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On June 09 2023 11:27 TossHeroes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2023 04:50 JJH777 wrote:On June 07 2023 23:41 BelethielQT wrote:On June 07 2023 23:09 JJH777 wrote:On June 07 2023 17:33 MrBrown wrote:On June 07 2023 06:28 JJH777 wrote:
How does Serral almost always get the easiest possible opponent in the first round? Seeding. Winners get easy opponents. He's not always the first seed. In IEMs 2022 and 2021, he was only the 3rd and 4th seed and most would agree he got the weakest group in both those years. In Serral's first ever win in an event with Koreans he got the weakest foreigner in the first round. But he won the Event with the koreans so the first round doesnt matter Every round of an event matters. Advancing over top players 5 times in a row is a lot more impressive than 3 times. If they’re the standard then that makes Maru’s first 4 GSL even less impressive than it already is. Maru r16 and r8 opponents are a joke compare to his peers
They were much harder opponents than any opponents Serral has had in the ro16 of almost any of his premier wins. Only exceptions would be his Blizzcon vs Zest/sos and TY in the second GSL vs the World he won. A quick list of Maru's ro16 opponents during the timeframe you're referencing is Zest, Bunny, Dear, Reynor, solar, Neeb, Classic, Gumiho. Those are all far harder opponents than the top 16 of a typical HSC, region locked WCS stops, or season finals.
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On June 09 2023 14:27 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2023 11:27 TossHeroes wrote:On June 08 2023 04:50 JJH777 wrote:On June 07 2023 23:41 BelethielQT wrote:On June 07 2023 23:09 JJH777 wrote:On June 07 2023 17:33 MrBrown wrote:On June 07 2023 06:28 JJH777 wrote:
How does Serral almost always get the easiest possible opponent in the first round? Seeding. Winners get easy opponents. He's not always the first seed. In IEMs 2022 and 2021, he was only the 3rd and 4th seed and most would agree he got the weakest group in both those years. In Serral's first ever win in an event with Koreans he got the weakest foreigner in the first round. But he won the Event with the koreans so the first round doesnt matter Every round of an event matters. Advancing over top players 5 times in a row is a lot more impressive than 3 times. If they’re the standard then that makes Maru’s first 4 GSL even less impressive than it already is. Maru r16 and r8 opponents are a joke compare to his peers They were much harder opponents than any opponents Serral has had in the ro16 of almost any of his premier wins. Only exceptions would be his Blizzcon vs Zest/sos and TY in the second GSL vs the World he won. A quick list of Maru's ro16 opponents during the timeframe you're referencing is Zest, Bunny, Dear, Reynor, solar, Neeb, Classic, Gumiho. Those are all far harder opponents than the top 16 of a typical HSC, region locked WCS stops, or season finals.
Zeit, bunny, reynor, dear, classic, solar etc. are one of the typical top 16 hsc
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France12912 Posts
On June 09 2023 11:27 TossHeroes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2023 04:50 JJH777 wrote:On June 07 2023 23:41 BelethielQT wrote:On June 07 2023 23:09 JJH777 wrote:On June 07 2023 17:33 MrBrown wrote:On June 07 2023 06:28 JJH777 wrote:
How does Serral almost always get the easiest possible opponent in the first round? Seeding. Winners get easy opponents. He's not always the first seed. In IEMs 2022 and 2021, he was only the 3rd and 4th seed and most would agree he got the weakest group in both those years. In Serral's first ever win in an event with Koreans he got the weakest foreigner in the first round. But he won the Event with the koreans so the first round doesnt matter Every round of an event matters. Advancing over top players 5 times in a row is a lot more impressive than 3 times. If they’re the standard then that makes Maru’s first 4 GSL even less impressive than it already is. Maru r16 and r8 opponents are a joke compare to his peers
"Less impressive than it already is", implying that his 4peat is not impressive?
It is by far the greatest achievement ever done in Starcraft 2, winning 2 GSL in a row is already a monstrous feat, winning 4 in a row is just unbelievable.
edit: winning 2 GSLs in a row in the reduced format of 2023 / with the current set of players is not as difficult as it was back then.
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On June 09 2023 16:47 BelethielQT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2023 14:27 JJH777 wrote:On June 09 2023 11:27 TossHeroes wrote:On June 08 2023 04:50 JJH777 wrote:On June 07 2023 23:41 BelethielQT wrote:On June 07 2023 23:09 JJH777 wrote:On June 07 2023 17:33 MrBrown wrote:On June 07 2023 06:28 JJH777 wrote:
How does Serral almost always get the easiest possible opponent in the first round? Seeding. Winners get easy opponents. He's not always the first seed. In IEMs 2022 and 2021, he was only the 3rd and 4th seed and most would agree he got the weakest group in both those years. In Serral's first ever win in an event with Koreans he got the weakest foreigner in the first round. But he won the Event with the koreans so the first round doesnt matter Every round of an event matters. Advancing over top players 5 times in a row is a lot more impressive than 3 times. If they’re the standard then that makes Maru’s first 4 GSL even less impressive than it already is. Maru r16 and r8 opponents are a joke compare to his peers They were much harder opponents than any opponents Serral has had in the ro16 of almost any of his premier wins. Only exceptions would be his Blizzcon vs Zest/sos and TY in the second GSL vs the World he won. A quick list of Maru's ro16 opponents during the timeframe you're referencing is Zest, Bunny, Dear, Reynor, solar, Neeb, Classic, Gumiho. Those are all far harder opponents than the top 16 of a typical HSC, region locked WCS stops, or season finals. Zeit, bunny, reynor, dear, classic, solar etc. are one of the typical top 16 hsc
Well, if you want to be typically correct, then Maru Serral Clem Dark are also top 16 HSC players. The question is are they also top 8/4 players, so lets check the players result in HSC during that time period (2018-19)
HSC 17: Solar 4th, Zest top 6, Bunny top 8.
HSC 18: Bunny 3rd, Zest 4th, Solar top 12, Reynor top 12
HSC 19: Zest 3rd, Solar top 8, Reynor top 12, Bunny top 16
Yeah, they I dont think they are *just* a typical top16 HSC bunch of guy.
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On June 09 2023 14:27 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2023 11:27 TossHeroes wrote:On June 08 2023 04:50 JJH777 wrote:On June 07 2023 23:41 BelethielQT wrote:On June 07 2023 23:09 JJH777 wrote:On June 07 2023 17:33 MrBrown wrote:On June 07 2023 06:28 JJH777 wrote:
How does Serral almost always get the easiest possible opponent in the first round? Seeding. Winners get easy opponents. He's not always the first seed. In IEMs 2022 and 2021, he was only the 3rd and 4th seed and most would agree he got the weakest group in both those years. In Serral's first ever win in an event with Koreans he got the weakest foreigner in the first round. But he won the Event with the koreans so the first round doesnt matter Every round of an event matters. Advancing over top players 5 times in a row is a lot more impressive than 3 times. If they’re the standard then that makes Maru’s first 4 GSL even less impressive than it already is. Maru r16 and r8 opponents are a joke compare to his peers They were much harder opponents than any opponents Serral has had in the ro16 of almost any of his premier wins. Only exceptions would be his Blizzcon vs Zest/sos and TY in the second GSL vs the World he won. A quick list of Maru's ro16 opponents during the timeframe you're referencing is Zest, Bunny, Dear, Reynor, solar, Neeb, Classic, Gumiho. Those are all far harder opponents than the top 16 of a typical HSC, region locked WCS stops, or season finals.
So we finally cracked the code? Serral isn't really great, he just has bracket luck?
You know, there is a saying in germany that kind of translates to "skill is, when luck becomes the standard".
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On June 09 2023 16:52 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2023 11:27 TossHeroes wrote:On June 08 2023 04:50 JJH777 wrote:On June 07 2023 23:41 BelethielQT wrote:On June 07 2023 23:09 JJH777 wrote:On June 07 2023 17:33 MrBrown wrote:On June 07 2023 06:28 JJH777 wrote:
How does Serral almost always get the easiest possible opponent in the first round? Seeding. Winners get easy opponents. He's not always the first seed. In IEMs 2022 and 2021, he was only the 3rd and 4th seed and most would agree he got the weakest group in both those years. In Serral's first ever win in an event with Koreans he got the weakest foreigner in the first round. But he won the Event with the koreans so the first round doesnt matter Every round of an event matters. Advancing over top players 5 times in a row is a lot more impressive than 3 times. If they’re the standard then that makes Maru’s first 4 GSL even less impressive than it already is. Maru r16 and r8 opponents are a joke compare to his peers "Less impressive than it already is", implying that his 4peat is not impressive? It is by far the greatest achievement ever done in Starcraft 2, winning 2 GSL in a row is already a monstrous feat, winning 4 in a row is just unbelievable. edit: winning 2 GSLs in a row in the reduced format of 2023 / with the current set of players is not as difficult as it was back then.
Winning 4GSL during Kesha will be impressive
Winning 4 GSL in a row in 2018 was as impressive as Serral winning 4 WCS in a row
Let’s not kid ourselves, Maru started to win after his Koreans competition started to age/decline/retire aka innovation, taeja, life etc.
But don’t let facts ruin your bias, carry on with your Korean love
Fun fact: Maru has never had a hard road to any of his championship
Serral, reynor, and TIME all had the hardest road to their world championships. Something Maru will never achieve since he can only dominate in Korea
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On June 10 2023 08:37 TossHeroes wrote:
Winning 4 GSL in a row in 2018 was as impressive as Serral winning 4 WCS in a row This is your best joke/trolling so far, and this is not an easy feat taking into account your usual claims.
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On June 10 2023 08:37 TossHeroes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2023 16:52 Poopi wrote:On June 09 2023 11:27 TossHeroes wrote:On June 08 2023 04:50 JJH777 wrote:On June 07 2023 23:41 BelethielQT wrote:On June 07 2023 23:09 JJH777 wrote:On June 07 2023 17:33 MrBrown wrote:On June 07 2023 06:28 JJH777 wrote:
How does Serral almost always get the easiest possible opponent in the first round? Seeding. Winners get easy opponents. He's not always the first seed. In IEMs 2022 and 2021, he was only the 3rd and 4th seed and most would agree he got the weakest group in both those years. In Serral's first ever win in an event with Koreans he got the weakest foreigner in the first round. But he won the Event with the koreans so the first round doesnt matter Every round of an event matters. Advancing over top players 5 times in a row is a lot more impressive than 3 times. If they’re the standard then that makes Maru’s first 4 GSL even less impressive than it already is. Maru r16 and r8 opponents are a joke compare to his peers "Less impressive than it already is", implying that his 4peat is not impressive? It is by far the greatest achievement ever done in Starcraft 2, winning 2 GSL in a row is already a monstrous feat, winning 4 in a row is just unbelievable. edit: winning 2 GSLs in a row in the reduced format of 2023 / with the current set of players is not as difficult as it was back then. Let’s not kid ourselves, Maru started to win after his Koreans competition started to age/decline/retire aka innovation, taeja, life etc.
In 2018 Inno, Rogue, Zest, Stats, Trap, soO, Dark, Classic, herO, sOs, TY, Cure, ByuN, Dear, Solar were all active which are basically all the Goat contenders except Life and Mvp.
But I don't actually think you were serious...
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On June 10 2023 18:44 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2023 08:37 TossHeroes wrote:On June 09 2023 16:52 Poopi wrote:On June 09 2023 11:27 TossHeroes wrote:On June 08 2023 04:50 JJH777 wrote:On June 07 2023 23:41 BelethielQT wrote:On June 07 2023 23:09 JJH777 wrote:On June 07 2023 17:33 MrBrown wrote:On June 07 2023 06:28 JJH777 wrote:
How does Serral almost always get the easiest possible opponent in the first round? Seeding. Winners get easy opponents. He's not always the first seed. In IEMs 2022 and 2021, he was only the 3rd and 4th seed and most would agree he got the weakest group in both those years. In Serral's first ever win in an event with Koreans he got the weakest foreigner in the first round. But he won the Event with the koreans so the first round doesnt matter Every round of an event matters. Advancing over top players 5 times in a row is a lot more impressive than 3 times. If they’re the standard then that makes Maru’s first 4 GSL even less impressive than it already is. Maru r16 and r8 opponents are a joke compare to his peers "Less impressive than it already is", implying that his 4peat is not impressive? It is by far the greatest achievement ever done in Starcraft 2, winning 2 GSL in a row is already a monstrous feat, winning 4 in a row is just unbelievable. edit: winning 2 GSLs in a row in the reduced format of 2023 / with the current set of players is not as difficult as it was back then. Let’s not kid ourselves, Maru started to win after his Koreans competition started to age/decline/retire aka innovation, taeja, life etc. In 2018 Inno, Rogue, Zest, Stats, Trap, soO, Dark, Classic, herO, sOs, TY, Cure, ByuN, Dear, Solar were all active which are basically all the Goat contenders except Life and Mvp. But I don't actually think you were serious...
Yes and no. How many champions/good players were eliminated early in rounds by the likes of Terminator, Effort, Myungsik, Reality, Bbyong, Hush, Hurricane, Fantasy, skyhigh, and goddamn Pigbaby just to cite a few. We lost a lot of good players, even in 2018 (and obviously more by now) that, yes they weren't champions at the time (who knows if they hadn't retired), but they had the level to upset them and made GSL so much harder to win.
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Still it was far, fas stronger at that point than WCS list of players, beside one exception in Serral.
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Does someone here plan to be at the event?
I've just learned it will take place 2-3 hours drive from where I live and I think about visiting it.
But I never did that before so I wonder how does it look like, can you watch any games, or?
What I need to be prepared for, etc.
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United States1923 Posts
On June 10 2023 18:44 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2023 08:37 TossHeroes wrote:On June 09 2023 16:52 Poopi wrote:On June 09 2023 11:27 TossHeroes wrote:On June 08 2023 04:50 JJH777 wrote:On June 07 2023 23:41 BelethielQT wrote:On June 07 2023 23:09 JJH777 wrote:On June 07 2023 17:33 MrBrown wrote:On June 07 2023 06:28 JJH777 wrote:
How does Serral almost always get the easiest possible opponent in the first round? Seeding. Winners get easy opponents. He's not always the first seed. In IEMs 2022 and 2021, he was only the 3rd and 4th seed and most would agree he got the weakest group in both those years. In Serral's first ever win in an event with Koreans he got the weakest foreigner in the first round. But he won the Event with the koreans so the first round doesnt matter Every round of an event matters. Advancing over top players 5 times in a row is a lot more impressive than 3 times. If they’re the standard then that makes Maru’s first 4 GSL even less impressive than it already is. Maru r16 and r8 opponents are a joke compare to his peers "Less impressive than it already is", implying that his 4peat is not impressive? It is by far the greatest achievement ever done in Starcraft 2, winning 2 GSL in a row is already a monstrous feat, winning 4 in a row is just unbelievable. edit: winning 2 GSLs in a row in the reduced format of 2023 / with the current set of players is not as difficult as it was back then. Let’s not kid ourselves, Maru started to win after his Koreans competition started to age/decline/retire aka innovation, taeja, life etc. In 2018 Inno, Rogue, Zest, Stats, Trap, soO, Dark, Classic, herO, sOs, TY, Cure, ByuN, Dear, Solar were all active which are basically all the Goat contenders except Life and Mvp. But I don't actually think you were serious...
I mean, yeah, Solar, ByuN and Dear have to be like Top 30-Top 40 all time.
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United States1923 Posts
On June 11 2023 08:04 Mizenhauer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2023 18:44 Charoisaur wrote:On June 10 2023 08:37 TossHeroes wrote:On June 09 2023 16:52 Poopi wrote:On June 09 2023 11:27 TossHeroes wrote:On June 08 2023 04:50 JJH777 wrote:On June 07 2023 23:41 BelethielQT wrote:On June 07 2023 23:09 JJH777 wrote:On June 07 2023 17:33 MrBrown wrote:On June 07 2023 06:28 JJH777 wrote:
How does Serral almost always get the easiest possible opponent in the first round? Seeding. Winners get easy opponents. He's not always the first seed. In IEMs 2022 and 2021, he was only the 3rd and 4th seed and most would agree he got the weakest group in both those years. In Serral's first ever win in an event with Koreans he got the weakest foreigner in the first round. But he won the Event with the koreans so the first round doesnt matter Every round of an event matters. Advancing over top players 5 times in a row is a lot more impressive than 3 times. If they’re the standard then that makes Maru’s first 4 GSL even less impressive than it already is. Maru r16 and r8 opponents are a joke compare to his peers "Less impressive than it already is", implying that his 4peat is not impressive? It is by far the greatest achievement ever done in Starcraft 2, winning 2 GSL in a row is already a monstrous feat, winning 4 in a row is just unbelievable. edit: winning 2 GSLs in a row in the reduced format of 2023 / with the current set of players is not as difficult as it was back then. Let’s not kid ourselves, Maru started to win after his Koreans competition started to age/decline/retire aka innovation, taeja, life etc. In 2018 Inno, Rogue, Zest, Stats, Trap, soO, Dark, Classic, herO, sOs, TY, Cure, ByuN, Dear, Solar were all active which are basically all the Goat contenders except Life and Mvp. But I don't actually think you were serious...
Cure actually probably closer to 20 than the other three i mentioned. (good use of double post)
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France12912 Posts
On June 11 2023 08:04 Mizenhauer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2023 18:44 Charoisaur wrote:On June 10 2023 08:37 TossHeroes wrote:On June 09 2023 16:52 Poopi wrote:On June 09 2023 11:27 TossHeroes wrote:On June 08 2023 04:50 JJH777 wrote:On June 07 2023 23:41 BelethielQT wrote:On June 07 2023 23:09 JJH777 wrote:On June 07 2023 17:33 MrBrown wrote:On June 07 2023 06:28 JJH777 wrote:
How does Serral almost always get the easiest possible opponent in the first round? Seeding. Winners get easy opponents. He's not always the first seed. In IEMs 2022 and 2021, he was only the 3rd and 4th seed and most would agree he got the weakest group in both those years. In Serral's first ever win in an event with Koreans he got the weakest foreigner in the first round. But he won the Event with the koreans so the first round doesnt matter Every round of an event matters. Advancing over top players 5 times in a row is a lot more impressive than 3 times. If they’re the standard then that makes Maru’s first 4 GSL even less impressive than it already is. Maru r16 and r8 opponents are a joke compare to his peers "Less impressive than it already is", implying that his 4peat is not impressive? It is by far the greatest achievement ever done in Starcraft 2, winning 2 GSL in a row is already a monstrous feat, winning 4 in a row is just unbelievable. edit: winning 2 GSLs in a row in the reduced format of 2023 / with the current set of players is not as difficult as it was back then. Let’s not kid ourselves, Maru started to win after his Koreans competition started to age/decline/retire aka innovation, taeja, life etc. In 2018 Inno, Rogue, Zest, Stats, Trap, soO, Dark, Classic, herO, sOs, TY, Cure, ByuN, Dear, Solar were all active which are basically all the Goat contenders except Life and Mvp. But I don't actually think you were serious... I mean, yeah, Solar, ByuN and Dear have to be like Top 30-Top 40 all time.
ByuN is easily in the top 15
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Why are you guys having this stupid discussion in this thread which has absolutely nothing to do with it
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On June 11 2023 07:41 ZeroByte13 wrote:
Does someone here plan to be at the event?
I've just learned it will take place 2-3 hours drive from where I live and I think about visiting it.
But I never did that before so I wonder how does it look like, can you watch any games, or?
What I need to be prepared for, etc.
You will absolutely be able to watch the main broadcast games from the viewing area. This photo is an example of how it usually looks.
Just don't forget to get the DH Summer festival pass.
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Thanks for the answer!
Btw will you be there in person, Alex? I'm one of the viewers on your channel. 
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On June 11 2023 20:08 ZeroByte13 wrote:Thanks for the answer! Btw will you be there in person, Alex? I'm one of the viewers on your channel.
Hopefully yes, this is the plan - so see you there!
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On June 11 2023 08:04 Mizenhauer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2023 18:44 Charoisaur wrote:On June 10 2023 08:37 TossHeroes wrote:On June 09 2023 16:52 Poopi wrote:On June 09 2023 11:27 TossHeroes wrote:On June 08 2023 04:50 JJH777 wrote:On June 07 2023 23:41 BelethielQT wrote:On June 07 2023 23:09 JJH777 wrote:On June 07 2023 17:33 MrBrown wrote:On June 07 2023 06:28 JJH777 wrote:
How does Serral almost always get the easiest possible opponent in the first round? Seeding. Winners get easy opponents. He's not always the first seed. In IEMs 2022 and 2021, he was only the 3rd and 4th seed and most would agree he got the weakest group in both those years. In Serral's first ever win in an event with Koreans he got the weakest foreigner in the first round. But he won the Event with the koreans so the first round doesnt matter Every round of an event matters. Advancing over top players 5 times in a row is a lot more impressive than 3 times. If they’re the standard then that makes Maru’s first 4 GSL even less impressive than it already is. Maru r16 and r8 opponents are a joke compare to his peers "Less impressive than it already is", implying that his 4peat is not impressive? It is by far the greatest achievement ever done in Starcraft 2, winning 2 GSL in a row is already a monstrous feat, winning 4 in a row is just unbelievable. edit: winning 2 GSLs in a row in the reduced format of 2023 / with the current set of players is not as difficult as it was back then. Let’s not kid ourselves, Maru started to win after his Koreans competition started to age/decline/retire aka innovation, taeja, life etc. In 2018 Inno, Rogue, Zest, Stats, Trap, soO, Dark, Classic, herO, sOs, TY, Cure, ByuN, Dear, Solar were all active which are basically all the Goat contenders except Life and Mvp. But I don't actually think you were serious... I mean, yeah, Solar, ByuN and Dear have to be like Top 30-Top 40 all time.
I guess I should have written 'that includes basically every Goat contender except Life and Mvp'
But the point was just that GSL in 2018 was still insanely competitive
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On June 11 2023 19:42 Schelim wrote:
Why are you guys having this stupid discussion in this thread which has absolutely nothing to do with it
Because in this thread, people are learning that the literal winner of the EU regionals gets a higher seeding at the main event than other players.
Anyway, looking forward to the tournament!
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EPT
