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On July 16 2023 01:44 [Phantom] wrote:
Honestly, good. the colossus might be boring, but if you're nerfing the disruptor you need to compensate somehow. I think it's a decent change.
Maybe I'd buff the immortal. Or give him an upgrade.
The Immortal and the collosus have two totally different roles on the battlefield as well as totally different counter units. If you INTENDED to buff the Collosus why would you buff the Immortal instead? That doesn't make any sense.
If they were buffing the Collosus to make up for the Disruptor nerfs from last patch that makes a lot more sense since the Collosus and the Disruptor have competing roles as anti ground splash damage and zoning. They have some different counter units (Vipers still counter them both for example) but not all of them.
They're also both on the same tier of tech, while the Immortal can be gotten earlier, which makes this buff if it's intended to be a buff a late game buff not an early game buff.
Personally, I actually think this Collosus buff is a good idea, and I fucking hate the Collosus as a unit. Two of the main Collosus counter units: Broodlords and Vikings got buffed recently, The Raven change was a MASSIVE buff for Terran against Collosus and the Hydralisk which the Collosus is meant to counter, also got buffed. The Collosus was in a bad place where it was being countered more easily, while being needed more often against the new suped up Hydralisks Zerg has been fielding. It makes sense to give them a small boost especially since Disruptors also got nerfed in the last patch.
I don't like the unit much, but it makes sense to me why it more than any other unit on the Protoss roster would be receiving attention. I'd personally rather just revert the Disruptor nerfs, but Blizzard NEVER reverts nerfs if they can avoid it, they'll do anything else other than admit they made a mistake with a change and then change it back, unless it's a Bunker change anyway.
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On July 16 2023 17:00 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2023 01:44 [Phantom] wrote:
Honestly, good. the colossus might be boring, but if you're nerfing the disruptor you need to compensate somehow. I think it's a decent change.
Maybe I'd buff the immortal. Or give him an upgrade.
The Immortal and the collosus have two totally different roles on the battlefield as well as totally different counter units. If you INTENDED to buff the Collosus why would you buff the Immortal instead? That doesn't make any sense. If they were buffing the Collosus to make up for the Disruptor nerfs from last patch that makes a lot more sense since the Collosus and the Disruptor have competing roles as anti ground splash damage and zoning. They have some different counter units (Vipers still counter them both for example) but not all of them. They're also both on the same tier of tech, while the Immortal can be gotten earlier, which makes this buff if it's intended to be a buff a late game buff not an early game buff. Personally, I actually think this Collosus buff is a good idea, and I fucking hate the Collosus as a unit. Two of the main Collosus counter units: Broodlords and Vikings got buffed recently, The Raven change was a MASSIVE buff for Terran against Collosus and the Hydralisk which the Collosus is meant to counter, also got buffed. The Collosus was in a bad place where it was being countered more easily, while being needed more often against the new suped up Hydralisks Zerg has been fielding. It makes sense to give them a small boost especially since Disruptors also got nerfed in the last patch. I don't like the unit much, but it makes sense to me why it more than any other unit on the Protoss roster would be receiving attention. I'd personally rather just revert the Disruptor nerfs, but Blizzard NEVER reverts nerfs if they can avoid it, they'll do anything else other than admit they made a mistake with a change and then change it back, unless it's a Bunker change anyway.
Honestly, I don't think the Disruptor nerf was the problem with the patch, they are still doing their job more than fine and Protoss is struggling much more in the early-mid game phase than in lategame where Disruptors come into play.
The combination of Raven buff and shield battery nerf was the much bigger issue with the last patch and better/cheaper immortals would help Toss overcome that
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On July 16 2023 10:13 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2023 04:44 Charoisaur wrote:On July 16 2023 02:46 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Imo, Protoss needs a small buff of some kind. . . . Would much prefer buffs to Immortals . . . Immortals definitely by far most boring unit in the game, would be cool to give them some kind of new ability to be honest. The "super shields" thing was kind of cool but it's not very spectator friendly.
They aren't the most exciting units but not every unit needs to be. And unlike collossus, immortals work without the entire army being built around them
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Any protoss buff needs to be one that only helps the likes of herO / Classic / MaxPax etc.
Buffing the range on a straight up a-move deathball unit of the race that is already ridiculously overpopulating the lower echelons of tournament play is asinine.
But who knows if it is even intended 
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On July 16 2023 12:51 QOGQOG wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2023 10:13 Pandain wrote:
Immortals definitely by far most boring unit in the game Roaches would like a word.
Agree with that, and Roaches are still less boring than Corruptors.
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Northern Ireland27354 Posts
On July 16 2023 20:54 Fanatic-Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2023 12:51 QOGQOG wrote:On July 16 2023 10:13 Pandain wrote:
Immortals definitely by far most boring unit in the game Roaches would like a word. Agree with that, and Roaches are still less boring than Corruptors.
Roach wars with hit squads and burrowed ambushes in general do give the Roach some interesting versatility
They’re not always sexy but stock units do make the foundation of a good RTS.
Personally I think it’s the relative fragility of the Protoss stock units and reliance on various tech options that makes them so tough to balance out in either direction.
At present at least in top level games, especially in PvT Toss seem to be having a hard time transitioning, getting that 3rd/4th up and running and their tech online, getting that sufficient AoE.
I dunno how you retool that without making them too strong lower down the chain mind. Perhaps a Collosus with more range so you can chip away at sieges from a defensive posture is one option that might help, but perhaps not and it creates other problems elsewhere.
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On July 16 2023 22:48 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2023 20:54 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On July 16 2023 12:51 QOGQOG wrote:On July 16 2023 10:13 Pandain wrote:
Immortals definitely by far most boring unit in the game Roaches would like a word. Agree with that, and Roaches are still less boring than Corruptors. Roach wars with hit squads and burrowed ambushes in general do give the Roach some interesting versatility They’re not always sexy but stock units do make the foundation of a good RTS. Personally I think it’s the relative fragility of the Protoss stock units and reliance on various tech options that makes them so tough to balance out in either direction. At present at least in top level games, especially in PvT Toss seem to be having a hard time transitioning, getting that 3rd/4th up and running and their tech online, getting that sufficient AoE. I dunno how you retool that without making them too strong lower down the chain mind. Perhaps a Collosus with more range so you can chip away at sieges from a defensive posture is one option that might help, but perhaps not and it creates other problems elsewhere.
You buff the Sentry imo, a stronger Guardian Shield (maybe a speed buff to units in it) and strengthening FF (making it require 2 biles) would go a long way to improving Protoss. Protoss seems to lack a way to really be out on the map doing any form of damage or control unless they open Stargate. Plus, buffing the Sentry is not going to make Protoss any more A-move friendly because you're only buffing 1 click and forget ability, FF requires alot of skill to use well.
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On July 16 2023 23:34 Beelzebub1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2023 22:48 WombaT wrote:On July 16 2023 20:54 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On July 16 2023 12:51 QOGQOG wrote:On July 16 2023 10:13 Pandain wrote:
Immortals definitely by far most boring unit in the game Roaches would like a word. Agree with that, and Roaches are still less boring than Corruptors. Roach wars with hit squads and burrowed ambushes in general do give the Roach some interesting versatility They’re not always sexy but stock units do make the foundation of a good RTS. Personally I think it’s the relative fragility of the Protoss stock units and reliance on various tech options that makes them so tough to balance out in either direction. At present at least in top level games, especially in PvT Toss seem to be having a hard time transitioning, getting that 3rd/4th up and running and their tech online, getting that sufficient AoE. I dunno how you retool that without making them too strong lower down the chain mind. Perhaps a Collosus with more range so you can chip away at sieges from a defensive posture is one option that might help, but perhaps not and it creates other problems elsewhere. You buff the Sentry imo, a stronger Guardian Shield (maybe a speed buff to units in it) and strengthening FF (making it require 2 biles) would go a long way to improving Protoss. Protoss seems to lack a way to really be out on the map doing any form of damage or control unless they open Stargate. Plus, buffing the Sentry is not going to make Protoss any more A-move friendly because you're only buffing 1 click and forget ability, FF requires alot of skill to use well.
Agreed here.
The double bile ff change is one I've wanted to see for a long time.
Buffing guardian shield runs a small risk of improving some gateway allins that are already strong enough IMO, but many of those don't want to invest much gas in a sentry so it's probably fine too.
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On July 17 2023 00:14 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2023 23:34 Beelzebub1 wrote:On July 16 2023 22:48 WombaT wrote:On July 16 2023 20:54 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On July 16 2023 12:51 QOGQOG wrote:On July 16 2023 10:13 Pandain wrote:
Immortals definitely by far most boring unit in the game Roaches would like a word. Agree with that, and Roaches are still less boring than Corruptors. Roach wars with hit squads and burrowed ambushes in general do give the Roach some interesting versatility They’re not always sexy but stock units do make the foundation of a good RTS. Personally I think it’s the relative fragility of the Protoss stock units and reliance on various tech options that makes them so tough to balance out in either direction. At present at least in top level games, especially in PvT Toss seem to be having a hard time transitioning, getting that 3rd/4th up and running and their tech online, getting that sufficient AoE. I dunno how you retool that without making them too strong lower down the chain mind. Perhaps a Collosus with more range so you can chip away at sieges from a defensive posture is one option that might help, but perhaps not and it creates other problems elsewhere. You buff the Sentry imo, a stronger Guardian Shield (maybe a speed buff to units in it) and strengthening FF (making it require 2 biles) would go a long way to improving Protoss. Protoss seems to lack a way to really be out on the map doing any form of damage or control unless they open Stargate. Plus, buffing the Sentry is not going to make Protoss any more A-move friendly because you're only buffing 1 click and forget ability, FF requires alot of skill to use well. Agreed here. The double bile ff change is one I've wanted to see for a long time. Buffing guardian shield runs a small risk of improving some gateway allins that are already strong enough IMO, but many of those don't want to invest much gas in a sentry so it's probably fine too.
They are? I rarely see Gateway allins working at the top level nowadays
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On July 16 2023 18:01 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2023 17:00 Vindicare605 wrote:On July 16 2023 01:44 [Phantom] wrote:
Honestly, good. the colossus might be boring, but if you're nerfing the disruptor you need to compensate somehow. I think it's a decent change.
Maybe I'd buff the immortal. Or give him an upgrade.
The Immortal and the collosus have two totally different roles on the battlefield as well as totally different counter units. If you INTENDED to buff the Collosus why would you buff the Immortal instead? That doesn't make any sense. If they were buffing the Collosus to make up for the Disruptor nerfs from last patch that makes a lot more sense since the Collosus and the Disruptor have competing roles as anti ground splash damage and zoning. They have some different counter units (Vipers still counter them both for example) but not all of them. They're also both on the same tier of tech, while the Immortal can be gotten earlier, which makes this buff if it's intended to be a buff a late game buff not an early game buff. Personally, I actually think this Collosus buff is a good idea, and I fucking hate the Collosus as a unit. Two of the main Collosus counter units: Broodlords and Vikings got buffed recently, The Raven change was a MASSIVE buff for Terran against Collosus and the Hydralisk which the Collosus is meant to counter, also got buffed. The Collosus was in a bad place where it was being countered more easily, while being needed more often against the new suped up Hydralisks Zerg has been fielding. It makes sense to give them a small boost especially since Disruptors also got nerfed in the last patch. I don't like the unit much, but it makes sense to me why it more than any other unit on the Protoss roster would be receiving attention. I'd personally rather just revert the Disruptor nerfs, but Blizzard NEVER reverts nerfs if they can avoid it, they'll do anything else other than admit they made a mistake with a change and then change it back, unless it's a Bunker change anyway. Honestly, I don't think the Disruptor nerf was the problem with the patch, they are still doing their job more than fine and Protoss is struggling much more in the early-mid game phase than in lategame where Disruptors come into play. The combination of Raven buff and shield battery nerf was the much bigger issue with the last patch and better/cheaper immortals would help Toss overcome that
I agree that the battery overcharge nerf is probably the main reason Protoss is struggling even worse than they were before, especially in conjunction with the buffs that Zerg and Terran got.
My primary question sticks though. If the buff to the Collosus is intended, what makes anyone think that buffing Immortals is what should be done instead? There's no logic to that as the units serve completely different roles on the battlefield. If you want to make an argument as to why Immortals need to be buffed that's a whole separate conversation, and honestly I think they are functioning just fine on the Protoss roster. Protoss has other issues, and I don't want Immortals to get to a place where they are a catch all for literally everything even more than they arguably already are.
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On July 16 2023 18:32 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:Any protoss buff needs to be one that only helps the likes of herO / Classic / MaxPax etc. Buffing the range on a straight up a-move deathball unit of the race that is already ridiculously overpopulating the lower echelons of tournament play is asinine. But who knows if it is even intended
Unfortunately there's not many ways to do that with the way Protoss is designed.
I completely agree with you, but what Protoss needs is a fundamental redesign to make it more rewarding to play at higher levels and harder to play at lower levels, and we're not going to get that with a balance patch.
So if all we have are tweaks on stats and abilities, we're stuck working with Protoss as its designed now, and its fundamental design is deeply flawed.
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On July 16 2023 00:56 Poopi wrote:
Oh so that’s what Rotti was talking about during goblin vs ByuN. Hopefully it’s just a bug and they revert it back, buffing an a-move unit / unit comp is a bad idea
Yes we really need to keep the incredibly dominant and overpowered Protoss race in check, otherwise, one of them might make the ro16 at a premier tournament real soon!!
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On July 17 2023 00:57 SharkStarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2023 00:56 Poopi wrote:
Oh so that’s what Rotti was talking about during goblin vs ByuN. Hopefully it’s just a bug and they revert it back, buffing an a-move unit / unit comp is a bad idea Yes we really need to keep the incredibly dominant and overpowered Protoss race in check, otherwise, one of them might make the ro16 at a premier tournament real soon!!
I significantly doubt this change is going to be very meaningful for Protoss winrates in tournaments. Collosus are only effective in timing attacks at the pro level. Vipers make them almost completely irrelevant in late game PvZ, and their immobility and high supply cost make them a liability on large maps against Terran multipronged harassment not to mention late game air units.
Incidentally this change WILL have a much more felt impact on the lower leagues because Collosus are much more powerful there. Therein lies the problem with Protoss design that is causing it to have such a miserable run at the higher levels.
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On July 17 2023 00:52 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2023 18:32 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:Any protoss buff needs to be one that only helps the likes of herO / Classic / MaxPax etc. Buffing the range on a straight up a-move deathball unit of the race that is already ridiculously overpopulating the lower echelons of tournament play is asinine. But who knows if it is even intended Unfortunately there's not many ways to do that with the way Protoss is designed. I completely agree with you, but what Protoss needs is a fundamental redesign to make it more rewarding to play at higher levels and harder to play at lower levels, and we're not going to get that with a balance patch. So if all we have are tweaks on stats and abilities, we're stuck working with Protoss as its designed now, and its fundamental design is deeply flawed.
"but what Protoss needs is a fundamental redesign"
Not only is that totally out of the question, but I also respectfully disagree. Targeted nerfs and buffs can have big ramifications in this game. While the openings are pretty stagnant with SG being the overwhelmingly more stable and safe way to play ZvP, the Queen Transfusion nerf really made the match up feel alot more balanced overall. And as bad as Adept openings are, top Protoss can still get usually some drone kills and/or secure a third. Hero and Dark have played like 10 + series over the last few months and he always seems to bop Dark with an aggressive Twilight opening, even if SG as said is way more stable.
On that note, it's an older game, eventually there is going to be an optimal opening and an optimal way to play a MU so I don't get too bent out of shape that the openings are kind of stale.
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On July 17 2023 01:02 Beelzebub1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2023 00:52 Vindicare605 wrote:On July 16 2023 18:32 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:Any protoss buff needs to be one that only helps the likes of herO / Classic / MaxPax etc. Buffing the range on a straight up a-move deathball unit of the race that is already ridiculously overpopulating the lower echelons of tournament play is asinine. But who knows if it is even intended Unfortunately there's not many ways to do that with the way Protoss is designed. I completely agree with you, but what Protoss needs is a fundamental redesign to make it more rewarding to play at higher levels and harder to play at lower levels, and we're not going to get that with a balance patch. So if all we have are tweaks on stats and abilities, we're stuck working with Protoss as its designed now, and its fundamental design is deeply flawed. "but what Protoss needs is a fundamental redesign" Not only is that totally out of the question, but I also respectfully disagree. Targeted nerfs and buffs can have big ramifications in this game. While the openings are pretty stagnant with SG being the overwhelmingly more stable and safe way to play ZvP, the Queen Transfusion nerf really made the match up feel alot more balanced overall. And as bad as Adept openings are, top Protoss can still get usually some drone kills and/or secure a third. Hero and Dark have played like 10 + series over the last few months and he always seems to bop Dark with an aggressive Twilight opening, even if SG as said is way more stable. On that note, it's an older game, eventually there is going to be an optimal opening and an optimal way to play a MU so I don't get too bent out of shape that the openings are kind of stale.
I'm sorry but if you think that all Protoss needs is a few more drone kills in the early game to fix PvZ then I disagree.
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On July 16 2023 06:50 bulldozer06701 wrote:
Is Protoss struggling on the ladder? Doesn't look like it at all
Should we balance the game based on gold league players stuck on roach at 20 min complaining about colossus and immortal being OP? Protoss has received a lot of unwarranted hate/nerfs over the years , got many nerfs when it was uncalled for because of pro gamers and fanbois crying.
How many years did we complain about Infestor/Viper/Broodlord era of Zerg and nothing was done about it, if that was Protoss woulda been shut down within a year.
Back when Colossus got nerfed it was totally uncalled for, viper and or corrupter is such a hard counter to colossus its not even funny, you must always have storm to backup any kind of Protoss composition or it all collapses.
This basically means you have to go down 2 expensive tech paths making you extremely vulnerable and predictable in a macro game.
Protoss does well on ladder because it has easy executable all inns and cheeses , it's like a chess player who learns some tricky early attacks but if it gets shut down he has the capability of a 300 rated player even although his rating is 1000.
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On July 17 2023 01:01 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2023 00:57 SharkStarcraft wrote:On July 16 2023 00:56 Poopi wrote:
Oh so that’s what Rotti was talking about during goblin vs ByuN. Hopefully it’s just a bug and they revert it back, buffing an a-move unit / unit comp is a bad idea Yes we really need to keep the incredibly dominant and overpowered Protoss race in check, otherwise, one of them might make the ro16 at a premier tournament real soon!! I significantly doubt this change is going to be very meaningful for Protoss winrates in tournaments. Collosus are only effective in timing attacks at the pro level. Vipers make them almost completely irrelevant in late game PvZ, and their immobility and high supply cost make them a liability on large maps against Terran multipronged harassment not to mention late game air units. Incidentally this change WILL have a much more felt impact on the lower leagues because Collosus are much more powerful there. Therein lies the problem with Protoss design that is causing it to have such a miserable run at the higher levels.
well if you doubt this changes anything we might as well make their range 15 right?! what kind of argument is that... of course buffs affect the game at pro level... they normally do small buffs and nerfs and they effect the metagame quite substantially... and a range buff of 1 is a pretty good buff i'd say... should help against terran a lot I believe as kiting bio will become more manageable, thus making the colossus a realistic, non-fringe alternative to the disruptor
also i'm sorry but the "uhhh protoss dominates the ladder!!" argument is so stupid. As if they'd balance the game around a few platinum scrubs with 60 APM. At the pro level, toss has struggled immensely for the longest time now, so buffs are overdue. My advice at those whining about lower level winrates would be twofold:
1. get
2. gud
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On July 17 2023 00:31 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2023 00:14 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:On July 16 2023 23:34 Beelzebub1 wrote:On July 16 2023 22:48 WombaT wrote:On July 16 2023 20:54 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On July 16 2023 12:51 QOGQOG wrote:On July 16 2023 10:13 Pandain wrote:
Immortals definitely by far most boring unit in the game Roaches would like a word. Agree with that, and Roaches are still less boring than Corruptors. Roach wars with hit squads and burrowed ambushes in general do give the Roach some interesting versatility They’re not always sexy but stock units do make the foundation of a good RTS. Personally I think it’s the relative fragility of the Protoss stock units and reliance on various tech options that makes them so tough to balance out in either direction. At present at least in top level games, especially in PvT Toss seem to be having a hard time transitioning, getting that 3rd/4th up and running and their tech online, getting that sufficient AoE. I dunno how you retool that without making them too strong lower down the chain mind. Perhaps a Collosus with more range so you can chip away at sieges from a defensive posture is one option that might help, but perhaps not and it creates other problems elsewhere. You buff the Sentry imo, a stronger Guardian Shield (maybe a speed buff to units in it) and strengthening FF (making it require 2 biles) would go a long way to improving Protoss. Protoss seems to lack a way to really be out on the map doing any form of damage or control unless they open Stargate. Plus, buffing the Sentry is not going to make Protoss any more A-move friendly because you're only buffing 1 click and forget ability, FF requires alot of skill to use well. Agreed here. The double bile ff change is one I've wanted to see for a long time. Buffing guardian shield runs a small risk of improving some gateway allins that are already strong enough IMO, but many of those don't want to invest much gas in a sentry so it's probably fine too. They are? I rarely see Gateway allins working at the top level nowadays
Most of the places Protoss is strong are not relevant at the very highest level currently X)
Go 40 spots down the player rankings to like EU / NA rank 15-20 level, and I think making gateway allins a bit stronger would cause problems (although as said, I don't think that's a real issue given the gas limitations).
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On July 16 2023 12:51 QOGQOG wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2023 10:13 Pandain wrote:
Immortals definitely by far most boring unit in the game Roaches would like a word.
Meh Roaches can burrow, burrow move and have a cool upgrade.
Immortal just moves and shoots.
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On July 17 2023 01:37 SharkStarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2023 01:01 Vindicare605 wrote:On July 17 2023 00:57 SharkStarcraft wrote:On July 16 2023 00:56 Poopi wrote:
Oh so that’s what Rotti was talking about during goblin vs ByuN. Hopefully it’s just a bug and they revert it back, buffing an a-move unit / unit comp is a bad idea Yes we really need to keep the incredibly dominant and overpowered Protoss race in check, otherwise, one of them might make the ro16 at a premier tournament real soon!! I significantly doubt this change is going to be very meaningful for Protoss winrates in tournaments. Collosus are only effective in timing attacks at the pro level. Vipers make them almost completely irrelevant in late game PvZ, and their immobility and high supply cost make them a liability on large maps against Terran multipronged harassment not to mention late game air units. Incidentally this change WILL have a much more felt impact on the lower leagues because Collosus are much more powerful there. Therein lies the problem with Protoss design that is causing it to have such a miserable run at the higher levels. well if you doubt this changes anything we might as well make their range 15 right?! what kind of argument is that... of course buffs affect the game at pro level... they normally do small buffs and nerfs and they effect the metagame quite substantially... and a range buff of 1 is a pretty good buff i'd say... should help against terran a lot I believe as kiting bio will become more manageable, thus making the colossus a realistic, non-fringe alternative to the disruptor also i'm sorry but the "uhhh protoss dominates the ladder!!" argument is so stupid. As if they'd balance the game around a few platinum scrubs with 60 APM. At the pro level, toss has struggled immensely for the longest time now, so buffs are overdue. My advice at those whining about lower level winrates would be twofold: 1. get 2. gud
No one is whining about Protoss dominating the ladder, people are simply stating that if you're making a change that does more for the ladder than it does for tournament matches that it probably isn't a good change because it isn't being targeted at areas where Protoss is struggling.
Giving the race a bunch of buffs that don't matter, are just going to make it so that when they actually DO get around to changes that target what should have been targeted in the first place, that the race is now overtuned because they got all of these other minor buffs that they didn't need earlier in the pipeline.
This is how Zerg ended up in such a stupid spot from 2018-2020.
As for making Collosus range 15, that's a retarded idea. I'm simply pointing out that targeting the Collosus with ANY buffs is probably not the best place for changing it since it's a bad unit at the pro level just in general. It's not going to make the race OP on its own but if they start doing things like buffing Gateway units, suddenly a 10 range Collosus backing up a stronger Gateway army is going to get really oppressive really quickly, when all that was needed in the first place was a buff to a different place in the roster.
You get it now?
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EPT
