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Code S RO24 concludes, RO16 groups confirmed - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
38 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6947 Posts
July 09 2020 11:31 GMT
#21
On July 09 2020 19:17 Shuffleblade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2020 16:00 Harris1st wrote:
On July 09 2020 07:39 ShowTheLights wrote:
Group D clearly Group of Death

HOWEVER

All these groups are freaking crazyyyy good

I feel bad Literally Zest and Rogue NEVER EVER get to pick during Group selection


Clearly might be overstating it. I feel group B is on about the same level of death as group D. Bunny is a dead man walking ^^

Well it all depends as usual on how you value the individual players in the group. I think group D is group of death based on these opinions:

Inno and Dark are equal strong to Stats and Rogue Cure is stronger than Bunny and Zest is stronger than PartinG. In the end it comes down to how you value Bunny vs Cure and Zest vs PartinG.

I think PartinG is overestimated since last season making both PartinG and Bunny in group D clear underdogs. I also think I value Cure slightly higher than many others so for me group D clearly group of death.

Edit: On the topic of groupselections I really want to give props to Dark for literally challenging everyone to pick him, inviting Maru and Innovation. Getting picked early in groupselections is a disadvantage plus the opponents he was asking to pick him were bloody Maru and Inno, crazy ballsy and really gives me the feeling that he thinks he can defeat everyone and that it doesn't matter which opponents he faces.


My opinion mostly based on Season 1 and some other stuff I've seen. Not really counting in weekly tournaments and the likes:

Inno > Cure cause they are about the same level of play but Inno has the Inno factor and more experience.
Dark > Rogue cause Dark is just better right now.
Parting = Zest cause Parting was better season 1 and has had insane clutch factor but I think Zest is better in general.
Bunny < Stats Don't think this needs much discussion
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
ThePhan2m
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
Norway2750 Posts
July 09 2020 11:56 GMT
#22
On July 09 2020 07:49 Z3nith wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2020 07:43 ThePhan2m wrote:
Indeed, D is group of death. Weakest one is Stats?! Crazy


Stats has been posting better results than Zest recently. Zest definitely seems like he's slumping.


Not really. Look at the past 6 months. Zest made top brackets in many tournaments where Stats got knocked out early.
He also made it futher overall in the last 3 GSLs. What are you basing your statement on?
dbRic1203
Profile Joined July 2019
Germany2655 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-07-09 12:24:47
July 09 2020 12:23 GMT
#23
On July 09 2020 20:56 ThePhan2m wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2020 07:49 Z3nith wrote:
On July 09 2020 07:43 ThePhan2m wrote:
Indeed, D is group of death. Weakest one is Stats?! Crazy


Stats has been posting better results than Zest recently. Zest definitely seems like he's slumping.


Not really. Look at the past 6 months. Zest made top brackets in many tournaments where Stats got knocked out early.
He also made it futher overall in the last 3 GSLs. What are you basing your statement on?

The last thing that comes to mind when thinking about Stats is his 2nd places at Blizzcon and GSLvsTW 2018..
E: he also was 2nd at Katowice 2019, forgot about that
MaxPax
sneakyfox
Profile Joined January 2017
8216 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-07-09 12:33:50
July 09 2020 12:33 GMT
#24
On July 09 2020 21:23 dbRic1203 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2020 20:56 ThePhan2m wrote:
On July 09 2020 07:49 Z3nith wrote:
On July 09 2020 07:43 ThePhan2m wrote:
Indeed, D is group of death. Weakest one is Stats?! Crazy


Stats has been posting better results than Zest recently. Zest definitely seems like he's slumping.


Not really. Look at the past 6 months. Zest made top brackets in many tournaments where Stats got knocked out early.
He also made it futher overall in the last 3 GSLs. What are you basing your statement on?

The last thing that comes to mind when thinking about Stats is his 2nd places at Blizzcon and GSLvsTW 2018..
E: he also was 2nd at Katowice 2019, forgot about that


And he won Assembly Summer 2019.
"I saw what sneakyfox wrote on TL.net and it made me furious" - PartinG
dbRic1203
Profile Joined July 2019
Germany2655 Posts
July 09 2020 13:14 GMT
#25
On July 09 2020 21:33 sneakyfox wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2020 21:23 dbRic1203 wrote:
On July 09 2020 20:56 ThePhan2m wrote:
On July 09 2020 07:49 Z3nith wrote:
On July 09 2020 07:43 ThePhan2m wrote:
Indeed, D is group of death. Weakest one is Stats?! Crazy


Stats has been posting better results than Zest recently. Zest definitely seems like he's slumping.


Not really. Look at the past 6 months. Zest made top brackets in many tournaments where Stats got knocked out early.
He also made it futher overall in the last 3 GSLs. What are you basing your statement on?

The last thing that comes to mind when thinking about Stats is his 2nd places at Blizzcon and GSLvsTW 2018..
E: he also was 2nd at Katowice 2019, forgot about that


And he won Assembly Summer 2019.

Well that s a quite smaller feat, if you d ask me, even though that was the only tournament where he actually beat Serral
MaxPax
SaetZero
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States855 Posts
July 09 2020 14:13 GMT
#26
Didnt see the selection. How in the hell did group A happen?
Never Forget. #TheRevolutionist
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10675 Posts
July 09 2020 14:20 GMT
#27
I'll have to say group of death is group D, although it is funny to see both non Koreans in the same group, let's go SpeCiaL !
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55553 Posts
July 09 2020 14:26 GMT
#28
On July 09 2020 20:56 ThePhan2m wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2020 07:49 Z3nith wrote:
On July 09 2020 07:43 ThePhan2m wrote:
Indeed, D is group of death. Weakest one is Stats?! Crazy


Stats has been posting better results than Zest recently. Zest definitely seems like he's slumping.


Not really. Look at the past 6 months. Zest made top brackets in many tournaments where Stats got knocked out early.
He also made it futher overall in the last 3 GSLs. What are you basing your statement on?

There's been a noticeable upward trend for Stats online results in the last 3-4 weeks actually (with an 80% winrate in PvP) while Zest has been a bit more up and down. Zest actually said in the group selection something to the extent of "I've been playing like shit recently so I'm surprised I wasn't picked in the first draft round".
On July 09 2020 23:13 SaetZero wrote:
Didnt see the selection. How in the hell did group A happen?

Does it really surprise you? The GSL champion can basically choose every player in their group. If TY wants Scarlett and Special he's always gonna get Scarlett and Special.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Howard_Kao
Profile Joined September 2018
China261 Posts
July 09 2020 18:42 GMT
#29
On July 09 2020 20:14 sneakyfox wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2020 19:52 swarminfestor wrote:
From the interview last night, they jokingly introduce Zest or Rogue award. What kind of instances they will use these awards for?


It said "Zest ceremony" and "Rogue ceremony". I'm also curious what this is about?

I think it's about how they celebrate after wining the tournament, clearly rogue's ceremony is a lot worse than zest's. Anyone have the link to their ceremonies?
"You don't need a gsl champion, you don't need a esl champion. I feel like I'm just a normal man. I just practice very hard this time, like 15hrs everyday" Oliveira 2023
johnnywup
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3858 Posts
July 09 2020 19:53 GMT
#30
this is prob the best ro16 ive seen, all the groups are SICK
Kitai
Profile Joined June 2012
United States873 Posts
July 10 2020 01:00 GMT
#31
On July 09 2020 20:31 Harris1st wrote:
Inno > Cure cause they are about the same level of play but Inno has the Inno factor and more experience.
Dark > Rogue cause Dark is just better right now.
Parting = Zest cause Parting was better season 1 and has had insane clutch factor but I think Zest is better in general.
Bunny < Stats Don't think this needs much discussion


I agree with all of these sentiments. As crazy as group D is, I think B edges it out. Gonna be a great season as always =)
"You know, I don't care if soO got 100 second places in a row. Anyone who doesn't think that he's going to win blizzcon watching this series is a fool" - Artosis, Blizzcon 2014 soO vs TaeJa
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6947 Posts
July 10 2020 08:19 GMT
#32
On July 10 2020 10:00 Kitai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2020 20:31 Harris1st wrote:
Inno > Cure cause they are about the same level of play but Inno has the Inno factor and more experience.
Dark > Rogue cause Dark is just better right now.
Parting = Zest cause Parting was better season 1 and has had insane clutch factor but I think Zest is better in general.
Bunny < Stats Don't think this needs much discussion


I agree with all of these sentiments. As crazy as group D is, I think B edges it out. Gonna be a great season as always =)


Well thank you good Sir
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-07-10 08:52:43
July 10 2020 08:36 GMT
#33
On July 09 2020 07:39 ShowTheLights wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Group D clearly Group of Death

HOWEVER


All these groups are freaking crazyyyy good

+ Show Spoiler +
I feel bad Literally Zest and Rogue NEVER EVER get to pick during Group selection

TY, Scarlett, Special, DRG. What's crazy good about this one? Can you be more specific, because the amount of Code S titles in that group is stunning

And the amount of WC titles!

Editorz:
Group A:
2 Code S title(TY, DRG)
1 WC title(TY)

Group B:
5 Code S titles(Inno 4, Dark 1)
1 Starleague title(Dark)
2 WC titles(Parting, Dark)
Yes, Parting has a 2012 WC title.

Group C:
4 Code S titles(Maru)
2 Starleagues titles(Maru, Solar)
1 OSL title(Maru)

Group D:
1 Starleague(Stats)
5-ish Code S titles(Stats, 3 Zest, 1 Rogue)
4 WC titles(Zest, 3 Rogue)

I may have missed some titles or some IEMs which were WC but were not held in such. I gave Zest 1 more GSL Title for the season finals in Korea, feel free to remove it.

I am bad at math if the math includes numbers, so the sums may vary, also i am officially at work
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
Z3nith
Profile Joined October 2017
485 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-07-10 10:28:33
July 10 2020 09:26 GMT
#34
On July 09 2020 20:56 ThePhan2m wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2020 07:49 Z3nith wrote:
On July 09 2020 07:43 ThePhan2m wrote:
Indeed, D is group of death. Weakest one is Stats?! Crazy


Stats has been posting better results than Zest recently. Zest definitely seems like he's slumping.


Not really. Look at the past 6 months. Zest made top brackets in many tournaments where Stats got knocked out early.
He also made it futher overall in the last 3 GSLs. What are you basing your statement on?


Since the new patch Stats has got an 80% winrate in PvP, a 70% winrate in PvT and a 63% winrate in PvZ with all of Zest's matchups being 65% or below. When you filter out foreign players that number gets even worse with Zest only having a winrate of 60% or above in PvT (his other two are mid 50%). For the record Stats' PvZ stays roughly the same while his PvT goes up to 75% and his PvP goes down to 75%.

In the past six months Zest has taken a top four and top 2 finish in one premier tournament each. While I concede that is more than Stats that's not the many which you are claiming he has achieved.

While I think the idea of taking the last 3 GSLs as an example of form is a joke considering the changes in meta and one of those being about a year ago I'll indulge this too. Stats had three ro. 16 exits in the last 3 GSLs while Zest had one ro. 32 exit, one ro. 8 exit and one ro. 16 exit in that order. I'd hardly say that's a huge disparity between the two.

The point of form is to show how a player is doing currently and in the newest patch we can see that Stats is posting substantially better winrates than Zest in every single matchup. Despite playing something like 12 games in July Stats has yet to lose a game posting a 27-6 map score against players such as Rogue, Solar, Zest and Dream. Considering this I am certain in my assertion that Stats is the form player over Zest.

Thank you for coming to my Ted talk. 😂

ggByron
Profile Joined December 2017
24 Posts
July 10 2020 10:35 GMT
#35
I think it's about how they celebrate after wining the tournament, clearly rogue's ceremony is a lot worse than zest's. Anyone have the link to their ceremonies?

I think, in this context, 'ceremony' might refer to the way Zest and Rogue lift trophies: Zest doing it in true chad fashion — effortlessly and swiftly, despite using only one arm — and Rogue struggling to lift it even with both arms, looking somewhat feeble in doing so. I might be wrong though.
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19262 Posts
July 10 2020 16:02 GMT
#36
Group B = Group of Death
2 Top tier players
1 Wild Card player
1 Rising Star based on previous group stage
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
ThePhan2m
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
Norway2750 Posts
July 10 2020 16:03 GMT
#37
On July 10 2020 18:26 Z3nith wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2020 20:56 ThePhan2m wrote:
On July 09 2020 07:49 Z3nith wrote:
On July 09 2020 07:43 ThePhan2m wrote:
Indeed, D is group of death. Weakest one is Stats?! Crazy


Stats has been posting better results than Zest recently. Zest definitely seems like he's slumping.


Not really. Look at the past 6 months. Zest made top brackets in many tournaments where Stats got knocked out early.
He also made it futher overall in the last 3 GSLs. What are you basing your statement on?


Since the new patch Stats has got an 80% winrate in PvP, a 70% winrate in PvT and a 63% winrate in PvZ with all of Zest's matchups being 65% or below. When you filter out foreign players that number gets even worse with Zest only having a winrate of 60% or above in PvT (his other two are mid 50%). For the record Stats' PvZ stays roughly the same while his PvT goes up to 75% and his PvP goes down to 75%.

In the past six months Zest has taken a top four and top 2 finish in one premier tournament each. While I concede that is more than Stats that's not the many which you are claiming he has achieved.

While I think the idea of taking the last 3 GSLs as an example of form is a joke considering the changes in meta and one of those being about a year ago I'll indulge this too. Stats had three ro. 16 exits in the last 3 GSLs while Zest had one ro. 32 exit, one ro. 8 exit and one ro. 16 exit in that order. I'd hardly say that's a huge disparity between the two.

The point of form is to show how a player is doing currently and in the newest patch we can see that Stats is posting substantially better winrates than Zest in every single matchup. Despite playing something like 12 games in July Stats has yet to lose a game posting a 27-6 map score against players such as Rogue, Solar, Zest and Dream. Considering this I am certain in my assertion that Stats is the form player over Zest.

Thank you for coming to my Ted talk. 😂



Good talk, good points. We will see who advances in the end
Howard_Kao
Profile Joined September 2018
China261 Posts
July 10 2020 21:57 GMT
#38
On July 10 2020 17:36 deacon.frost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2020 07:39 ShowTheLights wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Group D clearly Group of Death

HOWEVER


All these groups are freaking crazyyyy good

+ Show Spoiler +
I feel bad Literally Zest and Rogue NEVER EVER get to pick during Group selection

TY, Scarlett, Special, DRG. What's crazy good about this one? Can you be more specific, because the amount of Code S titles in that group is stunning

And the amount of WC titles!

Editorz:
Group A:
2 Code S title(TY, DRG)
1 WC title(TY)

Group B:
5 Code S titles(Inno 4, Dark 1)
1 Starleague title(Dark)
2 WC titles(Parting, Dark)
Yes, Parting has a 2012 WC title.

Group C:
4 Code S titles(Maru)
2 Starleagues titles(Maru, Solar)
1 OSL title(Maru)

Group D:
1 Starleague(Stats)
5-ish Code S titles(Stats, 3 Zest, 1 Rogue)
4 WC titles(Zest, 3 Rogue)

I may have missed some titles or some IEMs which were WC but were not held in such. I gave Zest 1 more GSL Title for the season finals in Korea, feel free to remove it.

I am bad at math if the math includes numbers, so the sums may vary, also i am officially at work

Scarlett has an iem pyeongchang title
"You don't need a gsl champion, you don't need a esl champion. I feel like I'm just a normal man. I just practice very hard this time, like 15hrs everyday" Oliveira 2023
aringadingding
Profile Joined September 2010
477 Posts
July 11 2020 19:36 GMT
#39
I wonder if any toss will survive this group stage... i hope at least two might go forward, so that toss players doesnt feel like its utterly useless to focus fully on this game. It would be sad to see them forced to focus to become streamers than 100 % pros.
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