yes, of course. and if anyone disagrees you better hope they disagreed when kespa stopped supporting sc2, because the level of competition went down then too.

*note not to be confused with the skill of players going down. Skill of players has continued to rise. The competition just wasn't as fierce.

argonautdice

Canada2518 Posts

February 24 2023 12:50 GMT

I voted neutral. Kind of a loaded questions. It is what it is: the number of players and prize pool in particular has dropped dramatically, which will alter the motivation and competitiveness of the players, but the player pool may only shift at a similar rate as last year unless we see a massive wave of retirement without many returnees competing.

So in short yes GSL will likely be less competitive but still one of the most competitive premier tournaments of 2023.

CicadaSC

United States526 Posts

February 24 2023 12:55 GMT

for fun here is what chatgpt thinks.

Balnazza

235 Posts

February 24 2023 12:56 GMT

I'm not big on Broodwar, but out of curiosity: Do people consider the last few OSLs as "legitimate"?

-NegativeZero-

United States2131 Posts

February 24 2023 13:48 GMT

If anything it's the lower performing players who are more likely to retire.

CicadaSC

United States526 Posts

February 24 2023 14:46 GMT

One could entertain the argument that this is one of the *most* legitimate tournaments, as players will prep as much as they can knowing the stakes, and that it could be their last.

NeWHoriZonS

32 Posts

February 24 2023 15:15 GMT

To be fair, even the GSL in 2022 weren't very legitimate imo. Not as much as the previous ones at least.
It's basically the same top players winning again and again, they just stomp everyone until RO4 until they meet each other.
Creator and Ragnarok making it to the final wasn't entirely due to them increasing their skill level let's be honest, and it showed in the finals.
This year the same will happen : herO, Maru and Dark (until he retires himself, which should happen very soon) will just compete against each other and the other matches won't actually matter. It could get interesting if HM and Reynor participates as it's rumored, but that's about it.

JJH777

United States4052 Posts

February 24 2023 15:38 GMT

#10

On February 24 2023 23:46 CicadaSC wrote:
[image loading]

One could entertain the argument that this is one of the *most* legitimate tournaments, as players will prep as much as they can knowing the stakes, and that it could be their last.

Assuming those are comments from his stream a few hours ago then on that same stream Solar said something along the lines of "getting eliminated from GSL will not impact me much now because the prize is so low." Additionally Ryung "joked" about needing to get a part time job.

I don't think 2023 GSL can be considered anywhere near prior years now. The difference between this and prior skill drops like Kespa leaving is that players still had incentive to put in a high amount of effort because prizes were always just as high as ever. Many GSL players are going to have to work due to this news. Others will just lack motivation. This will decrease level of play dramatically especially for the players who typically qualify for GSL but don't make it to global events.

Poopi

France11840 Posts

February 24 2023 16:02 GMT

#11

On February 25 2023 00:15 NeWHoriZonS wrote:
To be fair, even the GSL in 2022 weren't very legitimate imo. Not as much as the previous ones at least.
It's basically the same top players winning again and again, they just stomp everyone until RO4 until they meet each other.
Creator and Ragnarok making it to the final wasn't entirely due to them increasing their skill level let's be honest, and it showed in the finals.
This year the same will happen : herO, Maru and Dark (until he retires himself, which should happen very soon) will just compete against each other and the other matches won't actually matter. It could get interesting if HM and Reynor participates as it's rumored, but that's about it.

Well it was still by far the highest level tournament outside of international ones though?
There were far more top players than in EU, which was the second highest local tournament.

Creator and RagnaroK also really improved: top 4 at IEM for RagnaroK and top 12 for Creator. If we compare that to the top DH players: Clem only made top 24, Serral top 8, Reynor top 8, Neeb top 16, Astrea top 24 and Scarlett top 36.

The_Red_Viper

19418 Posts

February 24 2023 16:18 GMT

#12

The level of competition has gone down for a long time, a starleague in 2022 wasn't the same as one in 2019 which wasn't the same as one in 2015, etc.
The more pros you lose in a scene (with basically noone new entering), the less competitive it is, obviously. (which isn't to say that the level of play was bad, two different things)

It remains to be seen what the current korean pros will do, though looking at the money in the scene i'd expect retirements, military services being done asap, some people switching to the bw scene where there is more money to be made, etc.
The korean sc2 scene just isn't attractive for anyone with that kind of money, speculating everything onto that championship at the very end of the season (which also won't have nearly the same amount of prize pool), yeah no way, the makeup of the korean playerbase will change once more drastically i imagine, and even for people who stay in it, this doesn't allow you to go allin either. 2023 gonna be a sad year.

M3t4PhYzX

Poland3358 Posts

February 24 2023 17:15 GMT

#13

As Premier? Not really.

As Major though? Yes, of course.

Charoisaur

Germany15100 Posts

February 24 2023 17:31 GMT

#14

On February 25 2023 01:02 Poopi wrote:

Show nested quote +

Well, in the foreign scene the situation is the same with Reynor, Serral, Clem winning everything and the rest of the playing field being even weaker than in GSL.
Only at international events the player field is at a respectable level with the top players of both regions competing but I'd still say an international tournament today is easier to win than a GSL in 2018 (which was easier to win than a GSL in 2015).

Argonauta

Spain4480 Posts

February 24 2023 17:51 GMT

#15

I just hope Maru and Co doesnt decide to go to the military, but I would understand them if they do. I mean, even if you win all 3 GSLs in the year you would not even make the minimun wage salary. Comentators and producers get better pay as it is.

BluemoonSC

SoCal8857 Posts

February 24 2023 20:47 GMT

#16

Neutral for me.

We'll see how many players retire or what the quality of the games look like after the first GSL. I think it'll be worth it for the better players to get into the EPT events, but only time will tell.

QOGQOG

699 Posts

February 24 2023 21:41 GMT

#17

It's still got more player depth than other regions (for now, I imagine there will be more retirements coming) and I'd still consider it the most prestigious tournament outside of season finals. But it's certainly not what it once was.

The problem is these changes take away what little incentive there was for lower tier players to try to compete.

Slydie

1676 Posts

February 24 2023 21:54 GMT

#18

Yes, it is legit if it keeps the name and most of the organization.

As many have said, this could have ended a long time ago, it is amazing how it kept running despite the Life scandal and mass team collapses.

IMSupervisor

Australia138 Posts

February 24 2023 23:52 GMT

#19

It depends how deep the participation of strong players is. If a lot of the Ro8 / Ro16 type players give it a pass in favour of focusing on participation at international events (or just straight up leaving the game) then I think GSL has lost its prestige, even if the quality of the games from the elite players is as high or higher than ever before.

[Phantom]

Mexico2061 Posts

February 25 2023 02:06 GMT

#20

I have the suspicioous that GSL season 2 and season 3 will look very different from s1. Many players will retire by then