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On March 06 2024 00:10 Poopi wrote:
Yeah I'm pretty sure that the final articles will be posted at the same time, since it's 99% guaranteed the two remaining players are Serral and Maru, so only posting #2 would spoil #1 immediately (sorry Dark fans).
As for Rogue, it's too bad he had to go to the military so soon, he might have prevented Maru from winning those 2 "online era" GSL, because he somehow finds a way to beat Maru even when isn't the favorite to do so
Ah that'd be interesting!
But yeah, Rogue probably would have stopped Maru most or all of the time. And if Rogue was able to keep his record over Maru, and thus have a better GSL performance than Maru from 2019 onwards, then Rogue would be my #2 above Maru. He already was my #2, until Maru won more online GSLs, though now that I'm looking back, I don't really count those online GSLs as much, because the fact also is that part of why he won those is not because he overcame Rogue but because Rogue simply wasn't competing.
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On March 06 2024 00:13 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2024 00:10 Poopi wrote:
Yeah I'm pretty sure that the final articles will be posted at the same time, since it's 99% guaranteed the two remaining players are Serral and Maru, so only posting #2 would spoil #1 immediately (sorry Dark fans).
As for Rogue, it's too bad he had to go to the military so soon, he might have prevented Maru from winning those 2 "online era" GSL, because he somehow finds a way to beat Maru even when isn't the favorite to do so Ah that'd be interesting! But yeah, Rogue probably would have stopped Maru most or all of the time. And if Rogue was able to keep his record over Maru, and thus have a better GSL performance than Maru from 2019 onwards, then Rogue would be my #2 above Maru. He already was my #2, until Maru won more online GSLs, though now that I'm looking back, I don't really count those online GSLs as much, because the fact also is that part of why he won those is not because he overcame Rogue but because Rogue simply wasn't competing.
It's not only Rogue who stopped competing, you can extend this argument to Inno, Stats, TY, Rain, soO etc, (yeah some of them are back but they are not really back). GSL just got a lot weaker.
So yes I don't count Maru's latest GSL that high either but by that logic Rogue's GSLs from 2019-2022 should also be worth less than Maru's GSLs in 2018
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On March 06 2024 00:47 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2024 00:13 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On March 06 2024 00:10 Poopi wrote:
Yeah I'm pretty sure that the final articles will be posted at the same time, since it's 99% guaranteed the two remaining players are Serral and Maru, so only posting #2 would spoil #1 immediately (sorry Dark fans).
As for Rogue, it's too bad he had to go to the military so soon, he might have prevented Maru from winning those 2 "online era" GSL, because he somehow finds a way to beat Maru even when isn't the favorite to do so Ah that'd be interesting! But yeah, Rogue probably would have stopped Maru most or all of the time. And if Rogue was able to keep his record over Maru, and thus have a better GSL performance than Maru from 2019 onwards, then Rogue would be my #2 above Maru. He already was my #2, until Maru won more online GSLs, though now that I'm looking back, I don't really count those online GSLs as much, because the fact also is that part of why he won those is not because he overcame Rogue but because Rogue simply wasn't competing. It's not only Rogue who stopped competing, you can extend this argument to Inno, Stats, TY, Rain, soO etc, (yeah some of them are back but they are not really back). GSL just got a lot weaker. So yes I don't count Maru's latest GSL that high either but by that logic Rogue's GSLs from 2019-2022 should also be worth less than Maru's GSLs in 2018
I think it's fair to say that every GSL got marginally less important from 2017-2022, and that with the recent prize pool shrink they are significantly less important now.
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On March 01 2024 20:31 LeFaucheurishere wrote:
Putting Maru in front of Rogue is an absolute shame. There is absolutely no way you can say Maru is higher in the GOAT ranking than Rogue. Outside of Korea, Maru's trophy case is literally empty, all he did was winning a wesg with 2 koreans in it in a vastly favored terran patch with ravens being absolutely op. In korea, he won easy GSLs when players started going to military and when the competition became weaker in korea and stronger in Europe.
All maru did in big international events is literally choking. Lost 3-4 against Life in Taipei 2015 ; Lost 3-4 against TY in wesg 2016 ; Lost 3-0 (!!!) when he was the overwhelming favorite at blizzcon 2018 against sos ; Reverse swept by Rogue at IEM katowice 2018 where he was, again, the overwhelming favorite ; Lost 3-2 AGAIN against Rogue in semis of kato 2020 ; Reverse swept by Reynor at kato 2021 ; Has literraly the EASIEST RUN in kato 2023 facing Ragnarok in semis and oliveira in finals and still manages to get destroyed 4-1; and got swept most recently 4-0 in finals by serral in 2024. The one and only finals he won at an international event is against Dark in 2017 and it wasn't flawless at all.
"Yeah but he is still so dominant in korea !!" ? He won GSLs because the format allows preparation and is favored for terrans. If you take is GSL ST wins, in the span of 5-6 years of GSL ST he just won ONE.
At the same time Rogue is by far the most clutch and the most dominant player in premier tournaments in history. If we just take 2017, he already won more international tournaments than Maru, with IEM shangai and Blizzcon. He went undefeated in offline tournaments from september 2017 to april 2018 with a record of 12-0 ("but rogue isn't consistent") and managed to do what no one ever did in history, by winning Blizzcon and then Katowice.
He has 2 iem Katowice, 1 blizzcon, 1 IEM shangai, undefeated in finals and never even went to game 7 in finals ; 13-1 in offline bo7s ; still has 4 GSLs and WON AGAINST MARU in GSL finals (completely dominated him).
Even if we take what many people view as one of Maru's greatest accomplishments, carrying Jin air in Proleague, it's not even that impressive. In 2015 Maru has a record of 27-15 (63%) where Rogue is at 26-14 (65%), and again, when it matters the most, Rogue is at 3-0 in ace matches and maru is at 3-2. Again, in finals against SKT, when it mattered the most, Rogue won his match against Dark while Maru lost against Dream. The only season where Maru is way above the others is 2016 and he didn't even play a single ace match.
Not to add that Maru, against the 2 real best players of all time, Rogue and serral, is at 25% (1-3) against serral in offline bo5+, and at 30% (3-7) against Rogue.
For me, esport and sport isn't about statistics, beauty or anything. It's about winning. And if we talk about winning, Maru is far, far, far below Rogue. He isn't even close. Maybe he plays well, he has an enjoyable playstyle, he is the only terran fans can support deep in tournaments, but this just doesn't change anything. Yes, he is a great player, and one of the greatest, but he is no way near Rogue's legacy.
Absolutely great post and agree with everything you mentioned
Maru accomplishment are highly overrated by his fans
What Maru did was literally the same what neeb did. They both completely dominate their “weaker” region during that specific time period. Both flame out or choke in international tournaments. Once in a while they would win an international tournament, for example, Maru winning Last Chance DH and Neeb winning Kepsa cup
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The Maru article is gonna be great based on these comments lol. He won WESG for tons of money, won wcg, he won star leagues during the peak of kr sc2. Was a great proleague player etc etc.
It's not like the dude won nothing and the fans just prop him up for no reason.
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At this point people are desperate enough to read proto-uralic texts to check whether ancient finns carved into some moss-covered nordic rocks a prophecy about serral being #1 in the great great GOAT ranking of 2024.
Miz please save us from this madness with the next article!
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On March 07 2024 04:46 Gilgamesh_ wrote:
At this point people are desperate enough to read proto-uralic texts to check whether ancient finns carved into some moss-covered nordic rocks a prophecy about serral being #1 in the great great GOAT ranking of 2024.
Miz please save us from this madness with the next article!
It was prophesied! Our GOAT from Finnland. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done! Deliver us from evil.
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Which indirectly proves that Evil = Protoss, as some people may long have suspected.
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Great article. Very intelligent player with some of the greatest bo7 win-rate ever.
From a prize pool perspective, interesting to note that:
-2012 had the highest prize pool of $4.3m, afterwards, there were ups and downs, but an overall downward trajectory
-2018 was the small peak after 2012 with $3.6m, and it has been on constant decline ever since
-2018 was also the 1st year that foreigners won more prize money than Koreans, and this would become the norm after
-Of the $40m or so total payouts, 60% went to Koreans, while 40% went to foreigners; Zerg has the highest winnings at 37%, > Protoss at just over 31%, > Terran with the lowest 31%.
Also, I am slightly sad that no Protoss is ever in contention for GOAT, and no Protoss player will be on the top 5 of this list, either.
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I feel like Miz has the opportunity to do the funniest thing and never publish #2/#1. The suspense would keep tl.net alive for years to come
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United States1961 Posts
On March 08 2024 14:17 catplanetcatplanet wrote:
I feel like Miz has the opportunity to do the funniest thing and never publish #2/#1. The suspense would keep tl.net alive for years to come
The last two articles are the longest yet. Fret not, we shall deliver!
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On March 08 2024 18:58 Mizenhauer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2024 14:17 catplanetcatplanet wrote:
I feel like Miz has the opportunity to do the funniest thing and never publish #2/#1. The suspense would keep tl.net alive for years to come The last two articles are the longest yet. Fret not, we shall deliver!
I hope #1 is a really sappy take by putting something like "The viewers" at the first place. Because without us, what would Starcraft be? Just a really daft, sappy, American sentimental take and then a 500 page thread civil war. After that, we close TL.net.
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On March 08 2024 21:59 Heartland wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2024 18:58 Mizenhauer wrote:On March 08 2024 14:17 catplanetcatplanet wrote:
I feel like Miz has the opportunity to do the funniest thing and never publish #2/#1. The suspense would keep tl.net alive for years to come The last two articles are the longest yet. Fret not, we shall deliver! I hope #1 is a really sappy take by putting something like "The viewers" at the first place. Because without us, what would Starcraft be? Just a really daft, sappy, American sentimental take and then a 500 page thread civil war. After that, we close TL.net.
This would actually be the most legendary incident in TL history. And it would be funnier if also made #2 only one of Maru/Serral.
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On March 09 2024 00:56 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2024 21:59 Heartland wrote:On March 08 2024 18:58 Mizenhauer wrote:On March 08 2024 14:17 catplanetcatplanet wrote:
I feel like Miz has the opportunity to do the funniest thing and never publish #2/#1. The suspense would keep tl.net alive for years to come The last two articles are the longest yet. Fret not, we shall deliver! I hope #1 is a really sappy take by putting something like "The viewers" at the first place. Because without us, what would Starcraft be? Just a really daft, sappy, American sentimental take and then a 500 page thread civil war. After that, we close TL.net. This would actually be the most legendary incident in TL history. And it would be funnier if also made #2 only one of Maru/Serral.
Yes, because obviously one/both of them would just never even place over Mvp in his prime. Mvp is the best player in the world, just disregard all of the counterarguments against that and argue that since he was good ten+ years ago we can imagine he'd be just as relatively good if all the reasons against that are invalidated.
: D
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On March 08 2024 21:59 Heartland wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2024 18:58 Mizenhauer wrote:On March 08 2024 14:17 catplanetcatplanet wrote:
I feel like Miz has the opportunity to do the funniest thing and never publish #2/#1. The suspense would keep tl.net alive for years to come The last two articles are the longest yet. Fret not, we shall deliver! I hope #1 is a really sappy take by putting something like "The viewers" at the first place. Because without us, what would Starcraft be? Just a really daft, sappy, American sentimental take and then a 500 page thread civil war. After that, we close TL.net.
If we take two more weeks to write then we could actually do this for April Fools, then release the real articles after :D
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Maybe Dark is 2 and Maru/Serral both 1? Just cant believe that Dark did not squeeze in to top10
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On March 12 2024 23:10 matju wrote:
Maybe Dark is 2 and Maru/Serral both 1? Just cant believe that Dark did not squeeze in to top10
No, there's no way Dark is above Rogue
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On March 12 2024 23:10 matju wrote:
Maybe Dark is 2 and Maru/Serral both 1? Just cant believe that Dark did not squeeze in to top10
Miz has implied on multiple occasions Dark is out. But he will make a lengthy blog explaining his reasonings after the list is finished, so there's that to look forward to.
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United States1961 Posts
On March 13 2024 00:36 Nasigil wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2024 23:10 matju wrote:
Maybe Dark is 2 and Maru/Serral both 1? Just cant believe that Dark did not squeeze in to top10 Miz has implied on multiple occasions Dark is out. But he will make a lengthy blog explaining his reasonings after the list is finished, so there's that to look forward to.
Thanks for telling me how long the blog will be. I'll have to add a bunch of filler to meet your requirements 
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EPT
