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On October 16 2026 03:04 Xsnac1 wrote:
I have a genius idea to bring StarCraft 2 back. randomize worker count start. from 4 to 16 workers start, random every game. bring back creativity, destroy mechanical dinosaurs!!!
This can only be balanced in mirror matchups. Just because the amount of starting income at 12 workers is balanced doesn't mean the amount at a different worker count is balanced - that's why so many other changes like CC cost and others were put in at 8 workers.
Randomized worker counts would be an imbalanced mess.
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On October 16 2026 21:42 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
The first 2 minutes of play with a 6 worker start are not great amounts of fun. Red Alert 3 and C&C 3 are both far more fun in the first 2 minutes. Red Alert 3 is more fun than Brood War and SC2 (with 6 workers) in the first two minutes.
I play to have fun and I have limited spare time. I work and shitpost all day long... i'm a busy man! Its why I started playing retro arcade games. Instant fun. No downloading ... no synching with a server... no patches.. no research... nothing. No damage formulae.
These days my game rotation is circa 1982. Robot Tank, River Raid, MegaMania, Activision Ice Hockey, Pitfall!.
Instant fun and then I'm done. I signed up to the Atari Discord.
I'll give SC2 a try again... if it takes too long to get to the fun part I'm going back to the retro games that offer instant fun... and you can end your play session at whatever instant you feel like.
And you don't mention Aero fighters 2?
For me it's more that i recently looked at 2014 games and it felt like we were seeing real "builds".
But it's true they were skipping first 2 minutes.
Thing is low worker count works on bw because everything is already so hard, 4p maps, mineral manual rally, hard worker wars, tough building placement.
In SC2 you really quickly hit the ceiling of those 3 first minutes.
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On October 16 2026 21:42 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
The first 2 minutes of play with a 6 worker start are not great amounts of fun. Red Alert 3 and C&C 3 are both far more fun in the first 2 minutes. Red Alert 3 is more fun than Brood War and SC2 (with 6 workers) in the first two minutes.
I play to have fun and I have limited spare time. I work and shitpost all day long... i'm a busy man! Its why I started playing retro arcade games. Instant fun. No downloading ... no synching with a server... no patches.. no research... nothing. No damage formulae.
These days my game rotation is circa 1982. Robot Tank, River Raid, MegaMania, Activision Ice Hockey, Pitfall!.
Instant fun and then I'm done. I signed up to the Atari Discord.
I'll give SC2 a try again... if it takes too long to get to the fun part I'm going back to the retro games that offer instant fun... and you can end your play session at whatever instant you feel like.
Just to clarify this: This is 100% "personal preference". Which isn't bad, by all means, play whatever tickles your pickle. But SC2 might just not be for you then.
I grew up on basically all the great RTS except BW. The Settlers 2+3 (if you want to call that RTS), AoE 2, C&C and finally Warcraft 3. I also played a lot of SC2, AoE 4, all the C&C Red Alerts, Dawn of War, Iron Harvest, gave BW a shot...and I can safely say that I detest the "little to no base-building" concept. It's just not for me. And if you look at the history of Esports and succesful RTS I think I can say with a lot of confidence that I'm not a minority here.
Don't get me wrong, stuff like Command&Conquer, Dawn of War or Company of Heroes will always have a fanbase. But there is basically no tactical depth. There is very little in terms of Micro. It isn't particualy exciting. Yes, they start with a bigger "bang" than Starcraft, Warcraft or AoE, but that little bang at the start is basically all they've got.
And I'm glad you specified RA3 and C&C3...because I recently watched a german tournament for RA1, there seems to be quite an active tournament scene...well, considering there are like 40 people playing it globally. Anyway, in that tournament, they had a Ceasefire at the start to make the games more interesting. And if I recall, that Ceasefire was a whopping 30 minutes(!). So for 30 minutes, both players are not allowed to attack each other, they can only scout and build up their economy. I watched an entire 8-player-bracket of that stuff, with Bo3 in the end I think. Lets just say the shoutcasters, who gave their very best, run out of stuff to talk about after the Quarter Finals...
And no, these Ceasefires are not unusual for old games. If I recall, in the "competitive" The Settler (3 and 4) scene there are even hour-long ceasefires to build up, only for the actual "game" then lasting like 10 minutes.
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i am happy 
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Viewership on twitch has completely tanked, no one is streaming the game anymore, when I do play there's no one of coherency actually playing.
You better hope that November patch isn't awful.
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A patch is needed more than ever. The current meta is terrible—arguably the worst in the history of SC2.
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On October 21 2026 21:37 BlackEyed wrote:
A patch is needed more than ever. The current meta is terrible—arguably the worst in the history of SC2.
You haven't played Wings of Liberty with brood lord/infestor and archons in vortex (a.k.a. archon toilet). This was truly boring meta.
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I came back for the 8 worker start. I thought it was pretty good. It felt like starcraft 2 wol/hots in which economic management and economic punishment had an actual effect on the game. I think the 12 worker start is similar to what Fastest Map Possible was in brood war. 12 worker start speeds up the game removing many windows for timings, builds/variety and economic punishment in general. Not really my cup of tea. If blizzard ever decides to do another 6 or 8 worker start patch i'd play it. 12 worker start just removes too many elements from the game to keep me interested.
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I prefer 8 worker, but the playerbase does not.
I think we should be thinking of 2017 starcraft as the peak and try to revert changes almost exclusively, unless you can do a change that will make the game feel more like 2017 but is new.
And I've had enough of qol changes and actually think we would be way better off without f2 for melee.
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On October 26 2026 21:21 ejozl wrote:
I prefer 8 worker, but the playerbase does not.
I think we should be thinking of 2017 starcraft as the peak and try to revert changes almost exclusively, unless you can do a change that will make the game feel more like 2017 but is new.
And I've had enough of qol changes and actually think we would be way better off without f2 for melee.
2017 was the nydus worm spam era. the real peak was 2018, the patch in which serral won blizzcon, he won that on pure skill alone, the game was very balanced and fun in that patch.
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On October 16 2026 14:58 AssyrianKing wrote:
Honest to God, I stopped playing when 12 workers came out, and I came back when I heard they lowered workers again and I got full excited. Shame they put it back up again. I just wish the game was more similar to Broodwar.
ya, we've all been wishing that since 2010.
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As some others already have pointed out, I've been very excited about them finally willing to experiment with lowering the starting worker count again, but the way they went about this could not have been handled in a much worse way, so back to square 1.
As much as I'd like to make the switch to BW, which with the latest SB changes should be easier than ever, I'm an SC2 player and prefer the improved UX of that game.
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Well no the game was too lopsided, no race had a chance late game vs. rocket launcher terrans and broods + viper. Toss was very fickle in general without mship core.
I also don't mean that we should have invinciwurms, mship core and stuff, I'm happy with energy overcharge, but the way the games played out. It was very varied, with always something to do, cheese, big armies, loads of tactics. It was balanced and with lots of champions for each race.
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On October 21 2026 21:37 BlackEyed wrote:
A patch is needed more than ever. The current meta is terrible—arguably the worst in the history of SC2.
Agreed, skill expression is completely in the toilet. I can't believe that protoss's are running around pretending they are good spamming shield batteries, mana recharge, and oracles dominating games they play.
I am so sick and tired of new-gen blizzard's " Vision " of less skill expression and more accessibility to players.
StarCraft is a game of skill, always has been always will be. They wonder why the overall numbers have plummeted over the years.
The game rewards newbies, and low skill players, and it's really starting to get under my skin, to the point where I've gone back to SC1 full time.
Think about that for a second, their ONLY streamer who through the highs, and lows, could always stomach playing the game 8-12 hours a day, GONE 2 days after reverting the game back to such an abysmal state.
Thank god for Shield Battery, otherwise it would have been GG later on.
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On October 27 2026 06:17 ProTech wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2026 21:37 BlackEyed wrote:
A patch is needed more than ever. The current meta is terrible—arguably the worst in the history of SC2. Agreed, skill expression is completely in the toilet. I can't believe that protoss's are running around pretending they are good spamming shield batteries, mana recharge, and oracles dominating games they play. I am so sick and tired of new-gen blizzard's " Vision " of less skill expression and more accessibility to players. StarCraft is a game of skill, always has been always will be. They wonder why the overall numbers have plummeted over the years. The game rewards newbies, and low skill players, and it's really starting to get under my skin, to the point where I've gone back to SC1 full time. Think about that for a second, their ONLY streamer who through the highs, and lows, could always stomach playing the game 8-12 hours a day, GONE 2 days after reverting the game back to such an abysmal state. Thank god for Shield Battery, otherwise it would have been GG later on.
Hopefully a future patch will deal with the ability of people to drop games and ruin the ladder experience for others. I won't rehash that because you know where I stand with that regarding you.
I must admit though, my friend and I have really been enjoying Shield Battery. He plays it a lot more than I do and he got me into it. He's currently number 2 on the 2v2 BGH ladder. I hope to get to top 5 at least there soon.
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On October 27 2026 08:34 Hefty-Leopard-5240 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2026 06:17 ProTech wrote:On October 21 2026 21:37 BlackEyed wrote:
A patch is needed more than ever. The current meta is terrible—arguably the worst in the history of SC2. Agreed, skill expression is completely in the toilet. I can't believe that protoss's are running around pretending they are good spamming shield batteries, mana recharge, and oracles dominating games they play. I am so sick and tired of new-gen blizzard's " Vision " of less skill expression and more accessibility to players. StarCraft is a game of skill, always has been always will be. They wonder why the overall numbers have plummeted over the years. The game rewards newbies, and low skill players, and it's really starting to get under my skin, to the point where I've gone back to SC1 full time. Think about that for a second, their ONLY streamer who through the highs, and lows, could always stomach playing the game 8-12 hours a day, GONE 2 days after reverting the game back to such an abysmal state. Thank god for Shield Battery, otherwise it would have been GG later on. Hopefully a future patch will deal with the ability of people to drop games and ruin the ladder experience for others. I won't rehash that because you know where I stand with that regarding you. I must admit though, my friend and I have really been enjoying Shield Battery. He plays it a lot more than I do and he got me into it. He's currently number 2 on the 2v2 BGH ladder. I hope to get to top 5 at least there soon.
rank4 but thanks for asking
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On October 27 2026 06:17 ProTech wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2026 21:37 BlackEyed wrote:
A patch is needed more than ever. The current meta is terrible—arguably the worst in the history of SC2. Agreed, skill expression is completely in the toilet. I can't believe that protoss's are running around pretending they are good spamming shield batteries, mana recharge, and oracles dominating games they play. I am so sick and tired of new-gen blizzard's " Vision " of less skill expression and more accessibility to players. StarCraft is a game of skill, always has been always will be. They wonder why the overall numbers have plummeted over the years. The game rewards newbies, and low skill players, and it's really starting to get under my skin, to the point where I've gone back to SC1 full time. Think about that for a second, their ONLY streamer who through the highs, and lows, could always stomach playing the game 8-12 hours a day, GONE 2 days after reverting the game back to such an abysmal state. Thank god for Shield Battery, otherwise it would have been GG later on.
Is there any chance you could humbly stop sucking your own dick in every post? It feels like every post has at least one snippet about the fact that you've played the most games, have the most something, etc. Only small-minded people need to continuously remind everyone that they are the top of something, and as a relative outside observer, shit is getting annoying. You can discuss something without having to give the basics of your StarCraft CV, which tbh I wouldn't be sharing if I've won nothing and operate as a self-proclaimed cheese master (which is why you have the most games, allegedly, not that anyone cares to check).
Back in ICCup era of BW there was this player named mishin. He had the most games for several seasons IIRC. He was also an all-in cheeser who only climbed to like C- when new scoring metrics favored activity on MotW, but he was really a D- player. At least he had the decency to not try to proclaim he is a GOAT in something other than free time and all-ins.
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On October 27 2026 15:29 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2026 06:17 ProTech wrote:On October 21 2026 21:37 BlackEyed wrote:
A patch is needed more than ever. The current meta is terrible—arguably the worst in the history of SC2. Agreed, skill expression is completely in the toilet. I can't believe that protoss's are running around pretending they are good spamming shield batteries, mana recharge, and oracles dominating games they play. I am so sick and tired of new-gen blizzard's " Vision " of less skill expression and more accessibility to players. StarCraft is a game of skill, always has been always will be. They wonder why the overall numbers have plummeted over the years. The game rewards newbies, and low skill players, and it's really starting to get under my skin, to the point where I've gone back to SC1 full time. Think about that for a second, their ONLY streamer who through the highs, and lows, could always stomach playing the game 8-12 hours a day, GONE 2 days after reverting the game back to such an abysmal state. Thank god for Shield Battery, otherwise it would have been GG later on. Is there any chance you could humbly stop sucking your own dick in every post? It feels like every post has at least one snippet about the fact that you've played the most games, have the most something, etc. Only small-minded people need to continuously remind everyone that they are the top of something, and as a relative outside observer, shit is getting annoying. You can discuss something without having to give the basics of your StarCraft CV, which tbh I wouldn't be sharing if I've won nothing and operate as a self-proclaimed cheese master (which is why you have the most games, allegedly, not that anyone cares to check). Back in ICCup era of BW there was this player named mishin. He had the most games for several seasons IIRC. He was also an all-in cheeser who only climbed to like C- when new scoring metrics favored activity on MotW, but he was really a D- player. At least he had the decency to not try to proclaim he is a GOAT in something other than free time and all-ins.
What are you talking about? He consistently has well over 100 viewers on his stream bro! They are so mesmerized by the high level game play that they don't even chat. It can go for hours and hours with not even a single comment. They love watching (between the 20 minutes per hour of ads) the high level game play from someone who never blames his teammates for losses or accuses them of hacking. They also love listening to him vape with the camera off. How dare you question this man!
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On October 27 2026 15:29 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2026 06:17 ProTech wrote:On October 21 2026 21:37 BlackEyed wrote:
A patch is needed more than ever. The current meta is terrible—arguably the worst in the history of SC2. Agreed, skill expression is completely in the toilet. I can't believe that protoss's are running around pretending they are good spamming shield batteries, mana recharge, and oracles dominating games they play. I am so sick and tired of new-gen blizzard's " Vision " of less skill expression and more accessibility to players. StarCraft is a game of skill, always has been always will be. They wonder why the overall numbers have plummeted over the years. The game rewards newbies, and low skill players, and it's really starting to get under my skin, to the point where I've gone back to SC1 full time. Think about that for a second, their ONLY streamer who through the highs, and lows, could always stomach playing the game 8-12 hours a day, GONE 2 days after reverting the game back to such an abysmal state. Thank god for Shield Battery, otherwise it would have been GG later on. Is there any chance you could humbly stop sucking your own dick in every post? It feels like every post has at least one snippet about the fact that you've played the most games, have the most something, etc. Only small-minded people need to continuously remind everyone that they are the top of something, and as a relative outside observer, shit is getting annoying. You can discuss something without having to give the basics of your StarCraft CV, which tbh I wouldn't be sharing if I've won nothing and operate as a self-proclaimed cheese master (which is why you have the most games, allegedly, not that anyone cares to check). Back in ICCup era of BW there was this player named mishin. He had the most games for several seasons IIRC. He was also an all-in cheeser who only climbed to like C- when new scoring metrics favored activity on MotW, but he was really a D- player. At least he had the decency to not try to proclaim he is a GOAT in something other than free time and all-ins.
im not being egotiscal, im trying to put into perspective how dumb you have to be as a game company to lose someone like me playing the game, if you've lost someone like me, you are doing something very very very wrong with the game.
the numbers speak for themselves, the game is complete dog water, and no one is playing it, nor is anyone streaming it.
starcraft is in a very fragile spot at the moment, and i'd rather not see the sail ship. I still like starcraft2 as a game, but it needs a development team to start listening to people like me, who have dedicated 20 years of their life to it as a job.
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On October 27 2026 16:02 ProTech wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2026 15:29 Jealous wrote:On October 27 2026 06:17 ProTech wrote:On October 21 2026 21:37 BlackEyed wrote:
A patch is needed more than ever. The current meta is terrible—arguably the worst in the history of SC2. Agreed, skill expression is completely in the toilet. I can't believe that protoss's are running around pretending they are good spamming shield batteries, mana recharge, and oracles dominating games they play. I am so sick and tired of new-gen blizzard's " Vision " of less skill expression and more accessibility to players. StarCraft is a game of skill, always has been always will be. They wonder why the overall numbers have plummeted over the years. The game rewards newbies, and low skill players, and it's really starting to get under my skin, to the point where I've gone back to SC1 full time. Think about that for a second, their ONLY streamer who through the highs, and lows, could always stomach playing the game 8-12 hours a day, GONE 2 days after reverting the game back to such an abysmal state. Thank god for Shield Battery, otherwise it would have been GG later on. Is there any chance you could humbly stop sucking your own dick in every post? It feels like every post has at least one snippet about the fact that you've played the most games, have the most something, etc. Only small-minded people need to continuously remind everyone that they are the top of something, and as a relative outside observer, shit is getting annoying. You can discuss something without having to give the basics of your StarCraft CV, which tbh I wouldn't be sharing if I've won nothing and operate as a self-proclaimed cheese master (which is why you have the most games, allegedly, not that anyone cares to check). Back in ICCup era of BW there was this player named mishin. He had the most games for several seasons IIRC. He was also an all-in cheeser who only climbed to like C- when new scoring metrics favored activity on MotW, but he was really a D- player. At least he had the decency to not try to proclaim he is a GOAT in something other than free time and all-ins. im not being egotiscal, im trying to put into perspective how dumb you have to be as a game company to lose someone like me playing the game, if you've lost someone like me, you are doing something very very very wrong with the game.
Fair enough. If you're not trying to do so, then maybe put a bit more effort in the opposite direction (not doing so).
At the same time, I feel like this is akin to speaking with a mech balance whiner of yesterdecade, in the sense that just because you have a fixation on some off-meta Ladder-only style, you can't really expect the whole community and the developers to bend to your will. When the majority of all parties involved would rather not entertain your ideas on balance nor how you contribute to the ladder cancer of cheesing for wins - because this all runs contrary to how everyone else wants to play the game - you can't really act surprised that people don't accept your stance on things. In fact, the reality is that most of your opponents would likely rather not have you playing at all, because you ruin the experience for them.
TL;DR: you can't be a self-admitted pariah in the scene then wonder why no one agrees with you or supports your stance. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
PS: I know you and look down on you because I was you. Back in the day in BW (putting my boomer cap on, hold up a sec) we had ICCup, Fish, Brain, etc. All private servers for the top level of play. All the cool kids played on Fish. I was a trash player who wanted to get better but I also hated losing. So I created a fool-proof system for never feeling like I lost. I would 7/7 gate PvX in the middle of FS on Fish for dozens of games. Not as many as you, but enough to know what that approach is like. I could beat anyone and lose to anyone, flip that coin. Yes, I got better at cheesing and exploiting. Yes, it led to more wins. Yes, I was done with the match within 5 minutes usually. It was my preferred method of playing, it insulated me from the potential damage to my ego because I could say "oh well, he just played safe like a bitch, it is what it is." In retrospect, the reality is that I was just an overly prideful ladder cheeser with nothing of lasting value to show for it. Look at yourself in the mirror, you will find the same.
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EPT
