll work with all brands of cards.
The point that needs to be driven home though is to always keep an eye on both your fan speed and gpu temperature in any game (excluding brood war of course  ).
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I'm really worried about my gpu temp now. I have an HD4870 - after a 3 hour session SC2 system rebooted unexpectedly. Looking at GPU temp now after just internet browsing its at 80 degrees. That's....really high....
I don't think the case has very good ventilation. Guess I'm going to look at fans on Monday :X but have never installed one/wouldn't know where to start.
actually the report from speedfan:
temp1: 55c
temp2: 71c
temp3: 81c (gpu)
hd0 63c <--- REALLY high?!?!
core: 53c
what should I do in this situation? am I just in a constant redzone?
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Hyrule18993 Posts
63-70 is pretty normal for most computer parts.
Anyway, fans are pretty simple. What case do you have?
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On August 01 2010 01:54 251 wrote:
I'm really worried about my gpu temp now. I have an HD4870 - after a 3 hour session SC2 system rebooted unexpectedly. Looking at GPU temp now after just internet browsing its at 80 degrees. That's....really high....
I don't think the case has very good ventilation. Guess I'm going to look at fans on Monday :X but have never installed one/wouldn't know where to start.
actually the report from speedfan:
temp1: 55c
temp2: 71c
temp3: 81c (gpu)
hd0 63c <--- REALLY high?!?!
core: 53c
what should I do in this situation? am I just in a constant redzone?
what are you using to monitor temps? Try HWMonitor if you haven't already because that looks like SpeedFan temps.
If HD0 is a Hard Drive (not sure what it is), then check the SMART status of your hard drive as well. 63C is really high for a desktop HDD. 60C is normally around the temperature you want to stay below for HDDs I think.
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As FragKrag said, HD0 is a hard drive and 63C is really high for a standard desktop HD. At 20C air temperature you'd expect 30C idle for a recent drive with reasonable case ventilation . This suggests that your case ventilation is seriously inadequate. In the short term you should open the case before something cooks itself.
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On August 01 2010 04:53 FragKrag wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2010 01:54 251 wrote:
I'm really worried about my gpu temp now. I have an HD4870 - after a 3 hour session SC2 system rebooted unexpectedly. Looking at GPU temp now after just internet browsing its at 80 degrees. That's....really high....
I don't think the case has very good ventilation. Guess I'm going to look at fans on Monday :X but have never installed one/wouldn't know where to start.
actually the report from speedfan:
temp1: 55c
temp2: 71c
temp3: 81c (gpu)
hd0 63c <--- REALLY high?!?!
core: 53c
what should I do in this situation? am I just in a constant redzone? what are you using to monitor temps? Try HWMonitor if you haven't already because that looks like SpeedFan temps. If HD0 is a Hard Drive (not sure what it is), then check the SMART status of your hard drive as well. 63C is really high for a desktop HDD. 60C is normally around the temperature you want to stay below for HDDs I think.
I checked out HWMonitor. Here's the readout.
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/H0rr2.jpg)
I bought this computer from lilsusie so it has this really pink flowery case on it. I can't find any model number information on it. The front of the case however is completely flat. You see the harddrive on the bottom in front and I just noticed a 120mm fan sitting in front of it wedged against the front of the case, and I don't think its connected and has nowhere to blow from.... Anyway I think its obvious the case has a severe lack of fans/ventilation...
How do I check SMART status? Thanks for the help all.
edit: connected the fan that was in front of the hard drive. If it wasn't on before, it's on now. I have the computer on its side with the case opened up. Gonna leave it like this for a bit then check temps again..
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On July 31 2010 17:06 FragKrag wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2010 12:41 PcChip wrote:On July 29 2010 13:05 FragKrag wrote:
Vsync is not developed for the purpose of limiting power usage/heat. It's used to keep the display from tearing, which is why it caps at 60FPS for most of you. Vsync synchronizes the framerate provided by the GPU to the refresh rate of your monitor. If you are above 60FPS, you will go to 60FPS, and if you are between 30-60FPS, you go to 30FPS. If you are over the refresh rate of your monitor, it is capped at the refresh rate of your monitor. However, if you are "between 30-60 FPS" , you will most certainly not "go to 30 FPS", that's quite incorrect. Each time a frame is ready to be rendered, it simply waits for the next monitor refresh cycle (instead of rendering it immediately, which would result in "Tearing") Vsync uses a rule which essentially dictates that the back buffer can't go to the frame buffer until immediately after a refresh. So if you are capable of getting 45 FPS on a 60Hz monitor, then every time the monitor refreshes, you draw 3/4th of the picture, but you can't display that picture because it isn't complete, so the monitor is forced to wait. So monitor is refreshed, it grabs 1 frame. Everything is ok, but then the GPU is only capable of drawing 3/4th of the frame, so the monitor refreshes and nothing is done. So far, 2 refreshes, 1 frame drawn. Then it finishes drawing the second frame, and the monitor refreshes, displaying the second frame, and drawing 3/4th of the 3rd frame. It refreshes and nothing is changed because the 3rd frame isn't complete. So far, 4 refreshes, 2 frames. And this process repeats itself. Vsync is a relic from the days of CRT anyways. Not sure why anyone would ever use it
I'm sorry but that's not correct. I have actually programmed Direct3D / DirectDraw applications before; when the frame has been drawn to the backbuffer and is ready to be flipped to the main buffer (backbuffer->flip or device->present) , if the screen is currently in the middle of a refresh, it WAITS until that refresh is DONE, then draws it to the screen. So on the VERY NEXT REFRESH (which is 1/60th of a second on most LCD's) it shows your newly updated scene. Therefore you can have any FPS from 1-60, it does not "automatically cap it to either 30 or 60".
Also, VSync is not simply a relic left over from the CRT days; Even on LCD's many people can't stand the tearing (myself included)
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ahhh cool, gonna check this out at home later. My laptop has felt like it's on fire.
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3861 Posts
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I just ordered a new heatsink + a couple fans to go on my 8800GT. I couldn't play more than about 20 minutes of single player missions before I would get artifacts and lock up. I downloaded msi afterburner and set fan speed to 100% as well as underclocking it (the card was factory overclocked) but it still would crash.
It's odd because I didn't have this problem with the beta. Also the crash happens during gameplay not during cutscenes. I've cleaned out my computer of dust and I've also edited that file to cap the framerate.
Edit: I'm idling at ~63 C and after 10 minutes or so of of game time it spikes to ~100C
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On August 03 2010 10:07 Incite wrote:
I just ordered a new heatsink + a couple fans to go on my 8800GT. I couldn't play more than about 20 minutes of single player missions before I would get artifacts and lock up. I downloaded msi afterburner and set fan speed to 100% as well as underclocking it (the card was factory overclocked) but it still would crash.
It's odd because I didn't have this problem with the beta. Also the crash happens during gameplay not during cutscenes. I've cleaned out my computer of dust and I've also edited that file to cap the framerate.
Edit: I'm idling at ~63 C and after 10 minutes or so of of game time it spikes to ~100C
The 8800GT is a hot card but 100c is near the thermal limit, try cleaning it or see if you can replace the thermal paste if it uses it. although that with that idle temp it doesn't seem like its dirty
Try to get the card to 85c
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i have a 5770 and it barely goes over 60c my system is really cool. xD
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On August 02 2010 03:08 PcChip wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 17:06 FragKrag wrote:On July 30 2010 12:41 PcChip wrote:On July 29 2010 13:05 FragKrag wrote:
Vsync is not developed for the purpose of limiting power usage/heat. It's used to keep the display from tearing, which is why it caps at 60FPS for most of you. Vsync synchronizes the framerate provided by the GPU to the refresh rate of your monitor. If you are above 60FPS, you will go to 60FPS, and if you are between 30-60FPS, you go to 30FPS. If you are over the refresh rate of your monitor, it is capped at the refresh rate of your monitor. However, if you are "between 30-60 FPS" , you will most certainly not "go to 30 FPS", that's quite incorrect. Each time a frame is ready to be rendered, it simply waits for the next monitor refresh cycle (instead of rendering it immediately, which would result in "Tearing") Vsync uses a rule which essentially dictates that the back buffer can't go to the frame buffer until immediately after a refresh. So if you are capable of getting 45 FPS on a 60Hz monitor, then every time the monitor refreshes, you draw 3/4th of the picture, but you can't display that picture because it isn't complete, so the monitor is forced to wait. So monitor is refreshed, it grabs 1 frame. Everything is ok, but then the GPU is only capable of drawing 3/4th of the frame, so the monitor refreshes and nothing is done. So far, 2 refreshes, 1 frame drawn. Then it finishes drawing the second frame, and the monitor refreshes, displaying the second frame, and drawing 3/4th of the 3rd frame. It refreshes and nothing is changed because the 3rd frame isn't complete. So far, 4 refreshes, 2 frames. And this process repeats itself. Vsync is a relic from the days of CRT anyways. Not sure why anyone would ever use it I'm sorry but that's not correct. I have actually programmed Direct3D / DirectDraw applications before; when the frame has been drawn to the backbuffer and is ready to be flipped to the main buffer (backbuffer->flip or device->present) , if the screen is currently in the middle of a refresh, it WAITS until that refresh is DONE, then draws it to the screen. So on the VERY NEXT REFRESH (which is 1/60th of a second on most LCD's) it shows your newly updated scene. Therefore you can have any FPS from 1-60, it does not "automatically cap it to either 30 or 60". Also, VSync is not simply a relic left over from the CRT days; Even on LCD's many people can't stand the tearing (myself included)
Yes, but the problem is that it isn't flipped to the main buffer because the image isn't complete! Any gamer who has activated Vsync should know that it will cap FPS at 60-30-15-7.5 etc. Dragon Age can use vsync and the result of it is a steady 30FPS, so unless Vsync has advanced extremely quickly in the past year I doubt it would be any different.
251/Lilsusie: That case has very weird airflow. A fan pulls air from the front and another exhausts it from the back which is straight forward, but it also mounts a PSU in the front. Normally, PSU fans are designed to pull air in and exhaust it out the back so it has a fan in the front exhausting air and a fan intaking air.
I don't even know where the hard drive is mounted :/
If a fan isn't working, then you will have to get it in working condition ASAP. 58C on a HDD is a bit dangerous and will likely (HDD lifetimes are all a probability anyways) reduce the lifespan of your HDD. My HDDs are currently running at 30C, and they never go over 35C.
Use http://www.passmark.com/products/diskcheckup.htm
to check (and monitor) the SMART status of your HDD
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On August 03 2010 10:07 Incite wrote:
I just ordered a new heatsink + a couple fans to go on my 8800GT. I couldn't play more than about 20 minutes of single player missions before I would get artifacts and lock up. I downloaded msi afterburner and set fan speed to 100% as well as underclocking it (the card was factory overclocked) but it still would crash.
It's odd because I didn't have this problem with the beta. Also the crash happens during gameplay not during cutscenes. I've cleaned out my computer of dust and I've also edited that file to cap the framerate.
Edit: I'm idling at ~63 C and after 10 minutes or so of of game time it spikes to ~100C
Have you checked the inside of the GPU heatsink for dust?
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The one thing I've noticed with all these threads is that all the posts complaining about overheating are from the northern hemisphere where it's currently summer.
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Lol we should just put a sticky up:
Post HWMonitor + Realtemp pictures before we do anything else. I mean seriously, some of these almost seem like lost causes, that require a total rebuild. I suppose if it takes SC2 for people to start taking better care of their hardware, I'll be glad.
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On August 04 2010 13:36 mav451 wrote:
Lol we should just put a sticky up:
Post HWMonitor + Realtemp pictures before we do anything else. I mean seriously, some of these almost seem like lost causes, that require a total rebuild. I suppose if it takes SC2 for people to start taking better care of their hardware, I'll be glad.
Well this is a sc1 site before it had sc2 where a ton of ppl where playing on 10 year old comps or laptops.
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My emphasis was more on poor case airflow. You would think that we've moved on from poor case design, but somehow those cases are still being sold.
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On August 04 2010 13:51 mav451 wrote:
My emphasis was more on poor case airflow. You would think that we've moved on from poor case design, but somehow those cases are still being sold.
even causes with good airflow design dont always have the best fans or even fans supplied for the job,
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Well most of the time if the case is designed correctly, the packaged fans should work fine.
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EPT
